BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 05:39 AM

Rudd has gone - replaced by Sajiv Jhan.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:44 AM

Can may be far behind (as the poem says)
TIME FOR LORD SNOOTY and his gang
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:32 AM

Her job, all along, has been to keep the flak off May - that was clearly given to her as her main priority by Theresa The Praying Mantis, and she's done it very well. She was The Praying Mantis's umbrella and flak-taker during the last GE, appearing on TV numerous times to answer hard questions which, by right, May herself should have faced had she had the courage. Rudd has appeared regularly since, answering for things that rightly should be May's responsibility.

Now, she's taken the fall for The Praying Mantis one final time. I'd love to know what May promised her for being her fall-guy and taking all the shit, I just hope, for Amber's sake, that May has the decency to stick to her promise.

But I suspect she hasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM

I can't see how locking up someone who has legal status can be legal, in the absence of evidence that they are illegal. The fact that they have not produced that evidence is not evidence of illegality

Again, there can be no evidence of illegality, only absence of legality evidence, and it clearly is legal to detain such people.

The fault lies with successive governments who failed to provide the Windrush folk with evidence, or to even recognise that there was an issue.

Kate Hoey said on Peston that they had targets for removing illegals under Jack Straw, and I am sure there has been ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:14 AM

Thanks, Sen. And apologies for my coarse language, I do have a tendency to allow my language to degenerate occasionally, but I'm from a background where people call a spade a f***ing spade, and sometimes I just can't stop myself! But I do have the grace to feel shame afterwards! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:56 AM

Your post Backwoodsman sums it all up very succinctly.
She should have fallen on her sword ages ago, I'm glad she's gone. Serves her right.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:48 AM

She presided over the deportation, and threatened deportation, of immigrants and their families from Commonwealth countries who were invited here during the post-WW2 rebuilding, and who have a legal right to be here and remain here.

She claimed not to know anything about it, despite being the Minister responsible for it.

She then admitted that she did know about it.

She countenanced illegal deportations, she was complicit in an illegal act.

She lied to Parliament, an act specifically proscribed by Parliamentary regulations. Here's what it says on Page 30 of the Parliamentary Code...

"It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister."

What don't you understand about that, Bozo? You're not a Thick Cunt, stop pretending to be one.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:05 AM

So the left & mainstream media get their kill. In the meantime Corbyn doesn't do anything over the anti-Semitism that is rife in his party.

Abbott makes gaffe after gaffe

The world is now run by social media & the press apparently!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 02:55 AM

and if abbott attempted that post - I couldn't possibly comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 07:34 PM

She did not carry out her legal and moral duties when it came to the Windrush generation. She presided over and colluded in actions of gross injustice, which have shamed this country in the eyes of the world, even after these were brought to her attention. That is not being a good Home Secretary.

However she was a lot better than her predecessor, it must be admitted.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 06:22 PM

Poor woman, she was a bloody good Home Secretary.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:42 PM

May won't resign because her immensely-rich cabal of Tax-avoiding/evading puppet-masters wont permit her to - she is required by them to deliver a hard Brexit prior to the introduction of the new EU anti-tax-avoidance and evasion rules which come into force in May, 2019.

Once she's fulfilled that task, who knows - she'll probably be cast aside and abandoned to her fate.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:36 PM

I can't see how locking up someone who has legal status can be legal, in the absence of evidence that they are illegal. The fact that they have not produced that evidence is not evidence of illegality. If they have

I would argue that what has happened is evidence of criminal conspiracy on the part of the government.

Roll on a trial of the relevant people in the European Court of Human Rights!

..........
I've just heard the news. One down, one to go. Assuming May won't resign come what may, it's time to revive the process of impeachment in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:20 PM

She's resigned - announced a few minutes ago. About time.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 06:19 AM

Rudd is shielding May from the flak she should be rightly getting. Even if she goes from the position she is in you can be sure that Amber will be looked after by her cronies.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:11 AM

Individual civil servants who apply a policy - even if it is obeying orders (Dostler Case) - on the basis of the burden of proof of entitlement being on the part of individual as opposed to the burden of proof of non-entitlement being on the part of the institution must be called out. Surely fear of retribution from decent people would then be sufficient motivation to behave decently - including telling ministers of any party who apply immoral legislation where they can go.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:48 AM

having said that, I agree with McGrath that Rudd has been incompetent, and her statement about targets could justify her being sacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 02:21 AM

The Tories have been illegally detaining legal immigrants and threatening them with deportation

No they have not.
The immigration authorities have been wrongly apprehending legal citizens because successive governments had left them with no evidence of their status.

The authorities are mandted to take such action against people with no evidence of being here legally. The problem was that successive governments left genuine people without any means to demonstrate their status.
The Tories have now rectified that.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 03:49 PM

I'd love to imagine a Home Office and Benefit Agency Offices where walls were festooned with charts showing the number of decisions overturned by the courts, and identifying that as institutional, and individual, failure. But somehow I don't think it's that way at present.
.........
In today's Guardian Suzanne Moore sums up the situation rather nicely. (I'm pedantically using that term as it should be used.) "We've reached the point in a movie where May is using Amber Rudd's political corpse as a bullet shield."

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 03:02 PM

"Neither would have targets for returning legal ones."
The Tories have been illegally detaining legal immigrants and threatening them with deportation
That is what we are discussing - not the ***** illegal immigrants Abbott referred to
Hopefully Rudd and May will be kicked out on their arses for doing so and all those persecuted by their racist policies fully compensated
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:49 PM

Targets and performance indicators" means something very different from just targets

No it does not. It means targets and other PIs as well.

Your target in this case would be reducing to zero the number of wrongful deportations,

No. That is assumed anyway.

The Tory targets were for removing illegals, and Labour would have them too.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:34 PM

"Targets and performance indicators" means something very different from just targets. Obviously you need to know what you are trying to do and what's actually happening.

Your target in this case would be reducing to zero the number of wrongful deportations, just as your target in relation to benefits is bearing down hard on any wrongful denials of provision.

On the walls of wards in our hospital they have target indicators showing the number of occasions something has gone wrong, such as a fall. The aim is to reduced that number to nil, and keep it as nil.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:22 PM

"We are talking about enforced removals. We are talking about illegal immigrants. People who shouldn't be in the country at this time. Would not the Labour Party have targets for the removal of illegal immigrants?"

Abbott, "I just said to you any government department should have targets and performance indicators."

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 01:23 PM

Jim,
Typical of Keith's disortion - under pressure Abbot said that Labour would have a policy of the return of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Yes, just like the Tories.
Neither would have targets for returning legal ones.

kevin, I gave you the link. I will give the actual quote later or tomorow.
Why not listen yourself before making insinuations?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 01:08 PM

I confidentially assume that, if Diane Abbot actually said and intended to say anything that actually matches Keith's interpretation, it will be reported across the media prominently, and that she can expect to be sacked by Corbyn very rapidly.

I won't hold my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 12:43 PM

" "targets" for enforced deputation, Keith?"
Typical of Keith's disortion - under pressure Abbot said that Labour would have a policy of the return of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
Nobody has ever suggested that such immigrants should remain bu this has nothing to do with the Windrush generation who are in Britain perfectly legally and were given no documentation on entry - just a total agrreement that thye should have a permanent home in Britian
Where do we get these ****** fanatics
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 12:04 PM

In answer to a question, she stated that a Labour government would have such targets.
It was between 08.10 and 08.30. It starts at 07.00
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b0lwgd

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 09:14 AM

So could you flesh out your claim that Diane Abbot has said that Labour will have "targets" for enforced deputation, Keith? It sounds very unlikely that that is an accurate summary of whatever she may have said.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM

The Thoughts of Chairman Gove on immigration 1
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-live-radio-interview-immigration-figures-conservatives-nick-ferrari-dianne-abbott-a7742746.html

The Thoughts of Chairman Gove on immigration 2
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-immigration-spain-vote-leave-criticised-a7085336.html

The Thoughts of Chairman Gove on immigration 3
http://www.thenational.scot/community/15073732.Letters_I__Michael_Gove_told_us_Scotland_would_get_greater_control_over_immigration_post_Brexit/

The Thoughts of Chairman Gove on immigration 4
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-immigrant-influx-michael-gove-nhs-unsustainable


The Thoughts of Chairman Gove on The Peace Process
BELFAST AGREEMENT A "RIGGED REFERENDUM" AND A MORTAL STAIN "
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM

...or with anything at all

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:48 AM

Maybe it's best not to trust Gove with the big things.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:37 AM

It was OK for Jim to quote anti-Tory accusations from Diane Abbott and Dawn Butler, so I assumed it OK to quote a Tory minister on Labour.

Let us try to be fair on this Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:08 AM

What people need to know about Gove


In a BBC interview with Fern Britton, Gove said he knew the phrase “doing a Gove” had become synonymous with backstabbing, and that May had been right to sack him.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 08:03 AM

Labour's policy was also to expel illegals.
The Windrush folk were not illegal but had been left by successive governments with no way to prove it.

Gove on R4 with Abbott said that Labour had "weaponised" this issue to divert attention from their anti-Semitism scandals.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 06:25 AM

"
Diane Abbott on R4 today acknowledged that a Labour government would also have had targets for enforced returns.
DIANE ABBOTT ON IMMIGRATION
DIANE ABBOTT ON IMMIGRATION
DIANE ABBOTT ON IMMIGRATION
Asked how the targets had impacted on Windrush migrants, Ms Abbott said: "Immigration officials may have been looking for soft targets in the shape of West Indian pensioners who don't have hot shot lawyers."
Her Labour frontbench colleague, Dawn Butler, told the BBC's Daily Politics Mrs May was "presiding over a government that has policies that are institutionally racist".
Amazing how you can present a party's policy if you listen with your ears closed tightly enough
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 05:08 AM

There's a hell of a difference between keeping records of what you have done, including any kind of enforced returns, and having targets. What's tended to happen is that the Home Office has been sloppy with keeping records (when they haven't actually destroyed them) but had some quite inappropriate targets.

I would hope Diana Abbot would indeed ensure that under a Labour government a close eye will be kept on the numbers of enforced returns.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

Diane Abbott on R4 today acknowledged that a Labour government would also have had targets for enforced returns.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 04:08 AM

I wonder what May promised Amber for taking the crotch-kicks on her behalf?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:28 AM

She now says she had not read the memo giving details of targets for deporting immigrants. She is either lying or incompetent. Either way she needs to resign. With Rudd as home secretary, BoJo as foreign secretery and a dithering May as PM it is little wonder that the UK has become a laughing stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:00 PM

Amber Rudd appears to be fighting for her political career
First she denied there were targets for forcing immigrants to return - now she has admitted that there was “a target of achieving 12,800 enforced returns in 2017-18” and that this target had been exceeded."
It is reckoned that if Rudd is forced to resign May's position will be extremely insecure
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:21 PM

McGrath, is that the Home Office or is that an issue of his qualifications not being recognised in the UK? Not sure what the arrangements are for reciprocal recognition of dentistry qualifications.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 11:49 AM

Refusing qualified doctors from non-EU countries is mad.

Not just doctors. We have a neighbour from India who's a qualified dentist. So he's got a job in a convenience store while he goes through a long process which he hopes will end up allowing to work as a dentist.

After Brexit the same kind of thing will no doubt be happening to people from EU countries.

And the extra pressure being imposed on health workers by the shortages is meaning more and more professionals are giving up, heading off to places like Australia - or in the case of people at the lower end of the wage scale, going off to jobs with less pressure and more money, such as supermarkets.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 11:14 AM

Our medical people in rural Ireland tend to be somewhat more part of the community than I ever remember happening in London - not always an advantage
i remamber drinking with a friend in our local and his being told by the publican that he had been ordered off the drink by his local doctor - news travels fast in the countryside
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 10:04 AM

We're terrible natterers Jim.
Just today at the checkout in Asda, we were behind another mixed-race couple. We all smiled, then we got chatting. The man was a black African and his wife white English, just like us. They also spoke French, and that was it. Yap yap yap. I had bought a tub of ice-cream, and it was slowly melting. But it was so lovely to have a natter.

I liked your description of the Giles cartoon. I bet these racist idiots would be only too relieved to have emergency treatment for a loved one by any nationality at all when the chips were down.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:56 AM

"The trouble is, he and my husband and I natter away together,"
My problem is our doctor who is also a friend and we share an interest in traditional music and historical novels - not good with a waiting room full of patients
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:06 AM

Our optician is a lovely Nigerian chap. The trouble is, he and my husband and I natter away together, and the eye tests always run over time. hee hee

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM

This has been the situatiion from as far back as the Notting Hill Race riots
I remember a wonderful cartoon by Giles when I was a young man, which showed wounded rioting racist thugs being carried into a hospital to be treated by black doctors - sums it all up for me - some people would rather be in painn that be treated by a "foreigner"
Mad - mad - mad - sad world
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:47 AM

Refusing qualified doctors from non-EU countries is mad. As Jim's article says, there's already a grave shortage of staff, and the existing doctors will have to extend their hours to cover the gaps, or lengthen waiting lists for treatment. Where's the advantage in that?

I drove my neighbour to an Outpatients appointment recently at our Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital, and sitting in the waiting area, we noticed the wide variety of nationalities among the staff that passed through. It was lovely to see; Indian, African, Philippine, Chinese and so on. All no doubt desperately needed (porters, nurses, doctors, receptionists and so on)

They seem to be cutting off their noses to spite their faces by turning these valuable folk away.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:30 AM

400 VISAS
My mistake - that shou;d be 400 VISAS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Britain shamed before world - Windrush
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:04 AM

The Government have just announced they have refused visas to 100 new Indian doctors hired by the NHS
Worse and worse- we need to hang our heads in shame (all but one of us, of course)
Jim Carroll