BS: Killed for being black? Florida today

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 05:18 PM

"With 200 million guns in this country, it's a credit to Americans that such a relatively small proportion of the 300 million population are shot."

,.,.,.

Oh, yes, wowza wowza wowza. "Credit". Yay yay yay. "Credit".

                     〠〠〠Pppphhhttthhh〠〠〠

From over here, the only possible response to that is



NO COMMENT!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 05:05 PM

Obviously Z was not to be trusted with a pistol.

But no workable law could have kept him from purchasing one. As far as I know, he had no criminal record or record of mental instability.

That's one reason the shooting is called a "tragedy." It seems not to have been predictable.

With 200 million guns in this country, it's a credit to Americans that such a relatively small proportion of the 300 million population are shot.

Unless the state can prove premeditation, Z won't be charged with first-degree murder. My guess is it would be some level of manslaughter. There's even the possibility of "negligent homicide" (the terminology varies from state to state)if, for example, Z simply drew his gun as a threat without actually pointing it at M. It may all depend on the details of the scuffle.

The point is that, even if convicted, Z is unlikely to go to prison for life without parole.   

P.S.: Just being Hispanic doesn't mean a person can't hate blacks. (Not that I've seen any proof that Z really does.)

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:54 PM

Police released Monday neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman's account of on why he shot Trayvon Martin one month ago, claiming that the slain 17-year-old punched him in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

According to The Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman said he was walking toward his SUV on February 26 when Martin approached him from behind and attacked him after the two exchange words. Zimmerman and his lawyer said he shot Martin in self-defense.

Police indicate in their details that Zimmerman called them to report Martin as a suspicious person and followed him before the two met face-to-face, as the widely heard 911 tapes describe. Police are unsure about what took place between Zimmerman's call to them and the shooting, but said their evidence found that Zimmerman was crying for help. Lawyers from Martin's family said the cries came from the teenager.

Martin's parents and lawyer have said that Zimmerman, who is still free, should be arrested for pursing Martin despite police urging Zimmerman not to follow him on the 911 tapes.

The Martin family confirmed to the Associated Press Monday a report that their son was suspended from school for carrying a bag of marijuana in his book bag.

"We maintain that regardless of the specific reason for the suspension, it's got nothing to do with the events that unfolded on Feb. 26," spokesman Ryan Julison said.

The late teenager's parents and lawyers claim Martin's suspension and the public push back by Zimmerman's lawyer and supporters are designed to denigrate their son's image.

The Raw Story

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:36 PM

We'll get to the Panthers right after Zimmerman is jailed for HIS despicable act, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:35 PM

I'd just like to throw in a comment. The bounty on Zimmerman announced by The New Black Panthers is sickening and those hate mongers should be jailed for such a despicable act. I expect Dr. King is spinning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:01 PM

Yes, YY, I think that second quote is a good one for getting at the humanity of prejudice -- the act of "pre-judging" which we all do to one degree or another, and in various ways in various circumstances. George Zimmerman can have good friends who are black and still respond automatically with a different judgement to an unknown black person in circumstances he's trained himself to suspect.

Honestly, for me I have less of a problem (not none!) with Zimmerman as an individual in this case than (1) the police department (non)response, and (2) our laws that allowed him to be out there untrained or monitored but with a loaded gun, seeing himself as an adjunct in law enforcement.

To focus strictly on Zimmerman and assume he's a bigot limits the view of the scope and complexity of the problems here, and is a mirror to those whose view is that "of course Trayvon Martin was a thug".

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 11:54 AM

Desert Dancer, Thanks for all the great links you've been providing throughout this thread. I followed your excellent link (just above), and found another bit that I think is SO "right-on-the-money":
"These conversations are difficult, because there is a lot of intensity and emotion involved here. I often find myself having to explain relatively simple things to people in the comments section because they don't really want to have an honest conversation, they want to delegitimize the claim of racism as much as possible." [BF mine.]

This strikes me as a "great truth". We see it happening here on not just this, but many Mudcat thread(s) all the time -- and on many other subjects -- and in many other places as well, of course. All of us (with a few very rare exceptions) tend to "take in"/remember/misremember the details/"facts" that support our mindset(s) -- and to not notice/misunderstand/forget those that don't. Seems to be human nature, unfortunately...

I think the best we can do is try to be aware of our biases and try to factor them in when we are passing judgement on others (and ourselves), but this is not easy for anyone -- and for some, nearly (if not completely) impossible.

I think if I had the misfortune to be "King of the World", I would order all schools to teach this to their students; maybe have something they'd recite every day -- instead of prayers or the pledge of allegiance...

Anyway, to continue; here's the rest of the paragraph I quoted above, which (IMHO) is also extremely perceptive:
"Also too, we just don't have a great vocabulary. Everyone uses the word "racism" right away. But people can act in prejudice without being bigots." [again, BF mine.]

Finally, just wanted to point out that anyone who followed DD's various links earlier in this thread (like this one: NY Times news report: Justice Department investigation is sought in Florida teen) and saw a photo of Mr Zimmerman (scroll down a bit) would not be all that surprised to hear that Mr Z is Hispanic.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:58 AM

Bluesman, you're tickled pink that this white man is free, but the preponderance of evidence is against him. Sounder minds than those of the local cops and administrators are now looking at the case. The wheels of justice sometimes move slowly, but they are moving. Zimmerman's defacto freedom now doesn't presume defacto innocence.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:50 AM

no charge, no crime

That's a joke, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:02 AM

No charge doesn't mean no crime.

As I recall Hitler was never charged with a crime either. Not that I would compare the two of course.

But for the sake of trolling no charge = no crime. And in America you are innocent until proven guilty. By a jury. So right now Zimmerman is innocent. I embrace that concept. But - Zimmerman will get his day in court. Count on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:54 AM

Wesley, the fact is, the law has not charged the man, in simple terms, no charge, no crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:17 AM

"you are reading weepy stories and lies about this case "

OK Bluesman - where are YOU finding "The Truth" that we haven't seen yet?

And I suspect Zimmerman will be in custody in about a week. A jury needs to decide this case. Not englishman on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:31 AM

Richard, you are guessing again, please understand you are not acting for the defence in this case, you are reading weepy stories and lies about this case from the resident hysterical liberal drama queens here and on the net.

George is a free man, now that is fact. Agreed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:24 AM

1. There is no evidence or even assertion (AFAIK) that Martin was a thug or drug dealer.
2. If he had been Caucasian it would have made the killing unlikely to be the result of racism.

Do try to keep up.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:15 AM

Why are so many of you rushing to judgment in the George Zimmerman case?
Did you investigate the crime? No. You probably saw it on TV or the internet and automatically thought "Oh he shot a black guy so it must make the guy a murderer.

If this was a white thug or drug dealer instead of a black one, there wouldn't be a word from one of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 01:48 AM

An interesting discussion on the how racism works:

Where race matters in the Trayvon Martin case, and where it doesn't

I think some of this is wrapped up in a very simplistic understanding of racism. We still, too often, act like racism is a switch -- either you're Archie Bunker or David Duke and acting as a clear cut white supremacist, or you're not.

But that's not how I think it works. Very often, people who would never consider themselves racist in other settings have very negative views of minorities in certain circumstances -- say, if they live in a high-crime neighborhood where many offenses are committed by black or brown people.

Zimmerman's father has released a statement saying his son speaks Spanish and has partially Hispanic heritage (his mother is Hispanic), perhaps to suggest that he isn't prejudiced against racial minorities because he's a minority, too. They may also be trying to make any federal civil rights prosecution tougher by pushing back against the notion that he was a white guy zeroing in on a young black male for little reason.

But even if that were true -- Tampa Bay Times writer Michael Kruse reports that Zimmerman self identifies as Hispanic on his driver's license and voter registration -- that doesn't mean he couldn't have also been someone who singled out black people for special, pejorative attention while watching over the neighborhood.

Add in a police department with longstanding frictions among the black community, and you have a story which sounds sadly familiar to people who know Florida and race issues. The state has a sad legacy of law enforcement which doesn't always treat people of color with the respect they deserve; if anything comes of this awful tragedy, it should be a close look at how Sanford police handled the investigation and their unwillingness to release material such as audio of the 911 calls.

More at the top link from Eric Deggans, Tampa Bay Times media critic; the above quote from his March 21 column here. (Sorry, I can't see how to link to the specific date.)

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:59 PM

News reports state his father is whlte *(presumably American and causasian) and his mother is hispanic, from Venezuela.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:21 PM

"Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic," --
.,,.

Eh? What sort of 'Hispanic' name is Zimmerman?

I mean, take the best-known owner of that name:
'Bob Dylan was born "Robert Allen Zimmerman" (Hebrew name שבתאי זיסאל בן אברה [Shabtai Zisel ben Avraham])' sez wikipedia.

Puzzled -

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:07 PM

Black friend defendsshooter

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 06:06 PM

200

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 06:01 PM

""What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It's not a question of who that young man looked like.""

Not in Gingrich's mind perhaps (though that is open to question), but it was certainly in Zimmerman's mind and may have been his motivation.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 05:30 PM

I thinkyou're right Greg. Many of them drive Diesels for the same reason........the smell of the kerosene and all.....very moving.....


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 02:26 PM

I'm surprised, Spaw - I always thought that in the "New South" tha Klan wore business suits instead of hoods.

Maybe its a nostalgia thing for the good old days when you could do whatever you wanted with your human property.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 02:25 PM

Which they share with Zimmerman...................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 02:24 PM

The Republican presidential candidates HAVE to say something that opposes the President - no matter what he says. If Obama says the sun will rise in the east tomorrow Newt will claim that Obama is looking toward Europe for inspiration and "Sanatorium" will make a reference to the President being a Muslim. To agree with the President on ANYTHING will risk losing their base supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 01:38 PM

I see now that Zimmerman now has a group of backers. They differ from Trayvon Martin's supporters in many ways although there are similarities. For instance, while Trayvon supporters wear hoodies the Zimmerman contingent just wear hoods.........................​...


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:41 AM

"I did my best, when choosing the words I used in my post, to convey that I do not think there is sufficient information available to draw conclusions or to make assumptions about Zimmerman or any degree of quirkiness he might possess. "

Cheers for the clarification Janie, I guess I misread / misinterpreted your meaning there.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 10:54 AM

30,000 people show up in a pissant Florida town to show their support for ANYONE who will process an obvious hate crime and Newtie accuses the President of driving a wedge.............

Sadly Greg, you have it right.



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 10:46 AM

Gingrich and Santorum are not only speaking to their constituencies but FOR their constituencies.... which is a big reason these sorts of incidents recur in the "non-racist" U.S. of A.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 10:42 AM

I agree that I find the remarks of Gingrich and Santorum almost incredible. Certainly discreditable.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 10:21 AM

I missed this part of G's remarks:

"What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It's not a question of who that young man looked like."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 09:58 AM

Obama:

"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And, you know, I think they are right to expect that all of us, as Americans, are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."


And now, let's ask "How low will they go?" You know the answer:


Gingrich:

"Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white kid who had been shot, that would be OK because he wouldn't look like him? It's just nonsense. Dividing this country up – it is a tragedy this young man was shot."

Santorum:

"What the president of the United States should do is try to bring people together, not use these types of horrible tragic individual cases to try to drive a wedge in America."

Romney and Paul, the grownups in the Republican room for the moment, did not criticize the President.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 11:48 AM

I suspected that that might be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: pdq
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 11:31 AM

Jeb Bush, who supported Stand Your Ground and signed it into law when he was governor of Florida, says that this case does not qualify. Once the watchman started following the suspect he was not standing his ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 11:09 AM

But they are not entirely synonymous, Bobert. "Self defence" may subsume, "Stand your ground", but has many other connotations also.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 10:49 AM

Stand your ground, self-defense??? Doesn't much matter as the basis of "stand your ground" is supposedly "self defense"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 10:45 AM

"Speaking publicly for the first time on Friday evening, Craig A. Sonner, Mr. Zimmerman's lawyer, said on CNN that he would not use the Stand Your Ground defense should his client be charged in the shooting. He said he would use self-defense."

NY Times

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 10:24 AM

Dave the G - from what I've read of the circumstances, you'll be OK - you're white, aren't you.

Big Bill got it right all those years ago:

If you's white, you's alright.
If you're brown, stick around.
But if you're black - oh brother -
Get back, get back, get back.

Big Bill was a real 'Bluesman', by the way, not some arsehole aping one.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 10:18 AM

I've been reading a lot of stuff on these "Castle (stand your ground) Laws" and what strikes me is that they all seem to imply that the killer can be the one who initiates the confrontation??? Even here in North Carolina the Mecklinburg Prosecutor says that if you feel threatened you have the right to kill someone... The fact that you started the altercation isn't relevant???

Summation: Kill anyone you want as lontg as you say you feel threatened and you're good to go???

There is no sanity here...

This kid didn't start this confrontation... He was just walking home... Yeah, maybe after being confronted, even attacked, by Zimmerman he tried to ***defend*** himself but without a gun he was at a disadvantage against an armed Zimmerman...

I wonder how this would have played out if it was Martin who had the gun and was attacked by an unarmed Zimmerman and shot Zimmerman??? Me thinks he would have been arrested and maybe even shot and killed by the police trying to arrest him...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 09:50 AM

Another case:

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/311679/28/Iraq-War-veteran-killed-widow-says-Floridas-Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-mu

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 09:34 AM

Thanks for the clarification, SRS, it was all that was required. It leaves me with more of a puzzle though.

We also have different 'levels' of crime. Some being dealt with by Magistrates and some dealt with by judges and juries. But as I said earlier a crime is a crime is a crime and whatever level it is, it is still brought to court. The only exception is when the director of public prosecutions decides there is not enough evidence or little chance of gaining a conviction. That would almost never happen in the case of an unlawful killing. An inquest would decide if the killing was unlawful or not. If it was, then a complex legal procedure would then decide if the person killing the other was was to be tried for murder or manslaughter. Finaly the court woulld decide if the accused was guilty of whetevr crime they are charged with.

What seems to be happening here is that someone, possibly at police level, has decided that this man is not guilty of any crime, even though he has killed someone. In the UK that would not happen. Even if it was very obvious self defence, and that has happened 3 times near me recently, it is the coroner who advises the DPP whether to go ahead with a legal case or not.

I am asking these questions with a serious worry in mind - My cousin has just moved to Floria - To a gated community in fact. I don't want to go and visit him if someone else in that community decides that I am a stranger, they don't like the look of me and they know they can get away with killing me for no good reason!

Can anyone comment?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 02:58 AM

Ah, Janie ~~ but that is the bug in all communication: part of Original Sin IMO.

As the academic character Professor Morris Zapp summarises it in David Lodge's academic novels ~~

"Every decoding is another encoding".

Should be the watchword of the structuralists, the post-structuralists, and all that crew: tghen they might not spend so much of their lives answering questions that no human being would ever dream of asking.

'Twas ever thus. No way out of it. And here on Mudcat, don't we ever see it in operation, in ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 10:28 PM

Hi CS.

I hope you don't mind if I use your response to my post to illustrate something that is a common occurrence in human communication.

What I posted was as follows:




CS, I think you will not mind if I use your responses to my post to illustrate some common things that happen in human brains and human communication and that make life complicated. I think that because your posts are thoughtful.

This is the full sentence I posted: Zimmerman, from what little has actually been written about him - and very little of that little bit has been based on impressions of people who know him well - might be a bit quirky, but quite possibly no more quirky than many of us, and certainly no more quirky than many friends, relatives and acquaintances Most of us probably have, and some of whom we love.

you posted two responses.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS - PM
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 10:06 AM

"Zimmerman, from what little has actually been written about him - and very little of that little bit has been based on impressions of people who know him well - might be a bit quirky, but quite possibly no more quirky than many of us,"

I disagree with this Janie. Personally I suspect this person was in fact more than "a little quirky" in the same way that I see any person acting in an extreme fashion (I believe unprovoked killing of a stranger - in a culture which does not explicitly condone such actions - to be an extreme action) to be more than "a little quirky".

and Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS - PM
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 05:19 PM

Having had time to mull over Janie's conclusion that Zimmerman was but "a little quirky" and as it echoed BillD's equivalent statement early on in this thread (Zimmerman was but "a little odd"), I realise that it's important -if indeed not essential- to contextualise such notions in terms of ones culturally determined understandings of 'normal' human behaviour.

On consideration, and based on the context of our different cultures (with all the unspoken -and often unconscious- assumptions that belonging to differing cultures necessarily implies), I suspect that my subjective understanding of "a little odd" or "a little quirky" will, and do, differ substantially from that of Janie's and Bill D's.

I did my best, when choosing the words I used in my post, to convey that I do not think there is sufficient information available to draw conclusions or to make assumptions about Zimmerman or any degree of quirkiness he might possess.

There is no rational basis that I can discern to either agree or disagree with my sentence regarding Zimmerman and the available information. There is no indication, as best I can discern, that I am making any assumptions about him or his degree of quirkiness. I did the best I could to convey my lack of assumption.

You are a thoughtful person. It is possible I am a bad communicater. It is possible my unexamined cognitive distortions lead me to think I am conveying objectivity when I am not,or even more significantly, that I delude myself that I am striving with some success in being objective when in fact I am exhibiting significant bias. It is possible your own cognitive distortions resulted in an inaccurate reading of my post. The most likely explanation is we both have unexamined cognitive distortions that influence both what we express and what we hear.

That is the norm. That is being human. It is the failure to examine that within ourselves that is dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 09:49 PM

For the UK contingent: crimes are usually dealt with in different levels according to severity. What might get a traffic court or a justice of the peace trial is something like a neighborhood dispute or traffic citation. Crimes like theft, assault, drug posession (up to a point), property crimes with what we've been hearing recently in Texas where repairmen take advantage of the elderly in home repair or roofing schemes (take the money, don't do the work) or scammers are trying to live rent free in luxury homes that are in foreclosure, those kinds of things are dealt with in the city, the county, or the state. Misbehavior by businesses (poor maintenance causing injuries, not keeping food cold enough and causing food poisoning). These are only a very few examples.

Federal crimes cover things where there are overarching laws passed by the House of Representatives and the Senate, in which the Federal Bureau of Investigation may be involved in investigation. Kidnapping, some murders, crimes that cross state lines (fleeing or transporting materials, victims, etc.) and civil rights crimes. Bank fraud, a lot of white collar crime.

The hate crime laws are newer, but they are important for allowing investigations in communities where they occur and the natives aren't too keen on prosecuting their own for something they may not completely disagree with, or where the local prosecutors will be run out of town on a rail if they try to do it. An early crime that was prosecuted under the hate crime legislation had to do with the dragging death of a black man in east Texas named James Bird. Three white men tied and chained him and they drove down the road in a pickup dragging and battering him on the pavement. I think he lost limbs and his head before they stopped. Three guys were given the death sentence for that, and they were tried under federal jurisdiction.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 07:58 PM

Are you still on the meds Bobertz? I mean like most of us learned that yesterday.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 07:37 PM

Now we learn that Zimmerman said to the police dispatcher that the kid was a "fucking coon" during that initial call to the police...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 07:04 PM

I did miss that point. Thanks for the clarification.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 06:15 PM

Oh, yeah, Bobert, I was responding to Lighter's apparently missing that particular fact, but ultimately, you're absolutely right the fact that Zimmerman was carrying a gun meant that the encounter resulted in his being judge, jury, and executioner.

And then, the law and the police interpretation of it meant that nothing was going to happen after that until Trayvon's parents started questioning the situation.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 06:14 PM

up until he killed the kid.

By such means we might say: "he was a such a super guy ..until the day he (insert monstrosity here)
Such is not all that uncommon with mass murderers or rampant peadophiles.

"It's the action that was out of bounds, it was his behavior, not his personality."

You'll have to explain to me how you differentiate the two.

And as this is a music site: He was a sweet and tender Hooligan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECSjeTAA2Uw

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 06:01 PM

It may not. He was odd and quirky right up until he killed the kid. It's the action that was out of bounds, it was his behavior, not his personality.

That "stand your ground" law is terrible. I'm pretty sure that every police shooting requires an investigation, but this one might very well have just slipped through the cracks if it hadn't made the news.