BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 PM

Just incase nobody called Josh a bastard, I would like to rectify that.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:52 PM

GUEST, Josh,

I didn't call you a bastard. I told you to eat shit. FYI.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:41 PM

ddw-YOU mentioned the spelling, not me, you also suggested that I have a poor vocabulary, you also stated you have made a living through writing english for over 30 years, yet as I pointed out, you use incorrect words in your posts!
Whats that saying about greenhouses and stones?

Anyway, I've better things to do with my time, than argue with racists and idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:12 PM

There are good and bad in every community and that goes for assylum seekers as much as it does for any other group. However the overwhelming majority of such are genuine and the actions of a few should not be used to punish the rest. My brother in law does a lot of work with various groups in the Coventry area and the vast majority of them have very good reasons to be here and do not abuse the system at all. As for the BNP they take examples of the less honest and quote them to fuel blatant racism and if you choose to vote for them you may just as well wear a black shirt and swastica and have done with it! I could quote examples of the behaviour of so called 'British' people to the same end if I chose to but choose rather to quote the Jackson Five 'One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch'

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:19 PM

I am quite stunned how people can call me a bastard which is in itself a very quick judgement. I do consider myself very fortunate to have been born in the UK and appreciate it everyday.

But I do believe a great deal of the people who have commented here are massive hypocrites (let's all not get picky about spelling). I would surely enjoy it, if each person saying it's is wrong to vote BNP if they found themselves with the pleasure of living next to an asylum seeker estate. Where your house gets broken into and your car robbed. Then you see these people parading round in highly expensive, modified cars, wearing gold and not able to (or rather choose not to) speak English.

Then you lose your job at say, a call centre or factory, because they are willing to work below minimum wage rates and ignore paying income taxes or any other taxes to the government.

Oh and then, you find your daughters and female teenagers are being groomed for sex by asian men, who are tied into betrothed marriages set by their parents. These are the facts of where I live. Come and live where I live. I had the unfortunate pleasure of being caught in the race riots of 2000 in Oldham, but I will readily admit, this was both white and asian teens, proving they are 'men.'

White people are as bad as Asians. I would happily vote for a less extreme party, but the options avilable are useless. The Conservatives lack drive and the Liberal Democrats are too EU orientated. And briefly on that subject, I believe there are many benefits to ebing with the EU but so far we have given far much more than we have received. There lacks unity.

I am glad many have replied to my topic. It is very provoking but something which everyone tries to bury and be politically correct about.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:18 PM

He didn't get the name of the party wrong. He was using the name that alot of us on this side of the pond employ, as it describes them better and lets everyone who has never heard of the BNP get a rough idea of their manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM

What exactly IS is your English identity, Burntstump? In fact what is England, given that it is not an administrative region of the UK and neither is it a sovereign state?

Maybe you've got John Betjemen's splendid prayer in mind:

....Keep our Empire undismembered,
Guide our Forces by thy hand,
Gallant blacks in far Jamaica,
Honduras and Togoland.
Protect them Lord in all their fights,
And even more, protect the whites.

Think of what our nation stands for,
Books from Boots and country lanes.
Free speech, free passes, class distinction,
Democracy and proper drains.
Lord, put beneath thy special care
One eighty-nine Cadogan Square....

If you wanted a world in which anyone from the next parish was a stranger, I'm afraid you've arrived in the wrong century. Around the world, countless millions are waking up to the iniquities around them, and doing exactly what Norman Tebbitt (your mentor, by any chance?) told them to do. That is, they are getting on their bikes. And even if every last one of us goes to defend our borders, they won't be stopped. They see a better world for their kids, they are determined to go for it, and I wish them well.

ddw, it's a bit feeble to sneer that someone is unarmed when you've just picked a fight with him and lost.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:09 PM

John from Hull — good catch on the imminently-eminently thing. I never said I was perfect. The "everything word" slip shouldn't have been too hard to figure out, even for you. I changed what I was saying and forgot to erase the "-thing" part.

But I wouldn't be too smug if I were you. You didn't seem know the name of the party under discussion and you don't seem to know that there are spelling differences between the U.K. and North America. "Recognize" and "realized" are the accepted spellings for more than 300,000,000 people on this side side of the pond.

Gadzooks, man, you fight unfairly. You try to pick a battle of wits knowing full well I won't fight an unarmed man....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:11 PM

Feel free to create one!

According to the Guardian article, what he said was:

"But any notion of national superiority or fierce independence while pouring scorn on our neighbours is profoundly unchristian and wrong." And that he is suspicious of "a white dominated simple world of Englishness where pounds and not euros, gallons and not litres, reign supreme".


It's an interesting definition that makes that a racist remark.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:01 PM

It may be interesting to read peoples comments if we started a new thread on this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:43 AM

According to the Guardian, he does not want to "ban it because it is racist" , he thinks it ought not to be sung in Church because the first verse in particular is over-nationalistic, placing country above God. Whether you agree or not, it seems perfectly proper for a Bishop to be concerned about such things.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:33 AM

what about this C of E Bishop who wants to ban the hymn I vow for thee my country because he thinks it is racist?

It seems to me that we are losing our English identity.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:58 AM

Josh or may I call you bastard - fuck off
opps nearly went off on one then - but alas I'm quite sure that is exactly what you want. Crawl back into your sewer with the rest of the vermin (the vermin wont like it though)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

McGrath rightly refers to British rule in the many countries they held in their sway, I am reading "William Russell, Special Correspondent, of The Times", his report on the Indian mutiny reveals the racism and intolerance of the British ruling class in India.
This was par for the course in all of the countries her or his majesties writ ran, as McGrath says "what goes round comes around"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:53 AM

In Germany, where they also have many more road deaths than us, they set up a wrecked car by the side of the road at the site of the accident and erect sinister signs by it 'Just waiting for you...' etc

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:52 AM

Yes don't come back.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:51 AM

The problem is, the BNP voices fears many feel, but no-one reading their literature or listening to them can fail to see their true colours.
There is a particular problem with Islam. It is, as I suppose all religions must be, completely non-democratic. Islamic countries have no distinction between church and state, so are inherently non-democratic - there is no such thing as a democratic Islamic state. All we see of Islamic countries is a series of states where there is no real creation of wealth other than by exploitation of natural resources, the majority of the population are kept poor, uneducated and in fear, where women are routinely subjugated, misused or sexually mutilated, and where the system perpetuates itself by means of mullahs shouting invective, and a religious police. Other religions and views are often ruthlessly suppressed, and there is usually massive corruption. When we see people in this country advocating the move towards such a state, it's little wonder we become uneasy...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:42 AM

ddw/David, the fatal weakness in your argument is your naive belief that your cash and cushy lifestyle was "hard earned."

If guest Josh is sick of the UK, as he says he is, I hope he go off to one of the countries that asylum seekers are coming from where he will soon see that his and ddw's relative wealth is not hard-earned but results, as Guest John O 'Lennaine said, from an accident of birth.

Try being a child in India, the pair of you. Try being sold off at nine-years-old to a factory hundreds of miles from home, so that your family can survive. Try being chained, with four other kids, 24/7, to a block of concrete that can be moved around only by the five kids together and where the working day is 14 hours in conditions of extreme heat and, sometimes, extreme humidity.

And remember while you're there, that the differences in working conditions and standards of living you will experience are in large part a consequence of harsh trade barriers imposed on poor countries.

And don't come back.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:27 AM

The problem now is the BNP are seeking votes by pretending to be respectable and implying that it is OK to vote BNP as a protest vote. If the main three political parties are thought to be failing then people do try to find an alternatives. While I might accept, and I mean Might accept, that some people vote BNP out of either ignorance or frustration with the alternatives, the arguments put forward by the originator of this thread are extremly typical of the propaganda BNP put forward I simply don't believe that it is an "ordinary joe" msaiking a justifacation. Because of my work on special cases for the Crown prosecution service Im very familiar with the style and themes that these people put forward.

an example
A typical trick is to find a local pub or community buliding and say that its going to be knocked down and a mosque has been planned instead. when a lout tried this particular lie on me I told him it was a fabrication and he beligerently asked me how I could deny it as he had it on good authority. I told him the truth that I was on the planning commitee and I bloody well knew it was a lie.
This thread was started to try and gain support for BNP. That is the bottom line. Finally If it looks like a duck walks like a duck and goes quack ITS A DUCK

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:55 AM

"And then they came for me"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:39 AM

The BNP use the age old tactic of blaming someone else for all our ills. As did the National Socialist party in Germany did in the 1930's. To that extent it certainly is a racist organisation and uses race issues to further its own ends remorselesly. The popular press use the same tactic to promote their own sales.

The unfortunate thing is that lots of people begin to believe the spin by both polititians and the press and the end result can be as dreadful as what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany. You are probably not a Racist, Josh. You have just been misled by people who have their own agenda.

Try to get your own facts and figures and form your own opinions rather than believing everything you read. There are good and bad in all races and religions. There are as many if not more British born 'scroungers' than there are refugees receiving benefits. And us Brits have less of an excuse. There are as many if not more Christian thugs as there are Islamic loudmouths. But they do not sell newspapers.

Always remember that it easier to blame someone else for your troubles than it is to blame yourself. Political refugees are the current target but what happens when we get rid of them and the country is still is a bad state? We then get rid of Blacks? Then Catholics? Then people called Josh???

Vote for who you want to but make that decision on reason rather than hysteria. And don't expect not to be tarred with the same brush as the company you keep!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome
(Who's Father was a refugee from Poland after WW2)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 02:18 AM

The BNP have been proven to have connections to other white supremacist movements, their own members have been recorded spouting some very nasty things. They have appealed to people without the wit or intelligence to get past page three of the Sun or the soccer results and by their very actions have proven themselves a bunch of thugs led by a bunch of thugs.

If someone is sponging of the state then that is wrong and colour or creed is not the issue. Ditto when stirring up religeous intolerance and hatred.

Many immigrants to the UK bring skills and knowledge we need, or even doing jobs considered too menial. Many do come to get away from repressive regimes and that is OK by me. The fact that many are not well educated is not their fault. Often countries with totalitarian rule used education as a carrot dangled to make people conform or the poor sods cannot afford it or do not have access.

The caucasians in the UK are certainly not pure blooded but a great diversity of origins from Scandinavian, German, Dutch, French et al, plus a good mix of Scottish, Irish, Welsh.

Add to that the mix of of the non caucasian people that have come to the UK it adds to a great diversity which enriches our country.

Without the influence of all these peoples, their culture and their stories we would not have the diversity of music and art we enjoy today.

I doubt many Asian people ('friends'?) do actually understand your vote, especially as they have been on the receiving end of BNP literature and thuggery. They are proably being very polite and more cultured by not calling you a racist. When Asian people smile when being told something it is not a smile of agreement it is one of embarassment and incomprehension.

I will now genteely descend from my soapbox.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:28 AM

Ditto that!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:22 AM

Fuck the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:34 PM

217.206.205.89/Downloadfile. asp?file=19_19200303111626_92.doc

No Platform Policy      (google this)

I apologize. They ARE a Nazi party.

GUEST, Josh

Eat shit.

Bruce Murdoch

PS I live in Hinton, Alberta. If you visit Canada anytime soon, I would enjoy meeting you. I am very easy to find.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:32 PM

Oh well that spoils my joke :)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:28 PM

their official website is www.bnp.org.uk
they are a bunch of racist idiots, many of there members have convictions for violence, [including assault, grevious bodily harm, football related violence etc etc etc].

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:21 PM

BNP is British National Party. From the reading I've done on the net, they seem to be a bit to the right of George Bush. You can find out more by googling the name or initials. I cannot find a platform or an official website. However, they probably have one to spout their party line. They seem not to like anyone who isn't white, and one of the articles said they don't like Jews either. I don't think they are neo-Nazi, but they're close. They support the notion of sending everybody back to their places of origin. I don't know what that would mean for those children born in the UK whose parents came from elsewhere. They seem to be reasonable until you actually read about them. They are racist, and there ain't no way to put spin on that. It's fact. However, they will likely garner only five percent of the vote, so they will remain a fringe party. I think the people of the UK ar too smart to fall for their bullshit. IMHO.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM

British Nazi Party.

HAHAHAHA

You might be a racist when.......

Yeah, If you support someone who calls himself a Nazi, you might be a racist

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:58 PM

and "recognise".

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM

PS-You spelt "realised" wrong as well.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:55 PM

PS-ddw-in your post of 6.13PM, surely you mean "eminently"?
[imminently means about to happen]

for someone who has made their living through writing English, you are showing quite a piss poor performance on this thread!
may I suggest you invest in a dictionary?
you may find one useful for looking up words you don't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:34 PM

ddw-I just wondered what an "everything word" was.
That's why I asked if English was your first language.


[If your going to take the piss out of my spelling/use of English, it might be an idea to check your own, you just end up looking silly otherwise]

The BNP is The British Nazi Party, a bunch of racist thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

I dont give a shit wether a man/woman is black or brown or yellow or white - (or tartan or even bloody polka dot) . If they are going to work to provide for themselves and NOT be parasites off those who ARE working then Good Luck to them . IF on the other hand any one wants to come to this country and be a sponger , wether Black etc etc I have NO time for them at all . Sadly , the B N P is attracting the sort of person who simply sees an 'Asylum Seeker' as a 'Threat' to
the 'British ' way of life . Equally sadly , there are far too many Liberal thinkers who are only too quick to shout 'Racist' at ANY attempt to maintain a standard of any kind . An immigrant from the Indian Subcontinent who's only words of English are 'Social Security'
is NOT an asset to the country , any more than an Irish Tinker , who
only knows how to trade in scrap , or an Australian Back Packer who
is free loading his way round the world . It is because we ,in our simplicity , let all and sundry in to Britain , that the people who
ONLY want to cause trouble are constantly given more ammumnition to
stir up unrest among those who , for whatever reason , are only too
susceptible to the blandishments of organisations like the B N P .

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:23 PM

I worked on encitement to racial hatred cases for the crown prosecution service. Im a conservative councillor politically responsible for fifty three million. I have a degree in politics and DDw I hae seen this crap masquerading as debate before. Trust me when I say I dont need to read this sort of justification it parades as discuusion when it is a poor attempt to recruit people. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:23 PM

Josh,

I was hoping to learn more about this BNP before I gave my opinion but I really don't have to. Yes you are a racist. But I think there is hope for you.

I still don't know what the BNP is, but considering that you are saying they have a "thug" element I'm left to wonder if there is not another way for you to express your disatisfaction with your government's immigration policies.

It seems to me that the person who struck your car committed the crime of driving without insurance. I don't think it matters which country he was born in. If a Scot had committed the same crime would you now be railing against Scots?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: emjay
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:19 PM

What's BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:12 PM

David and jOhn, you deserve a thread of your own. Thanks for the entertainment. Now what drivel were we wasting our time reading?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:00 PM

Thank you, Cllr, for that enlightening contribution. You haven't read the thread, but you're willing to give your opinion on it's merits based on one silly comment that happens to agree with your preconceived notions? Sounds like a real basis for pride in your intellectual prowess and it makes me really glad you have a vote in a democratic country....

Sorta proves de Tocqueville's point, doesn't it?

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:49 PM

apart from the word "kindly" JFDI =

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:47 PM

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:45 PM

BNP.

I watch the French open - that's Banque National du Paris, right?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:42 PM

I don't want to even give this thread creadence )and i hwvn't bothered reading the comments and also to make it very plain I am not very fond of "john from hull" however I refer to comments made by the right hon. gentlemen from hull some moments ago.

JfH first posting summed it up (4th post in this thread).

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:31 PM

Yes, John, and I spent more than 30 years making my living at writing it. I can understand, however, that you might not recognize it. They say the average person's working vocabulary is about 600 words. When you learn your other 300, let me know.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:14 PM

What goes around comes around. It can be tricky sometimes when foreigners arrive and start changing things, but the British had centuries of doing exactly that across five continents for quite a few centuries. Fair does.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:47 PM

ddw-Is English your first language?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM

www.islamic-bank.com

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:13 PM

Forgive me, SJFH, if I confuse you with the person who for some time now has wanted to discuss such burning issues as whether line dancing is crap and whether modern music is shite.... I should have realized that such intellectual pursuits would make you imminently qualified to comment on social and political issues of the world...

My humble apologies....

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: brid widder
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:10 PM

'I am sick of our country (the UK) being walked over. I do not want to live here anymore.'....

so are you thinking of moving to another country and subjecting yourself to the sort of abuse many members of the BNP think is reasonable here?... or maybe you think you have every right to move to wherever you and your family can make a good life for yourself?

By the way this thread has also mentioned a real opportunity... John you'll like this....'they're building a Bank of Islam in the UK...'hooray!! the religion of Islam does not permit interest to be charged on loans...and also insists on ethical investment, accounts are available to non muslims...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:58 PM

Dunkel,

Some good points there, if the BNP is indeed a front for neo-Nazis. I won't dispute that, but I have some difficulty with the dismissal of the reasons people are finding the ideas attractive.

I find your argument a bit thin on the desperation thing. Economic refugees shouldn't arrive expecting anything except a chance to earn their way in the society they want to join. I don't think anybody would have any problem with that — that's a time-honoured thing. It's the people who arrive claiming desperation, then ask that the hosts cater to their needs who piss me off.

I'm an American citizen who lives in Canada — I've been here since 1970 and never took Canadian citizenship because I hate nationalism almost as much as I hate religion and I saw no reason to throw off one to take on another. But I get pissed off at some people I know — Iraqis, by chance, tho' there are other groups who do the same thing — who live here in subsidized housing. Every member of the family works hard and they send their children to all kinds of schools and special lessons. That's wonderful, but they also send — by their own admission — almost half their total income back to Iraq to support relatives. So why the hell are they in subsidized housing, using my tax money?

I know other families who claimed refugee statu on the basis that they would be persecuted or killed if they return to their homes to live — but they fly back to visit family every year or two. Do you think the "danger" is a bit exaggerated?

Now, as far as troubles being so bad you have to leave your country.... It happens, but not nearly as often as "refugees" claim. More often than not, the ones fleeing "political" persecution are really fleeing poverty. I've got no problem with that. Give them A CHANCE, even give them a hand to get started, but let's show a little compassion for the people who have to pay for it, too. If it's determined that the "refugee claimants" are really fleeing economic conditions, not political unrest or civil war, then help them to stay where they are and build their own countries.

But, of course, that's been tried. And it usually results in the "helpers" — read "mostly Brits and Americans" being accused of trying to impose their cultures on the oppressed.

cheers,

david