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Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk

GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow 18 Dec 09 - 11:24 AM
Folknacious 18 Dec 09 - 10:29 AM
nutty 18 Dec 09 - 10:25 AM
Folknacious 18 Dec 09 - 10:12 AM
nutty 18 Dec 09 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,Captain Farrell 18 Dec 09 - 10:05 AM
Vic Smith 18 Dec 09 - 09:56 AM
Vic Smith 18 Dec 09 - 09:54 AM
Edthefolkie 18 Dec 09 - 09:49 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Dec 09 - 09:42 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 09:40 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 18 Dec 09 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Isawit 18 Dec 09 - 09:20 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 09:12 AM
Howard Jones 18 Dec 09 - 09:10 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 09:07 AM
Folknacious 18 Dec 09 - 09:07 AM
billybob 18 Dec 09 - 09:05 AM
GUEST,sophie 18 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM
theleveller 18 Dec 09 - 08:22 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 09 - 08:19 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Dec 09 - 08:11 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 18 Dec 09 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 18 Dec 09 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,Isawit 18 Dec 09 - 07:43 AM
GUEST,non-folk fan 18 Dec 09 - 07:37 AM
evansakes 18 Dec 09 - 06:50 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Dec 09 - 06:41 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 06:39 AM
mattkeen 18 Dec 09 - 06:38 AM
doc.tom 18 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 09 - 06:30 AM
Mavis Enderby 18 Dec 09 - 06:13 AM
Rasener 18 Dec 09 - 05:55 AM
Rasener 18 Dec 09 - 05:52 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Dec 09 - 05:50 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 09 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,JM 18 Dec 09 - 05:36 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Dec 09 - 05:32 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 09 - 05:30 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Dec 09 - 05:30 AM
Ruth Archer 18 Dec 09 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,SC 18 Dec 09 - 05:25 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 18 Dec 09 - 05:18 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 09 - 05:12 AM
julian morbihan 18 Dec 09 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 18 Dec 09 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 18 Dec 09 - 05:01 AM
GUEST,Lizzie, thinking about it again... 18 Dec 09 - 04:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:24 AM

If this is the rejoicing with which Bellowhead on the telly is welcomed, the joy after Seth Lakeman's My Music repeat on DirtyDigger Arts 1 on Monday and Tuesday could be overwhelming.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 10:29 AM

The usual suspects have predictibly closed ranks here and over on frootcakes.

I went and looked at "frootcakes" as you so amusingly put it. Most of the comments since the programme went out seem to be from non-folk people whose names are absent here. They apparently enjoyed it, since they obviously didn't know they were supposed not to, and at least one says she's off to buy CDs as as a result. Sorry to be bearer of adverse news.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: nutty
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 10:25 AM

This lot would have hated the Copper Family, Vic. They'd have said that they sang out of tune, or the wrong tune,

Folknacious - After over 40 years of involvement with the folk scene I have seen enough folk 'stars' come and go to have made up my own mind about what I like and don't like. I don't need to be patronised or condemned for my views. They are mine and I don't give a damn if you agree with me or not.

As matter of interest - I was present (many years ago) when Rachel Unthank sang in public for the first time. It wasn't the artists fault that this production was so bad.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 10:12 AM

This lot would have hated the Copper Family, Vic. They'd have said that they sang out of tune, or the wrong tune, or that you got better things in their local folk club doing floor spots where the "real grass roots"people without whom there wouldn't be a folk scene go. They'd have piled into the Watersons as well. Hardly anybody ever wins around here. I'm with "Ralphie" and Guest non folk fan.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: nutty
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 10:11 AM

I say again to all you knockers. You bloody well come up with something better. submit your idea to the BBC.

It was perhaps unfortunate that 24hours previous to watching this on TV, I had been to see the Geordie's Winter Almanack Radio Show Starring Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies and Benny Graham - which was top class entertainment.

Fire and Ice paled by comparison


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Captain Farrell
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 10:05 AM

Last night I was out playing so had to record Christmas Folk.I read most of the comments first then went to see what all the fuss was. Did I watch the same program it was fantastic well done to all involved and the audience had one hell of a night.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Vic Smith
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:56 AM

perforers = performers
patment = payment

Trying to rush things.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Vic Smith
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:54 AM

I didn't see the programme - too busy last night singing, dancing, playing for dances and calling dances for others, but I do know - from urgent phone calls seeking replacements - that the day before the final rehearsal with the filming the day after, that the Watersons had to drop out of the programme that was broadcast last night because Norma was indisposed and that the replacement that was being sought was The Copper Family. Obviously, his did not come off, but it certainly would have given the programme a different bent if it had done.
I don't even know for certain who the late replacements were - though I have got a pretty good idea - but what is certain is that at least one of the acts were there at less than a day's notice to prepare for what was probably the biggest exposure that they have had in their careers.

Folk enthusiasts! What are we like? I may think differently after I have seen the programme, but we are given an hour of prime time on a major channel and, from the majority of comments on this thread, we can only moan about it.

We have got to realise that tellyland is a very different place from the folk club. If folk performers are invited into tellyland, they have to play it by tellyland rules.

I worked very hard last night, but I didn't get paid for it. That doesn't stop me being thankful that some top folk perforers did get good exposure and good patment last night.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:49 AM

I think considering the amount of depping (weren't some of the First Family of Folk originally supposed to appear?) and obvious lack of rehearsal, it wasn't too bad at all.

I must agree with others that the sound didn't do anybody any favours, and some of the "featured" audience were embarrassing. But at least it was nearly real, unlike the prerecorded regurgitated cr*p we have to put up with most of the time on telly.

It should be also be remembered that the BBC expertise about acoustic/folk performers which used to exist (eg BBC Bristol, Philip Donnellan et al) seems to have gone to the four winds.

Thea and Lisa - if you ever read this would you please do some gigs in the E Midlands or round Sheffield? Thang Yew.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:42 AM

"I'm saving watching it until after xmas pudding and I'm well cidered up
and starting on the apple brandies..
should be just as good as any of the rest of the seasonal shite on christmas day telly."

Good call Punkfolkrocker! Perfect in fact.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:40 AM

In mitigation........ I was brought up a Catholic...

But I cannot tell a lie - the accusation is correct


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:24 AM

Thank you very much


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:23 AM

DVD'd it late last night..


I'm saving watching it until after xmas pudding and I'm well cidered up
and starting on the apple brandies..

should be just as good as any of the rest of the seasonal shite on christmas day telly.


.. glad i didn't go to watch it live though..

i effin hate smug middle class artwank poser fancy dress parties..


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Isawit
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:20 AM

mattkeen

Only wanker here would appear to be you.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:12 AM

Replying to thelevellers comment by the way

I dont want my comments about masturbators being associated with the Daughters of Albion


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:10 AM

The question in my mind is who does the BBC think is the main audience for the BBC 4 Sessions? They may attract some mainstream viewers, by chance or out of curiosity, and from that perspective it made a great show - a bit different from anything else on, and miles away from the mainstream perception of "folk". So in that respect, well done.

However I suspect that the majority of viewers for any of the BBC 4 Sessions are people who are already familiar with the performers, or at least the genre, and who will more be interested in the music than the show. In the majority of cases (the June Tabor session stands out as a shining example) this is what they provide. It looks as if they tried to do something a bit different and special for Christmas, but in doing so took their eye off the ball.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:07 AM

That in itself doesn't make them that particular type of wanker, but nevertheless they still might be one


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:07 AM

And haven't we been here before with the similarly excellent and slightly wonky BBC 4 Daughters Of Albion a few years back? I expect there's an anorak on hand to find the thread, unless I'm doing mistaken identity with the BBC Folk & Country board


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: billybob
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:05 AM

I sat down with a glass of wine, a log fire and really enjoyed it.Started Christmas for me and the snow outside was a bonus.
If you did not relax and enjoy ,why not switch off and have a sing instead?


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,sophie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM

i really enjoyed :D
i thought bellowhead were excellent
maybe could of done with less of unthanks and more bh
and maybe a couple jumpy jiggy songs
but i thought it was brilliant
everyone looked great
everyone did really well :D
jim moray was brilliant and i though lisa knapp was good
and its defentely got me in the christmas mood :)
(just thought id add some possitive for people to read)
(and hey its christmas people, lets all cheer up a bit)


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:22 AM

I didn't see it but just a general point here - when did expressing an honest opinion, even if it is a critical one, make a person a 'big whingey wanker'? Surely that is what Mudcat is for. Seems to me that some of those who consider themselves the folk 'cognoscenti' are doing another spot of brow-beating.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:19 AM

Sam Lee sang with Jon Boden for On Christmas Day, a duet which he normally performs with a temporarily voiceless John Spiers, and this was undoubtedly unrehearsed (I haven't seen it but I did hear it, and well done Sam). And Jim Moray depped for Benji Kirkpatrick who was unable to be at the recording. What this demonstrates is how versatile and skilled English trad musicians are, over and above many another genre. Though Joe Public wouldn't be aware of this and those Good Enough For F*lk carpers from the Swiggin' Pig who proudly proclaim unawareness of the artists involved wouldn't care.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:11 AM

GUEST,non-folk-fan and mattkeen are perfectly right.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:04 AM

GUEST Non Folk Fan.
Well said......say it again....LOUDER.
Cheers
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:01 AM

Somebody above mentioned lack of rehearsal...Almost certainly correct...Presumably all the acts are out gigging the rest of the time...Like, maybe earning a living perhaps?
How on earth would they find the time and the money for a rehearsal day? The BBC certainly wouldn't pay for it.
Jim M (at the last moment apparently) had to dep for John Spiers (who'd lost his voice) and valiantly stepped into the breach. (A decision probably made on the day). Bloody good too.

I say again to all you knockers. You bloody well come up with something better. submit your idea to the BBC. Get rebuffed 100 times. and then you can critisise the people who have done this programme.

So, instead of bitching on here.. Go and hassle the Beeb, tell them how much you enjoyed it, and ask for more.

How difficult is that?


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Isawit
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:43 AM

IT WAS POOR AND I HAVE SEEN IT

The usual suspects have predictibly closed ranks here and over on frootcakes. Their joint afflictions of tone deafness and arrogance have made them oblivious to the debacle that it was.

Folk has shot itself in the foot.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,non-folk fan
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:37 AM

Found this site while googling for more info on Bellowhead/Unthanks.

What to say? Ah yes. What a bunch of whingeing, carping and sniping arseholes you lot are! Clearly this site was named *after* you had all been posting for a while, else how could it have been labelled so accurately (imho).

I watched the Christmas Sessions show by accident (couldn't be arsed looking for the remote to change channels) and enjoyed much of what I saw/heard. The Unthanks were dodgy on their first song - crap harmonies through nerves I would have, charitably, thought - but 'Tar Barrel in Dale' was quite beautiful, as was their harmonising on Lisa Knapp's song.

Bellowhead's 'Mistletoe Bough' was excellent, and is the song that made me sit up and start paying attention to what was on TV. It made sense to me that everyone was in period costume, since many of the songs (I assumed) were rooted in the past (a bit like some of your attitudes to be perfectly frank). 'Jingle Bells' was crap, but then presumably that's what you had all been hoping for .... aye?

So this non-f*lkie (what's with the stars? Are you ashamed of the genre?) thought he'd have a look round for more info on some of the acts this morning and finds this forum; and a bunch of twallies seemingly intent on shooting themselves in the foot (feet? paws?) by sneering at a show which managed to get at least ONE person interested in your type of music.

Tragic.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: evansakes
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:50 AM

I agree the production didn't seem up to the usual standard of the BBC Sessions series

Wonder why they didn't use St Luke's then? Clerkenwell is only down the road from Shoreditch after all. At least the production folks would've been in a familiar environment and known what they were doing. I suppose St Lukes is a bit smaller....though they could've solved that by removing the tables like they did for Springsteen's Seeger Sessions Band (where the sound was faultless).

Personally, I didn't enjoy last night's show much (though I've got a lot of respect and time for many of the artists on show). With all the 'Good Old Days/Jack The Ripper era fancy dress it all seemed a bit contrived to me and the 'merriment' a bit forced.

The audience seemed particularly well oiled. Nothing wrong with that of course but why do drunken people find it so difficult to clap in time?

Maybe you had to be there? I only watched on the iPlayer today.....last night I had a long drive home listening to St Agnes' Fountain's 'Comfort and Joy' album as the snow fell (snow on snow). Comparing St Agnes Fountain to the 'session' in Shoreditch is chalk and cheese of course but listening to Julie, Chris W, David and Chris L jingled my bells last night....and got closer to the true spirit of Christmas.

I think Bellowhead and co are more of a New Years Eve thing...


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:41 AM

I agree with pretty much all that Tom said, except that I think it fell between wanting to be a good live show and wanting to be a good TV broadcast. Maybe not enough rehearsal or re-takes for the latter, but it looks like it definitely delivered on the former.

I had misgivings about the whole Victorian thing - I couldn't really see how it would work in my head, and a pathological fear of fancy dress (combined with far too much work that week) meant that I ended up not going along. But I have to say, I thought the venue looked magical. I don't think it confirmed a stereotypical folk image - more a tongue-in-cheek nod to stereotypical Christmas images.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:39 AM

Folk will eat itself


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:38 AM

Ok the battle lines are drawn

I can't be arsed to argue this stuff with logic anymore - its beyond that

I THINK IT WAS GREAT AND I HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET


Its great because of the committment bravery, skill and adventurousness of those involved especially Bellowhead and JM


First we take Maidenhead; then we take Berlin


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: doc.tom
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM

Given the little I know of the workings of TV, it looked to me like a curate's egg falling between Bellowhead's ideas and producers ideas. OK, the Dickens/Music Hall setting was naff - but it fits public image.

Line-up: lets not go there - but the show was under-rehearsed.

Sound: so right Ralphie - and as you say, good luck to them.

Agree with George - Sartin does a great piss-take!

I've seen worse (and I've seen better).

Credit for the attempt.

Tom Brown


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:30 AM

As was pointed out further up, the difference between the sound recording of this Hackney session and the ones further up the road at St Luke's lies in the teams involved. Serena Cross had nowt to do with it (unless you can pin the blame on her for booking the wrong engineers).

Thanks to those who posted me links to the online iPlayer. I've now seen the first 10 minutes of last night's broadcast but sound and vision was so out of sync that I've abandoned it till Virgin Media get round (if ever) to updating their iPlayer listings and I can see it on a proper telly.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:13 AM

Just checked, since comparisons have been made between this session and the St Luke's gigs - same producer, Serena Cross.

JM wrote "...unless you (Suibhne) and WAV have actually been the same person all along and this has all been some incredible hoax"

Now there's a thought!


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:55 AM

LOL goed gedaan George


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:52 AM

See if this works

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pcnsp/BBC_Four_Sessions_The_Christmas_Session/


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:50 AM

Here you are
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pcnsp/b00pcnsf/BBC_Four_Sessions_The_Christmas_Session/


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:42 AM

So where is it on the iPlayer? Can someone post a link? I looked under Fire and Ice and Christmas Sessions then gave up.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:36 AM

Suibhne O'Piobaireachd wrote : "The bit I saw last night had dolly birds laying around the floor looking on dewy eyed whilst some bloke sang O Come Emmanuel in an R&B style X-Factor American accent."

I know I shouldn't rise to this but...

Sorry I don't have a particularly strong regional accent. I was born in Cheshire and brought up in Stafford. I've always spoken like this - a fairly middle-class, middle-england accent - and I don't sing any differently to how I speak. But calling it an 'X-Factor American accent' is fairly wide of the mark. I grew up on 90s British indie bands and Bowie/Beatles etc. - I thought from the things you write on here you of all people would understand that... (unless you and WAV have actually been the same person all along and this has all been some incredible hoax)

As for the 'R&B style X-factor' bit - It was put together at very short notice and in actual fact I stole some of the chord progressions from something else - Vaughan Williams' 'Variations on Dives and Lazarus'. Maybe I have a hairdo like Joe McElderry and that threw you off. I don't know.

I'm just puzzled. Thats all.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:32 AM

Bloody HTML... the second para above should read:

Paul Sartin's MCing was deliciously tongue-in-cheek throughout, and if he wasn't quite up to InsertNameHere's standard, I don't give a toss. After all InsertNameHere isn't such a versatile and great player of so many instruments and characterful singer. So there.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:30 AM

Stick, wrong end of. Yet again. Though I'm not surprised that you fail to recognise the condescending and ignorant view reserved purely for English trad displayed by the public at large and their representatives on Breakfast.

This is an exclusively English disease and accounts for what is wrong with a lot of media presentation of said genre. Horses and incest.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:30 AM

Blame it on my poor taste, or perhaps on the wonderful snowy scene outside my window this Friday morning, as I watched the show on iPlayer, but.... I loved it! The show overall, I mean. Sure, there were bits I was not over the moon about, and bits where my toes curled somewhat, but I won't mention them, it would be unfair. Instead I will mention my personal highlights, in no particular order:

Paul Sartin's MCing was deliciously tongue-in-cheek throughout, and if he wasn't quite up to 's standard, I don't give a toss. After all isn't such a versatile and great player of so many instruments and characterful singer. So there.

George Unthank's song about the Tar Barrels in the snow was gorgeous, evocative and excellently sung by the Unthanks and rest of the crew.

Thea Gilmore's song "That'll be Christmas" is in the "I wish I'd written that" category, and she sang it very well, I thought.

I actually loved the "Mistletoe Bough" song. Great ghostly story, and I am a fan of Jon Boden's voice, so couldn't go wrong.

I thought Sam Lee did great to step in at the last minute for the voiceless John Spiers - and his is another voice I like anyway.

And Belshazzar's Feast were great, and Bellowhead themselves the most fun I've seen them on the screen.

And overall, a great selection of appropriate material. I don't often say this, but I wish I'd been there.

So quit bellyaching and tune into iPlayer and watch it - again.

.................

As for the kind comments above - thanks. And I know I'd be great on TV, not that I'll ever get the chance, but I have the figure to do a wide angle lens justice, and the kind of face HDTV was invented for (I could also do surface-of-Mars close-ups). But seriously, thanks.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:27 AM

"And it's why English folk music is so often sneered at for being the music of the Luvvies."

By whom - except for you?


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,SC
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:25 AM

To say that better sound and production would have improved the performances implies that the performers can't sing. I've always thought that regarding two young ladies from Gateshead anyway. A bad workman/woman blames his/her tools would seem to apply here if Ralphie is to be believed.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:18 AM

"You only have to look at the expression on Pete Flood's face during the trail on Breakfast yesterday morning to get some idea of how cringingly embarrassing it was for serious musicians to be exposed to such unbriefed and pseudo-ho-ho interviewing. Had a sousaphone player from a brass band or symphony orchestra been on the couch, would they have been subjected to such ridicule? I don't think so."


No. That is totally condescending, Diane. And it's why English folk music is so often sneered at for being the music of the Luvvies.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:12 AM

Hmmm, first off, I haven't seen it. Can't find it on the iPlayer yet and I'm not rushing to find it. Of course it wasn't a programme for "f*lkies" (yeuk) however you define that species. It was conceived "Xmas entertainment for the masses" with all the dumbing down that entails. But if it prompts one or two Joe Publics to investigate further what some of these artists really can do, good.

You only have to look at the expression on Pete Flood's face during the trail on Breakfast yesterday morning to get some idea of how cringingly embarrassing it was for serious musicians to be exposed to such unbriefed and pseudo-ho-ho interviewing. Had a sousaphone player from a brass band or symphony orchestra been on the couch, would they have been subjected to such ridicule? I don't think so.

However, television production of trad music doesn't have to be like that, even in England. Transmissions from St Luke's prove that it is not so.


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: julian morbihan
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:07 AM

As with almost everyone else it seems, we were disappointed with the programme - with the presentation, the sound quality, the choice and delivery of the material.

How about them bringing back "A Christmas Present from the Albion Band"? Now that was when Christmas shows were really good!


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:07 AM

And Howard...
Yes...B/Head are an Engineers nightmare...
Have done worse though...
The Uke Ork of GB on 5 mics, Live on a Johnnie Walker show. No Sound/Line check.....NOW!
Fairport....the same...Walk through the door...10 seconds later...Playing!
That's mixing with brown trousers I can tell you!


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:01 AM

Howard . (and others)
The balancer on last nights show comes from a TV background. I won't name him.
If they had let Group 2 (Radio....The guys that do Maida Vale sessions, All festivals, and all my old colleagues!) loose on that show, the sound would have been a hundred times better!

Will mentioned the St Lukes gigs...Sounded great...why? Group 2 Studio Managers.

In the TV world, Sound balancing comes a poor 4th in the pecking order.
At any major gig....(The Proms, Glasto, etc...) The sound is provided by Radio Studio Managers. Not being bothered with pictures, we do the mix, and just provide the tele boys with a stereo feed.
Sadly, The budget on last nights show obviously didn't run to it.

I would have loved to have seen/heard what Mike Walters would have made of it!

Hope that helps!


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Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Lizzie, thinking about it again...
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:59 AM

To be honest, Ralph....the vast majority of the peoplel who've written in here love traditional folk music, but seem to be bitterly disappointed at what was presented last night. I still haven't seen it, therefore I can't yet comment, but surely the message, whether you like it or not, is coming through loud and clear.

You know, as well as we all do, that the folk scene is thriving with hundreds, if not thousands, of deeply talented musicians, singers and dancers, many of whom hold audiences spellbound.

That didn't seem to happen in this show, and I think that's very sad indeed, because to have such a wonderful opportunity...and blow it...is a really bad move.

When I've watched it, I'll comment on it..


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