Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:03 PM

:0)

---

Spam thread. Closed until somebody asks us to open it. -Joe Offer, [e-mail]-

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM

Slag--

Still obviously having that serious problem you and other Bushites seem to have with reading.   And comprehension. Actually that's important too.

If you ever started reading posts other than your own, you'd see that I in fact stated that Christianity had a strong influence on the early North American colonies.

Actually I've had some strong disagreement with those Mudcatters who, for instance, wanted all images of the 10 Commandments taken out of courtrooms. The Judeo-Christian tradition is essential in understanding the founding of the colonies that became the US.

All we ask is that you finally start reading--and thinking--before you post.

Seems reasonable.

I'm sorry if it's beyond your abilities.

But if you don't, be ready to be slapped down for blatant misstatements--which, interestingly, seem to be your stock in trade. As I said earlier, your main goal seems to be heat, not light.

Some of us are more interested in light--and even in accuracy--a foreign concept to you, it appears.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:00 AM

:0)

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:58 AM

I wonder why all tyrants attempt to justify their tyrany by pointing to the behavious of others - they all belong in the same zoo as far as I can see.
As Ghandi said about western civilisation - it would be a good idea.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:20 PM

The man showed more grace and courage on the gallows than did his executioners.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:01 PM

It couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke!

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Slag
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 07:26 PM

OK Ron, If you want me to post the entire history of the Europeans in Ameerica up to and including the Constitutional Convention I will. I don't know if the mods will go along with it though. Do you not understand a GENERAL OBSERVATION? The point of the Pilgrims is that as a community they worked out how to govern themselves. That doesn't smack of democracy??? Well, maybe not in you book.

My statement was incindiary??? I guess maybe it was because you went off like a Roman Candle. Anybody else have any complaints??? Shall we all say that there was NO CHRISTIAN INFLUENCE in the founding of the United States??? Ron appears to need to rewrite history so lets all deny our heritage. Goodnight Ron.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 12:06 PM

Slag--

As been said (accurately) also of Teribus, you are also "slovenly about facts". What the Pilgrims established was much closer to a theocracy than a democracy. Otherwise it would not have been necessary for Roger Williams and other dissidents to leave. Also see the reception given Quakers in New England.

And you can can the "lighten up"--which is somehow always suggested when you are caught in yet another stupid incendiary statement. Wonder why that happens.

It so happens that a lot of folkies are enthusiastic, if amateur, historians--and will call you on any blatant misstatement--as for instance your opening remark on Mr. Carter.

You'd best learn to get your facts straight--before you post. It would be a refreshing change.

Though some Mudcatters seem to like to deny any Christian influence on the early history of the American colonies, I am not one.   Obviously there was a lot.

But to describe what the Pilgrims established as a democracy is an absurd oversimplification. As Greg points out, that came much later.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST,Captain Ginger
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM

Excuse me, old chap, not wishing to be rude or anything, but there's a queue here! The firing squad issue was my question (albeit under an alter ego).
You get young Terry here to tell you where Albert Pierrepoint kept his mask, and how the UK's GDP is greater than that of Ireland, and...well, there are dozens of unanswered questions in his turbulent wake, as you probably know.
Good to see you back on form after the legionella nastiness, by the way. Keep well and keep biting.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:01 AM

Teribus, you're starting to get quite slovenly about facts, maybe because you simply take on more than you can manage. Try aiming for quality, and forget abpit quantity for a while.

In the meantime, please cite any situation in those "more recent times" you mentioned, when only one member of a firing squad was issued with a live round. You might like to keep in mind that you seemed to be referring to the UK, but I'd settle for anywhere.

Or you could do the smart thing and say you got it wrong.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Slag
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:58 AM

Lighten Up Ron, et al. It is part of our American Heritage. These are just the seeds of democracy. Man, you guys Out with the gats at a momnents notice. Seed for many things were brought to these shore but if your honest you have to see parallels in American fundamental Christianity and the shape our nation and its government took. In England the Church was the state and vice versa. In America Church government was the substitute for civil government. The same folks were working through these issues of Church and State. One hand washed the other, so to speak. Remember both Harvard and Yale began as seminaries! Most of the founding fathers were devout Christians who sought a middle way that tried to be inoffensive to those of differing faiths. You guys are real quick to give the Devil his due. Give Christianity its due. It's history.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:33 AM

Running out of steam, Tel?
The body count is growing month on month. December - 2000-odd killed (that we know of). Would you be willing to take a stroll outside the green zone?
And Fallujah was rather more than an exercise for the USMC - it brought foreign fighters to queues on the borders to come and join the party, and was seemingly the catalyst for bringing in a wider, Al Queda-inspired tranche of Sunnis to join the civil war. Sorry, uprising.
Is that like the vietnam uprising, by the way?
So come on poppet, take the tinfoil off your head, wake up and face a little reality here. The US and British official briefings are about as reliable as those during Vietnam and the Falklands; they have a gloss to put on matters, and will say that black is white if it suits them.
Your much-derided media probably has a better grasp on reality. Not the chairborne warriors in London, New York and Washington, but those on the ground who venture outside the green zone once in a while. There aren't many of them, because it's a dangerous calling, but they are the ones giving the true picture. Talk to squaddies who have done tours there - they'll tell you the situation's going to ratshit. Not much patrolling in berets gets done these days, my love; it's lids on and lock down.
But I suppose you'll carry on carrying the flag valiantly for the armchair warriors. Bless!

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 12:22 AM

It seems that the T-zer can only see one side of the equation. He's a win or lose kinda guy and it will take full retreat and/or widespread slaughter to convince him that the US and Britain combined can never win this war.

btw - Alot more happened in Fallujah than the capture of a few criminals.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/fallujah.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/read-wsj.html&h=392&w=600&sz=79&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=bnPt6m7m_uQQmM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfallujah%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

The hanging of Saddam was just another act of revenge. He was, after all, the man who almost had George Sr. assassinated. I wonder if Sr. is proud of his son for killing so many innocents, displacing the rest and destroying the infrastructure?

I'd say the hanging of Saddam was an honour killing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:46 PM

Slag--Greg is right. Do you purposefully misinterpret history for incendiary effect?   If you wanted to avoid such an effect, all you'd have to do is a bit of research before you post. I get the distinct impression your main goal is heat, not light.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:30 PM

Slag---

I use the 'porcine' term advisedly and with intent. They are
precisely what they claim to revile.

Regarding the Pilgrims--- you're a 150 years too early
for any serious thoughts of 'democracy' in the New World. They,
and most of the other 'religious refugees' of the 17th century,
were basically after finding a place where they could run things
their way. Which turned out to be the way 'God' wanted it. It wasn't
until the end of the 18th century that political thinkers began
to realize that separation of church and state is fundamental
to true 'Democracy.'

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST,UNSUX
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:48 PM

Vancouver University Worldwide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    For the public university in Vancouver,British Columbia, see University of British Columbia

Vancouver University Worldwide describes itself as a "secular consortium university of globally-located public and private member colleges," headquartered in Vancouver, British Columbia. It offers to evaluate "external learning." It has been involved in controversy with the national press due to its external/distance education. Vancouver University is not accredited by any recognised accreditation body. As such, its degrees may not be acceptable to employers or other institutions, and use of degree titles may be restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions.

Two of the United States, Oregon and Michigan list the institution among those whose "degrees" are invalid or illegal because they lack accreditation. While its website claims its degrees are "authorized" under "various British Commonwealth Common Law precedents" under many circumstances this may not be treated as the equivalent of an accreditor recognized in North America.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:31 PM

Gracious. T. I do hope you are being paid well. You may find yourself out of a job before you know it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:37 PM

"teribus - As already posted, Andrew Mack (from UBC), is a credible source but, "...you're citing a piece of research that is based on data collected before the uprising in Fallujah, and before the onset of the current civil war in Iraq and its concommitant attraction of every out of town jihadist from here to Margate? And before the resurgance of Taliban violence in Afghanistan."

Now let's see dianavan the article I referred to was dated 19/10/2005. The Study covers all conflicts in great detail from 1945 to 2003 (Exactly when in 2003 is not made clear). Would you agree that that amount of data might take a bit of time to process? A simple yes or no answer would suffice for this question. So just for arguements sake we'll give Professor Mack and his team 12 months to collate and analyse their data. That would allow a further 10 months for review and publication in order that the worlds press can then comment on it - seem reasonable to you?

There was an "uprising in Fallujah" ?? Are you and Choc refering to the occasion when the USMC sealed the place off and knocked seven bells out of the insurgents trapped therein? Where they succeeded in uncovering and rendering safe rather a large number of arms caches, killed rather a large number of insurgents, uncovered a few of the sites where masked men (heroes of the insurgency) cut the heads of various hostages in front of video cameras - Oh sorry, masked men conducting gruesome executions, where the victim is tortured and taunted - at least hanging is a bit quicker - bet Saddam was rather pleased that he wasn't hung in Iran. By the Bye Fallujah has not been prominent in reports concerning the "insurgency" since this "uprising" of yours.

So currently there is a "Civil War" in Iraq is there dianavan, oh and Choc + whatever other names he/she is posting as on this thread. Perhaps you could let us in on who is fighting who? Perhaps you could let us in on what the aims and aspirations of the sides contesting this "Civil War" are? Perhaps you could enlighten us as to who the leaders of the various factions are? It is after all a "Civil War" - Or so you say.

In actual fact what you have is an insurgency, which is rapidly running out of steam, and sectarian violence - Both in themselves, or combined, do not constitute a "Civil War". When was the last time you heard from Al-Queada-In-Iraq? Insurgents are supposed to be attacking the infidel occupiers - Yes? Why then are their attacks on those infidel occupiers becoming less and less effective? If "the current civil war in Iraq and its concommitant attraction of every out of town jihadist from here to Margate" happens to be the case they are being extremely inefficient and ineffective in prosecuting their cause - In short they are achieving nothing, mainly because they have nothing to achieve.

As for the upsurge in violence in Afghanistan, here are the figures for 2006 - 4000 killed 25% of those were civilians killed by either the UN or NATO soldiers and the Taleban (Bulk of civilians having been killed by the latter), which leaves about 3000 combatants killed. Now very few of that number (i.e. the 3000) are UN or NATO troops, so the bulk of the 3000 must be Taleban fighters - True? So this "resurgance of Taliban violence in Afghanistan" has resulted in the deaths of 1000 civilians, a handful of UN and NATO troops and almost 3000 Taleban fighters - I would venture to suggest that that would indicate no resurgence of Taleban anything, on the other hand it would indicate that the Taleban are taking one hell of a hammering.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Slag
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:00 PM

Ooooo, GregB!!! "porcine whistle training" with regards to those of Islamic Faith!!!Hmmm?!

re religious fundamentalism. Wasn't it religious fundamentalists who were responsible for establishing the first great democracy since the Grecco-Roman times? Right here in North America? I refer to the Pilgrims and the Mayflower Compact and other men of Christian faith whose orthodoxy would make many of today's so-called fundamentalists blush with shame (watch this one take off like a sky rocket folks!).

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM

Greg....I state Western "democracy",because in reality it is not democracy at all, but an all powerful economic system which enslaves those it contains in the "money trap".
To survive, this monstrous machine requires to continually expand and create the environment in which the slaves exchange their time happiness and appreciation of the world and all it contains for money.
The operators of the machine immediately take the money back as payments for enormous mortgages, insurance of same, credit card payments, credit card penaties, bank charges and hire purchase payments on all manner of junk which we are told we cannot live without, but in reality don't need at all.

The Islamic fundamentalists may be mad, but they are not so mad that they cannot see how this creeping virus will affect the power structure of the Mullahs and Moslem culture.
And more importantly they have realised that the machine runs not only on the sweat of the slaves and vast quantities of energy which Moslems control, but also on the confidence of the owners of the machine.

A mere handful of religious fanatics who embrace death rather then life would be able to cause such damage to the confidence of the owners and shareholders that the machine would shudder to a halt.
The slaves , seeing the means of procuring the lifestyle they believe they cannot live without taken from them,panic and before long anarchy reigns.

Now this is probably a very good thing for the welfare of planet Earth, but a very bad thing for the owners of Western "democracy".
In my opinion the said owners are approaching the point where they will be prepared to take ANY measures to defend their system...Ake

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST,Tchaikovsky
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

Look, stop hijacking the Mudcat and get back to my ballet, you little fur-balls, or I'll set the cat on you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: GUEST,The Nutcracker
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

Thank you GregB - the most sensible thing on this thread for a while. Religions of all stripes are rife for exploitation by zealots and bigots. For me the Christian neo-con fundies are just the Islamic fundies in different shirts. All of them stink.
A humanist plague on all their houses.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead (29 Dec 2006)
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:15 PM

Why not remove the 'Islamic' and the 'Western' and just state:

"The greatest danger to democracy is religious fundamentalism."

It's the whole 'under God' crew, the ones who insist that
'religious freedom' applies to THEIR freedom to observe their
religion and to impose 'god's will' on others, that are
destructive to democracy.

Whether it's Christians in the US trying to legislate what
women can do with their own bodies or Muslims in Turkey
preventing Christian churches from owning property it all
comes down to the same thing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:19 PM

"The greatest danger to those who run Western "democracy" is Islamic Fundamentalism"

Teribus...I have already explained directly to you why I believe this to be the case....Memory loss is another symptom I'm afraid.

Despite the spinning of the UK/US/Iraqi governments and taking all available information into account, my best guess at violent deaths since the start of the war would be in hundreds of thousands.

Given the misinformation which abounds ...on both sides, all we can do is guess......And all the Iraqi people can do is grieve....Ake

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The Chocolate Soldier
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:56 PM

Sorry: CC

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:54 PM

>I read the account of an execution in England where the Executioner >came out and chatted with the crowd. He then whacked a few melons and >such to the cheers of the attendees, greeted the condemned and accepted >their tribute, DONNED the hood and then performed the task of state. >Then he took off the hood. It was pretty much a symbol, don't you >think? I believe this was the account of one of the nobles being >dispatched but I can't remember which.

I believe that was the Duke of Gallagher.

Hearing the latest, it seems that the Iraqis handled the event
like a bunch of savages. They've now turned around and arrested
the guys who used their cell-phones to record and publicize
the fact that they handled it like a bunch of savages. I suppose
that they will now act like a bunch of savages in their treatment
of said 'reporters.'

All in the name of 'keeping up the appearance' of being
civilized men.

Rather brings to mind a Mark Twain quote regarding porcine
whistler training.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM

teribus - As already posted, Andrew Mack (from UBC), is a credible source but, "...you're citing a piece of research that is based on data collected before the uprising in Fallujah, and before the onset of the current civil war in Iraq and its concommitant attraction of every out of town jihadist from here to Margate? And before the resurgance of Taliban violence in Afghanistan."

Chocolate soldier has already posted this.

Your argument has too many holes in it. Try finding current and credible sources to back your opinion.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The Chocolate Soldier
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:28 PM

Hmm - just goes to show you can't trust the bloody press, eh?
Just as well our Tel would never post something like:
"World is a safer place despite people's fears
By Francis Harris in Washington
Last Updated: 2:18am BST 19/10/2005
Isn't it?

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:39 PM

That's good then dianavan Professor Andrew Mack of The University of British Columbia should then be acceptable as a source then.

I believe that it was the BBC report, or in the British Press that Vancouver University was cited in connection with the study.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,Tchaikovsky
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

Great merciful heavens, amateur psychology from toy characters in my own ballet! I must cut back on the opium, I fear.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The Sugarplum Fairy
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:23 PM

It's an interesting case of polar credulity, really. He'll believe anything if it shores up his particular set of memes, but anything which challenges them - however 'real' - is dismissed as fantastical. You see a similar mindset with Creationists and other fundamentalists of all stripes.
Though how our Terry would react at being lumped in with those nasty fundies is too delicious even to contemplate!

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:04 PM

teribus - Read the post.

Vancouver University is not accredited. The University of British Columbia is accredited. They are not the same.

With your comprehension, its no wonder you hold the beliefs you do.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The Chocolate Soldier
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:47 AM

Oh, you know, about egregious errors in dogmatic statements about firing squads, and spurious interpretation of press reports of academic research...that sort of thing.
Nothing serious in the great scheme of things, but they do serve to undermine your position, old fruit.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

You had concerns Choc???

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The chocolate Soldier
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM

Hey, Teribs, dearest - before you start shouting at some monotheistic pharaoh, how about adressing my concerns? I trust you have breakfasted (and lunched) well, and now feel suitably fortified to continue your sweetly quixotic travails.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:30 AM

From Akenaton:

"What I did say say is that the "biggest danger to those who run Western "democracy", is Islamic Fundamentalism"

How and why? Should be simple enough for you to answer that surely. It is after all your dearly held belief. It is your opinion, it is not a fact.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:37 AM

By the way , I have never said that all Islamic Fundamentalists are "terrorists".

What I did say say is that the "biggest danger to those who run Western "democracy", is Islamic Fundamentalism"...a different point completely.
The main danger to the machine is a cultural one.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,The Sugarplum Fairy
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:33 AM

The University of British Columbia in Vancouver is nor accredited?

Good grief man! Is that really the best riposte you can deliver after a good night's sleep?
All the questions that have been asked; all those eager acolytes hanging on your every word, and all you can come up with is "The University of British Columbia in Vancouver is nor accredited?".
Honestly, I give up. No wonder the country's in the state it's in when that is the sort of dialectic the opposition musters.
As PeterK says, you're beginning to look a bit flaky.
By the way, any chance of a reference on the firing squad issue? And you thoughts on the 'state-based conflicts v terrorism' issue?
When you've had breakfast, of course.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:30 AM

Teribus...You nit pick whether all Islamic Fundamentalists are "terrorist", yet with a bold brush,paint all Iraqi Sunni's as "Nazi's"

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:21 AM

The University of British Columbia in Vancouver is nor accredited?

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Slag
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 10:59 PM

I read the account of an execution in England where the Executioner came out and chatted with the crowd. He then whacked a few melons and such to the cheers of the attendees, greeted the condemned and accepted their tribute, DONNED the hood and then performed the task of state. Then he took off the hood. It was pretty much a symbol, don't you think? I believe this was the account of one of the nobles being dispatched but I can't remember which.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 09:42 PM

No Teribus, I've never witnessed an execution. Did I imply that I had done so? Did you think that I had done so? If "no" to both of these, why the question, I wonder?

I take your point about American executions. Some of the people involved in the death (such as the guy who signals the go-ahead) are in full view and unmasked, but not the guy who throws the switch, or whatever. So I'd better abandon the US as an example. That still leaves British hangings, which in any case provide a better parallel with Saddam's experience. I can find no mention of a hangman being masked at any UK execution in the 20th century. Pierrepoint alone hanged several hundred people and never wore a mask.

One of the guests challenged your casual assertions about firing squads and you dismissed it in typically snotty style. What you did not do was give any evidence for your implied assertion that the number. or proportion, of those in a firing squad who were issued with blanks changed some time after WW1.

when you demand scrupulous adherence to verifiable facts from others and then skirt around them yourself when you find it convenient to do so, you do begin to look a little bit flaky.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,hugo
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM

America is facing a massive defeat in Iraq.It has already lost over 3000 soldiers killed and tens of thousands badly wounded often losing arms and legs.
The situation will only get worse and the so called"surge" of troops planned by the wargang will only provide more targets for the Iraqi fighters to aim their roadside bombs at.
Bush is facing a humiliating defeat...and this from the politician who told his electorate that "major combat operations were over".
This is a horror without end....until US and UK troops are withdrawn.
hugo

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 03:18 PM

We keep being told that most of Iraq is stable, that Baghdad is the main problem. Pertinent to that I read an eyeopening article in the current Newsweek by Fareed Zakaria. (The editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek's editions abroad.)

In an article titled 'Losing the War, as well as the Battle', he says, quote:

Now look at the "safe" areas. The south of the country, which the administration claims is stable, is run by fanatical religious parties, militias and street gangs, most of whom impose Iranian-style restrictions on people's rights and liberties. For minorities (like Christians) and for women the new Iraq has been one of persecution and punishment. In many Sunni areas of the country, a Taliban-style puritanism is being enforced. Amid the chaos, the groups that can provide security tend to be the most thuggish and extreme in their political views.

Unquote

It is amazing to me that these are the areas that the administration lauds.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

Teribus....Tut, tut, tut, It seems you are losing the plot, or should I say you are now in the terminal stage.

You completely misread my post of 2nd Jan 10:13 and subsequently your argument is in shreds.

The first paragraph was in parenthesis and separated from the main body of my post.
It was of course a quote from the 9:21 post by Slag, one of your diminishing band of supporters.

My advice ? the same as you are fond of handing out to others
       READ THE BLOODY POST!!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

During Saddam`s trial journalists in the glassed-in gallery heard and saw only what they were permitted to. Judges in the US-built courtroom disposed of two buttons, one to cut the sound when Saddam spoke, and another to draw a curtain across the dock when he misbehaved.

Excerpts were released for broadcast with a 20- to 30- minute delay, ensuring that any revelations by Saddam could be censored, thus ensuring the role played by the US in the arms and chemical weapons dealings with Saddam`s government in the war with Iran would be unheard.
We will give him a fair trial and then we will execute him, the US wild west reenacted in Iraq.

Bush continues to take counsel on where to go next in the morass that Iraq has become, and again we will be hearing from those like Vice President Dick Cheney who said the invasion could be done with a minimum of troops and who are now calling for a surge in US troop numbers ahead of a handover to Iraqi authorities.

Wishful thinking by Bush and co won`t help this unsolvable problem, how to get out is their biggest problem.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 01:21 PM

Teribus, you say, "There was no cross-check made to filter out duplication of data from surveyors talking to different members of the same family about deaths within that family."

Why would a surveyor inventory members of the same family? I believe John Hopkins university to be a qualified and objective source of information.

You, on the other hand, prefer to quote Vancouver University, "- "In general the world is a much safer place now than at any time since the end of the second world war" - Findings of a UN Study conducted by Vancouver University and Uppsala University, Sweden.

Vancouver University is not even accredited. The degrees held by these so-called 'learned persons' are worthless.

Andrew Mack (from UBC), on the other hand, is a credible source but, "...you're citing a piece of research that is based on data collected before the uprising in Fallujah, and before the onset of the current civil war in Iraq and its concommitant attraction of every out of town jihadist from here to Margate? And before the resurgance of Taliban violence in Afghanistan." = Chocolate soldier

You are grasping at straws.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 01:20 PM

And we DID get the video. Thanks for nothing, gaurd or whoever.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 01:15 PM

Nearly 14,000 Iraqis were killed by criminal or political violence in 2006. The violence is not quite a war, but it is very violent, especially when you consider that nearly all of it is taking place in only a third of the country.The fighting is more and more Iraqis versus Iraqis, with some 95 percent of the dead in 2005 being Iraqi. While the media highlights those days when there were a hundred terrorist deaths, that was not the norm. On average, about 36 people a day died. But a day with no terrorist deaths is not considered news, and is rarely reported. Some 11 percent of the Iraqi deaths were security forces. That's 1,543 dead, compared to 832 American. No one is sure, but perhaps a third of the civilian deaths were terrorists, or those involved in supporting the terrorism. In 2006, most of the dead were Sunni Arabs (civilians and terrorists). The UN claims that twice as many Iraqis died, but that number is widely seen as motivated more by politics (the UN opposed the overthrow of Saddam, who bribed many UN officials) than a desire for accurate statistics.

Subject: RE: Obit: Saddam Hussein Dead
From: GUEST,UNSUX
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 01:09 PM

GENEVA (AFP) - The
United Nations top human rights official has called on
Iraq not to execute two aides to former president
Saddam Hussein, saying concerns over the trial process also applied in their cases.

New U.N. Chief Defends Death Penalty for Hussein

By Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 3, 2007; Page A15

UNITED NATIONS, Jan. 2 -- U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon said Tuesday that Iraq and other countries have the right to impose the death penalty, adding that the world should never forget Saddam Hussein's "heinous crimes."