BS: Killed for being black? Florida today

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 11:19 AM

On the face of it it seems quite a bizarre and extreme case (I don't think the killer was a "little odd" but a paranoid bigot with a gun and a vastly inflated sense of his personal importance) - until you hear of similar "brush it under the carpet" decisions from within the same police dept. The terrible action of one gun nut is one thing, while the (non) actions of the police dept. in response to that incident and others like it are another, which potentially require further investigation into how they handle race related crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:44 AM

Petition organised by Trayvon's parents is also on here, along with other information..Over 2,500 people on the page so far, help to spread it out much further....

'Justice for Trayvon Martin' - Facebook page

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 05:20 AM

I'm not offended gnu- I really want to know people's thought processes in a society that is so like my own, yet in some ways so different. We certainly have racism in the UK, and would-be vigilantes too (if you follow UK stuff, you might have heard of the English Defence League). But most people don't have guns. There have been some high profile cases over the years- a farmer shot and killed a burglar, and was jailed for murder, more recently a shopkeeper stabbed a robber and was not proceeded against. But this latter was after investigation, during which he was held in custody. In another similar case a burglar was stabbed with a breadknife after a gang broke into an occupied house. Similarly, the householder was arrested while investigations took place.

The shock of the Florida case to me is that the sole grounds for suspicion seems to have been that the young man was black.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:47 AM

PS, I don't remember it, but I was 7 when it happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:46 AM

http://www.razorcake.org/columns/the-fbi-report-on-the-murder-of-emmett-till-update-2007?gclid=CJXZn6qH8K4CFSEntAodZQlEKQ

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 02:46 AM

We here in UK remember the iniquitous Emmett Till case of 1955, and others of the same sort from way back then. We had hoped that such incidents were in the past; but alas it seems not so.

Profound sympathies.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:50 PM

Gnu, I think an arguement can be made that this terrible event is as much about gun ownership as it is about racism.

I think this is about the danger of personally unexamined assumptions that people make every day. The danger of unconscious living.

All I know is what I read in the news reports. Now, let me acknowledge that as a psychotherapist I tend not to view the choices people make about their behaviors and choices in simple terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:46 PM

Janie... the problem is with those who DO see the world in simple terms and who can't wrap their little minds around the difference between 'reasonable care' and **profiling**.... and those who are profiled unfairly often get tired of being stopped and questioned- they respond- which makes the 'nuts with guns' even more sure hey have reason to 'suspect' something. And so it goes... round & round.

I personally think there IS more actual racism in the south...but that may just be a matter of opinion..or semantics.

The awkward thing about profiling..(which is no doubt what the vigilante did)... is that it has a certain value at times. The problem is with those who see only 'either/or' cases and can't use judgment.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:37 PM

I am gonna leave now. This story is tragic and to turn it into a debate about gun ownership rather than what it should be about is futile and somewhat offensive to the OP, IMO. gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:30 PM

This may not seem related to many, but I tend to not understand the world in simple terms. My 18 year old son who is a senior in high school is off on a 4 day exertion to Boston, MA for a Parkour Jam. It is 12 hour drive from Durham, NC. He is taking his car and traveling with two college students from Duke, both African-American kids from the Northeast. Parents have to let go, but I confess to some anxiety about this first, long trip when the car can break down or the kids get lost, etc. I am also aware of some measure of increased anxiety that the kids might face increased risk of "targeting" if they drive too fast or have a breakdown, or otherwise need help or call attention to themselves, simply because two of them are African-American. Now mind you, I live in the South. I don't happen to think there is any more racism in the South than there is in the North, but I do think racism in the North or in urban areas is more unconscious, and therefore possibly more dangerous and unpredictable.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:15 PM

"Nuts" is not a simple, clear definition. It is a continuum, with "totally barmy" at one end and "slightly odd" at another. Trouble is, they will sell guns to anyone who has not been convicted of being "totally barmy" or being a felon..........and at many gun shows, they don't even check!

Evidently, this vigilante was just on the "slightly odd" end, and had not been in any 'official' trouble... he just had an attitude towards 'black boys wandering around after dark'.

NOW he will be considered further down the continuum of 'nutness'....which does little for the family of the dead kid.

Do you know anyone who owns ...or wishes to own... guns, who would call themselves a 'dangerous nut'?

The standard answer in these cases is: "I felt threatened!" or "He had something in his hand that looked like a gun, and he made a motion!"....and obviously, young black boys can't be trusted...even when all they have is a bag of Skittles!

This semi-nut was TOLD by the police dispatcher NOT to follow or confront the kid! But he HAD a gun, and he, by golly, was gonna defend the neighborhood and himself.... he had programmed himself to find trouble!

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Janie
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:09 PM

Very tragic.

What Bill D said.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 06:23 PM

For nuts I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 06:00 PM

"If all you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything you see as a nail."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:50 PM

Nuts kill people.

So, keep the guns away from the nuts. That's YOUR job. But don't tell me I can't defend myself with a weapon of any kind. That is just nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:44 PM

All together now: "Guns don't kill people...."

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:43 PM

Welcome to Jim Crow's America...

Been going on since 1619...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:37 PM

The story is basically true... there was one stupid vigilante who made a BIG mistake, and one sheriff who didn't want to arrest a 'good guy' who claimed 'self-defense'......

I rather expect other forces will change the situation...

Subject: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:33 PM

This is an unashamed cut and paste from PZ Myers' excellent blog, Pharyngula. I don't know if it's true; in fact I really hope it's not. But I'd like comments from American catters, especially those of the law/n/order tendency.

Trayvon Martin went to a convenience store in his family's neighborhood to buy some candy. He was 17. He was unarmed. He was black.

George Zimmerman, a self-appointed "neighborhood watch leader", called the police to report a "suspicious person"; he was told not to confront him, but somehow in the next few minutes Zimmerman got out there and shot and murdered Trayvon Martin. The puffed-up coward Zimmerman grabbed his gun, confronted a teenager carrying nothing but a bag of Skittles, and murdered him. There is no possible excuse, no way that there could be some exculpatory fact to justify his actions: Zimmerman was carrying a loaded gun and on a mission of self-inflated importance to defend his neighborhood (which was also Martin's neighborhood) from suspicious young black men.

What do you think happened next, when the police arrived on the scene and found Zimmerman with a smoking gun, who immediately admitted to gunning Trayvon Martin down?

Nothing.

Zimmerman is still free. It's been two weeks; no action is being taken. The Florida district attorney is even dragging his heels about deciding to investigate the murder, and claiming that Zimmerman was a pillar of the community.

Sign the petition. Tell racist goddamned Florida they can't just ignore a vigilante who murders young black people.

It gets worse. Recordings of 911 calls on the night of the murder are available: Martin was screaming for help and begging for his life when Zimmerman gunned him down. And apparently what sent Zimmerman on his macho crusade to stop a suspicious suspect was that Martin was running away.

Why hasn't he been arrested?