Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:32 AM

'Realist' Just be correct and don't let facts get in the way of your prejeudices!

A British National Party member and former (3 times failed) candidate stockpiled weapons and explosive chemicals as he prepared for a civil war in Britain, a court heard yesterday.
Robert Cottage, 49, had amassed an arsenal of dangerous weapons as he prepared for armed conflict in the UK,

He met retired dentist David Jackson, 62, at a BNP meeting and the pair gathered a vast array of different chemicals that could be used to make bombs.

A police raid uncovered a vast array of weapons and chemicals all of which could have been used to kill and seriously maim.
Officers found four air pistols with ammunition, a number of crossbows, a bow and arrow, up to 19 different explosive chemicals and two nuclear protection suits.
They also recovered a 300-page computer document called the Anarchy Cookbook which detailed how to make different types of bombs

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM

David Copeland the killer

"He joined the extremist BNP and became an activist. In 1997 he was photographed standing next to the party's founder John Tyndall."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

White supremacist convicted of plotting bomb terror plot

In one notebook Lewington had written what was described in court as "a chilling mission statement" from what is termed "the command council Waffen SS UK".

It stated: "We have 30 members... we are highly trained ex-military personnel and will use incendiary and explosive devices throughout the UK at random until non-British people as defined by blood are removed from our country. This is no joke."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Realist
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

Message deleted. If you post at Mudcat, you may post under one name, and one name only.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:52 AM

In 1929 Hitlers Nazi Party is the smallest in the Reichstag. Four years later he had taken power and the first thing he did was to lock up or terrorise his parliamentary opponents and then begin the process of dismantling the organisations of German society and its working class in particular.

It was a catastrophe that was directly to lead to the slaughter of many millions. Something that Griffin was to mock and deny.

We certainly can't allow a bunch of Hitler loving thugs to grow unopposed in this country.We have the lesson of history to warn and guide us!Griffin and Brons are two openly racist and fascist MEPs.Part of Griffin's plan is to use the symbolism of English culture [including folk song,dance and customs ] to develop support for his thuggish cadre.

Hence the formation of Folk Against Fascism.On his side he has got the old nazi marching songs while we have the songs of Ewan McColl,Hamish Henderson, Woody Guthrie, Paul Robeson, and so many more. I was told that one of the songs that the anti fascists sang at Codnor on saturday was an adapation of Yellow Submarine..now there is a song being assimilated into the folk tradition!
ifor

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:38 AM

Doh! Haven't you heard? Folkies like last year, the year before rather better, and so on...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:29 AM

Hello Guest fashionista.
Give my fondest regards to Mr Griffin.
And then kindly and sweetly go away.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:08 PM

"It is for the right of all citizens of the Place Called England to play our music as loudly and proudly as we damn well like"
- The Borchester Echo

and on whatever instruments we choose to play the music!

Stand and Be Counted

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:56 AM

Ah yes, the Dowager Lady Jane Birdwood as cited by Mike above, was a truly nasty and dangerous piece of work, aptly described in her Searchlight obit as "a very English extremist". I came across her many times in courtrooms when reporting incitement to racial hatred cases when she was almost always acquitted. The establishment seemed in awe of her title and regarded her as merely eccentric and just a bit bonkers. It is to be hoped that the BNP supported arrested last Saturday on a similar charge while actually under police escort won't be similarly let off. Oddly, she lived in an Acton council flat near an aptly-named pub, The Old Oak, a notorious 1970s nazi hangout where they gathered to sing the Horst Wessel-Lied (yes, they really did, I heard them while picketing outside). It is believed that the fire which destroyed the pub was started by rival nazis. Who knows? Homebase stands there now and the fascists are infinitely more sophisticated. That is why opposition has to be very specific and focussed on single issues. FAF is a bid to wrest English music from the grasp of a few who want to misappropriate it for thir own evil ends: just one strand in the overall anti-fascist struggle which is far broader than a far-left campaign. It is for the right of all citizens of the Place Called England to play our music as loudly and proudly as we damn well like.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:48 AM

oh dear.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:39 AM

t-shits? Canb't wait to get one.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:35 AM

The official website will begin selling merchandise in September. Otherwise, there will be t-shits, badges, leaflets and stickers about at Whitby and Towersey.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: BB
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:24 AM

Does anyone know how one gets hold of stickers for CDs, instrument cases, etc., T-shirts and leaflets? I can't find any clues on the Facebook or FaF sites. Not having been at Sidmouth for the concert...

Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 07:35 AM

Terry, it depends on what the artist signed. That is the effect of a contract.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM

Well, Steve Knightley eventually got his song, Roots, taken off the BNP website, but I think that legal action was either threatened or taken first.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

Does a recording artist have NO control over what use his recordings are put to ? Or can ANYONE Do What They like as long as they pay royalties ?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,MtheGM
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:47 AM

This is not a new situation. My monthly "Taking The Mike" column for Folk Review of April 1976 was about an "Old English Day" being organised by Lady Birdwood, a then well-known precursor of the BNP, which was to include 'brass bands and morris dancers'. I pointed out the true nature of the organisation represented by Lady Birdwood, and warned morris sides to look out for the tendentious blandishments of an invitation to perform in this event, Vigilance was need then and it is needed now. All the negative, and indeed hostile, comments this thread has incurred are patently misplaced. FAF won't stop the BNP in its tracks all by itself; but, as Messrs Tesco never tire of reminding us [in a slogan pinched from a salvage campaign in WWii which some of us are old enough to recall], "Every Little Helps".

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:17 AM

Yes, but this is not simply some nebulous anti-fascist movement. This is a SPECIFIC response to a SPECIFIC set of circumstances. It is about awareness-raising. If you want to fight fascism on some other front, by all means do it. The two things are not mutually exclusive. But those of us who started FAF thought that the threat was real enough, and scary enough, to want to do something about it before it was too late.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM

.... "& find some other front on which to fight Fascism." (to complete the quotation)

John

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:58 AM

John, the reason for FAF (if you read what's on the Facebook site, or one of the leaflets) is to raise awareness of a couple of things that many people did not realise was going on. Firstly, that the BNP are trying to insinuate themselves into traditional events and encouraging members to revive old folk customs and create their own St George's Day and May Day events. What's more, folk musicians and dancers at all levels might be asked to take part in these events, and unwittingly becime part of the BNP's propaganda. This is far less likely to happen if lots of people know what's going on, and feel empowered to question who is backing/funding any events they are asked to participate in.

Now, if you feel that the best strategy for dealing with this is simply to "live with it, ignore it and move on", I guess that's your prerogative. But personally, I would want to know if I was being used/manipulated in the interests of far-right propaganda and/or fundraising. What's more, it's quite possible that, without an awareness of these strategies, some of our most beloved traditional events (which are often organised by a small handful of local people) could fall under the influence of far-right participants, who have no real interest in the tradition beyond trying to hijack it as part of a BNP propaganda campaign.

Thirdly, there are musicians who already find that their music is being used as propaganda by the BNP and other far-right groups, and to raise money for their coffers. They have tried to get the BNP to stop selling their music; the BNP has said that the more they object, the more they will do it. FAF has, once again, been created to raise awareness of what is happening, and to give the artists in question the opportunity to publicly distance themselves from the way in which their music is being subverted.

So there we go: very specific responses to a very specific set of circumstances which have emerged. I would agree that, if this movement were simply about sticking two fingers up at the BNP, it would be pretty pointless and serve only really to stroke the egos of the people involved. But in terms of what the group is for, I think it has already gone some way to achieving its aims.

The next thing is the week of events next year, in which we hope that lots and lots of people will participate - because the only way to get this message out beyond our relatively tiny world is for members to take it into their own communities, and raise the awareness beyond the folk world of this threat to traditional culture and music - because this heritage belongs to everyone, not just folkies. God knows it's hard enough to get the rest of the world to engage with their own folk heritage in any meaningful way - imagine how much harder that would be if it becomes tainted by association with the BNP because we all decided it was much easier to "live with it, ignore it, move on"...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:57 AM

This is also a fundamental misreading of both the history of 'In Dulci Jubilo' and medieval attitudes to music.

The real parallel, as has been pointed out already by various contributors to the thread, is the effect of the Nazi's use of folk music.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:38 AM

John, you appear to have missed some fundamentals of copyright and defamation law, although copyright of course is not relevant to material the copyright in which has expired - and copyright was at most in its formative period as a concept in the 1500s and possibly rather less.

More significantly in current terms, if a recording of a performance of a person (or composition of a person) is used to support a cause, it implies that that performer or composer supports that cause.

If that performer or composer has previously stated that he does not support that cause, then the use of the recording implies that the performer or composer is a liar.

The Republicans in the USA have I think felt impelled to settle legal proceedings brought there by Bruce Springsteen on (I understand) similar grounds.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:23 AM

Message to Steve Harris.
Have just listened to the field recording of the concert. and the aims and message of FaF were clearly stated in Paul Sartins introduction to the concert....I can only assume you missed it. It was blatantly obvious to me....!!!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:02 AM

Excellent John!!......but this is not about the music, it's about ego, hatred, a raison d'etre! On both sides.

I think you must have stumbled into the wrong site, reason is frowned upon here....:0)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John Golightly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:35 AM

There are a few fundamentals here which I think are being missed –

1)        Good & inspiring music has always been subject to hijack/misuse (call it what you will) by those with a particular political or religious agenda. This has happened throughout history.

2)        There's *** all anyone can do about this

3)        Any music worth its salt will generally transcend any spurious association with a political or religious view.

The classic example – in the mid 1500's a Finnish student put together a collection of traditional Folk & dance Tunes, some thought to be already 500 years old at that time, & labelled them as "belonging" (!)to the church. The incentive came from the highest political levels as part of a strategy to bring some peace & unity at what was a very bloody time.
Four centuries later, Mike Oldfield (amongst others) "rescued" some of these tunes & brought them back into the Folk genre where they originated. Amongst the tunes – "In Dulci Jubilo".
(http://soonyritys.net/tapio/PC.notes.html, google "Piae cantiones")

Pieces of Folk music don't "belong" to anyone – they just are. If you agree with that statement, then where's the sense in starting a tug-of-war over an aspect of our culture? It lays you wide open to exactly the same charge, of "using" that music for your own political ends. The fact that you're "against" rather than "for" a particular viewpoint, is neither here nor there.

It's not much of an answer if you feel deeply about Fascism, I know, but the only practical answer to this hijacking is to live with it, ignore it, move on, & find some other front on which to fight Fascism.

John Golightly

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:39 PM

Lest we forget.
Stoke on Trent
and there's more where he came from, just follow the links!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM

could the FaF not gather the royalties of the sales of the BNP and donate it to the FaF? assuming they want to of course, which i am sure thery would be happy to.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:51 PM

"but I'm very keen that FAF should not become a 'left wing' organisation"
- GUEST,Jon Boden
Very well put, indeed, Jon.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Stower
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM

This refers to quite a few posts ago (I have been away for a while) but is an important point of fact:

Howard Jones 13 Aug 09 - 06:53 PM
"Folkiedave, if someone goes to a launch event of anything, whether it's a product or an idea, and is kept waiting for 20 minutes before it's explained to them ..."

Stower 13 Aug 09 - 08:14 AM
"Steve Knightly at the FAF launch start[ed] the event with his song 'Roots' because it has been appropriated by the BNP"

In other words, one important reason for having the event was explained before the first song was sung. Anyone who was actually there would know this.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:39 AM

Artists should try to get a no compilation and no coupling clause in their contracts. But normally you need to have a LOT of clout before a record company will accept that.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

In fact having the image on the disk body is better, and should be sufficient. It would not stop compilations being made of course, as Ralphie says.

The artists would get whatever small %ge they get from retail sales, depending on their distribution contract; but would they want it anyway!?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:44 PM

i forgot about 'ripping' but it would stop them selling whole albums, if they were to burn the logo onto the disc as well as on the cover.

do the artists invovled still get paid for it when used like this?

oooh i feel like scrapy doo.. "let me at em"!!
small but vicious! lol

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 07:21 PM

As far as logos on CDs/Booklets are concerned, I would insist on it in the future.
Sadly any BNP muppet can go and buy my album, rip a particular track and shove it on one of their tasteless compilations (Not tasteless music, you understand!)
Which is why the work that Joan and others are doing is so important.
Dr Goebells single handedly destroyed German and Austrian Volk Music in the early 30's. Think about it. How many German Folk bands have you seen in the last 40 years? None.....The Germans that I know are ashamed of their own legacy. because it was so tainted by its Nazi connections.
Do we want this to happen here?
I don't think so.
And I must echo Anahatas point. If Steve Harris were to turn up at an English Ceilidh (Which I know he loves..Nowt wrong with that)
Only to discover that it was being funded by the BNP. Would he stay or would he go?
And Steve. Which of the three words Folk...Against...Fascism...Don't you understand? It's not rocket science is it?
And why weren't you dancing in the Anchor gardens that Friday lunchtime?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 06:13 PM

Interesting to see they interviewed John Nesbitt.

He's the "hero" of the Rotherham Women's Support Group song about the officer who wrecked a Police Range Rover by using it to knock down a snowman pickets had built around a concrete post. The tune is "John Brown's Body" and the chorus is - "Silly bugger Mr Nesbitt". The picket line took great delight in singing it whenever he appeared.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

John Mckenzie,First states that he is apolitical.
apolitical means politically neutral,with respect how can voting for the SNP and the UKIP be politicaly neutral.
personally I cheer when I hear people like WAV ,and mckenzie voting for UKIP, rather than the BNP these MINORITY groups like UKIP and BNP and English Democrats ,are Made weaker by not uniting,they are all probably infiltrated by establishment agents,just as the left AND TRADE UNIONS are.
remember Ray Buckton ASLEF General secretary,and erstwhile left winger,according to the Guardian,he was reporting back to MI5,on trade union meetings.
the last pragraph is relevant here.

   

MI5 agent 'spied on
    * The Guardian, Friday 1 November 2002 01.38 GMT
    * Article history

MI5 ran an agent to monitor the activities of Dave Nellist, the Labour MP and supporter of the far left Militant group in the 1980s.

It asked the West Midlands police special branch to find an agent to infiltrate the Labour party in Coventry and cultivate Mr Nellist, then MP for the city's south east constituency.

The police special branch also ran a spy in the inner circle of the miners' leader, Arthur Scargill. Given the close relationship between the special branch and MI5, there is no doubt the spy's information was passed to MI5.

The agent, codenamed Silver Fox, provided valuable information about the tactics of the leadership of the National Union of Mineworkers and helped to break the 1984-85 miners' strike, according to former special branch officers.

The disclosures are made in the second programme in BBC2's True Spies series, to be broadcast on Sunday. It also includes an interview with David Hart, a millionaire who was Margaret Thatcher's unofficial adviser. He says he employed former SAS soldiers to protect the families of working miners during the strike.

A former West Midlands special branch officer identified as Dennis describes how, on MI5's instructions, he cultivated Militant supporters in Coventry, including Mr Nellist.

He says the agent and the MP were "pretty close". "[The agent] helped him on a lot of things. He went around with him to a lot of meetings."

Monitoring an MP raises serious questions. Although Dennis says the special branch was monitoring Militant rather than an MP, he admits that they were reporting on Mr Nellist since he attended Militant meetings.

Asked whether he was surprised MI5 put a spy on to him, Mr Nellist replies: "On a personal basis it does surprise me. What was the state doing in investigating, if it was me, an elected MP who had the support of thousands of people in the area to go off and do a job down in London?"

The special branch agent within the miners' union is described by Tony Clement, assistant chief constable of South Yorkshire police in the 1980s, as "at the level where he would sit round the table with the NUM leadership".

John Nesbit, a senior officer of the South Yorkshire police force at the time, tells the programme that the information "beat the strike, there's no doubt about that".

Stella Rimington, the former director general of MI5 and at the time responsible for countering "subversion", has repeatedly denied MI5 had an agent inside the NUM leadership. However she makes it clear MI5 received the intelligence provided by Silver Fox.

Mr Scargill said of the security services' surveillance of him that it was "not only illegal, is not only against the whole question of human rights and civil liberties, but in my view flies in the face of democracy itself".

The programme also discloses that MI5 planted an agent to weaken the influence of Derek Robinson, the union leader at British Leyland's Longbridge plant in the 1970s.

Last week the documentary named two leading trade unionists as police special branch informers. Joe Gormley, the miners' leader who presided over two successful strikes against the government in the 1970s, and Ray Buckton, the long-term leader of Aslef, the train drivers' union, were said to be among as many as 23 "senior trade unionists" who regularly passed information - unpaid - about their tactics to a secret unit of special branch.
who knows which leaders of which parties,are not reporting back to MI5.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: treewind
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:36 PM

Leadfingers:
Well, if what Ruth A. says is true, not a problem at all with new albums, almost impossible with albums in the distribution pipeline, and possible but perhaps costly if you want a repressing done with new artwork (because the pressing, printing and packaging are done all in one automated operation)

Apart from that, a good idea...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:28 PM

I'll try again !!

What is the ptoblem with ANY artist making a CD having the FaF logo on the label ? This MIGHT deter BNP from trying to sell the albums as 'supporting' BNP!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:03 PM

"the same company (or the rights to the music) got taken over by the BNP who unfortunately can do what they like with it."

I don't think the BNP has taken over a company - I think the BNP are simply selling CDs which they've purchased from the secondary distributors.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 12:16 PM

Hopefully the publishers haven't signed up to a sole distribution rights deal and have negotiated with other distributors, and also hopefully no retail outlets (worldwide) will but from excalibur so that there only customer will be BNP.

This can be picked up by music industry journals and maybe retailers who buy from excaliber can be named and shamed.

I don't know how expensive it would be to kitemark back-catalogues as FaF 'approved', but it would be a superb gesture for the folk music industry to set this as a standard.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: treewind
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 12:02 PM

The albums being sold by BNP's Excalibur trading arm are of material that was signed away to a perfectly innocent distribution/promotion company - at the time it must have been like a good deal. I'm not sure what happened next, but the same company (or the rights to the music) got taken over by the BNP who unfortunately can do what they like with it. As I understand it the original artists concerned have no legal power to influence how that material is sold or packaged, unless perhaps some serious (i.e. illegal) misrepresentation can be proved in any of the chain of business.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:25 PM

I have a bell going off in my head about trademark law, EU law, and repackaging, but at this time of night, I am not sure what it is telling me.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:23 PM

that is what i have been saying all alone, we have to stand as one, tell the truth and attack the BNP in every way possible. bringing in new ideas and holding with old ideas that work.

however, if we attack everyone who voted BNP as diehard racists then we will never make some of them see sense.
if some of us are patient with those who can be got to see sense and some of us concentrate on those hardcore who cannot be talked to then we will win.
in fighting is distacting but, we also have to learn to lighten up abit when we feel like we are being disagreed with. we do not have to win arguements with each other. we should be able to see that some people just have a different way of tackling the problem.


logos on cds: would there be any way for the BNP to copy and remove the logos?

would it be possible to burn it on to the disc as well as on to the covers? i know this would be more expensive but we know all too well just how easy it is for those who know how, to mess with printed images.

take care all

and well done to all who went to codnor

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:54 PM

Nice one Jon. Worried you are still in the Labour Party though!!

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:48 PM

If one thinks of the influence of Dylan's songs in the 60s, and the Irish republican songs for much of the last century, while one might argue about whether they were "folk" I am of the view that songs, as a political lever, punch well above their weight (to mix several metaphors).

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Jon Boden
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 02:31 PM

"JOIN A real political party, labour/conservative/wet and VOTE!".

I entirely agree that the best way to oppose the BNP is to engage with and vote for the mainstream political parties. As I understand it the BNP vote hasn't really gone up much, it's just that people aren't voting tory/lib/lab. (Allowing fascists to get in to power is a pretty stupid way to punish liberal politicians for being a bit liberal with their expense allowances imo.)

The main function of FAF is to provide anyone in the folk scene with a simple mechanism to prevent the BNP implying a connection with them. The BNP are less likely to sell folk cds off their website if they have a FAF logo on the back, and are less likely to infiltrate a morris team if that team wear FAF badges on their kit etc etc. The more omnipresent FAF becomes, the harder it will be for the BNP to attach itself to the folk scene in general.

I, along with the other performers at the Sidmouth launch, have no intention of turning my performances into a political platform to denounce the BNP. To do so would be to let the BNP win on one level - affording them influence totally disproportionate to their actual stature.

I am, as it happens, a member of the Labour party but I'm very keen that FAF should not become a 'left wing' organisation. FAF is about preventing the BNP from making British/English folk culture an exclusively white concern, and as such should be of interest and of benefit to all folkies whatever their party political sympathies.

I should point out that I am by no means a spokesman for FAF, just an enthusiastic supporter.

Cheers, Jon

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:13 AM

"For God's sake, please get real, folk counts for nowt!"

While it is true that a small movement cannot win a war on its own, it can win individual battles that impact on the piblic conciousness. But when different movements make a stand against fascism, trade unions, other arts, social enterprises, then there starts to be a joined-up anti-fascist movement that sweeps the country and the far-right become more and more marginalised.


"JOIN A real political party, labour/conservative/wet and VOTE!".

Again... stop making sweeping generalisations about those who are making a stand against the BNP. For information... I do belong to a political party - the Co-op Party. I do vote - Labour.

Anyway congratulations to getting FaF firmly established, and don't get disheartened by those who try to pour scorn on what has happened. The only do it because they know that they cannot preach their ideologies in public forum and debate without admitting what they really stand for so all they can do is "play the man instead of the ball".

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:16 AM

To many of us fascism is an extremely emotive subject.
During my lifetime millions of men, women and children were exterminated for having the 'wrong' ethnic background, for joining trades unions, for not meeting up to the mental or physical requirements for 'the new order'...... or just for saying 'no'.
The two individuals recently elected in Britain belong to a political organisation which has at various times supported these actions, adapted them to fit a British scenario, or denied they ever happened. A number of people on this thread and elsewhere on this forum have lent their support to them, in some cases openly and in others by sneering at the efforts of the people who are attempting mount some sort of opposition.
Personally, I am not in the least surprised that discussion gets heated on occasions.
My apologies if I offend.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:40 PM

I tend to agree with some of the posters who suggest that the immoderate style of some postings here, will be a turn off to those not already converted. I've believed strongly in this cause since day one. But I too find the hostile manner of some postings, to be a real turn off to a cause I wholeheartedly support. Clear and non-offensive/non-personal points have been made by one or two posters making ever so moderate constructively critical comments, and I believe wrongly and highly emotively slated. That's as much as I have to say, as I'm not interested in bickering and bitching. I believe Joan et al are doing a fabulous job, and as soon as able, I'll be getting more practically involved. But, that's as much as I wish to add to this thread, and I feel no desire to participate any further to any threads on this subject. I believe (much as it galls me to agree with LH & Joe on the matter) they are in fact, too often detrimental to the cause they purport to support. My apologies if I offend.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:32 PM

Well PaulF I play guitar and mandocello,(if that's important)

Smug? only to those who don't have the parts to speak their mind in open forum If there were morewho'd do this, we'd be alot further ahead in our fight against fascism.
I think I said a few posts ago, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the front porch, and stay out of the way of those of us who REALLY do want to do something constructive, unlike those folk who would rather bitch and whine and be completely unhelpful

Stand and Be Counted

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: PaulF
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

Ms Beak, you are unbearably smug, and reminiscent of another lady we had posting here, some time ago. She seemed to spend a lot of time playing piano.
PaulF