Folk vs Folk

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 May 08 - 11:17 AM

Bang goes the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs then, Peace!

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 08 - 11:12 AM

OK. Piss on the lot of you, then. The real definition of folk music which will come to supercede the now out-dated 1954 thing is this:

"If you can name the author/composer of the song, it ain't folk."

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: glueman
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:49 AM

There is no independent phenomenon known as Folk, therefore it is a human construct with all the vying possibilities that implies. The brass signs with pretty copperplate writing usually front the phoniest businesses.

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: GUEST,Gripper
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:42 AM

Okay I take the bait albeit under a pseud.
Whilst like anything that attaches itself to the word 'folk' it is almost impossible to define BUT it is possible to make a few generalisations. The real folk are out there singing football chants, bawdy songs, children's rhymes, Beatles and other past popsongs, while the rest of us 'folkies' are enamoured with the pop songs of say 1750-1850 as remembered largely by the real folk of c1890-1920 from their youth. If we really wanted to emulate them we should be doing what my mate Roy Acko largely does in singing the pop songs of his youth. I often make this point by singing in folk clubs 'Gilly Gilly Hosanpeffer whatever' which I remember from my youth.
However some of us simply love the stuff that was popular among the folk c1890-1920, and what's more we're perfectly entitled to, whatever we might call it!

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: frogprince
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:24 AM

Ooops; that last one was me.   Dean

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:21 AM

The question is really unanswerable; pragmatically speaking, there is simply too much fluctuation in the dynamic parameters of the situational transitions involved to permit stabilized analytical conclusions.

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:16 AM

THE FOLK SONG ARMY
(Tom Lehrer)

We are the Folk Song Army,
Ev'ryone of us cares.
We all hate poverty, war, and injustice,
Unlike the rest of you squares.

There are innocuous folk songs,
But we regard them with scorn.
The folks who sing 'em have no social conscience
Why, they don't even care if Jimmy Crack Corn.

If you feel dissatisfaction,
Strum your frustrations away,
Some people may prefer action,
But give me a folk song any old day.

The tune don't have to be clever,
And it don't matter if you put a coupla extra syllables into a line.
It sounds more ethnic if it ain't good English,
And it don't ever gotta rhyme---excuse me---rhyne.

Remember the war against Franco?
That's the kind where each of us belongs.
Though he may have won all the battles,
We had all the good songs.

So join in the Folk Song Army,
Guitars are the weapons we bring
To the fight against poverty, war, and injustice.
Ready! Aim! Sing!

Copyright Tom Lehrer

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:15 AM

Jasus Bryn I'm well impressed with that, whatever it means.

eric

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:11 AM

Surely the paradigmatic contradistinction between folk actually and folkie folk is the result of the objective methodolgy employed ?

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:09 AM

I think we should paraphrase the question to make it clearer:

How much of it, folk music, folk music, folk music actually - people who are actually a threat or methods - objectivist totally against its own standards, the actual folk, and this?

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:09 AM

You folks gotta loosen up. I have discovered the real definition of 'folk', and so announced on another 'Observer' thread. Did anyone ask, inquire? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Bah, humbug.

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:03 AM

guest The Observer, does it even exist if it is not observed ?

eric

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 May 08 - 10:02 AM

That is the point: the question is meaningless if one bothers to understand "what is folk". It could be more meaningful if addressed to Lloyd's concept of "industrial folk" and compared to "post-industrial folk" (whatever that is, over to you WLD!)

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Banjiman
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:59 AM

How dare you suggest this I'm outraged!

How could you suggest that there is a difference between folkie folk and actual folk even if subjectively perceived......where is this covered in the 1954 definition?

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:56 AM

I thought this would be an appropriate song to hum while reading the thread. Observer, from the heart, you are great. Love your humour and approach. It's time for a character like you. You've weathered the abuse and come out smiling. Makes my day. Thank you.

ARTIST: Brewer and Shipley
TITLE: One Toke Over the Line

{Refrain}
One toke over the line, sweet Jesus, one toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station, one toke over the line
Waitin' for the train that goes home, sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time
Sittin' downtown in a railway station, one toke over the line

Who do you love, I hope it's me
I've been changing, as you can plainly see
I felt the joy and I learned about the pain that my mama said
If I should choose to make it part of me
Would surely strike me dead, and now I'm

{Refrain}

I sail away, a country mile
And now I'm returning, and showing off my smile
I met all the girls and I loved myself a few, and to my surprise
Like everything else that I've been through
They opened up my eyes, and now I'm

{Refrain}

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:50 AM

I'm actually losing sleep over this - or is it too much Asda Cuban Havana?

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 May 08 - 08:34 AM

You know something? That's almost a sensible question.

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: mattkeen
Date: 13 May 08 - 08:34 AM

This is very funny

Subject: RE: Folk vs Folk
From: wordfella
Date: 13 May 08 - 08:33 AM

The extent is mitigated in large part by the ineluctable modality of the observer's preconceptions. It's obvious, isn't it?

Subject: Folk vs Folk
From: GUEST,The Observer
Date: 13 May 08 - 08:26 AM

To what extent, if any, is Folk Music the music of an actual Folk other than folkie Folk, whose actuality is compromised by their adoption of objectivist methodology entirely at odds with the subjectivist criteria of actual Folk, thusly perceived?