BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:08 PM

keberoxu. Hilarious. More posts please!

Meanwhile back at the ranch:

Interesting polling by Number Cruncher Politics which asked voters to choose their least acceptable Brexit outcomes rather than just their favourites. The study reveals that remaining in the EU is the least acceptable Brexit outcome to the British electorate,

Another wily ruse is to suspend Parliament. That'll fix em!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM

Gentlemen! gentlemen! -- and everyone else as well --

it's hugely entertaining for a USA ignoramus like me
to watch you working through all of this.

I was unaware that anyone had called some of you 'bastards.'
Not even Max, to my knowledge, called you that,
and at one point he was genuinely upset with you.

The phrase I heard from a moderator was
"sour testosterone."
Hmmm ... wonder if a UK moderator would make a difference?

Okay, I'll go back to keeping my head down, and listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:58 AM

Now you've been and went and gone and done it! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:50 AM

I'm encouraged to see the self control shown so far in this thread. It's quite easy really, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:43 AM

After exploring the links within links in Jack's post below...
All you folks will probably be referred to 150 different websites to stay abreast of the new rules and the conflicting rules that you will still be subject to.

Better keep your smart phones charged if you even want to travel or buy bread and water.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:10 AM

I can’t see any reason why all tax returns aren't publicly accessible, the same way the details of wills are, and the prices at which houses have been sold.
..............................

Those like Theresa May who go on endlessly blaring out about how a fresh referendum would be an affront to democracy and will cause social disruption are in fact acting in a way that must encourage such disruption, by providing justification for it. I rather think that is intentional, pulling in the threat of the mob to intimidate opponents.

Other countries which compare very favourably indeed to the UK when it comes to democratic practices, and a commitment to democratic principles have had second referendum on related issues about the E.U. In the case of Denmark and Ireland the public voted the other way next time, in the case of Norway, they confirmed their decision not to join the EU.

Nobody knows what the majority view in the UK is now. If we think that matters, a referendum at least provides a mechanism for finding that out.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 09:25 AM

Arts Council factsheet on the effect of Brexit on the arts in the UK.

You're fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:28 AM

Some more spiffing news about brexit!

The Remoaners at the ‘Fair Vote Project’ have suffered a humiliating legal defeat in the High Court in their attempts to force the Government to hold a “Mueller-style inquiry” into the EU referendum. The ‘Fair Vote Project’ was essentially set up as a front group for the so-called Brexit whistleblowers with the backing of the cranks at Byline and ultra-Remainers Best for Britain – the sole director, Kyle Taylor, was previously Field Campaigns Director for Best for Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:06 AM

Here's another idea - require all people who are paid to enter national public services (ie MPs, MEPs) to publish their tax returns for all countries in which they declare income for the rest of tier lives, with a 7 figure penalty for failing to do so, doubling each year. Although this would be an imposition for the majority of MPs, MEPs, it would show who does have their nose in the trough benefiting from the disarray caused by leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 07:10 AM

....should have said, "A leading BrexShiteer who preaches Patriotism to the rest of us". Like charity, Patriotism should begin at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 07:07 AM

Just in case anyone is wondering why a leading BrexShiteer would move his business to Singapore...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 05:09 AM

Tory MP asks for help from Poland

What a twerp.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:50 AM

Asked about the background of Brexit, Mr Basu told the BBC:

there was no intelligence pointing to an increased level of attacks after Brexit, but added: "What's most concerning me... is its potential to divide communities and set communities against each other."

But the loopy left also poses a threat!
Britain’s most dangerous export: Corbynism. From Europe's premium policy intelligence service

https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-left-uk-europe-britains-most-dangerous-export-corbynism/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:31 AM

Never thought I'd see the day when I agree with Gideon about anything but, on this occasion, he's absolutely right on the button.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:20 AM

Far-right groups could exploit Brexit tensions

Why does this not surprise me one bit? It was interesting to note the following statement that some on here have been denying.

Asked about the background of Brexit, Mr Basu told the BBC: "We saw a spike in hate crime after the referendum, that's never really receded.

So there's always a possibility people are being radicalised by the kind of febrile atmosphere we've got at the moment."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:17 AM

We need to keep the impetus going then Steve. No deal brexit cannot be allowed to happen, by keeping it on the table May is holding a gun to the head of the British economy. And the British people. George Osbourne was right about this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:15 AM

A glimpse of sanity!



https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/--899440.html

Bobad. Love your cartoon! but I cannot entirely agree with the sentiment expressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:55 AM

I think that I’ll vote for Brexit
Though none of my posh friends expects it
I am fairly sure-oh
I’m not at all Euro
But then again Life’s what you meks it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:14 AM

So does the exit agreement include powers to charge corporation tax to Singapore and Netherlands registered companies?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:58 PM

Wonderful.

James Dyson who has consistently supported Brexit has now announced he is moving the HQ of the company to Singapore.

P&O Ferries are to re-register all their ships to a Cypriot flag, Sony is moving it's European HQ to Amsterdam, away from London.

I feel sure that more and more companies will leave the sinking ship in the next few weeks.

Isn't Brexit ******* marvellous !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:13 PM

Whilst I can agree with your sentiment Dick, I do not have the time to trawl through the accounts of every company I have to deal with.

I do not have a Sky package so I go to the pub to watch most sport. (I do have freesat)

Are you suggesting that I should not go the the pub because the pub pays for a Sky package?

As Steve has already suggested most major companys we have to purchase from (there being little, if any alternative) probably have some very dubious practises.

Short of sitting in the kitchen, in the dark and scratching my arse I have little alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:48 PM

Bye, Dick!

Just a feeling I'm getting, but it looks like the impetus for a people's vote is subsiding a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:31 PM

I will not support Murdoch, a man who played a major part in encouraging brexit and a man who played a part inn organised violence at Wapping, and you support him just so that you can watch football pathetic

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:06 PM

I told you, Dick, you can't run your life that way. I buy stuff from Asda, Amazon, Morrisons, Lidl, Aldi, M&S, Vodafone, BT, Apple, Microsoft, Coopers of Stortford, Specsavers, Tesco, eBay, Ford, Mazda, CPL, Mole Valley Farmers, NFU, Rangemoors at Winkleigh, Waitrose, John Lewis, Costa, Caffé Nero, Lakeland, Woolacotts, Spar, the Esso garage in Bude, Sainsbury's, Trago Mills, Donald Russell, Gloucester Services, the local butcher and the local fishmonger. Within many of those emporia I buy stuff made by Heinz, Colmans, Hellmans, the local dairy, Napolina, Roddas, Trewithen, Kraft, Cadburys, Nestlé, Weetabix, Kellogg's, Yeo Valley, Fairy, Kenwood, Delonghi, Duracell, Energiser, Rowntree, Green and Blacks, Davidstow creamery, Canon, Panasonic, Philips. And that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm not about to delve into the gargantuan task of finding out what all their brexit stances are or who's running all their shows who might be brexiteers. You can if you want to. I decided that I have to breathe at least some polluted air.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM

Another thread killer Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM

Brexit solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:24 PM

NO STEVE I disagree if i owned a television which i used to i made a conscious decision not to support sky or murdoch. i run a festival www.maritime.com i discovered when i paid my radio advertising bill that county sound was now opwned by rupert murdoch so i will not advertisec with them again, that is about having principles. Steve and jim you bang on about brexit but you have no right to because you are financially supporting murdoch, Steve, its more important to you to watch a football match shown by sky than to not give money to murdoch , absolutely pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:03 PM

The road to hell is paved with good? intentions.
The european dream is having a few hiccups.


https://www.rt.com/news/449388-macron-king-executives-execute-reforms/

Note what happened 226 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:32 PM

No deal could cause a spike in adultery!!!!

From guido! It must be right.


https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/project-fling-no-deal-cause-35-spike-adultery/#disqus_thread

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:29 PM

A couple of things. First, the EU contains nearly half a billion people, about seven or eight times our population, so it's arrant nonsense to suggest that the EU will somehow come off worse. Second, the EU is not blocking anything. We started this and the EU has to stick to its own rules. It's actually playing a very straight bat. We are the bad boy who can't expect special treatment.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:11 PM

We heard you first time, Dick. Thing is, if you made a crusade out of boycotting any company or organisation that supports brexit, or has directors or CEOs who support brexit, well frankly you wouldn't be able to live your life. Anyway, Dick, I pay five quid a month for Sky Sports Mobile so that I can watch Liverpool in the Premier League and I'm buggered if I'm giving it up. I'd sooner hack off my meat and two veg with a rusty machete, frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 01:38 PM

Rupert Murdoch was once asked why he hated the EU so much. ‘That’s easy,’ he replied.’When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.’.
Jim, by using sky box you are financially contributing to rupert murdoch and brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 01:09 PM

despite overwhelming evidence and opinion to the contrary.
Evidence? Where is this muythical beastie?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:41 PM

Stanron says, still, despite overwhelming evidence and opinion to the contrary:

"No Deal will damage the EU far more that the it will damage the UK"

And extraordinary statement, which can only be made by someone really quite deluded.

A no deal brexit will reduce UK GDP by of order 10%, and EU GDP by 2-3%.
For the EU its a hiccup. For the UK a catastrophe. The 2008 recession was 6-7% reduction. Only the depression of the 1920s was worse.

So thats what Stanron wishes to "bring on". Economic conditions not quite as bad as the Great Depression. But significantly worse than any we have experienced in our lifetimes (apologies for any one reading who remembers the 1920s).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:33 PM

No, Stanron, it is not fear of the future. You need a border of some form to accomodate a difference. That is as true in politics as it is in physics, chemistry and biology, or in social structures like entrance exams. Borders are associated with difference: no difference, no border. A difference, some sort of border. Fear does not come into in the slightest.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:10 PM

It's hard to explain Irish history to some people

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:53 AM

the EU has confirmed a no-deal brexit would mean a hard border between the Republic and the North. It would be a border between an EU country and a non-EU country. Hard border. Simple.

"So this hard border.
Are they going to install watch towers with searchlights and machine guns and have barbed wire fences with minefields.
And what is the purpose? To keep people out or keep people in?
Smacks of creeping totalitarianism on the part of the beleaguered Brussels apparatchiks to me."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM

Speculation 5. The drivers for leaving would love to see a breakdown of the EU so that individual states can aggressively compete with each other; without realising that if that happened the UK would soon find out that, quite rightly, the UK population would be trodden into the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:45 AM

Another perspective on the Border question:


https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-northern-ireland-backstop-theresa-may-how-brussels-blew-brexit/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:31 AM

That speculation is possibly right Stanton , the EU was actually very shakey before the UK referendum . Leading Brexiteers knew that and wanted to get out first - steal a march on other member states .EU leaders know that Brexit can only work for the Brexiteers at the expense of other powerful EU countries.If the wrecking operation involved in the EU’s most powerful country quitting the bloc is successful then Britain will come out dominant .So the EU leaders are taking steps to prevent a no-deal situation and keep the UK tied to the bloc. Can you blame them?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:19 AM

So Speculation 4 is fear of the future? That's not very healthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:11 AM

It is possible there WOULD be no need if all our regulations etc were the same for all time. But as our declared intention is to change these, a border or some other scheme will be required to inspect matters arising these differences as soon as they arise. Merely being the same at the moment is not enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:03 AM

There is no NEED for any kind of border between the EU and the UK. All our laws and all our regulations and all our tariffs are 100% aligned and identical. The need for a border is an invention of the EU and the reason for this invention is good subject for speculation.

Speculation 1. Based on the fear that other members may be tempted to follow suit and leave, the EU wants to be seen to be punitive towards leavers.

Speculation 2. The EU knows that a significant number, although not majority, of UK citizens do not want to leave. This large minority (actually a majority of MPs) will do their best to prevent Brexit even to the point of damaging the UK. The EU therefor gives as little as possible and asks as much as possible knowing that remainers will attempt to sabotage a successful exit. An example is the remainers insistance that 'No Deal' is taken off the table. No Deal will damage the EU far more that the it will damage the UK. It should be a really good bargaining tool. The remainers do not want us to have such a good bargaining tool. Also of course 'No Deal' actually means leaving. Every bit of any deal we do will tie us to the EU. The softer the Brexit the greater and tighter the ties will be. No deal means we leave and the remainers have lost completely. Bring it on.

Speculation 3. The EU is a psychotic and nonredeemable political experiment that puts an inflexible ideology before the best interests of it's member states and their populations. They would do this wouldn't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:36 AM

The British government’s insistence on upholding the result of the democratically-convened 2016 Brexit referendum is quite understandable .A quandary arises however because the outcomes of the democratically-held referendums in both the north and south of Ireland backed terms reached in the Good Friday Agreement negotiations that require “avoidance” of a physical border on the island of Ireland.

It’s hard to explain Irish history to British people who don’t want to be constantly reminded about Ireland and their country’s own involvement in Ireland’s history. Some in the UK -and indeed some in Poland whose citizens in the UK feel put at risk by Brexit - think that the Irish are being stubborn at the moment and that the GFA –an international agreement - should be set aside or its wording modified or reinterpreted in order to facilitate Theresa May’s Brexit negotiations .

Britain has said that it will not erect a hard border in Ireland : the EU said this morning that it will build a hard border in the event of a no deal being reached. That‘s the dilemma that Brexit has put EU member Ireland in : if Ireland remains in the EU and no deal has been reached , will it be party to breaking the border-avoidance clause in the Good Friday Agreement ? The GFA was worded using the language of “constructive ambiguity” so as to get most parties on side with the deal -the DUP never supported it . All parties will now be looking for nuances in meaning for the word “avoid” perhaps. But it will be difficult for any Irish government to sign up to a hard border.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:06 AM

Steve, when the thread gets really long a couple of things happen - people veer all over the place topic-wise and it's difficult to moderate those few fighting, spam, or non sequitur posts that need to go. From this side of the pond it sounds like the Brexit conversation has entered another (perhaps even more precarious) stage, and it seemed a good time to start again. Any of you who want to review the 2,815 posts of the Brexit #2 thread are more than welcome to look back. I suspect that unless someone is mining it for old links they posted, it the conversation will simply move on from here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:05 AM

That part of the game...

These nasty Europeans will do what they're told because we are British and if they don't, they are bullying us...

Anyway, these threads go nowhere but I couldn't resist one comment on a third restart.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:58 AM

From The Department Of The Bleedin' Obvious: the EU has confirmed what we knew all along but what the leavers shoved under the carpet: a no-deal brexit would mean a hard border between the Republic and the North. Of course it would. We can't expect to be made a special case. It would be a border between an EU country and a non-EU country. Hard border. Simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:43 AM

They walk among us!

Fresh from telling his constituents that he knows better than them, Labour’s Ipswich MP Sandy Martin has claimed in his ‘weekly column’ that the Prime Minister had met with Corbyn to discuss Brexit options. A meeting she offered but the Labour leader famously refused to accept…


https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/know-better-labour-mp-now-lies-constituents/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:27 AM

No they won't. The long, sorry history of Toryism in this country is to prioritise looking after their own (the wealthy, the landowners, the landlords, the tycoons and the fast-buck spivs) and to look after the interests of the Tory party. If they change from that, they won't be Tories any more. Unfortunately, at the moment it's hard to see an effective alternative that would be any different. We just have to keep fighting from within, that's all. The first step is to make sure that Corbyn realises that he's wrong to support brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM

Will this government ever do what is right for the country if they know that in doing so it will divide their support at the ballot box?