Who Killed Folk Music?

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 08:34 AM

Phew, thank goodness I read this thread in time! Tomorrow night I was going to venture off the edge of the map to visit the Eel's Foot pub at Eastbridge in Suffolk, but if folk really is dead, I won't have to bother. Judging by previous occasions, between six and twenty singers and musicians would have gathered by eight o'clock,just as they have for hundreds of years, strong drink would be taken, a very elderly gentleman would sing 'Flash Company' and the rest of us would take turns with Dylan, Broonzy, melodeon tunes, sea shanties, Richard Thompson, George Formby, and anything else that we could get away with. Around midnight we would have been packing away the instruments when someone would strike up another tune and away we'd go again.

Now I suppose I can stay in and watch 'East Enders'and have an early night.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Suffet
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 08:10 AM

Greeting:

Art's example of his Mississippi riverboat job is exactly what I mean when I say creating one's own venues. If you can actually make a living at it, more power to you. If not, at least you've found an opportunity to connect the music with people who likely do not frequent the folk club and festival scene.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Andrez
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:51 AM

Morris Dancers !!!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:37 AM

Disagree Richard. totally disagree.

I'm sure you're a great guy, but I'm allowed to disagree.

I grew up with old people. My grandmas sisters - some of them were born in the 1850's. that means they probably knew people who fought in the battle of waterloo- in the same way that i knew loads of old soldiers who fought in the 1st world war when I was a kid.

None of them sang in the 'traditional' manner. None of them reacted to the hardships of their lives in the ways outlined in folksongs - running off to join the ships company dressed as a man, etc. I find most folksongs profoundly disrespectful of the sheer shittiness of their experience. It wasn't the floggings and hangings that kept people in their place - it was the rigidity of the class system and the day to day grind of every kind of poverty.

I think Kingsley Amis had it about right when he described Eliot and Pound's attempts to re-connect with a long dead poetic tradition as being 'like a maniac rampaging round a museum'. this is what 90 odd percent of English folk music sounds like to most English people. Compare and contrast with what comes out of the radio in countries where there is a living tradition. In those countries the tradition my come from the lips of Chuck Berry or Daniel O'Donnel - but the thread is at least tangible.

First reflect on your own life. then try to express it. then your art will live. It may not fit in with the assholes who want to dress folk music up in grandad shirts and Laura Ashley dresses, may not make the Mike harding playlist, but at least - it will have some integrity.

all the best
big al whttle

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 04:26 AM

Anyone who writes contemporary music and calls it folk music helps to kill folk music - or at least to dilute the bloodline so much that the inheritance becomes invisible.

I don't object to contemporary acoustic music (or whatever name you want to give it) - but it isn't folk music.

It is remarkably similar to diluting ethnic traditions - dilute them enough and you sanitise cultural identity.

We defend folk music by performing it and re-interpreting it. Not by asserting that the cuckoo in the nest is the true hatchling.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 02:33 AM

I haven't gone bak and see if I already said this years ago, but since I don't like old conversations I will say it again...
Hitler certainly killed the beautiful german songs, or tried to by appropriating them and then people wouldn't sing them. Teachers ion American schools who tried to "elevate us" from our humble origins...snooty people who look down at the irish-American songs every st. Patrick's day...Catholics who put together wierd and ugly sounds and called it folk music...well that is enough for now..although i AM NOT CONCEEDING THAT IT IS DEAD. MG

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:44 AM

Q: Who killed Folk Music?

A: "Not I," said the duck.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:26 AM

Again, Steve, I'm agreeing with some of what you've said---including that we must create our own venues. To me, that means we have to get it across to people why what we do is valuable to them. That can make for real job security. When I was doing the Mississippi River steamboat gigs for ten years, I showed 'em I was willing and able to take over the raconteur/tall tale teller job the Captain did during the excursion trip. That freed the captain up for some rest time during the long day's voyage. That made me an even bigger asset to the boat voyage than just the 2 hours I was hired to fill being a folksinger.

In that sense, I guess I was creating my own venue!!

Art

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Zhenya
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 12:08 AM

Janice, I loved your story! If I was there, I would have been singing along too!

As far as where these people learned the song - well, my young niece, who lives in another state and is a public school second grader was visiting this summer, and she was singing "This Land is Your Land" and "Michael Row the Boat Ashore" and other songs of this type. She didn't get them from me, and, unfortunately, neither of her parents is interested in this type of music. But apparently, she has been learning them in school. I've heard similar stories from friends, so that's one avenue for keeping these songs alive. Summer camp is probably another one, and maybe religious activities. Maybe even TV, in an odd moment, who knows. Most of you probably are like me, and have your ears perked for any good song that comes your way, no matter where it pops up.

I have to confess I haven't read every entry in this long thread, but I have read the more recent entries and some of the earlier ones. I guess a lot depends on the old question, how you're defining folk music. It seems that many people here are referring to mainly songs (as opposed to tunes without words), maybe singer-songwriter type of material, singer with a guitar, protest songs, and so forth. I still think there's a lot of exactly that around, if you know where to look, although it's not mainstream.

For myself though, I guess I think of all these things and more as folk music: Irish and Scottish tunes, sea chanties, Child Ballads, singer-songwriter, Sacred Harp, Appalachian fiddle tunes, etc. etc. There is so much of this around that I have to keep a special "music event" calendar for myself to keep track of it all: concerts large and small, workshops and classes, sessions and singers' circles and more. The majority of events I go to seem to be well attended, and equally nice, there are often many new faces of people young and old who are just discovering this music and getting addicted. I am, admittedly, in a large city, but of course there are plenty of places with active music scenes of this sort. I guess my point is that the music is still very much out there.

I agree with several posters above that one of the biggest problems is simply making people aware of the music and how they can participate in it. Probably half or more of the events I go to are advertised simply by "word of mouth." You have to already be involved and on someone's e-mail list, or be lucky to have the right friend to invite you along. I am sometimes surprised the audiences are as big as they are, because there often seems to be little public outreach going on. This is probably something the folk community really needs to concentrate on more. I also agree that at times, the community is not always patient and welcoming to new members, and can get kind of cliquish. Not all the time of course, different groups have different dynamics, but it's something to think about if you truly want to bring more people in and have them become a long term part of things.

To sort of come full circle and end on a positive note, I was at a Sacred Harp sing yesterday and there were many new faces, including lots of younger ones. One person heard about it from a friend who sang, another one heard about it in their ethnomusicology class. Someone heard it in the movie "Cold Mountain" and got curious. And one woman said "I just heard this for the first time last week and I HAD to learn how to do it!"

So I respectfully disagree with this thread title - I think folk music, however you wish to define it, is quite alive, although maybe not as visible to enough people as it could be. So keep singing and playing whenever and wherever the opportunity arises, and spread the word(s)!

Zhenya

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Suffet
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:14 PM

Greetings:

Here's a link the thread A Real Folksinger. Go ahead and read the original in its entirety, along with all the responses. It created a bit of a stir four years ago. I wrote it to console a friend whose application had been rejected by the Old Songs festival, even though she is recognized as quite an accomplished folk musician with lots of festival, concert, coffee house, and club performances to her credit.

I still stand by everything I said then, including the necessity for a folksinger to create his or her own venues.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: rongcro
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 10:32 PM

In talking about where folk music ended, we might look at where it started--that is,its latest resurrection after WWII. As an old folk song lover, I seem to recall that folk music was always around in some form, but it wasn't always dominant and did not become a strong force on the music scene until the nineteen fifties--maybe late fifties. Before, the scene was dominated by the crooners of popular love ballads like Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, etc. There were always a few lonesome folksingers out in the thirties and forties like Woody Guthrie and some of the black singers like Ledbelly (Irene Good Night). There was the English folk singer Richard Dyer Bennet whose record I happened to find in the library.
Maybe there were others, but the first folk singer that I remember becoming nationally popular after (maybe during) WWII was Burl Ives (Blue Tail Fly, etc.). For a time, he seemed to be out there by himself. But then folk songs and singers really took off after the excellent Weavers group broke the surface. Seems like after that the groups began multiply like crazy: Kingston Trio, Brothers Four, Peter, Paul, and Mary, etc.
But there was no reason to expect this style of music to dominate longer than it did. Music styles always change. I, however, was delighted when it came and greatly disappointed when it gave way to rock and roll in the seventies. Its high popularity seems to have lasted over a decade, and that's not bad.

Ron Crowe

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 08:57 PM

THIS MACHINE KILLED FOLK MUSIC--
"a sign of the times stuck onto some mod country/pop kid's guitar maybe"

What machine?

Show biz?! Maybe. Maybe not.

Steve Suffet, I think I understand where from you are speaking--and some of the frustrations that can be generated. Good people, all of 'em---are doing the best they can to find their own place in folkdom---kind of a little like us road warrior singers of yore. Now it's showcases and agents and gorilla showcases and road managers and more showcases and travel agents and "product" to sell and guitar and banjo and dulcimer endorsements and a huge too-expensive-to-attend convention once a year in a hotel the president stayed in the week before. And on and on. It's a lot more monkey business now than I would've ever figured was possible, or desirable, in other seemingly simpler times---! This new folk thing would be uncomfortable as all hell for me to maneuver within---so it's probably best that I can't participate much now except by writing pointed diatribes like this one. But if I was young, and could do it, I would, like those little pullets in Chris Bouchillons good old 1928 song --- The Original Talkin' Blues-----I would be out there " pluggin' away the best I knew how" !

My advice, just keep on keeping it alive any ol' way you can. It really is THAT important!!! Once folks are IN our little pond, they will most likely swim with the trends and currents of the times. Then, but maybe not in our lifetime, they will dive deep---and there will find the roots-----just waiting invitingly, and ever so succulently, to provide the nourishment they never knew they liked the flavor of, or needed, before that. Acquired tastes can often be enhanced by the various accrued educational baggage/knowledge we pick up along the way.

And then, at a later date, possibly in a meditation or a prayer (god forbid ;-) they'll retroactively thank us....

Love to all,

Art T.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 08:26 PM

being a folksinger can be a day job.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 08:02 PM

REAL folksingers have day jobs.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 07:15 PM

I was thinking, though - Is my dentist not REAL? and the lady who cuts my hair? Also the man who came and fixed the TV antenna? AHH! I've been paying them REAL money!!

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 07:09 PM

I've played in all those places except prisons (nothing against prisons - just it hasn't happened) Add a shoe shop and a green grocers and a hardware shop....

Hooray I'm REAL! I'm REAL!

Also had to worry about gigs though. And I confess I've whinged about not being included in festivals. I love the festival scene. Can't afford it unless I'm paid expenses. Real Joy

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 05:14 PM

thank god for a few unreal folksingers

most of them worried about where their next gig was coming from. i never knew any of the real ones - they sound as though they wouldn't have understood the imperfect world that I live in.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 05:02 PM

Not bad Steve, but even folksingers need to eat.

I think what this country needs is another WPA. We can spend billions on tools to wage war, why not spend some of that on the arts - maybe with some understanding of culture we won't need the damn wars!

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Suffet
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 04:53 PM

Greetings:

This revived discussion reminds me of something I wrote in 2001 in a somewhat controversial thread called A Real Folksinger:

A real folksinger doesn't worry about bookings. A real folkinger creates his/her own venue. On street corners. In campgrounds. In parks. In schools. At parties. At family gatherings. Wherever and whenever the opportunity arises. A real folksinger plays in hospitals, and hospices, and old age homes. A real folksinger plays in prisons, and libraries, and bus stations, and at street fairs. And a real folksinger doesn't whine and bellyache and complain because such and such club or festival wouldn't have him/her.

I guess I should add train stations!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 01:53 PM

I found it interesting to read an interview with Lloyd Cole, a great crossover artist in the sense that he doesn't really fit into any regular category.
He was saying that he never used to enjoy playing live when he felt he was only promoting the latest album.
"It's only when I became a folk singer without the band that I started to enjoy it - there's a lot more sponteneity with the audience."

Now I listen to a fair bit of rock, pop, folk and suchlike and had never considered Cole to be a 'folk' singer in the sense many of us grew up to recognise. He is, however, an erudite storyteller and musician who could presumably be a folk singer in a sense.

I don't think folk's dead, I think that the definition is changing just as much as the music has done over the years.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 01:18 PM

Hi Debra,

Thanks for the note. For those who weren't there, Deb is talking about a showcase that Bill Hahn and I hosted on Friday evening. We did see some more traffic for Pat Wictor, Antje Duvekot and Red Molly - but attendance was still sparse considering the talent we had. I don't think we had more than 10 people in the room at one time. We expected that Modern Man, who normally have a large audience, would have drawn much better. Honestly, Bill and I are not upset for ourselves. We felt bad for the talent who gave outstanding performances for us. More people should have witnessed it. Luckily, we taped the event and as soon as we finish editing and getting final approval, we will broadcast our showcase. I know our listeners, the people who all of us are working so hard for, will appreciate the efforts of the artists.

There were some reasons why the event was sparsely attended. The location of the event was far away from the dozens of other showcases that were taking place at the resort.   I've even heard that many of the other showcases in the main part of the building had attendance problems. People had to make an effort and a long walk to come to ours. Also, since it was our first time hosting a showcase at such an event, we learned a few things. Bill and I need to do more publicity if we do this again.

I would like to thank Debra for the wonderful songs she shared with us.   To have the opportunity to share such wonderful music is the only thanks that Bill and I need!!

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: DebC
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 12:19 PM

sorry for the double whammy up there. Maybe one of the clones can remove my first posting :-)

Deb

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: DebC
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 12:17 PM

I want to thank Ron Olesko for that most eloquent and articulate piece of writing. I am not half as eloquent and articulate so bear with me on this.

One thing I see in the Traditional community and here on Mudcat is the total support that we show to each other. We attend each other's performances and we share the music among ourselves. The giving aspect in the traditional community is very evident. Now for the "rant":

I was honoured to have been asked by Ron and his radio co-hort Bill Hahn to be one of the artists to participate in WFDU's 25th Anniversary Celebration Showcase at NERFA. I felt that I was in some fantastic company with Modern Man, Joe Jencks, Chuck Mitchell, Red Moly and others. I did have to leave the showcase after Joe's set so I did not get a chance to see the other artists. Attendance for the first four acts (I went on after Modern Man in the #2 slot) was very poor. I do hope that Ron can assure me that it got better after I left.

I don't give a horses' patootie that folks weren't there to see me. If the room had been packed for Modern Man, then emptied for me and then filled up for Chuck Mitchell, that would have been fine and I would not be writing this.

But what makes me angry is that Ron and Bill have spent 25 years giving up their Sunday afternoons to present the music they love and to further OUR careers. I would assume that a majority of the artists that attended NERFA get airplay on WFDU "Traditions" and the lack of support from them is upsetting to me. That room should have been packed just to say "Thanks, Ron and Bill".

Ron, please tell me that attendance picked up after Joe's set. If not, I will apologise for all my performer peers that should have been there. We owe you and all the Folk DJs our undying gratitude because in many cases it's because of what you do that enables us to keep doing what we do.

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: DebC
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 12:02 PM

I want to thank Ron Olesko for that most eloquent and articulate piece of writing.

One thing I see in the Traditional community and here on Mudcat is the total support that we show to each other. We attend each other's performances and we share the music among ourselves. Now for the "rant":

I was honoured to have been asked by Ron and Bill Hahn to be one of the artists to participate in WFDU's 25th Anniversary Celebration Showcase at NERFA. I felt that I was in some fantastic company with Modern Man, Joe Jencks, Chuck Mitchell, Red Moly and others. I did leave the showcase after Joe's set so I did not get a chance to see the other artists. Attenda

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:28 AM

Obviously, the one who killed folk music was the same guy who killed Penis Rabinowitz! (P. R. was "Cock Robin's" real name. He changed it for practical reasons.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 10:21 AM

oops... I just realized that I misspelled Joe Jencks name.

I would also like to add artists like Antje Duvekott, Ned Massey, Rebecca Hall, Tim Grimm, Joe Crookston, Johnsmith, Rich Deans, Eric Balkey, Pat Wictor, We're About Nine and Red Molly - just to name a few people I ran into this past weekend.   Some are singer-songwriters, some play traditional music - but all of them are creating music that SHOULD be heard. Don't pass them by if you see their names at a venue near you!

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM

I just returned from NERFA - a conference for folk artists, media and "industry" people. The Northeast Regional Folk Alliance is an organization affiliated with the Folk Alliance. Approximately 700 people attended this event which was held at Kutshers Resort in the Catskills.

There were a number of people wringing their hands - moaning about lower attendance at clubs, decreasing listenership, fewer young people involved in the music and generally an older audience that is dieing out.   Peter Yarrow was there, and to paraphrase his comments at a workshop, he moaned that there were fewer songwriters creating songs of social content and fewer radio stations that would play that.

To all that, I can only answer as eloqently as the question deserves - horse shit. This truly angers me.

There are MORE opportunities for folk music to be heard then there was during the folk revival.   Sure, artists like Peter Paul & Mary and the Kingston Trio were scoring hits and more "folk" records were being sold, but the vast majority of radio stations were not playing folk music. There were commercial ventures that tried to make a fast buck, but you did not have the well organized coffeehouse and folk society circuit that exists today that WILL perpetuate folk music.   Back then, recording songs was an expensive proposition that required artists to sell their souls to record companies. (There were exceptions to that rule, notably Folk-Legacy.)   Today, artists have creative and financial control, and the process of recording makes it so much easier to share songs.

Folk music has always been a diverse "gumbo" of styles and sources. Today we are seeing young singer-songwriters that get a bad rap. I am guilty of adding to this myself when I make comments like singer-songwhiner. While there are songs and songwriters that are too self-absorbed, there are many songwriters who are writing exciting and important songs. Joe Jenks writes from the same pen that was shared by Woody Guthrie and Phil Ochs. I hear songwriters like Liz Carlisle and Anais Mitchell, both in their early 20's and writing with a maturity that Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan experienced. Put a fiddle in the hands of 20-something Jeremy Kittel and you know he has the respect of his elders, many of whom did not have the same poise and ability when they were his age.   Groups like the Duhks, the Mammals, Nickel Creek and many others are all young and exciting.   Folk music is in good hands.

With that said, there are a few areas that I think deserve some attention. We aren't singing as much as we used to. Folk music has become an exhibition sport instead of a participatory one.   I can't sing a lick, but I love to join in on a chorus. We need more open mics and song circles AND we need to encourage people to sing. Too often the folk community operates in cliques and makes newcomers feel unwelcome - sometimes for the simple reason that they need to use a song book to help them remember a song. Get over it!   Folk music isn't a gift that you can claim as your own - it is something that we all share in.

While at NERFA this past weekend, I also heard many people make reference to the "folk revival" - as if the music began being sung in the late 1950's.   That 7 or 8 year period was a commercial accident. The so-called folk revival began around the start of the 20th century when collectors really worked in earnest to save these songs. John Lomax's publications were a huge influence on the revival in this country. The Carter Family created the first folk radio shows and achieved success decades before the Kingston Trio began.

Sorry for my long rambles. I came back on Mudcat today and saw this thread pop up again, and it angered me.   I am so glad to hear stories like Janice's, and I know there are many more.   I attended a wonderful showcase on traditional music at NERFA. Unfortunately it was late on Saturday night and they stuck it in a distant corner of the hotel. The showcase included John Roberts (who looks wonderful and sounds better than ever!), Jeff Warner, Alison Lee Freeman, Mel Green and later people like Debra Cowan, Barbara Benn, Judith Zweiman and Stuart Markus joined in. While attendance was low, I was still encouraged because the people who attended included Mary Cliff, Rich Warren and myself.   Mary and Rich have HUGE audiences in comparison to my humble show and I know they have a deep respect for the tradition and will continue to offer it to their large audiences. So will I. The industry people at NERFA may have had other agendas on Saturday night, but I know the public that we serve continues to have a deep intrest and they want more. The finest music I heard all weekend came from that room, and I know the artists weren't upset by the low attendance. That wasn't the point. It's all about the music. It is in good hands.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Flash Company
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 10:03 AM

Speaking as a guy who once found himself leading a chorus of Irish songs at a wedding party at about half past midnight, I have to think that folk is where you find it. To expand on that a little, the bride was a rather beautiful Indian called Zarin, and the groom was a Swede called Lars!
Serious thought though, I have known in the past a few singers of Folk who 'went professional' and became parodies of themselves. It really should stay an amateur pastime.

FC

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM

Folk Music died 1965, 1966, 1967, etc.
Folk Music reborn November 2005, Rochester N.Y.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 08:53 AM

Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago. I'd been for a night out with a group of friends in Liverpool. We were waiting for a train on a freezing cold platform, in the dead of night. I thought that we were the only ones present and started singing. At that point a new voice joined in - a rather enebriated Scouser (how unusual for Liverpool where, of course, alcoholic drinks are practically unknown!!). The singing carried on, on the train, with other passengers joining in. The repertoire was mainly confined to Irish rebel songs but it was still one of those 'magic moments' referred to above ...

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Keef
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 04:57 AM

Killa Watt and Dessie Bell
I heard them do it.
Keef

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 04:17 AM

Well said, Janice.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 04:16 AM

I suppose ones relationship with folk music is like ones relationship with everything and everybody and that you love.

Sometimes it will disappoint, turn out to be something worse than you expected.

but the love is deep and sooner rather than later, you patch up your differences. You enjoy what you have, and realise there is much to be deeply thankful for.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 01:24 AM

Janice,

Thanks! I needed that!!

Art !!!

Subject: Please Read 'Who Killed Folk Music'
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:48 PM

I just read this thread. It is always interesting to me when someone revives an old thread. What stimulates someone to go back and comment on some thread that had been archived for years? The post that revived this really got my attention. If you have a moment, read the thread or scroll down to the 2005 entries for a great heartwarming story. I hope you ejnoy it as much as I did.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:42 PM

JAnice in NJ,   Now THAT is a good story! Thank you for making my day! I frequently ponder on living the moment. WHen I was younger I constantly missed the moment. I was always looking forward to what was ahead and always looking back later realizing I had missed "the moment" once again.   

You were living in the moment and I hope it was as magical for you as it was when I read your post a minute ago!   thanks again jimmyt

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Effsee
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 09:59 PM

'nuff said!

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 09:31 PM

I was waiting for Amtrak train #284 a few mornings ago, the 10:02 out of Rochester bound for New York's Penn Station, when two 18 or 19ish boys came up to me and asked, "Hey, guitar lady, can you play a train song?" Now you need to understand that I'm gray haired and nearly 60, but there must be something inviting about an old woman like me carrying a guitar case. So I said, "Sure," but only if you sing along with me." That must have taken the boys by surprise, because they said "OK." I then opened up my case, took out my Epiphone, fingered a G chord, and began to sing "This train is bound for glory, this train..." To my surprise, the two boys started singing along. Either they already knew the song, or else they were quick learners. Then, as if out of nowhere, other people of all ages joined in, some old, some young, some in-between, men, women, girls, boys, white, black, and various intermediate shades. A few were obviously immigrants, and I had no idea where they knew the song from, but they just did. Maybe we had 20 or 25 people singing, and at least an equal number looking on. We must have continued for 10 minutes, making up new verses or repeating the ones we already sang two or three times. We didn't stop until the voice on the PA announced that 284 was approaching the station. And when we did everyone applauded. In fact it was the loudest applause I have heard in years.

So please don't ask who killed folk music. It isn't dead yet, and once again I have been reminded of that simple truth.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Fortunato
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 11:09 AM

I believe that no one on their death bed ever said: "I wish I'd watched more television."

On the other hand, when on my death bed, sucking my last air, I hope my friends (like Big Mick) will sing me a song. (And a kiss from my sweet wife and a pint of ale would be good as well.)

Cheers, Chance

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 10:47 AM

Thanks, Little Hawk. Me being a singer/songwriter among other things. Actually, I spend a lot of time learning new songs, though. Far more than I do writing them. These days, I write an occasional song for my gospel group (very much in the tradition.) The rest of the time I'm doing what I find really irritating... sitting crouched over a tape player or CD trying to write the words to a song on a pad. Man, that's second only to changing guitar strings. But, I do it, and when it's all over, I'm glad that I did it.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: GUEST,mac
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM

like the three examples of wonderful use of English in folk song lyrics. My favourite is:

Strange news has come to town Strange news is carried Strange news flies up and down, That my love's married.......

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 10:25 PM

Is it to early to say "I've never heard a horse sing it"?

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:05 PM

Jerry - That has got to be one of the most memorable quotes I've ever seen on Mudcat! LOL!

- LH

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:50 PM

refresh

art

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:19 PM

(Ohhh!!! LH, spelling! ;-)

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 04:23 PM

Bingo, Jerry!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 04:17 PM

People who are too lazy to learn new songs write them. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:14 PM

I take it you mean that "people" are fundamentally lazy? Yes, well, they are...especially in a society that gears their jaded tastes to the notion of instant gratification on every trivial level possible, through relentless marketing and consumerism.

It is for the same reason that most people in North America would rather watch sports than play them, and would rather click their TV remote than read a book, and would rather play Nintendo than build a model kit.

Now, if you go to Cuba or a number of other simpler societies, you will find people who play sports, sing, play instruments, read, and generally are a whole lot less lazy than their couch potatoe counterparts in the arsenal of consumerism. Also, they are less bored. And also, astoundingly, they are far more relaxed and seem to have a lot more free time to enjoy themselves doing the above things!

I kid you not. I've been there. It used to be that way in America too, before it sold its soul to consumerism.

Folk music is indeed a holdover from an era when people actually had the patience and initiative to do things themselves, rather than watch or listen to someone else do it.

- LH

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Terch
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:04 AM

Who killed Folk Music? We--e-ll. Uhmmm.. Folk did really. Folk are fundementally lazy and folk music is about mutual entertainment among consenting parties. When it comes to the choice between learning and/or practicing a new song/tune it is left to the tiny few, the rest of us swich on the tele, radio or whatever.

Subject: RE: Who Killed Folk Music?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:05 AM

Yeah, all you gotta do is go to the folk festivals, and you will see it's far from dead. The best thing about folk is...it's so non-commercial that the music business ignores it most of the time! Better yet, TV ignores it. Anything that is ignored by TV has almost got to have lasting value in this world, given the fact that it needs no advertising to be viable...

- LH