BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:18 AM

and in Manchester - Moss Side is a real no go area for a white person on his / her own

I just happened to call in the Clarence, Moss Side, on Saturday night, Josh. I was on my my own. I am white. I am still here...

Is this another example of you believing everything you hear in the press? Is it because your father is a retired Fleet Street editor? The Sun by any chance?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 01:54 AM

Guest Josh is trying to make amends, IMO. Why not give him a chance?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

GUEST Josh-Students don't pay council tax, so stop bloody lying!
you reckon you were in the race riots, and the Manchester IRA bomb, looks like youve been really unlucky!
Were you in The Kings Cross Fire, The Zebrugge Ferry disaster, and the Hillsborough Stadium as well?

I think your full of shit, and just trying to make trubble.

so get lost.john

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:34 PM

That post was just by me, forgot to type my name at the top! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:33 PM

OK smartarse, I'll be more specific, I live in an area 3 miles from Oldham, called Saddleworth, which is right on the fringe of the Peak District.

I am a student but if ur parents aren't well off, which mine certainly aren't, I have to WORK for my money and so pay taxes (including council taxes for the rent on my house) on what I earn, For four years before now I worked part time 20-30 hours a week in a bar in Oldham or in Birmingham, where I study. However this year I am on full time industrial placement working for Lockheed Martin. I just didn't want to tell everyone, everything about me. But there you go. My only ignorance was not noticing the type of website, I posted this thread within half an hour of seeing the website. A hasty judgement it would seem.

Has this resolved your quarrels?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:28 PM

Noted, thanks McG.

By the way, has anyone noticed what Brits have done for local culture in some of the tourist areas of Spain and Greece?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:59 PM

I told you that yonks ago.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:47 PM

So, GUEST Josh, you are a student,going to uni before joining the RAF. So how come you also say you work hard, earn your wages, and pay your taxes. And if you were really a student and lived in Oldham, you would not say you lived near the Peak District, which is somewhere else all together. And you also say you hadnt noticed that Mudcat was for people interested in folk and blues.
There are a number of other strange inconsistencies in this guest's posts. I personally wouldnt waste any time arguing with him, I dont think Josh the naive student exists.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:45 PM

That Niemoeller quote - here's what it says on the site I checked it from - This quotation is often cited incorrectly. The exact phrasing was supplied by Sibylle Sarah Niemoeller von Sell, Martin Niemoeller's wife. The remark was made in reply to a student's question, "How could it happen?"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Albion
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:39 PM

Well, shepherdlass, I suppose it's less the soupy pop idol stuff that I am worried about, so much as the mindless celebrity culture that seems to preoccupy so many people to the exclusion of most things that are worthwhile. Then they wail about immigrants undermining our culture...

With regard to the soul singer you mentioned, I think quite a lot of people have probably been fooled (or are determinedly deluding themselves into thinking) that the BNP are not racist. A friend of mine from Yorkshire in a recent discussion we had about the whole worrying topic of fascism mentioned an acquaintance of his from work, a 'nice bloke', who said that he "voted for the BNP because they seemed the only party to have the interests of the ordinary Englishman at heart". The fellow appeared genuinely shocked and remorseful when my mate told him the party was racist. There's one born every minute.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:05 PM

Albion, that was a seriously well belanced, well maintained statement from you and it got me thinking a lot. Well done sir!

After that 'inside the BNP' documentary I a fair few people agreed with the critical elements that the leader was saying and as my father put it, a retired editor of a Fleet Street newspaper put it, if they did not have a thuggish element and weren't so extremist, they would be a getting a lot more votes.

Focusing a little, Brucie - as I said a little earlier, the chances of me voting again for the BNP are minimal, as I realised how extreme the vote was.

Of course I would help any person who was in dire need from a country's perspective, condencing my view into its purest form: Look after number one. We should sort ourselves out before we start giving it to others. The slums we have in this country are appauling, inner parts of London are a mess, and in Manchester - Moss Side is a real no go area for a white person on his / her own. Crime continues to increase, poverty widen, and health service crisis continue to loom.

The Sudan crisis - well harshly putting it, there is always some country in Africa in trouble and it is always the west that has to come to the rescue, namely America, but they never get any thanks, and then they get blamed for persecuting Muslims... aren't most African nations populated by a majority of Muslims??? Just a note, my aunt works as a teacher in Tanzania, one of the poorest african nations.

Weelittledrummer - that is all very true. I had high intentions of joining the RAF to serve my own personal part to our country but I was told go to uni first. After university, I am most likely to join the air services.

I only posted on here as at first, it just seemed like a discussion forum which actually, for once, had a group of relatively intelligent people. I didn't realise at the time that its main orientation was blue music etc.

Sorry for pissing anyone off but this is a current and deadly topic in the UK and many people in the UK are getting sick of the current government.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: shepherdlass
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 02:58 PM

Fully agree with Albion's bottom line, and the need to reclaim a sense of Englishness back from the right wing extremists who've hijacked the notion.

Not so sure about this homogeneous pop culture Albion mentions - did anyone see World Idol???? There is no way our manicured and manufactured pop stars (well, Will Young) looked or sounded anything like those from the rest of Europe, Australia or the Middle East. Even in production line pop there are little national quirks that get through. That's why the arguments of the racist little-Englanders are so laughable - nobody could do a better job of destroying our wonderfully mongrel British identity than the BNP and their fellow travellers, with their stupid concepts of national purity.

Incidentally, this is really narking me now because I know of a soul/blues (yes, music of black origin!) singer who recently stood for BNP and was SURPRISED that his band (mostly first generation Caribbean and Asian immigrants) walked out on him. Are some of us Brits really stupid enough to think BNP aren't racist?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:31 AM

McG, many thanks for corrections in the Niemoeller lines I quoted. Have you seen them published anywhere, or have you any other source? Sounds like he was a sterling guy, anyway.

Keith A, it is utter rubbish to say that some countries control their borders but the UK does not. Even for travel into and out of the rest of the European Union, the UK - alone among all the EU countries, I believe - requires passport checks.

Moreover your point about population density is disingenuous, or at least naive. Certainly the UK ranks high on that measure - behind only Japan, I think. But try relating populations to usable resources - most critically water - and the picture changes dramatically.

The bottom line is exactly as Albion put it at the end of his post above.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Albion
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 10:33 AM

Erm...well, I always said that I would never get into another debate on Mudcat (given the level to which it has seemed to sink recently), but I do feel that I have something to contribute here.

First off, I hate fascists like poison for a couple of reasons --first, and biggest, is their scapegoating of minorities, whether religious, ethnic or sexual. I'm sure we are all aware of what happens when they are allowed to get their way in this respect, so I don't need to expand on that. Secondly, and a tiny annoyance by comparison with the first, but rarely talked about, is the way they hijack what they view as the dominant culture and make it seem as though being of that culture implies agreement with their noxious views. It doesn't help that the left, of which I count myself a slightly beleagured member, falls for this in a big way. Thus in England anyone who expresses an interest in English culture or heritage (which, as pointed out by other catters, is a beautifully diverse thing) tends to get labelled racist by the left. This kind of thing can frustrate people over time. It also means that most of the stuff on English culture out there comes across as Conservative at best and Nazi at worst, since people who are on the left (and more diversity-minded) get scared off the subject. Then English culture gets perceived further as an exclusively "white" domain, intensifying the problem on both left and right. It's ironic that, by ignoring the contributions of non-white people to English culture, the left also ends up minimising what refugees and other immigrants have given us. Of course mentioning this would be an appeal to self-interest, and ignores the fact that our wider loyalty to other human beings should require compassion instead of whingeing, but I think it would help.

The argument that asylum seekers are responsible for English culture being derided and unrecognised is bollocks. We ourselves have done that. If we are stupid enough to buy into a homogenous pop culture that obscures our own cultures we are bound to end up wondering who we are. We could assert our own identities any day just by switching off the pop music stations and trash TV for a bit.

One other thing --people who say that "the English did x and y in the Empire and got a lot out of it, now they're getting theirs" are being a bit hateful too. When you come from the working-class, in which the options until recent times were very narrow (work in a factory for a starvation wage, become a soldier and be expendable, work down the mine, etc) you realise that the racist ethic that supported the exploitation of colonial peoples also supported the exploitation of the English working classes. This is what happens when you have an aristocracy based on notions of genetic superiority. The fact remains that most of the English are of working-class extraction originally, and most of the people whose families really benefitted from the Empire (members of the Establisment at the time) are well off enough that they don't have to worry about things like getting somewhere to live. Some of them are in the Tory party or worse, spouting polemic about asylum seekers making it harder to get accommodation...

The bottom line is that anyone who would vote for the BNP, especially after the horrifying BBC documentary "Inside the BNP", is either fundamentally racist or incredibly simple-minded.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM

Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion?
if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome.

Non UK folks, BNP is an extreemist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue here and will be an election issue. The leader of our main opposition party has accused the government of losing control of our borders.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:32 PM

Josh this is so depressing for old guys like us. You see our parents when they weren't much older than you are now had a really shit time of it - keeping our country safe for folks like yourself to live in a country where its all right to disagree with the current government. I mean a really shit time....risking their lives every day, away from their loved ones, seeing their friends butchered in front of their eyes.

And the people they were fighting against were broadly speaking the same ones that you are voting for. there is so much to be proud of in our country.

Next time you are in town take a look at that war memorial. those young guys died so that you could enjoy the freedoms that the BNP are conspiring to take away from our society.

Its not all your fault. I've seen some of the stuff you come up with on the pages of the Daily Mail and right wing papers that are ostensibly respectable. But you know these guys ( the Rothemeres etc) supported Mussolini almost up the war being declared. just because they are a disgrace to our nation ( and they are stinking rich and get away with it) doesn't change the fact that your country's honour was redeemed with the blood of of young men - many of whom had bugger all stake in the wealth of the country.

I lost my Dad this year. he was in the Irish guards fighting in ww2 - had nightmares all his life afterwards about the sound of spandau machine guns. Don't throw his legacy in the gutter by consorting with fascists.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:27 PM

Josh,

If racism is wrong and you vote for a party that is racist, what should one assune from that?

I this is a thread about people being able to go where they want to or need to, that is different.

Canada has quotas as does almost every country in the world. However, people fleeing from despots, or people who need a safe haven from persecution should be welcomed by every country in the world. I am nor so naive that I don't recognize the facts of demographics and what major population shifts can do to countries. But let me ask this: Would you sman your door in the face of a man who needs to feed his kids or they will starve to death? The whole friggin' world is doing that to the Sudan right now. If they were your children, how would you answer?

RSVP, Josh.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:29 PM

Racism is wrong, I agree whole heartedly with that. At the time, I was severly aggravated and in human nature, was looking for a scapegoat.

But there are several problems reaking in this country which simply won't be addressed by the current government, and this will cause a change in our ways.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:43 PM

Beardedbruce

"If this is reason enough to disagree with someone"

1) Because he supports racism, and because I will not get drawn into an argument about the relative merits of racism with anyone, the answer to that part of your question is yes.

2) This is your first post to this thread and that's all ya gotta say? My reasons for not liking Mr Josh were made claer earlier. He supports a racist party. When Keith said, "If you disagree with Josh, say why.", I responded in the manner I did because I thought the statement didn't deserve a serious answer. OK, fellow?

Keith. If you don't support the Party, my apologies to you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM

Keith,

Look again at the title of the thread.

He calls the BNP, "thugs" in his first post, it is certainly clear, from other things I have read here, that the BNP is racist. I think Josh deserves to be told that he is a racist, He is supporting a racist organization for racist reasons. I think he should be told that in the starkest and most stident way until he realizes and accepts his obvious folly and retracts it. I don't say this for myself. I say this for him and his neighbours. It's time he learned that he can't look at a whole class or race of people through the lens of a couple of bad experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:26 PM

Brucie, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Not my party, I have none.I was comparing how this country
deals with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, with how others, for instance yours does. Surely the relative merits could be considered reasonably. I hope so, because I would be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

brucie:

" because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. "

If this is reason enough to disagree with someone, can any of us EVER agree on anything?


I find a large number of "bigots" here, at all points of the political spectrum. ANYONE who is not willing to listen to another's viewpoint, but insists on presenting his/her own qualifies.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

I personally like fuck off bastard...so fuck off you racist prick!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:16 PM

OK, Keith, here ya go. I disagree with Josh because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. I agree that you have little to contribute to the discussion, so stop.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM

I am not a BNP person!
I have little to contribute to the discussion. It is not an something I have given much thought to.
I just noticed that Josh put forward an opinion and invited discussion, and the response was not a careful refuting of his points, but to call him names.
I would like to follow a reasoned debate on this because I still have an open mind.
If you disagree with Josh, say why. Fuck off bastard is a little negative.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: shepherdlass
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:51 PM

Josh, Please try translating your unfortunate experience (and, come on, there are a hell of a lot of Brits who drive uninsured out there) and your justifications to Germany c1937 or Alabama c1960. I'm sure most people who voted pro-Nazi and anti-Civil Rights also felt perfectly justified and non-racist. Guess what? They were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:39 PM

What you do or don't appreciate is not too high on my list of concerns. I don't like racists, regardless their arguments on behalf of racism. GFY.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:24 PM

I do not appreciate unconstructive comments from people, but very much relish people giving well formed opinions here. Thankyou.

D Simpson, you are quite right and the odds of me ever voting for the BNP again are very low. I do appreciate there are as many bad white people which is why I am not racist as some of you may believe. At the time, I was living in Birmingham in an area where white people were the minority and I was getting sick of living there as I was made to feel so unwelcome by the neighbours who happened to have a habit of using the white people in the area for target practice with their air guns. Not fun.

For the record, if I was to move to another country, I would expect NO help from them in supporting me. I would use what money I had to set up and I would get ANY job available until I could find something more suitable.

DtG: It is of my opinion that hard working and poor minorities are the ones that get screwed over in this country.

Keith A of Hertford, ur comment at 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM was spot on. I'm trying to achieve something constructive here and give people the opportunity to help me see another way.

On the subject of the Irish, I would gladly pass Northern Ireland back to Ireland but the inhabitants of that nation WANT TO STAY WITH US, so that is what they shall do, despite the cost of many soldiers lives. I was in Manchester City centre when the bomb went off so I have a direct POV on that one.

I do appreciate the culture different nations bring to us but it's a simple shame that they segregate themselves from the nation of the UK.

I found this Mudcat website through yahoo search engine when I was looking for info about oil reserves, oddly enough.

I am an ordinary Joe but if you do not believe - fine. And maybe I have been influences by their propaganda and marketing, but I would testify it is more through MY OWN NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES.

Keith A - again u made a valid point later on. Perhaps I would be more specific to say I would like better border control. We should look after our own, properly, before helping others. We are totally incapable of looking the population we have so far, without letting more and more in! Consider this, the people trying to get through the channel tunnel at their own accord have passed through all the other European countries before reaching the UK, they did not claim Asylum at the first place they arrived at (which is what you're meant to do) so they obviously are finding something great about the UK. Which I do not mind. But these people slip into the underworld and can never be traced.

In conclusion, it is the way in which immigration is controlled and the power the Police have to be changed.

In general, I believe harsher punishment for major crimes, Murder and Rape being the big ones, should be increased, you could kill a guy and you get ten yrs, that is bang out of order. And then, if you kill a guy who is robbing ur house, in pure self defence, he's in your house remember! You then get sent to Jail. And oh, the git then sues u for damages! This has happened in the UK!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, depsite all the mess Labour have made for this country (hmm, higher council tax rates, poorer NHS, more and more stealth taxes, a war in the middle east which had no justification....) they will probably be voted in again.

Keep it coming people.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:44 PM

I recall a story that was told by a woman in eastern Canada. She was black, and when asked by someone what island she came from--a reference to Haiti or Jamaica, etc--she responded, "Montreal."

Keith A and Josh: I am trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't stick my head that far up my ass. This party you are supporting advocates that all people who are not white be returned to their country of origin. Doesn't that sound just a bit racist to you? And you have the disingenuousness to say, "There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?" What's to discuss. Read what your Party advocates. And please stop with the crap. You won't get too many takers here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:26 PM

Well there are plenty of asylum seekers here in Hull, but there is far more trouble caused by ignorant young white drunken idiots who were presumably raised in this country from good old Anglo Saxon stock. I wish that they would all fuck off...

And Josh, are you sure that you can tell that an asylum seeker is an asylum seeker as he drives past in his car wearing his gold. Or is he a third generation person of Asian origin who has done very well for himself through hard work and application. Let's face it, pal, you are a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM

Josh-how did you find this site?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:24 PM

I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so!

The Asians aren't from Ireland, Scotland or Wales either, so that make them English! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:07 AM

The issue is whether a nation should be allowed to control entry over its borders. Most other countries do. We do not. Some think that is OK. Some think it will lead to tension and unrest. It is an issue.

Consider population density. How many countries have a higher one? this leads to pressure on resources such as housing. We have a housing crisis. Ordinary workers can not afford homes.

We have to make special provisions for nurses, teachers and firefighters or we would have none in our towns. ordinary workers are stuffed.

Assylum seekers have to be provided with homes and so are placed before others in the provision of social housing. I am not saying this is wrong, just that it inevitably causes tensions.

Most countries arrest illegal immigrants. We do not anymore. Recently near Hertford a number were caught when they ran from a van. The police gave them the fare to go to a reception centre and sent them on their way. I'm not saying that is wrong, but others do it differently.
I have heard some British people describe their experience in USA when they were found to have minor Visa infringements. They were held IN CHAINS for over 24 hours and then expelled.

There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:54 AM

The actual words Pastor Martin Niemoeller wrote were:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

(And here is a page about him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:35 AM

OK, what's the issue, Keith?

Josh, if you are as decent as you claim to be, you would soon be sickened by the attitudes you would find predominating in the BNP. But maybe you will think again, and take to heart Dave Simpson's words above.

Here are a few lines I saw in a holocaust museum. I know nothing about the guy who wrote them (a Pastor Neumuller) but they are a useful reminder of what can happen when the likes of the BNP are left unchallenged.

First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the homosexuals,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a homosexual.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me.
And there was no-one left
To speak for me.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:27 AM

"..the arguments put forward by the originator of this thread are extremely typical of the propaganda BNP put forward. I simply don't believe that it is an "ordinary joe" making a justification...."

Cllr has said here precisely what I was thinking. And I note that all of the previous postings under the name "GUEST,Josh" over the past four years so have been on music threads, and read very much as if they were by an American, which this one clearly isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:22 AM

"Do you think the Irish have a right to want the English out? I'll bet you think Iraqis have a right to not want the U.S. in their land. So how can you — and all your ilk, if I'm guessing right about he basis for you name-calling — support the "national struggles" of the Irish against the English and Iraqis against Americans, and then condemn the English for getting upset what an alien culture imposes itself on them — and demands that they pay for it?"

Interesting point ddw, but there is quite a big difference in the situations you describe and the one faced in Britain with asylum seekers i.e asylum seekers are not an army armed to the hilt imposing their will on an entire nation through occupation.

Asylem seekers are not imposing their culture on Britain, they are bringing it with them as many other peoples who have settled in Britain have done before them which makes Britain the diverse place that it is, and in my oppinion, we are all the better for it. Most Britons on this messageboard are here because we value our music and culture and want to see them kept alive to florish. We know what our culture is and I for one don't feel it's being threatened by asylum seekers or any other immigrant who settles here. It is under threat from the majority of Britons who don't give a stuff about their own culture and sneer and laugh at the very mention of folk music or morris dancing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM

Is it not possible to question the present immigration policy without being called racist?
Can we not exchange views without name calling?
There is an issue here. Why are some determined to stifle it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Tam the bam (nutter)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:17 AM

How can you vote BNP and say that you're not racist, of course you are if were not a racist then you wouldn't vote for a RACIST party.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:49 AM

re the what is English comment

Ask someone fron Scotland, Wales or Ireland what they are, so why can't I be English? In my dictionary English is belonging to England and an Englishman is from England.
I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so! If you are saying there is no such thing as England and English people don't excist then you are being racist, which I don't think for one minute you are.
The term English is one that Tony Blair and the Labour Party shuns away from using, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:46 AM

Sorry Josh, I misunderstood you when I said you were probably not a racist but misled. After the outpouring on Aug 13 at 6:19PM I would like to change that. At worst you are probably a racist and at best stupid to not only believe the propaganda but spout the same drivel.

As I said at the end of my last post. My father was a political refugee from the communist regime which took over Poland at the end of WW2. He arrived as a university educated son of an accountant. He took work in coal mines and on building sites and established a family and a fair life. He was one of the hundreds of thousands like him that did.

Does anyone hear about the thousands of Kosovans, Bosnians and Iraqis that do the same now? No. Did you hear the one about the Serb with the Rolex watch? Bet you did. Did you hear about the Afgani doctor who took work in factory at £2 an hour to feed his family? No? Probably heard about the Pakistani who bought Porche while on benefits though...

Yes, please leave this country. Go to where hard working and poor minorities are persecuted instead. You may get a better picture.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:41 AM

Josh, just think of the consequences of your actions. If the BNP were to be voted in as the government of the UK, how long would it be before they called for complete repatriation of all 'immigrants' and not just a halt on asylum seekers? How long before discrimination against gays was completely acceptable? Would Jews be able to go about their lawfull business without fear?

The BNP are doing a very good job of masking their thuggish image by having 'ordinary' men and women stand as candidates in elections - they even had an Asian supporter on one of their recent election broadcasts (very clever!), but the rank and file BNP supporter is still a thug no matter how much the BNP publicity machine tries to sanitise them. The BNP are using people like you who think (erroneously) that they are not racists, just put upon patriots who want the best for their country and their fellow citizens. You are just playing into their hands by believing that they wouldn't go further than just stopping asylum seekers. Their ultimate goal is for an all white Britain.

You say you come from Oldham and you have had bad experiences with local Asian youths and asylum seekers. I live in a predominantly white area, and we're having a lot of problems with the local yobbish youths, none of which are Asian or black, just good old Anglo Saxons, who get away with terrorising the locals, being cruel to animals, taking drugs, binge drinking and doing the odd bit of vandalism and arson for good measure. The police seem powerless to stop them. Just where are they going to be sent back to? Saxony? Scandinavia?

Some people are just blinkered by the colour of someones skin, and like to overlook the fact that their is good and bad in all races and creeds, and are willing to scapegoat the ones who stick out most because of their colour. It's sad that in this day and age this still happens, and unfortunately Josh, you are carrying on this nasty tradition.

You may have convinced yourself that you're not racist, but you're voting for a racist party who are using ordinary, decent, frightend people for their own ends. Just like the Nazis did. Don't be fooled.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:53 AM

Oh, joy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:53 AM

That person is not me, but another example of a similar situation. I am a student and live in Oldham. I am not here to recruit I just thought I'd make my point.

About me doing something... well I could never make a good politician plus there are even bigger things to worry about that I am putting my efforts into - renewable energy sources.

As for the guest thing, I'll get that sorted as soon as I figure how to and have some time this evening!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM

"Thank's for your support."

This appears at the bottom of the page that one is taken to by the link a few posts up--good eye Guest. Seems they love Britain but have difficulties with the apostrophe. I know we all make errors when we post, but ya figure that in an ad that introduces the Party to people, they might have wanted to get that sort of thing looked at by someone competent. Jaysus.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:01 AM

Yep, And I LIKE the way SHE plays the accordion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: pdq
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

She is cute, smart and plays the accordian. You are a lucky man, Jack. (er, two out of three ain't bad, really...)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:52 PM


There is no Josh folks...
Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory.

That's what Carol said when this thread first appeared.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/__121b_sf6Ml0n1p93sfzJxgvsOZUd4lnnfHNeG9I8DN0byXK+K2ecuxWL2AA==

There is no Josh folks...read this site, sorry I can't do the clicky business. Does it sound familiar? Even down to the cars and phones?

Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory. Can't imagine how that could have happened, what with all the love and tolerance being shown here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:59 PM

Josh, you are not seemingly a bastard, but you are a guest, which is tantamount around here. I'm pleased that you can rise above the bilious outpourings here and still continue to state your case.

My counsel is to become active in mainstream politics, not the tin-pot parties like the BNP and the MRLP. The saying 'Some grin and bear it, others smile and change it' applies here. He's not my cuppa, but that Michael Howard was opining about challenging the political correctness only this week. Our own Cllr is of the same hue, and whilst I don't share his exact politics, I count him as a personal friend and drinking buddy, and he is an effing good example of someone who is making a difference by actually doing something rather than saying 'something should be done'.

So, become or state your membership here, get active in politics with a social conscience, and listen to mooman, as he is a Buddhist, and a very incisive thinker. And enjoy living in this wonderful country.