NW Folklife threatens street performers (Seattle)

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers (Seattle)
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 15 May 10 - 09:17 AM

i used to perform at seattle folk life for a decade or so. i also busked or i couldn't have afforded to take a weekend off from gigs or busking at home to play a coule of free sets.

then they started to hassle the buskers for selling tapes (few had cds yet). so i complied and sold my tapes through tower records and they and folklife got their cut. i sold twenty some tapes that year through tower records. however they never paid me. i bugged them and folklife again and again and they couldn't have cared less. they were already trying to over regulate the buskers . i gave up and stopped performing and just went to busk, and sold my tapes and later cds underground. why should i donate my free performances to those bureaucratic headed assholes who won't let ne earn a living. that attitude of hey theres grass growing in that crack, if i can own that crack i can charge rent is so anti art and so fascist they should be ashamed.

yah therte are too many buskers there and they can be too compititive but i usueally shared spots with a couple ofothers and got on fine. the ones i'd kick out are the hare khrishna paraders.

the folk pimps often burry themselves in "the work" and think they are the show after a while, they forget the musicians are the show, and then the quality musicians stop donating and you get the weekend bash they have now.it the same with busker festivals and regular licenced busking spots. it is the nature of busking that you have to move on occasionally. how are they going to miss you if you don't go away.

by the way a lot of full time buskers i know do report income to the tax man to get credit for old age pension.

trying to muzzle what people sing on the street is shamefull and folk life has now out lived its purpose. be honest and become the seattle memorial day gala and forget the folk connection.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:48 AM

It's the "degree" of their control that is at the heart of this issue. If they want to use their control to haul an idiot off the grounds, via the police, who stupidly pistol whips someone with his hand gun, that has the safety turned off and as a result, it discharges a couple of rounds into a couple of near bystanders, well I say go for it. Who, in their right mind, wants that at a music event?

However, my guitar is not a gun. Nor is my musical saw a weapon. But somehow, the NW Folklife security force saw fit to equate my efforts at entertaining in public with a guy who discharged a firearm in public and determined that my efforts at creating smiles were apparently as dangerous as a loaded handgun. Thus, they did to me just what they did to him. They called for police backup. Though, I think that the guy with the gun got cuffed and carried off the grounds. While I was merely escorted from the grounds.

Besides, my rights under the law were in effect long before NW Folklife decided to create this latest attempt at "control" and this event has managed to function and flourish just fine for years, long before their recent efforts at trying to control the actions of performers on the grounds. The only control that I see that needs to be enacted by the event is control of their actions and control of their security force.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 14 May 10 - 07:24 PM

I'm not suggesting that street performers are in themselves a problem. But gatherings of large numbers of people can be a problem. There are evidently issues with loud performances interfering with other acts. There may be issues of obstruction. There may be disputes between performers both claiming the same pitch. If NWF cannot control these (and apparently they have no legal basis to do so) then how can they run the festival? It sounds like a recipe for mayhem to me.

I hear what you are saying. The point I would make, is that there is only one item on your list may apply exclusively to musical activities. And these loud performances interfering with others is is hardly a public safety concern. And although this problem is mentioned, it was not one specific to Reggie's experience.

It would appear that the attraction of this event is or was an attempt at some kind of celebration of the public's freedom of expression. It should perhaps be seen in this light and this brave attempt given some credit, rather than encouraging the event to continue but at the expense of this freedom.

The price paid for that freedom and the success of the event may be a little chaotic but it does not appear to have yet reached the public safety risk level of a war zone. If the attending public do not address their differences with common sense, the event will come to an end and that will be sad. But are we all really so scared of the reality of the freedom we claim to value so much or do we go to war in the name of freedom only to deprive others of theirs?   

As you rightly say, all large gatherings present problems and these require sensible regulation but I refuse to see music making in itself as anything other than beneficial in the first instance.

Please do not give any encouragement to those who can only see music making as presenting problems. They need no encouragement and we will always have to struggle with them anyway but let us not have to struggle with ourselves, when we do firstly see the benefits of music making.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Deckman
Date: 14 May 10 - 04:44 PM

You might be somewhat amused to learn that for some years now, the Northwest Folklife Festival has a different name locally! We refer it it as the "Northwest Forklift Festival." This well earned name refers to the tons and tons of equipment, trailors, vehicles, staff, support services (including police), required to present this "so called" FOLK FESTIVAL."

I wonder what Bascom Lunsford would say today if he could this mess?

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 May 10 - 04:24 PM

Shambles, that's not what I'm saying at all. My point is that there's an apparently irreconcilable difference between the needs of NWF to run their festival with a degree of control on the one hand, and the rights of Reggie and other street performers to perform in the Seattle Center on the other.

I'm not suggesting that street performers are in themselves a problem. But gatherings of large numbers of people can be a problem. There are evidently issues with loud performances interfering with other acts. There may be issues of obstruction. There may be disputes between performers both claiming the same pitch. If NWF cannot control these (and apparently they have no legal basis to do so) then how can they run the festival? It sounds like a recipe for mayhem to me.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 14 May 10 - 03:45 PM

The difficulty arises because it appears anyone also has a legal right to disregard all this and perform anyway. How do you suggest these conflicting positions should be resolved?

I am amazed that anyone reading this thread - especially after Reggie's last post - can insist on seeing the issue as described by the above. It must be pretty obvious from Reggie's experience that the problem is not those insisting on exercising their legal right and performing anyway. For it does not appear that such a right is even recognised.

Why are those of us who recognise the value of music, so seemingly determined not only to wear a 'hair-shirt' themselves but insist that everyone else does? If like me and not having any first-hand knowledge of the event why you have to presuume and imagine so much, rather than simply accept Reggie's considered view?

Is Reggie not to be trusted because he is a dangerous type, a musical performer, not a juggler, hot-dog man or a seller of colourful velvet hats?

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:44 AM

My knowledge of this event is only what I have seen on their website and in this thread. However the vendors appear to be confined to specific areas, and presumably book a pitch in the appropriate sector. This seems rather different from the street performers who I imagine just turn up and play wherever they can find a spot. I imagine NWF nevertheless has people in place to manage the vending areas and to make sure people keep to their booked pitch.

As for the 15% charge, they have made it clear that it is voluntary, a recognition of the work they have done to draw a crowd to whom you can perform and from whom you can take tips. If you don't want to pay it, then they can't force you.

My point (and perhaps yours too) is that there is a fundamental conflict between them running an event of this nature, which inevitably requires that they seek to exercise an element of control, and your right to perform in a public place.

To a neutral observer, it seems quite reasonable for the festival to ask those who wish to participate and to take advantage of the crowds it attracts both to make a financial contribution and to observe their rules, to ensure the smooth and safe running of the event. The difficulty arises because it appears anyone also has a legal right to disregard all this and perform anyway. How do you suggest these conflicting positions should be resolved?

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:07 AM

Howard, NW Folklife isn't claiming the right determine "when" performers can play on the grounds. Thank goodness for that! That would be yet another law suit!

They are claiming that they have the right to dictate "where" performers can play on the grounds. This issue is where the forked tongue of those who would, as you put it, "claim the right" to determine such, really shows off their double standard.

As I described in my previous post, vendors are not harassed by the NW Folklife's private security for creating access or safety issues, not ever. Nor are they intimidated, demonized, threatened, or evicted from the grounds using police force for creating these issues, and they constantly create these conditions via their activities during this event. However, let a performer of folk music do what it is that they do at this event, set up underneath or even near a covered walkway and they are pounced upon by that same private security force, verbally threatened, harassed, intimidated, and ultimately the police are called to have them escorted from the grounds. This is, quite simply, a case of the haves vs. the havenots. We have the right to be there and they are claiming that we have not.

Why do they favor the vendors at this event and ignore their transgressions of access and safety? Because the vendors pay $Do$ $Re$ $Mi$. Because we don't have to pay to play in public, NW Folklife has determined that the best way to sidestep those First Amendment rights, so they can harass us with impunity, is to demonize our activities as the issue to be controlled. In the art of prestidigitation, this is called distraction. NW Folklife sees our activities, playing music acoustically in this public park, as being a bother to all of the business that they are profiting by via this event. That's why they want to control our activities.

It is that double standard, between those who pay to vend on public property and those merely exercising their First Amendment right to freedom of expression by playing folk music in the park, for the enjoyment of all, on this national holiday, Memorial Day weekend, when we honor those who have fought and died to protect this way of life, that is the very core of the issue.

They have no right, within the law, to deny First Amendment rights to anyone. They are acting illegally by denying me or anyone else of their constitutional rights under the law.

The law suit brought against the city of Seattle and those running the Seattle Center last June was specific in stating that neither the city nor the private company hired by the city to run the Seattle Center has the right to ask anyone to obtain a permit, much less charge anyone for a permit to exercise the right to freedom of expression in a public space.

I would say that the event organizers have shot themselves in the foot with regard to how loud acoustic acts have interfered with amplified staged presentations. They have, for years, done nothing to curb or otherwise address the issue of the loudest acts on the grounds, drummers and others. Addressing that single concern would have helped the interference of those acts with staged presentations. That's their problem.

One year, while I was on stage playing, a whole troop of Morris dancers and their various instrumentation decided to start performing nearby. The stage had amplification but even that was not adequate against the number of performers in that troop. I'm a solo act. I muscled through my performance but I did mention it from stage. I don't think that anything was done to dissuade them.

Safety and access reasons have NOTHING to do with the reasons why NW Folklife wants 15% of what might end up in a street performers hat. Neither do safety or access concerns have anything, whatsoever, to do with NW Folklife deciding to charge a fee to street performers. They have no right under the law to do this.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 May 10 - 05:49 AM

NWF is claiming the right to determine when and where street performers can operate - partly for safety and access reasons, partly simply to ensure the smooth running of a busy event and to prevent artists from interfering with others' performances. Reggie is arguing that they cannot legally do this because it interferes with his constitutional rights.

The two seem to be incompatible in a public place. Either everyone agrees to submit to a level of control in the wider interest, or you have an event where anyone can do what they like, where they like, when they like and just hope that it all works out.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 14 May 10 - 05:29 AM

Unfortunately, if you want an organization to ignore safety concerns, you'll have to promise them that no one will sue them if something happens.

I'm not sure if anyone here has seriously suggested that this or any other organisation should (or could) ignore safety concerns?

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: mousethief
Date: 14 May 10 - 02:15 AM

He sings pretty good for being 100.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 14 May 10 - 01:38 AM

artbrooks, 100? What did you win?

Give that man a Cigar!

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 May 10 - 07:31 PM

100

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: John P
Date: 13 May 10 - 05:42 PM

Unfortunately, if you want an organization to ignore safety concerns, you'll have to promise them that no one will sue them if something happens. I agree that people ought to be responsible for themselves, but an organization like Folklife can't afford to have that be their plan.

The unpleasant fact is that if there were a deadly situation and people were unable to leave the area or medical people couldn't get to an area because of the crowds, Folklife would get sued for millions of dollars.

I also don't think the buskers are the cause of crowds at Folklife, and I have no problem walking through their act if their audience is blocking the walk.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 13 May 10 - 02:40 AM

For is it seriously being suggested that is impossible to ensure an adequate level of safety for these people (and others) and that the only answer is to deprive them of such visits? I hope not.

I have just thought of an example where the balance between benefits and risks would be different.

Casual visits to the front-line in a war situation would involve more real risk than could be balanced by any benefit that might be gained and it would be sensible for such visits not to take place.

I have not visited this event and even the worst accounts that I have read here do not lead me to think that it is (yet) a senario comparable to a war zone.

A view which places every potential risk of a musical gathering before its benefits, is not a balanced view and it is one that will not result in the sensible regulation required but will result in the type of over-regulation that we all suffer from.

Subject: Lyr Add: SOMETIMES THAT BEAR BITES YOU (R Miles)
From: reggie miles
Date: 13 May 10 - 02:28 AM

mg, I'm sorry if I missed something here. Are you saying that folks having their children in strollers are in danger of having those children bitten by unruly dogs at such events simply because they ride at the same general level of the dogs in question? This is not a public safety issue. It is up to the parents of said children to be aware of the circumstance into which they are bringing their children, a public park, on a national holiday, during a large music event, where, yes, others may also be bringing their animals.

I've never witnessed this kind of an incident taking place at this event or at any other and I've visited and performed at countless such events in my 30+ years of playing music in crowded public spaces. That's not saying it might not have happened or that it won't happen in the next few minutes, tonight, tomorrow or next week sometime. I'm just saying that we can sit around our keyboards a dream up all kinds of "what ifs" until were blue in the face. Then, we can sit around in various town, city, state gatherings dreaming up all manner of safety codes and regulations for all of the fears that we've invented and none of them will ever make certain that our interactions in such places are, in fact, 100% safe.

As a matter of fact, the regulations won't guarantee anything of the kind. They may quell some fears in the hearts and minds of those who craft such micromanaging techniques. In their minds they are doing all they can for public safety. The real issue is, are they doing all they can to "truly" help. More often than not those folks will go right on micromanaging everyone's activities until you can't scratch your nose in public without being accused of a felony.

Let's take a real and present tangible example to illustrate just how inane the regulations that NW Folklife have enacted are. The same regulation that I was accused of breaking, sitting under a covered walkway offering my art, did not seem to apply, in the least, to any vendor on the grounds. Now, how is it that a single performer with an acoustic guitar can be guilty and ousted from the event using police force but the same infraction somehow magically doesn't apply at all to those vendors who were doing just exactly what I was? Except, in their case, they ALWAYS cause huge traffic issues all weekend long. The difference between me and them was only that they were forking over copious amounts of cash to the event organizers, paying them off, to break the regulations and have security look the other way.

The Court has made plain that I don't have to pay anyone, anything, to exercise my First Amendment rights on public property. NW Folklife wants to pretend that they have the right to ignore the Court's ruling on this matter. They want to micromanage performers in order to placate the vendors who are paying copious amounts of cash to vend at this event. They don't want vendors getting upset by performers that might block traffic, that might otherwise pass by a vendor's wares. What you have here is a private security force not acting in the best interest of public safety but rather in the best interest of those who have paid copious amounts of cash to the event organizers. That, simply put, is an issue of big money unlawfully trying to dictate the rule of law. (The Haves vs The Havenots)

Look at what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico if you want a fine example of how big money dictating the rule of law works. Instead of safety minded regulations being put in place for the good of all, big money was able to side step the process of safety by, no doubt, paying off, with copious amounts of cash, the right political parties or agencies involved with such regulatory actions. Now, look at the mess they've caused. This is exactly what is going on at NW Folklife. Those with money are getting away with creating safety issues while those without are demonized, and criminalized even when they are not causing any such issues. Open your eyes America!

Who would have thought that the idiot, that did, would have pulled out his loaded hand gun, safety off, to pistol whip someone at Folklife two years ago? He even had a permit to carry it. The fact, that he had a permit, probably made a whole lot of folks happy and safe feeling but that didn't stop him from acting as irresponsibly as possible. There will always be those who cannot find it within themselves to behave and hence, why such micromanaging is pointless.

Lightning could strike any one of us dead in the next few moments. We might drown in our own bathtubs after hitting our heads because we slipped on the wet surface of the tub. I could get a paper cut from loading paper into my printer. Any number of accidents could, can and do happen. We can't possibly regulate to address them all. Nor can we even reasonably address which ones we should prioritize higher than others.

I am always amazed to hear each year how many tornadoes follow very specific paths throughout the Midwest and yet folks still seem oblivious to that fact and settle in areas that have been devastated time and time again. It's the same with those who live in hurricane areas along the Gulf Coast and flood plains all across the country. No amount of loss of life or damage seems to convince people that those areas are bad places to live. I think that these horrific natural disasters rank a bit higher on my list than the concerns you've mentioned and yet nothing has been done to regulate folks from living in many of those areas of the country that continue to be plagued by such ruin.

Reasonable regulations are one thing but even these, when enforced by unreasonable, power hungry individuals, who act without just cause to excess and to the detriment of liberty, become pointless exercises in man's inhumanity toward man. In this country we've crafted checks and balances into our system for the creation of such legislation and its enforcement and yet even with this system, meant to create order, peace and liberty, we are plagued from within and without our carefully crafted system, by those who would pervert it and subvert it to their own ends, case in point, NW Folklife's blatant disregard for our First Amendment right to freedom of expression. It is a protected right and not a privilege that we should have to pay them to enjoy!

I agree with The Shambles. Life is dangerous. We're all gonna shuffle off this mortal coil sooner or later. How are you going to spend your life? Will you spend it statistically determining the least dangerous path, always fearing the worst? (Cup half empty) Or, will you bravely risk the course and challenges that each new day brings. (Cup half full) Stuff happens and it ain't all good stuff either.

Sometimes That Bear Bites You by Reggie Miles 2008

Sometimes you get to bite that bear,
Sometimes that bear bites you.
You can never be sure of weather.
It may be cloudy but it could turn blue.
And nobody knows which way the wind blows,
But it blows just the same and it's true,
That sometimes you get to bite that bear,
Sometimes that bear bites you.

You might be ridin' in the finest limo,
Or starrin' in a Hollywood picture or two.
You may be havin' a ball at your A-list party
Sippin' champagne from a shoe,
But you know it won't last forever
Every up has its downside too
Yes, sometimes you get to bite that bear,
And sometimes that bear bites you.

You may be an ace at card play,
Or have a knack for rollin' them dice.
And you may win at most every spin,
Of that roulette wheel of life.
But haven't you heard,
You can't win 'em all,
Is the only permanent rule?
Yes, sometimes you get to bite that bear,
And sometimes that bear bites you.

Sometimes you get to bite that bear,
Sometimes that bear bites you.
Ain't no sense in feelin' bad, mad or, sad
Disappointed, angry or blue.
Cuz in this go round there's just one game in town
One toss of the coin then you're through
Yes, sometimes you get to bite that bear,
And sometimes that bear bites you.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:19 PM

No. I would have the same concerns if there were the same level of crowdedness at Bite of Seattle or an exhibition of Informercial Products on the center grounds or knitting exhibitions that drew this level of crowds. mg

That is the common sense approach that I hope you can see is lacking in the legislation and official line that I have demonstrated.

It is an approach that is encouraged where the focus is on potential public safety risks arising around music making and care must be taken if this encouragement is to be avoided. This approach places any risks before the benefits. Of course it is sensible that any real risks are adressed but I hope you would agree that a balanced approach is the best one.

some mentally ill and hospitalized people were taken to the fair..they should not have been.

I see no reason why these people should not be exposed to the proven benefits of music making and also to the related social activity. Sensible steps should of course be taken to address any real safety concerns and possibly in this case these steps were not adequate but this is a good example of where a balance must be made.

For is it seriously being suggested that is impossible to ensure an adequate level of safety for these people (and others) and that the only answer is to deprive them of such visits? I hope not.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 May 10 - 04:27 PM

Another scenario..happened at the Puyallup fair recently..some mentally ill and hospitalized people were taken to the fair..they should not have been. There was some incident..I can't remember what it was but it was serious...bottom line is you have to be able to have security and police and fire be able to get through quickly..and they probably would be rushing against the force of the crowd. mg

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:39 PM

No. I would have the same concerns if there were the same level of crowdedness at Bite of Seattle or an exhibition of Informercial Products on the center grounds or knitting exhibitions that drew this level of crowds. mg

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:36 PM

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/80603w0003.htm#column_WA41

June 2008
Lord Colwyn asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in view of the serious violence and disorder that broke out in Manchester when a big screen showing the ITV broadcast of the UEFA cup failed on 14 May, it will review the exemption for broadcast entertainment in the Licensing Act 2003. [HL3715]

Lord Davies of Oldham:

The screening in Manchester of the broadcast of the UEFA cup final in a public place on 14 May only took place with the consent of the local authority and under restrictions agreed with the police. It is therefore difficult to see what added control would have been available had the event been subject to the licensing controls under the Licensing Act 2003, or that such controls would have prevented the disorder that arose.

It remains the Government's position that big-screen television broadcasts in themselves do not cause disorder, but that it is the consumption of alcohol at such events that can lead to problems. Decisions on whether big-screen events should go ahead are the responsibility of the local authority in consultation with the local police, who are involved at an early stage, and event organisers. It is already possible under existing legislation to control consumption and drunkenness in public places.

Under the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, it is possible for a local authority to designate any area to which the public have access a place where alcohol may not be consumed. It is also an offence under the Licensing Act 1872 to be drunk in a public place. The Government are confident that the police and local authority in Manchester will ensure that safety and security arrangements provide a controlled environment at any future big-screen events.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:30 PM

mg

You ask a lot of questions about risks that I am sure measures have already been introduced to address and no one here is suggesting that sensible safety concerns like the ones you list should not be addressed, but you did not answer the one that I asked.

Life is by nature an unsafe event. The only sure way to make it safe is to end it. Is that what you and others who ONLY care about public safety, intend to do?

Perhaps you would agree that your stated concern ONLY for the public's safety is common to all gatherings and does not only apply to musical entertainment?

In England and Wales, music gatherings are still being over-regulated and damaged because of a myth that such gatherings present more public concerns that non-musical gatherings held in exactly the same places.

Thus a single non-amplified guitar is illegal without advanced Entertainment Licensing but the showing of TV sport in the same pub is not.

After there was a riot at an outdoor big-screen showing of TV sport - our (then) Goverment were asked if the public needed the same advanced protection afforded to them, as was available for the single guitar player - for the showing of TV sport? The reply was to the effect that that there were no additional measures available in Entertainment Licensing that would have protected the public in this showing of TV sport.

But despite this statement, these same additional measures are still thought to be the only way the public can be protected when live music is involved. My fear is that your real concern for safety is perpetuating the myth that musical gatherings present more concerns for public safety than do non-musical gatherings.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 May 10 - 01:35 PM

So what do you do the first time a child is crushed? Or someone is wedged between the crowd and the barbecue grills (a whole other subject)? Or people in wheelchairs can not get through? Or a dog gets scared and bites someone? Or a cooking tent catches fire and the crowd surrounding it is huge and can't move..and that is how crowded it is. Or someone has a heart attack and EMT can not get to them? Say, oops, we are going to look at our policies and review the situation and see that this does not happen again?

One person busking is not a problem. 20 or 50 probably can be absorbed. What if people figure out what a great place it is to do this and 300 groups come, many of whom are young children..age 10 or so..a moving crowd can not even see them. You could I guess insist that children at least be in a safe area.

Sometimes, just to inform everyone, as there seems to be some fundamental confusion here, people with safety concerns only have safety concerns and are not using this as a wedge to impose fascist control on people...but safety regulatios are the same as imposing control on people..the intent is for the public good however. mg

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,astro
Date: 12 May 10 - 12:58 PM

Becky (Desert Dancer) and I were there a year or so ago and I enjoyed being in Seattle, but really didn't enjoy the scene at Folklife. It was just too crowded which was exhausting. The Contra dance scene was again dangerously crowded. I will spend time at smaller venues with a much more manageable scene then there.So probably won't be back for a long time.

Astro getting ready for a nice weekend with Becky....

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: MAG
Date: 12 May 10 - 10:52 AM

um, as someone who has been shoved and threatened by busker audiences while I was trying to get through them with my guitar to get to my band at the roadhouse, I beg to differ about the safety issue.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Deckman
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:18 AM

Very well said Jon. Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:30 AM

My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread – some old ideas but many new ones!

My own connection with Folklife goes back to 1975 and I've sung on its stages every year since. Everyone on this thread and any opinions I've heard at Folklife and elsewhere all say the same thing – Folklife is not what it was. This is in some ways a good thing (I recall 1975 as being wall-to-wall bluegrass and us singers from Vancouver a novelty item), and in some ways, perhaps most ways, a bad thing (vastly overcrowded, an endless musical maelstrom, and an ever more pushy administration with no corporate memory).

John Ross before he died last year wrote and circulated a paper about Folklife being bust. His views were widely shared. I don't think it's possible to resurrect the Folklife we fell in love with.

I come now to Folklife to sing and drink with old friends, and, unlike the early days, when I might be found listening to a three-hour symposium on Vietnamese music in the northwest, rarely stray from The Northwest Court. I honour what Folklife taught me about music and the public: that our music of all musics should be free, volunteer-led and -run, and should open its doors to a wide range of subgenres. In the festivals I've run or had a hand in running (Vancouver's CityFest, 1991-8, and Princeton's Traditional Music Festival princetonfestival.wordpress.com , 2007 to date), both of which I describe as "children of Folklife", I have tried to follow these precepts. If we cannot bring back the old Folklife, we can at least support festivals and other musical gatherings or happenings which share its original impetus.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:11 PM

"They have meetings for deciding what new musical focus top have at the next years festival. The festival has no institutional memory. Therefore they are always creating a new festival by new people with new ideas as to what is relevant."

This is what "B Graders", by the very nature of their intellect DO - they "tend to flock together in such "organisations and lobby groups", funnily enough, as then they don't NEED TO THINK INDIVIDUALLY"!

But you really can't call "always creating a new festival" by their demonstratively ineffective repetitive processes that clearly demonstrate "no institutional memory" as genuine 'creative effort'.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:04 PM

"It's really been since the advent of the "Folk Festival Promoters" ... meaning those who went to college and got degrees in folk festival production management ... that these problems have occurred."

These people ARE the "B Graders" - those who CAN: PLAY - those who CAN'T: get degrees in folk festival production management... :-)

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 10 - 06:55 PM

"this perfectly workable suggestion/solution to reduce the overall volume levels outdoors at this event has escaped the notice of those organizing this event. Instead, they have given free reign to any acts drumming on the grounds, without showing the least concern about the volume levels of their instruments."

They are NOT Musos at heart, they are merely money making bureaucrats - "B Graders" - whose now guaranteed yearly income is not in any way related to 'making music', even if they 'make music' of any form themselves.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 10 - 06:51 PM

"organisations and lobby groups which appear to see and value regulation for its own sake"

It's simpler than that. The 'creative types' (the 'right brainers') - such as those that 'can do' can make complex value judgements 'on the fly' and react rapidly to changing situations.

The "B graders" (the 'left brainers') - see Douglas Adams in HHGTTG where he mentions the entire ship full of "B graders" - telephone sanitisers, etc that were bundled off to 'prepare the way' for the 'settlers' - as a convenient way of disposing of them out of 'normal society' - NEED that apparently 'simple list of rules' to (whatever they substitute for...) 'think' with, and get frightened when dealing with the 'creative types', whose intuitive and convoluted thought processes they cannot comprehend. they tend to flock together in such "organisations and lobby groups", funnily enough, as then they don't NEED TO THINK INDIVIDUALLY.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 11 May 10 - 02:40 AM

The reason why all forms of over-regulation are implemented in the name of the public's safety and are generally supported by those of who would take such proposals at face value, is that we and especially our politicians in particular, do not always delve as deeply as we might into the real reasons behind why such proposals are made.

Politicians are understandably very sensitive to how they are seen by the voting public. Even the most obvious proposed over-regulation, which is unlikely to actually achieve anything to protect the public in reality but will limit their freedoms even further, will be seen as political suicide for them to be seen to oppose.

The real fear is that should they be seen to be making a stand against the imposition of yet more needless red-tape, they will be accused of placing the public at risk.

There is a big danger here and we have to wake up to the fact that there are powerful organisations and lobby groups which appear to see and value regulation for its own sake, in pretty much the same way that many of us value music making and the basic rights associated with this. Let us not make it too easy for them.

The key is to ensure that a balanced view is taken. One which recognises and values the activity firstly and only secondly addresses any real public safety issues but does not simply use these issues to further the distorted view that regulation is the primary object in itself.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 10 - 01:19 AM

JohnP: My own opinion is that an organization that rents a public space for an event should be able to determine what goes on in that space, even if they invite the public.

Does Folklife rent the Seattle Center? That doesn't seem right.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 May 10 - 12:58 AM

I made a perfectly logical suggestion regarding the many drum acts that frequent this event. I suggested giving them an indoor location in which to perform. Taking that one faction out of the equation would dramatically reduce the overall din in the available listening environment on the grounds.

By an indoor location, I didn't mean an inadequate tiny room, with too few seats, or one that was tucked so far back into the corner of the basement of one of the buildings that it would be hard to even locate. I meant a nice indoor space with ample seating and dancing room, for those who enjoyed moving to the beats, with a nice stage, lights and even a PA, not that most drummers need a PA to be heard. Give them a worthy environment to consider performing in and they may just wish to happily play there. Call it, Drum Central or some such colorful name/title. Make it the place to go to hear such talents on display.

Of course, you could also do likewise for every loud combo that might wish to perform at the event. There are enough indoor locations that could accommodate them too. If listeners wanted to hear loud music they could go indoors to enjoy it. By removing the loudest volume makers from the outdoor stages, you lower the volume over the entire area across the grounds and eliminate the bleed of one loud stage performance onto another.

That move, to eliminate loud acts from outdoor stages, would make it much easier for those playing acoustic instruments in the same environment. More acoustic players could find places outdoors to offer their music casually to listeners on the grounds, like Bluegrass Hill. Those listeners who detest the loud volume levels outdoors would smile because their ears would not be assaulted by the harsh volume levels. Loud acts would smile because they would be featured in pleasant indoor environments, immune to the changing weather patterns.

Somehow, this perfectly workable suggestion/solution to reduce the overall volume levels outdoors at this event has escaped the notice of those organizing this event. Instead, they have given free reign to any acts drumming on the grounds, without showing the least concern about the volume levels of their instruments.

It's this same lack of concern that shut down a quiet acoustic jam that several old friends and I were having on the grounds. A drum group set up right next to us and drown us out via the sheer volume of their multiple drums. That group got away with playing what was perhaps the loudest African style drumming that I have ever witnessed. It hurt my ears to be in the same area. I understand that this (playing loudly) is perhaps the nature of their art form.

We were standing in plain view of them and they had no qualms about playing their much louder drums in the same area and effectively shutting us down via their volume. They used the volume of their drums, essentially, as weapons against us. They forced us to stop playing by playing so loudly that we could hear ourselves. Nor could anyone else hear us. We had to stop playing at that point. We could neither play or sing as loudly or louder than multiple drums being beaten with sticks.

I am also aware that perhaps this too is the very nature of their particular art. Drums have long been used in the art of war and establishing dominance. They knew, that because of the volume they could create with their drums, challenging us in that area would mean that they would win and we would lose. This was not a pleasant lesson to learn.

I didn't enjoy being forced out of the area because they were not willing not share the space. We tried waiting until they had finished displaying their talents and seemed to be taking a break, to once again offer our more quiet acoustic entertainment. Unfortunately, as soon as we started to try to play again, they started right up once more.

Sadly, this is not the first time that my attempts at performing casually in a public environment have been shut down due to the volume of those who played louder instruments. Most of those encounters with other performance folks were with those playing drums but there have also been those playing amplified instruments and horns too.

Usually, they have more than one person in their combo, but even one drummer can out volume an acoustic guitar. I've tried, to no avail, reasoning with almost everyone of them. In each case the parties with the louder instruments set up far too near to where I was already playing and began to dominate the same space via their volume, until I was no longer able to compete. Asking them to move to an area to where their volume wouldn't have a negative impact on what I was doing didn't seem to interest them. They've all responded the very same way. They knew what they were doing by interrupting me in the area and could care less that they were being rude and insensitive. There was absolutely no compassion expressed by any of them. Nor any willingness to cooperate in any fashion. That's been the same reaction that I've received over and over again by those who play instruments that have more acoustic volume. They've all acted as though they don't care and they don't have to care.

I'm guessin' that my only recourse is to just do likewise and make even more noise than they can create. I'll set up close to them and play a bigger drum. I do own a couple of big drums and I've been meaning to teach some lessons to those who see themselves as owning any situation simply because of the volume they can produce via their instruments. I see nothing wrong with fighting fire with fire if that's their game. Plus, I can be a really bad drummer too and I don't mean bad in a a good way either. ;o)

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: mg
Date: 10 May 10 - 08:54 PM

It is too stupid for words to think that that is what I thought or said. mg

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 10 May 10 - 08:31 PM

I only care about public safety, and this is by nature an unsafe event.

The old 'red herring'.

Life is by nature an unsafe event. The only sure way to make it safe is to end it. Is that what you and others who ONLY care about public safety, intend to do?

Public safety is an important aspect of any form of gathering but most of us ALSO care about aspects other than public safety which are also important and should not be risked in the name of the often meaningless mantra that public safety has now become.

This perfectly laudable aim is too often confused with security issues, mainly as it tends to be security employees who treat these aspects equally and often overlook that these are simply incidental to the gathering and are not the sole object.

It is insulting when assumptions are made that responsible people who simply ask for their rights and for commons sense to prevail at such gatherings are seen as having a wish to intentionally make the public unsafe and have can have no regard at all to the public's safety.

But far too many of our rights and freedoms are now being threatened by measures which are stated to be for the public's safety and sucurity but which only affect and place limitations on responsible members of the public and which have no affect at all upon those who would intentionally transgress.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: John P
Date: 10 May 10 - 08:01 PM

A LOT more folk music at Folklife. Lots of really good music, if you can put up with the mob scene and the noise.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:30 PM

In the light of what John P. says just above, can anyone explain to me the essential differences between the Northwest Folklife Festival held over Memorial Day weekend and Bumbershoot, the arts festival (also something of a mob-scene) held over Labor Day weekend?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:01 PM

Blackballed by Reggie Miles 5/25/2009

I got blackballed, blacklisted
Cuz I wasn't afraid and I resisted

My freedom, denied
Cuz I took a stand for what's right with pride

Got demonized, pushed around
Cuz I believed in my cause and stood my ground

Got knocked down, stepped on
And I didn't do a damn thing wrong

When sweet liberty becomes a crime
Our sacrifice to get it ain't worth a dime

You can spread your lies 'bout me all day long
You'll never stop me from singin' my song


Got blacklisted, blackballed
Innocent and yet the police were called

Denied my freedom
Treated like I was some kind of a bum

Got pushed around, demonized
For exposin' the truth and revealin' your lies

Got stepped on, knocked down
Cuz I believed in my cause and stood my ground

Folk ain't no four letter word
& singin' ain't illegal last I heard

When sweet liberty becomes a crime
Our sacrifice to get it ain't worth a dime

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: John P
Date: 10 May 10 - 10:27 AM

Wow, they just keep digging themselves deeper. Threaten to call the IRS on a street performer, and then jump on him for talking about it. Someone from Folklife was on this thread earlier. Are you still here? Is it really the policy of Folklife to report non-compliers to the IRS? Did someone really call a person to say they shouldn't be talking about it? What's the other side of the story?

My own opinion is that an organization that rents a public space for an event should be able to determine what goes on in that space, even if they invite the public. Obviously, the courts disagree, so that's that. I also think that any rule that is pushed beyond the point of practical application is a fetter and not a help. Reggie being told to not play in a location that wasn't causing a problem falls into that category.

Boogieman, I can't agree with you that "American roots music made this event" and that there is something wrong with it being an ethno-music event. I've been playing there for 27 years and have never played American roots music and have no desire to do so. Ethnic music that exists in the Pacific Northwest should and does get included. I do think they should stop having a yearly focus on one type of music, since that means they are specifically NOT focusing on others. But folk music is folk music, no matter where it comes from. It makes the festival interesting, which a bluegrass and western swing festival would emphatically not be. Rap, rock, jazz, and most singer-songwriters, however, don't have much connection to any sort of "folklife" and apparently take stage slots that are denied to folks who actually do play traditional folk music of some kind. I would also like it if all the crafts and food had some connection to folk arts. What's wrong with having a traditional arts festival?

But the worst part, by far, is the hundreds of drummers having an all-day, everyday, non-stop bash fest in the middle of the festival.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,artbrooks
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:12 PM

If you see a fat bald guy wearing an Albuquerque Folk Festival shirt, say hi, Art.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: mg
Date: 09 May 10 - 02:45 PM

But what would you do if you were in charge of planning for crowd control and public safety at this event, and the pathways are already quite clogged with the 10 year old violin trios? Perhaps allocate a side street and let them all compete without amplication? I do n't know. But I know the safety issues are very serious, and include, or included in the past the type of crowds that would drag you along with them, and toward barbecue grills and sometimes open flames. There are dogs in the mix, and I have seen pit bulls, on leash but not muzzled, at cheek level of babies. Oh but he never bites and it is only the way they are trained and not the breed of dog. I forgot that. There is very little open space for bluegrassers etc. to jam. There are people setting up big pianos etc. on walkways.

You have to be able to get ambulances or fire vehicles through. You have to be able to disperse a crowd quickly if there are gunshots, as there were a couple of years ago, or "events" such as a terrorist attack, and the Seattle Center is a target.

I don't care if some people can earn money there busking while others do it for free. That is not an issue to me. I also don't care if they pay Joan Baez or Paul McCartney to come and give them big bucks while the Scandia Fiddlers keep on fiddling for free. I only care about public safety, and this is by nature an unsafe event. And the number of buskers and kids playing by the dozens will only increase.

I think in general on non-crowd weekends it would be great to stroll through the grounds and hear live music and pay the buskers as inclined. But it can't be unlimited at Folklife, and if it is not unlimited, how do you go about limiting it? By permit? By location? I don't know. mg

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 09 May 10 - 11:40 AM

I have to agree with much of what has been said here with regard to the festival's downturn. In many ways, the fall of this event has crashed more thoroughly than our economy. All, that once made this event precious to many of those who put their talents, time and energy in to making it happen in the first place, has been washed away via that downward trend. On the way down, many have tried bailing it out, in the vain hope that something positive could be resurrected or turned around but no amount of pleading, tears, anger, fists pounding in frustration, raised voices, emails, suggestions, letters, complaints, messages like the above, on sites like this or even goodwill on the part of those who wanted to see this event succeed, or restored to it's former glory has been effective in reasoning with the cold, callous, thoughtless indifference and yes, even malice demonstrated.

Here's an interesting aside to all of this. After hearing about this thread and possibly even reading it, someone from the event approached my friend, the one who I initially described in this post and reprimanded him for speaking to me about his issue with the event. They were trying to quell his concerns and apparently did not like the fact that I brought the issue to light. I don't blame them for that. Who wants to be caught with their pants down?

The people at this event have my email address, my phone number and my street address. They were (note I said "were") even once befriended by me on my MySpace page but at no time have I received one private piece of communication about this, not that I would respond to it, even if they did call or write. My only interested is in shining the light of day on the issues that have come to my attention, their belligerence and lack of respect for civil rights.

Being abusive to others is not something that I can stand by and watch, without speaking up about it. Sadly, subjects like this are the themes of many of my original songs. In the words of Popeye the Sailor Man, "I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"

Most abusers know that there is only so much abuse that they can reasonably act out and that there is only so much abuse that that those they prey upon will put up with before that control, that they engage in, begins to backfire. So, the act of abusing others is usually a subtle dance. Those who choose to dance that dance usually do so by taking only small steps, so as to not arouse the attention of those who they are taking advantage of and risk retaliation for their actions.

Just as a poker player looks for tells in his fellow players to gauge and guide his actions in a game of cards, abusers look for signs in those that they abuse and use response clues to guide and direct their actions toward others that they wish to control. Like a magician, who is adept at sleight of hand, they are usually well versed in the art of distraction. As in this case, they show you what they want you to see and meanwhile they steal what they wish with impunity.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: GUEST,The Boogieman
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:39 PM

Howdy,
I've been performing at Folklife for over 20 years. I've worked for the organization at times. Now I look on the event as a shell of what it was intended to be.   It started out as a event by performers for other performers , their friend, family. Now for some it's become another people watching event much like the University Street Fair. It's another bite of seattle for some, who come to eat and gawk. There is still a large group of people, who love folk music.   For years the festival organizers have attempted to make it an ethno-music event. The blue grass players, the western swing players, the folk dancers etc. now take a back seat to this concept.   One of the program directors asked m how we used to get volunteers to stuff envelopes etc. I told him, it wa all volunteers. There was only one paid employee who worked year round. The new festival organizers spend a lot of time in meetings trying to figure out how to get more volunteers!
They have meetings for deciding what new musical focus top have at the next years festival.   The festival has no institutional memory. Therefore they are always creating a new festival by new people with new ideas as to what is relevant.   American roots music is what created this event. All of the music that already exists right here in the NW is what the event is about.   If you build it , we will come and play. If the event continues to be a festival for corporate sponsors, we won't.      "How to Alienate Folk Musicians?" must have been the topic of one of their meetings. As top street performers, this year there will be many more than ever.   If the festival doesn't try to control the situtation, you can be replaced by the nine year old violin student.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Deckman
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:10 PM

I made a mistake ... I meant to say: "I can get more quality folk music in ONE NIGHT in people living rooms than I can get in this four day festival! KITTOS! bob nelson

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Deckman
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:56 PM

I didn't think I would bother to add any more to this very good thread ... I thought that I'd already said whatever it was I could say of any value. But today, I chanced into a long and meaty, discussion with another serious folk musician, who also has a plus 20 year history with this festival.

I had expressed my frustration with the current product ... (note the marketing term) ... and yet I was a little surprised by the depth of his frustration and anger. He made an interesting point, one that certainly rang true with me:

It's really been since the advent of the "Folk Festival Promotors" ... meaning those who went to college and got degrees in folk festival production management ... that these problems have occured.

This NF Folk Festival had strong local roots. It was started with the locals, and for the first years, it was just fine: workshops, concerts, jam sessions, good clean healthy family fun.

Then came the promoters ... crafts, food venders, cops, crowd controll, diminishing parking for the performers, and worst of all ... the bringing in of "professional performers who were not local." At this point, the festival became a different animal, one that was way beyond local controll.

I just spent some time perusing this years schedule of performances and workshops. I was very, very dissapointed to see just how FEW performances I would personally attend. I get more quality "FOLK MUSIC" in one month in peoples living rooms than I can now get in four days of this so called "folk music festival!"

It's so sad ... what happened! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Stewart
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:58 PM

And Reggie, good song!

S.

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Stewart
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:54 PM

Hi John (07 May 10 - 07:46 AM): My sentiments exactly!
I have performed or put on workshops for the past 7 yrs at NWF
for no money whatsoever, often paying my own parking or bus fare,
while a few "stars" are flown in from across the country or abroad
and are paid, while us "volunteer musicians" get nothing.

I used to be under the impression that this was a folk festival
featuring the folk music and folklore of the region, the Northwest.
But it now seems to include anything from anywhere -
from pop, rap, & rock, to anything goes, at full amplification.
And every year we get fewer courtesies, and are badgered more
and more for monetary donations and other concessions for playing.

Still I continue to come back, I don't know why, as long as I get
a stage or a workshop. But I enjoy it less and less.

But I'll be there on Friday, 5/28, 3pm, on the Folklife Cafe Stage.
Friday is the best day - smaller crowds, less noise, and hopefully
better weather. I hope to see you then.
Maybe it will be better this time.
Or not.

Cheers, S. in Seattle
where the sun is shining today!

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 07 May 10 - 04:40 PM

If you ain't got that do re mi boys, if you ain't got that do re mi
You better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee
The Seattle Center is a garden of Eden, a paradise to play in for free
But believe it or not, you won't find it so hot, if you ain't got that do re mi

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:47 PM

I don't know where Reggie was exactly, but I think, from his description, I have a pretty good idea. It should have been no problem at all, neither blocking traffic, nor interferring with anyone elses performance.

I will wager this:   If Reggie hadn't been there, someone else would have been. So why pick on Reggie?

I think it was mainly because the security person was constipated and feeling cranky.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: NW Folklife threatens street performers
From: reggie miles
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:38 AM

In your hypothetical question, you suppose a private wedding event on public property is the same thing as a public event on public property. They are not the same but according to the Court's decision; you cannot regulate how far away one might perform to a gathered group of park goers. That doesn't mean that I or any other performer would have the least interest in interrupting your private event. However, NW Folklife being a public event on public property makes the issue an entirely different matter.

Weddings are traditionally private affairs and are traditionally held on private property. However, I have seen more and more wedding parties taking to the streets. I've seen them happily bounding by me with that certain spring in their step, while I'm in the midst of entertaining other passersby. I've always endeavored to pause what I'm doing and grab my hand saw to offer the Wedding March for them. By doing so, I'm just doing my part to wish the happy couples all the very best.

Just as in your hypothetical, NW Folklife supposes the worst of those who are street performers, as though they had no common sense to act appropriately in public. I disagree. So, NW Folklife creates hypothetical situations, "what ifs" with which to base their "guidelines" to restrict our First Amendment rights. NW Folklife is not alone in their disregard for the rule of law in this country or for their disregard of our Constitutional rights. They've carried their "what ifs" far too far afield when they start criminalizing folk musicians and demanding a fee to play folk music on public property.

I've not noticed anywhere in their "guidelines" that such a fee is being demanded of those who are simply panhandling on the event grounds. Of course, the absurdity of that action probably won't escape the "public safety" minded folks at NW Folklife for too much longer and soon we'll see a fee being demanded from those who are simply panhandling on the grounds. Oh, and NW Folklife will probably want their 15% from them too.

There are many that have used the catch phrase, "for public safety" to enact their own versions of inane regulations restricting freedom of expression on public property. Of course, what civic minded individual is going to stand in the way of "public safety"? This is such a common tactic, that it's become a cliché to use, for those wanting to wrestle control of public property from the public.

That's the means used by those private concerns wishing to curtail the freedoms we enjoy in this country, so that they can have their way with public property and minimize the public's use of it. For the "public's safety" they enact rules and regulations which try to side step our rights. Because it's for the "public's safety" they have carte blanche to use police authorities to help them in their actions to minimize individual rights. What they actually desire is control, plain and simple. The "public's safety" is the least thing on their mind. Those who crave power over our freedoms have found an ally in the phrase "for the sake of public safety."

In my experience, I've seen many street fairs do likewise, to placate those who they charge a bundle to vend their wares. I didn't see any NW Folklife security being concerned about the "public's safety" when those paying hundreds of dollars to vend their merchandise under covered walkways obstructed the public by causing all manner of traffic congestion. Isn't it odd how the "public's safety" isn't a concern to NW Folklife at all, once you pay them hundreds or even thousands of dollars, up front, plus 15%, to vend. Oh, but let someone come along and wish to play folk music at this so called folk event and all of a sudden, they are considered a "public safety" nuisance.

Make no mistake about it boys and girls this is most definitely NOT a "public safety" issue. This is big business paying for the right to push their weight around and curtail the public rights. The Court, however, did not see fit to grant such powers to the city of Seattle. Nor did the Court see fit to grant such authority to the private company hired by the city that manages the Seattle Center. Somehow though, NW Folklife envisions it's their right to demonize and criminalize the playing of folk music and those musicians who play it.

To compare John's hypothetical to my situation last year, the head of security directed me to move closer to the greatest amount of noise pollution at the event to offer my musical entertainment, rather than allow me to continue to offer it as far away as possible from the din of drummers gone amuck, amplified electric bands and every other distraction. Okay, are you paying close attention John? Again, I had the common sense to find an area of the grounds where I could offer what I had to offer far away from the other public events happening on the grounds but I was directed by the head of NW Folklife's security to move closer to those other functions. If this isn't plain enough as an example of the difference between individual common sense and corporate insanity, I don't know what is.

Being an acoustic performer and a long time street performer, I was using reasonable care to avoid that overly crowded area of the event simply because it would be near impossible for anyone to enjoy what I was doing in an environment with such distractions competing with my simple acoustic sound. I chose an area with the least amount of distractions for the sake of being able to be heard and enjoyed by the few folks that paused to listen. I had no interest in trying to compete with an amplified stage or a drum circle just as I would have no interest in competing with your wedding nuptials.