Musician's Block?

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:35 PM

You'll find your own voice, Guest. And, I am so appreciative that you started this thread... it's become a companion piece to the Influences thread that grew out of this..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:21 PM

Jerry in your last post you made some very salient points regarding the purpose of "influences" on one's own style, and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on the importance of originality.

Cluin's first paragraph in the post that followed pretty much sums up the regimen I adhere to now, and consciousness-wise, about where I'm at. I haven't progressed much beyond the copycat stage yet.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 04:20 PM

But it does sound a bit like masturbating - Cluin

Different strokes for different folks, Cluin - Jerry

(ummm, yeah...not exactly the first response that came to my mind, but my sentiments are with you, Jerry)

Playing with other people is usually a headache and a hassle, in my experience - Igbo (Fred Miller)

Unfortunately that's been my experience as well...oddly, the players I admire are known primarily for the work they did as "frontmen" within a "group dynamic" as Cluin termed it - not strictly solo performers.

I didn't really mean to suggest that you were being immature, Guest, and if I had, your response would've shut me down about it. - Igbo (Fred Miller)

No offense taken. I was called naive once a long time ago, and I took it as a compliment. I can see some veracity to the term "artistic immaturity" as it was applied to me, especially in the manner in which it was couched within the context of your post.

GUEST--If you're happy, you're happy, but you said you had a problem--
-M.Ted

(yeah, but I'm always willing to lend an ear to anyone who has ideas on how to make a good situation better...as long as the "cure" isn't worse than living with the "disease." Thanks for your input.)

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 03:30 PM

Well, I have learned things playing along with recordings. For instance, a certain chord progression or version of a chord that I liked the sound of and wanted to see how it was done. Also, it is good for practicing solos or improvisations, using the recording as back-up; in that case you just pretty ignore any vocals and keep playing along with the rhythm section, etc.

But I've always used it as a means to an end, namely to play the songs or tunes myself, whether in front of an audience or alone. It's at that point the alterations and arrangements come in, to make the song "my own". Often I will change things significantly over time, sometimes rewriting or writing more lyrics, adding a bridge, key changes, etc. But that's my way.

Yes, a good discussion. Thanks Guest for starting it and to everyone else for contributing.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Sam L
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 03:16 PM

Yes, you're right Cluin, not playing by oneself, exactly. One problem with playing with records is that they don't give you spaces to fill, although you can probably tweak that with your speakers. But still I think you might have to focus on ideas that fit into a rather full house, which is hard, and interesting, but a special thing. I often like crowded lines, many voices talking, but have never played much in that way.
   I used to record and overdub separate parts a lot--playing with myself, so to speak. But I don't have many ideas for it anymore. This is an interesting discussion.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 08:16 AM

I'm really enjoying this thread. It's fascinating to me to be reminded how differently we all approach music. I wouldn't recoomend approaching music like I do to anyone else. I don't that it would be good for them. For example, I don't ever remember playing along with a record. Not even once. From as far back as I remember, other than learning the words to a song (which was always the most important thing to me, because I don't play instrumentals) I never tried to learn by playing along with a recording. For me, music is a personal expression, so I never wanted to play or sound like someone else. I've been influenced by a ton of singers and musicians, and their style is reflected in the way I approach a song, but I never wanted to sound like them. I think I hear another thread starting, here.

I played banjo for twenty years without really learning where the notes were. I had a stretch of about ten years when I played regularly with an old friend of mine, Luke Faust, and it was one of the most musically productive times of my life. That's why I can see where playing (or singing) with others opens whole new perspectives for you. Singing in a group does the same thing.

The quartet I sing in now has learned a good piece of our repertoire from records. I often end up pushing the other guys not to try to copy the record. But, that's how they learn. It takes a lot of encouragement to get them to make the song their own (and our own.)
Learning by copying is a good way to learn. Many people have become wonderful singers and musicians by doing that. But, learning by not copying, giving songs your own, personal interpreation is a good way too. One isn't better than the other. Except for each individual.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:30 AM

GUEST--If you're happy, you're happy, but you said you had a problem--

It is possible to learn to to play really well by listening to and playing along with recordings. In fact, it is even possible to make a living as a musician by playing along with recordings(in fact it essentially what most studio guitarists do) but it is also possible to play along with recordings without ever getting the basic elements of techique down--it is hard to now without hearing you play, but it seems like the problems that you mention are probably problems with technique--

I used to teach guitar, and quite often, I found that people who only played along with records had a lot of weak points in their playing that they were not aware of, but that were significant barriers to making progress--

When I say the experience is shallow, it is because what you do as a player doesn't really contribute to the music--it doesn't fall apart if you are off, and it doesn't work better if you are on--sort of like the difference between pushing a car and walking along with your hands on the trunk of a car that is already rolling--

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 01:34 AM

Not "playing by oneself", Fred... playing along with recordings.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 01:20 AM

Guest, sometimes "OK" is just fine.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Sam L
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 01:16 AM

Well, I don't know much about Zen, but I think it too, is a discipline.
   Playing with other people is usually a headache and a hassle, in my experience, but there's a chance you get lucky and it's a great thing. If playing by oneself is like masturbating, then what's painting and writing? Sure, you hope to get an audience for these things later, but, as has been suggested in this discussion, that response is often obliquely related to what you're trying to do. Ultimately you're kind of alone with your work.

   I was talking to a woman one night who said her boyfriend did and taught theatre lighting. I said something about how the lighting was so affecting because it snuck up on you, filling your frame of reference. She got excited, saying one of his classes was called Frames of Reference! And it um, uh--she sputtered a second then had to admit she didn't know, she hadn't taken his classes. There's a lot of truth in that. The people we know best don't know what we're trying to do most of the time, and we can't blame them.

Another story, in college a visiting artist/slash idiot once asked me what painters I was looking at and I mentioned Klimt. She told me I wasn't interested in him. After looking at a few of my things she told me I liked Ben Shahn. The great thing about this is that I was supposed to like artists only for the things they were duly noted for. If Klimt is known for surface decoration and pattern then who am I to like his color sensibility, that muted sparkle? You are allowed to like Matisse for decoration and sensuality, but not for being a consumately weird folk-artist. People may like your playing for reasons that aren't the point to you, and you should probably let them. You can tell when you're on, and you are right, but your bad nights may crackle with energy too--in a way you can't appreciate, and shouldn't bother to. But I said this already, and so has Hendrix, and Jerry Garcia.

I didn't really mean to suggest that you were being immature, Guest, and if I had, your response would've shut me down about it. Wish you'd pick a name though. My real name's Igbo--named after the African people--but I thought it would be interesting to go by Fred Miller.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 12:42 AM

All true, Jerry.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:13 PM

Different strokes for different folks, Cluin. If you're primarily interested in instrumental music, I think there is a lot to be said for playing with other musicians. It certainly will stretch you. But, not everyone enjoys playing in jam sessions. I don't for one.
That's not to minimize the enjoyment that many of friends DO get from
playing with other musicians. I'm a singer, who uses instruments for accompaniment and my ear is drawn to a small number of instruments or voices... chamber music more than symphonies, small jazz groups more than big bands.

Ears is ears. You got yours, I got mine, Guest has his (or hers.)

Whatever brings enjoyment to the musician is alright with me. It may not be the best way to grow, but that's alright too..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:39 PM

But it does sound a bit like masturbating.

I would highly recommend finding someone to jam with if you can. I've done both too and I much prefer a group dynamic, myself. I like taking the lead sometimes and sometimes doing the back-up and sometimes sharing the lead and sometimes falling way back and watching others have fun.

Adding other "live" musicians into the mix can rejuvinate your playing, teach you so much more about the music, and so much more. And a "block" just can't stand up against all that.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:18 PM

Well, call 'em as you see 'em M.Ted, but I assure you my playing experience is anything but shallow, and what I do, the way I do, works absolutely fine for me and I see no reason to change. You fail to take into consideration that I may have tried other ways as well, and that I've settled on this method as the one that provides me the happiest and most fulfilling experience.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:45 PM

An interesting discussion--I've been meaning to post, but everyone has said everything I was going to say--even still, I re-read the initial post, and it occurs to me that GUEST has set an awfully low bar for him/herself, and that may just be the problem.

Bottom line is that playing along with recordings is just a learning tool, and if you're playing experience begins and ends there, your musical experience is very, very shallow--

Chances are pretty good that your problem with "lead balloon" fingers comes from the fact that you are not aware of when you are holding the guitar properly and when you are not--also, you should be able to play a tune up to speed, with solid tempo, and a crisp, full sound everytime, without the recording--otherwise, you are not playing, you are just fooling around--

Playing music is a discipline, and a very demanding one--don't mean to offend, but, all this "Zen" and waxing poetic about Rory Gallager and Shawn Colvin seems like a an easy way to avoid doing the work--

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Sam L
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:13 AM

A few more thoughts. One way to look at it is that your instrument is like having a slot machine, and you put quarters into it, and sometimes you hit a jackpot. But they're still your quarters. And you have to stick to that process of losing, or you won't hit.

No offense Guest, but I think you and I may both suffer from a kind of artistic immaturity. Or maybe it's you and me and everyone else. There are so many good musicians who seem to be at peak so often, but maybe it's an illusion, because you look from this one to that one, whoever whenever it's working. And even the best who seem to have a hold on what they're doing--they maybe are trying for something more, and don't get to feel good about it.

   One thing there should be a name for is that elusive shimmer of quality that stays always relative to any objective measure of technique or sense. When I first rough in a painting there are always immediate qualities as good (or better) than the ones I settle for when I finish it, and they draw you into the picture relative to the general level of finish--when it develops more, those first glimmers don't work so well, and different effects tend to come forward. It's strange, and I don't know what to call it--some sort of current of convection. But simple and crude musical effects seem to me to achieve something at their level that more sophisticated music or playing can't do, at the same level. It has to do it in a different way at a different place. There ought to be a name for that engaging and convincing quality that keeps moving just ahead. I suppose what it is though, is a sense of discovery that the player shares with the listener,discovering and identifying with something, so that you aren't merely playing AT people. Holding onto it is probably the psychological problem of being able to discover the same thing all over again.

Pretty banal insight on my part--performers talk about this all the time. But I'm not much of a performer type person myself, never got comfortable with it. Old cliche's seem pretty fresh to me when I'm the one thinking of them.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 09:05 AM

Bit of a thread drift but I wonder how many Mudcatters suffer a mental block over playing a particular piece of music?
It's happened to me a number of times and it usually involves playing something simple. Most memorably, when I used to play in a blues band we covered Gary Moores' "Too Tired" which involved a simple opening lick traded between two guitars. The other guitarist would lead off and then I'd come in with a horribly fumbled reply and the band would all crack up. No matter how many times I played that damned lick right at home, I rarely managed to get through that song without one or all of us doubled up laughing.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:54 AM

Jerry makes an important point about playing regularly with a group of people, the ability to laugh at yourselves when it goes wrong. It's inevitable that someone in the band is going to mess up at some point but it takes time to be comfortable enough with each other to laugh it off instead of trying to cover it up.
I've known the guys in my band for many years and the teasing can be merciless at times but the audience seem to enjoy those "off" moments as much as the rest of the night because they see how much fun we're having with it.
"It even seems easier to accommodate unfamiliar audiences than those who have seen what I've had to offer"
Very true, GUEST,perplexed, but it can also have a rejuvinating effect on the player and the material. Songs that you may be tiring of take on a new life when you get to perform them to a new crowd.
Your point about good times being less condusive to creativity also strikes a chord(sorry) with me. I know a couple of writers, my brother in particular, who only ever seems to write when his life is in the doldrums, whereupon he becomes prolific, if a little maudlin.
Your slump sounds all too familiar but it only takes one overheard song, concert, gig, twist of fate and you're back in love with your music again.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 07:46 AM

Now, you're talking about a different phenomenon, Perplexed Guest. Take the unpredictability of how smoothly the music flows for an individual and multiply it by three for each individual who joins in.
I have a quartet, and we've been together for seven years... the last five with the same four people. Keeping the quartet together, let alone being able to play as one has bee very hard at times. We've had very few ego problems, and everyone enjoys each other thoroughly, but there are so many external problems of health, schedules and personal issues that have to be dealt with that are outside of the group, that the times when everything flows are hard to come by. And can't be made to happen by shear will power.

For us, it's been the worst times that have created the closeness we have now. It isn't the nights when everything has flowed, because as often as not, the next time has been a major let down. I think the key to all of this is commitment, whether you're an individual or a group. If you accept that like everything else in life, you're going to have your ups and downs, then the times when nothing seems to be coming together won't be upsetting. You know from experience that if you just believe that the next time of flow is just around the corner, just go with the times when things aren't right. Step outside of yourself, and have a good laugh. That works for individuals as well as groups. When I'm singing with my group and we're messing everything up, we're laughing as much as singing.

Like most attempts at getting things right in life, laughing at yourself is a wonderful antidote for taking things so seriously.

Man, sometimes I can't do anything. Sure is funny, sometimes.. Rather than get frustrated, I just laugh it off and go do something else.

Nobody can be on, all the time. It's not under your control.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST,perplexed
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 03:11 AM

I had one of those off nights just last night. The mood was left over from the previous evening. It'll pass, but until that time it becomes a challenge to not lose perspective. Maybe it's a Moon phase that alters our course and sends us into an uninspired slump. It is a good idea to have some place and/or some other activity to retreat to when these moods strike. Taking one's mind off difficult circumstances by moving into another area of interest or stepping away from what may be an off situation can help to clear your mind and allow you to see things with a renewed vision.

Being something of an idealist, I've often wondered why so much angst seems to surround my involvement with musical activities. Creating music and performing with others seems to depend upon the participants uniting toward a common goal of harmonizing with one another and yet I have experienced some of the greatest difficulties in my life with those same folks. When things are happening right it can be absolute heaven, and then there's the other side of the coin that always seems to rear it's ugly head. I'm not so blind as to deny the existence of the negative side of life. It is after all eternally and inevitably tied with all things positive. I guess, like Guest, I just figured that after all these years of practice and working together it'd be easier to be able to find and maintain that joy that comes from giving, playing, and harmonizing together. It seems that the closer we manage to progress toward that goal, the greater the obstacles have become. It causes one to question. Why continue to pursue this musical passion when the reward is only ever counterbalanced by an equal measure of turmoil?

I once thought that working with other partners might be the key. Finding different folks to play with helped for a while, but ultimately it led right back into the same kind of cycle. That saying about familiarity breeding contempt might be applicable.

It even seems easier to accommodate unfamiliar audiences than those who have seen what I've had to offer. The former has fewer expectations and are generally open and willing to give a listen, while the latter becomes split into two distinct positions of either wanting more of the same, or demanding something new or different. While those wanting more of the same can be easy enough to please by performing their requests, that other bunch can get a bur in their britches if you are unable to meet their insatiable desire for more, but different, material. Having that kind of an audience to contend with, a slump in the creative juices is a never welcome occurrence.

It might be time to set aside the musical toys and explore expression in some other art form for a while like Mudlark is doing.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 09:52 PM

Good one.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM

Mooh, my buddy and I tell people we like to give 60 percent... with gusts of up to 80.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: C-flat
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:44 PM

I think I may have peaked and missed it!
C-flat

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM

I think I peaked in 1989..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:13 PM

Apropos the "dead" audience which, after the concert, expresses enthusiasm, somewhere I read an anecdote that went something like this:

The teller (whoever it was) was in a comedy act on stage in London, I think it was, and expecting a boffola reaction. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Without that stimulation, the actors were sweating and doing their best, and were down in the dumps at the end.

After the final curtain there was an opportunity to mingle with the audience, and the actors were full of dread, given the lack of reaction during the performance. A woman came up to the teller (whoever it was) and said, "Oh, it was SO funny! It was all I could do not to laugh out loud!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:36 PM

Good topic, and some great replies!

I can't add much except to say that a musician can't be playing at the maximum of their abilities all the time or they'll burn out fast...kinda like a sprinter sprinting a marathon, there's nothing in reserve. I often hear the remark "Gee I didn't know you could play that way" from folks who only know me as a celtoid when I do a rock or theatre show or something. I don't want to peak too soon so I take it easy. Still, when inspiration dissipates I go back to basics as others have said. Anytime I think I'm brilliant I know I'm self-deluded, self-impressed, and in need of a tune-up...back to the theory I go.

Rest, self-inspection, a new lesson, exercises/drills/scales...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:55 PM

"Inspiration comes in streaks and we're lucky that it does even that" is a profound remark I am hereby stealing.


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST,Susanl
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:56 AM

I think that Jerry Rasmussen's eternal youth contribution is about as accurate as it gets.

Things happen in cycles and they're out of our control. The thing is that if you keep at it, the larger pattern will progress. If you don't, it will digress.

Control what you can and leave the rest up to what happens.

Inspiration comes in streaks and we're lucky that it does even that.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:28 AM

I'm not a pro by any means, but I have noticed that an audience...I don't mean a paid audience, just somebody actually sitting still, listening to me play and sing, will often give me a boost of adrenalin, I guess, that boots me into that zone. If the blahs last for very long, you might try playing along with one of those popular musicians, but with a real live person listening as well. It's a lot scarier, but a lot more fun that doing scales for 30 min. just to keep your calluses going.

And I agree with Jerry...every artist is hit with this at times. As a potter there were times when I came off a 4-hour session on the wheel just zingy with bursting with energy, row upon row of flawless coffee mugs, say, or mixing bowls. Other times even the simplest shapes came slowly and with difficulty...and a 4 hr throwing session was pure torture. A change of pace almost always helps.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:58 PM

Jerry - the U.S. Air Force has (or had) a motto apropos of quests: "Aim High."

Joybell - "Your brain goes on setting up the pathways even when you're not playing." - Boy I hope so. After a bout with trying to learn a particularly difficult passage up to speed - and not making progress as fast as I'd hoped - I often visualize fretting the notes and 'hearing' them played in my head, so that maybe the next time I sit down to play I will have made some uh - headway. Sure hope all that mental exercise pays off.

McGrath - my approach to learning/playing/practicing music is two pronged. First, I don't read music all that well. So the way I learn new tunes or passages or phrases is by comping along to a piece of recorded music, trying to match the chords or notes of the particular tune, especially if there's a phrase/solo/melody/passage in there that catches my ear. I'm a copycat. In this aspect, I don't think I'm that much different from other musicians who play and learn by 'ear.'

Secondly, after I'm comfortable with a piece of music, I may try to 'elaborate' on it a little, especially if it's a chord pattern I like. I may improvise my own little solo, or just experiment with the way different scales sound over a chord (getting into theory here, which isn't my forte...what I mean is for example playing an A major scale over an Amaj chord, then switching to a pentatonic minor scale over the Amaj chord etc)...what some people call 'noodling around.'

I don't recommend this approach for anyone, but it works for me.    Granted, it always keeps me confined to a "work in progress" status, but that's where I'm happiest, in the Zen state of "becoming" rather than "being." It's just a hobby, a self-centered hobby, because the only person I'm trying to improve, entertain, satisfy, or please is me. I couldn't very well expect live musicians to play I-IV-V over and over for thirty minutes while I work out a solo, or grind away on an E chord for eternity while I play scales up and down the neck. And I certainly wouldn't expect an audience to be impressed or entertained by that.

But Wes Montgomery is more than happy to play the same four bars of a particularly beautiful solo over and over, all night long if need be, and at half the speed, while I try to work out a harmonic solo under him. Rory Gallagher never complains when I force him to play a particularly catchy turnaround a thousand times until I nail it. Neither does Eric Clapton. Jimmy Reed doesn't mind me sitting in with him occasionally, and he doesn't nix any of the musical ideas I add to his compositions. And Shawn Colvin isn't angry when I brazenly steal her fingerpicking style. Hell, night after night I'm playing with some of the best and most popular musicians on the planet.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:29 PM

I meant either or both. But if you like playing along with the musicians on a record, I'd have thought that means you do like playing with other people, rather than purely as a solo player.

I'm not knocking the idea of playing with records - I find it bloody difficult actually, because you don't get any of the hints of what's going to happen next that you get in person (even when you don't notice them). And being bloody difficult probably means it's a stretching thing, and that's good.

But for the feedback there's nothing like playing with other people. I don't mean criticism and praise and all that, but the sense you can sometimes get of being lifted and playing better than you thought you could.

You can get that with people listening to you as well - and it can also be encouraging when you get an indication that someone out there thinks you were playing better than you thought you actually were playing, on this occasion...

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Joybell
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM

My music teacher once told me that if you are having problems, or think you are, with page three - go to page thirty-three. In other words switch to something more difficult for a while. When you come back to page three it's suddenly easier. I'm with Jeri about switching instruments or styles. I think it's the same idea. Also not playing at all for a few days sometimes helps. Your brain goes on setting up the pathways even when you're not playing. Joy

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 04:34 PM

You realize, Guest, that your desire is comparable to other such quests as eternal youth and an honest man. It a desire that every creative person has, whether they are a painter, photographer, poet, musician or writer. If only we could stay "on" all the time. There's probably a Monkey's Paw warning in there somewhere. The one thing that I do believe is that the most important thing is to keep on keeping on... in some ways, it's the times you sit down and play even when things aren't flowing that are most important. Kinda like life.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 02:30 PM

Thanks for the comments, all - Cluin, your advice to go back to basics when not in the 'groove' ..and Fred Miller, to tinker around with sound/accoustics/technique etc are both good suggestions that I will take to heart. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: smallpiper
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:44 AM

At a guess Guest I would say that the band were more relaxed on the second night. They'd done the first one which is always a hard gig to play, relaxed for the second one and the third well they were preparing to move to the next venue.

Practice time is when I push my self hard, make mistakes and get frustrated but when I am performing (be it to an audience, a cd or radio) is when I try to relax and just let the music do its own thing. It sometimes works and sometimes it just doesn't like when I actually start thinking about a tune I am playing that is when I am bound to go wrong and even forget the tune completely.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 01:56 AM

Right Jerry. I sort of misunderstood McGrath's comment when he said 'you don't get much feedback playing with records.' I took this statement in the context of his previous statement, which I interpreted to mean he thought I should get out and 'play along with' other musicians, but maybe he meant an audience all along.

But you said "often the person least likely to know if they're "on" is the person who is playing..."

I can't comment on a musician's perspective as it relates to audience feedback or appreciation of the particular player's performance, but....

When I'm jamming along and improvising to whatever looped segment or chord pattern of recorded music I'm playing to, I know when things are clicking and when things aren't. I can feel it. The creative juices are flowing and the improvisational lines seem to come from somewhere else, and my playing is more lucid, freer, looser, daring, adept, exciting? ...and I'm making up stuff that I didn't even know I could play.

Then other times, I'm not. And the playing is ...ho-hum. So how do you increase the liklihood of the former situation and minimize the chances of the latter?

Before someone suggests the difference is in the amount of chemical refreshment circulating through the bloodstream...no.

These days, the strongest stimulant in my system is caffeine, but usually the effects of that drug have worn off long before I sit down in the evening to play. But I am getting high off this...phenomenon, when things are going. Every musician knows what I'm talking about.

An aural example that illustrates this marvel perfectly (but probably doesn't belong on a folk and blues forum...oh what the hell) is Frank Zappa's Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar set.

Zappa used musical 'bridges' between familiar songs (so the liner notes say). These consisted of improvisational jams based on simple chord patterns. Three consecutive nights he played Odeon Hammersmith, London during the month of February in 1979.

The first night..so-so. The band played the 'bridge,' but everyone sounded like they were reading it off a chart. Not much inspiration.

The second night...gangbusters. At the 'bridge', each musician sounds like they're at the top of their game and psychically tuned to each other. The collective result is indescribable.

The third night...back to chart reading. Rhetorically speaking, which night were the musicians really clicking? Literally speaking, what was so different about that night compared to the other two?

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM

I do understand what you're saying, Guest, and I do believe that while music is connection with others, there are times when I pick up a guitar and everything is right there, and it's great fun to play. I know it's flowing, because I feel it in me. I don't need an audience to tell me. Other times, nothing seems to flow.

Now, with an audience, sometimes it's hard to tell, and most performers (at least the ones I enjoy knowing) are harder on themselves than they should be. Some audiences are stiff and unresponsive, even when they are enjoying the music. About the least responsive audience I ever played for, and I labored for an hour and a half trying to get them to react, swamped me at the end of the concert and suddenly were excited and told me how much they enjoyed it. I could have used at least a faint sign of life while I was up there, sweating bullets. I've gotten more enthusiastic responses from a herd of cows. And, there have been times when I was definitely not "on" as far as I was concerned, and got a better response than I felt I deserved.

Same with writing songs. Some songs I've written I think are really stupid and embarassing, and there's always someone who likes the song and asks me to do it.

All this only goes to show. Often, the person least likely to know if they're "on" is the person who is playing..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Sam L
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:53 PM

I have a few ideas. I knew one talented electric guitar player who couldn't play at all if he didn't like his sound. Maybe you need to tinker with your acoustics or find the right voice for the occasion, playing lines, or chord-fills, or muting, or whatever, to feel you have something to say. I paint, and when I begin to get disatisfied with the general direction of my style, I get slower and slower, until I can't finish anything.

   On the other hand, it may be that your feeling about it is simply not how it comes across. Sometimes it feels horrible when you do good work. You don't get to be your own admirer. Tape some things, wait, then see if there might be some truth in it.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:47 PM

We tell when we are 'on' by the audience feedback. We know when we are 'on' by how it feels. Everybody has good times and bad times. Most times, only the musicans know when it is bad, if they are any good at all....I don't see how playing along with the radio can tell you if it's good or bad....sorry.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:35 PM

No thanks, McGrath...not my thing. Not looking for feedback from other players - I just like to 'play along with the radio.' I can tell when I'm "on" and when I'm "not on" by how well I play along with the tunes. And I'm interested in ideas on how to foster consistently good music sessions when I come across those times that I'm not playing along with the radio very well.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:25 PM

Sounds to me as if you might perhaps get and out and play along with some real people. You don't get much feedback playing with records.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:05 PM

Hey Guest... thanks for starting this thread.

How much someone is "on" on any particular night is always a little bit of a mystery. Sometimes for me, my mind really isn't focused on the task at hand. I also know that there are times when I feel like I have completely messed up a song, and am amazed when people applaud... I expect them to throw tomatoes. Never do a concert at a Farmer's Market..

The opposite phenomenon is when I go back to an instrument I don't play regularly, like banjo, I find that I've gotten better without even practicing. Go figure. I figure if I hadn't practiced so much, I might be a virtuoso by now..

Only goes to show that if music was mechanical, mechanics would be the best musicians..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:38 PM

Loxford got it.

If you don't feel inspired to solo, just get in a groove. It will probably sound better anyway, and like Cluin says, back to basics.

Just because you're bored with having played the same thing a million times, doesn't mean the audience has to be--if you're lucky enough to have one.

I once saw Natalie MacMaster play a very prestigious gig--National Arts Centre--starting in a totally lacklustre fashion that suggested complete exhaustion. After awhile though, she got some audience rapport going (in fact, she made contact with an old schoolteacher in the crowd!) and her full charge kicked in.

A stereo won't do this for you--but if you have an audience and don't feel inspired, maybe its request time. Borrow some energy from them.

W-O

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST,Loxford
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 03:51 PM

Yes I know it well.
It certainly does pay to be well rehearsed and simplify your playing when you are not feeling inspired. Simplicity is just as effective and it's a lot easier than screwing yourself trying to play at your limit when the mood just ain't available.
Who knows what the magic ingredient is? It certainly is worth putting some thought into your mental attitude.
I play a sport and similarly wonder why I thrashed everyone last week and this week I can't hit the damned thing!
Watch athletes before they compete, the psyching up is of huge importance to their performance, I guess for a musician it's worth indulging in something similar.
Best of luck,
Loxford

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 02:14 PM

As a pro, I often find the antidote for the blahs that hit sometimes is to just improvise everything on stage all night. We never play anything exactly the same way twice. Keeps it interesting and you get used to flying by the seat of your pants. Sometimes you fall flat but I've never met an audience member yet who held it against me. On the contrary, they like the concept of being part of a jam or "happening".

Another good tip for those days when you pick up the instrument and it doesn't seem to click... concentrate on the basics. Scales, Warm-up exercises, chord progressions, fingering patterns, the nuts-and-bolts of the craft. Try and limit the emotional content when it gets in the way. Then just put the damn instrument down and go read or watch TV instead, once you've done your callus-maintaining duty. No use getting fed-up with your playing just because the biorhythms aren't right that day.

If it's a paying gig that night, just rely on the "pro" mentality kicking in later when the job starts. I've always found it does and the music gets made well enough. Audience enthusiasm adds a lot.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 01:59 PM

I think the thing GUEST mentioned about pros being able to perform even when they don't feel like it has a lot to do with what MMario mentioned about people not noticing. An average audience member won't notice a pro's having an off night as long as the pro doesn't act like it.

You can't fool yourself though. I have periods when I don't feel like playing anything and others when I can't stop. I think you have to just go with the flow, except for the times when just starting to play will make you want to play more. I think you have to keep playing through those times, at least a little. If they last long enough, you'll lose some of your ability.

Sometimes switching instruments can help. If you only play one instrument, maybe you could switch tunings or learn a new style. If it's one of those things where you sound like crap to yourself whatever you do, maybe listening to someone else will help. Who knows what causes those crappy sounding times. Maybe mood, maybe the air pressure and humidity, what you ate for dinner, or string mites. They happen to me too.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: C-flat
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:50 PM

I'm pretty sure that what happens to you (and the rest of us) is more mental than physical. The only difference between a bedroom player and a pro' is that the pro' is usually gigging well within his/her capabilities and his/her "off night" is less obvious than yours or mine.
Most professional players aren't actually creating anything new during a performance and will more likely have played their pieces a thousand times before which makes for a consistancy that could almost border on boring, so it's great to catch a good player on a good night, really enjoying themselves and stretching out a little.
I have long periods where I don't seem to learn anything new and can't string two chords together but then occassionally have a burst of creative energy and can write one song after another. Whether they're any good is a little difficult for me to say but the creative process is something I have no control over. Fortunately nobody's paying for studio time but I'd hate to have that kind of pressure to write.
Good topic, Guest.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:29 PM

Don't know why it happens - but it does. Of course there are times when it FEELS like it is happening; and you struggle through anyway (usually in a performance situation) and then you find out no-one noticed.

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:24 PM

Oh good point Chief ... I'm not just looking for input from pros. Anyone who has an idea/comment/whatever, jump on in.

But for me what winds up happening is that everything sounds like crap. It seems to be more of a mental thing that manifests itself physically, as if on some days I forgot most of what I know about playing music. Lack of concentration, maybe?

Subject: RE: Musician's Block?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:15 PM

Not a pro or even close. But, everyone has down moments. Sometimes I play and I'm inspired others...Blah!
If I find this happening I switch music to how I'm feeling. Blues and sad, slow songs usually help. At least if it doesn't sound great my heart is into it.