Is this what a UK folk festival is like?

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:00 AM

Thanks Snuffy

Rog

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Muttley
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:00 PM

Been to a couple of small festivals over here in Oz (until I got drawn back into the bike scene and they turned into rock concerts again) and enjoyed them.

Must say that i never noticed the fighting aspect mentioned in McClean's article but the drinking - though NOT to the paralytically-pissed-and-falling-down-belligerently-wasted stage was ever seen. That kind of behaviour was always confined to the rock weekends at various biker concerts I attended. As for 'copulating up close' - as many have said - is there any other way? This, too was observed far more frequently at the rock weekends than the folk ones (in fact NEVER at the folk ones) - probably because they were all doing it "up A close" somewhere (and if the closes in Keith are as small, winding and dark as some of those I saw in Edinburgh while I was there 18 months ago - it'd be almost a perfect location for a quick, passionate (or maybe just hormone-fuelled) 'knee-trembler'.

Sadly, I no longer attend folk festivals here any more. Probably due to my low esteem of my own abilities since, head-injury related brain-damage left me with the ability to play only from my song-sheets (carefully collated into songbooks) with the chords placed so I can work out what I am supposed to do and where and also to my limited playing ability using the simplest of chords and chord changes. I kind of feel that I am 'cheating' by playing thus and would feel I was cheating others by playing thus TO them at such a festival. Thus I only busk occasionally to "satisfy the itch" to perform again.

However, that said, Keith sounds like a great festival (visited the site via the 'blue clicky') as do some of the others mentioned. Mind, the really quiet ones sound a little TOO dull - I love audience participation and enthusiasm so long as it doesn't impinge upon respect for the musician and distract him/her.

Maybe next time I'm in the UK I'll time it to coincide with a festival or two.

Until then; Slainte

Muttley

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:30 PM

"I'm very suspicious when I see bad behaviour blamed all on 'the locals'"

I wish I could share that sentiment - but I've often seen exactly that sort of situation - and in our beloved Maritimes. And, for that matter, in our beloved Cape Breton. It's not because the "locals" are less civilized than people elsewhere; it's because rowdies from other places don't bother travelling to a folk festival, but for the local rowdies, it's right down the road - so why not?

And like the other fellow said, they're often "young people enjoying themselves" - it's just that their brand of enjoyment doesn't fit into the folk scene.

I'm speaking with some authority, having been in my day both the local rowdy and the indignant folkie.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:09 PM

Rog Peek,

Lots of versions of the Dundee Weaver on these two threads, but no tune. I learned it from a Dubliners recording.

Lyr Req: The Dundee Weaver
Lyr Req: The Dundee Weaver

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Drumshanty
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:01 PM

Bee makes a fair point. But as Guest 12:15pm said, that's the way it is. Would it happen if there wasn't a festival? I don't know. Last year, a policeman told me that the Saturday night was no worse than a normal summer Saturday and my elders tell me that Keith has always had a bit of a wild reputation.

Last year, at Kirrie festival's farewell concert, one of the guests made a comment about the rowdiness going on outside the concert hall. He said, "They're no different from how we were, just young people enjoying themselves." He's a well respected musician and he certainly gave all us complainers pause for thought.

It is sad when people like Guest 12:15pm stop coming - it means we've all lost out. But it's perfectly understandable. There's a good chance I won't go back to Muchty until there's a secure campsite, but I'll always feel it's my loss.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:51 PM

There's a tradition involved here...

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:36 PM

Anahata asked once, and I'll ask again ~ how does the same writer describe the hapopeneings in Austin TX?

Just curious

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:24 PM

Though from the other side o' the sea, I'm very suspicious when I see bad behaviour blamed all on 'the locals', as if the populace of small towns lose their minds when strangers stop by.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

I went to the first 20 or so festivals at Keith, and used to enjoy them greatly. Around the early 1990s, the type of behaviour described by Duncan McLean in his book became all too prevalent, and for that reason, I , and many other singers and musicians stopped going. I have no reason to disbelieve his account of what he encountered, and have no difficulty whatsoever in believing it to be accurate and unexaggerated. It needs to be emphasised that this behaviour is by the locals and not the singers and musicians who go to the festival to enjoy themselves. The problem is that they just don't get the chance. There is very little respect for Scotland's traditions, its' music or the players, although it has to be said in the festival's favour, that the concerts are always popular and well-attended, usually sold-out. The local committee do put in a lot of work for their festival, and deserve better from their community.
I can't comment on festivals south of the border, [ so it's a bit sweeping to ask "is this what a UK festival is like ?" ] but Mr. McLean's description rings true for several of the folk and traditional festivals in Scotland in the past few years, and that's from someone who's been to them.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:09 AM

'Not in the public eye' eh? - Then I guess Snuffy must be right!

Bye the way Snuffy, like the ditty, is there a tune?

Rog

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:57 AM

Meself says it well (although I also wonder if it was Celtic Colours the poster meant). If a Cape Bretoner pays good money to listen to a performance, then they darn well listen. I'd guess most of us would think it highly rude to sing along unless invited.

I do remember some messy weekends at the long defunct Atlantic Folk Festivals in Nova Scotia. Lots of drunks, a few fights, a bit of mud-blood-and-beer, and no doubt a fair amount of random copulation, although not in the public eye.

Other music festivals, like the Bluegrass I'm more recently familiar with, consist of people listening to stage performances, and participating enthusiastically in 'field pickin'' when the stage has no performers. It's my favourite part of the festival, going around from campsite to campsite enjoying the random assemblies of musicians. Often many of the stage performers are also jamming with any musician who shows up at their campsite.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:34 AM

Not "up close" then, but "up A close"

Noo a' ye Dundee weavers tak' this advice frae me
And never let a Glesga lad an inch above yer knee
Never stan' at the back o' a close or up agin a wa'
For if ye dae ye can safely say yer thingamyjig's awa'

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:10 AM

Just wanted to say I'm playing at The festival of the Peaks and belvoir festival this next month or so, and if anybody would like to enliven my dull contemporary navel gazing songs aboout the meaning of life, by taking drugs and copulating up close - I feel sure the organisers will applaud your efforts with gusto.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Betsy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 06:08 AM

LOAD O' BOLLOCKS IF YOU ASK ME.
I've been to loads of festivals , been in Inverness when the MOD ( Spelling/Abbreviation ?)was on,which was a bit too lively for me drink-wise. The MOD (with apologies as noted earlier),is purely a gathering for Gaelic culture in Scotland and it changes venues yearly. Again ,apologies,I never witnessed anything like what has been written in Mr McCleans account, and I am definitely not seeking to shift responsibility from a Folk festival to the MOD.I've been to Carrbridge ,Inverness Fest,even been up to Thurso Festival (far North ) where many of the venues were alcohol-free held in schools and the like, so , I don't know how Folk Festivals (or as I roped them in) the MOD is getting tarnished with this account.
Foe example in England,in all its 25+ years running, the now defunct(new location) Redcar Festival, the organisers never discovered had any drug use/misuse,apart from one occasion when one couple were discovered in the audience smoking a joint. They were instantly ejected without refund.
I can't tell Mr.McClean what he saw, but, Jim Dixon (the Thread opener) says "Fair or not it's a vivid piece of writing".
My only comment is : if it is vivid , what the Fuck does "Couples copulated up close " mean ? Did we expect thenm to doi it remotely / or at a short distance - the mind boggles !!!!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Drumshanty
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 06:06 AM

I'll declare my interest first. I've been at every Keith Festival since the late 1980s, and the website that Giok pointed up is mine. My parents were on the committee from the mid 1980s until a couple of years ago, and I have also performed there a couple of times. For me, it was the best weekend of the year until I widened my horizons a bit and started going to other festivals. "Wanting to go" didn't come into it; it was my one and only outlet for my love of traditional music for a long time.

And yes, I recognise Mr McLean's description, up to a point. Especially the plastic glasses, the copulating up a close and the fighting. The locals used to pour into Keith from miles around and spend the weekend drinking. If you walked down from the square to the Royal at 2 in the morning, you'd be ankle deep in shards of plastic (the cooncil somehow made it all disappear by 7am, which never ceased to amaze me). It was, as far as I understand it, a real thorn in the side of the committee and over the years, I have met many people who just would not go to Keith Festival because of its reputation. And sadly, the behaviour described eventually drove the musicians off the streets and into the pubs so that you rarely saw a street ceilidh develop in recent years.

Where I would disagree with Mr McLean's account is his inclusion of the musicians and festival-goers in his description. OK, so we all take a drink, but the majority of the people who came to participate in the festival stayed off the streets, and played at the ceilidhs and dances and sessions. So although the majority of those who Mr McLean saw on Mid Street when he was there could not have cared less about the music, plenty people came who did, and they still do.

Depending on your point of view, the situation was improved greatly a few years ago when a by-law came in to prohibit drinking on the street and Moray Council, in its infinite wisdom, refused to allow the main street to be closed on the Saturday of the festival. The police do a difficult job very well; the pubs are so full that it's not possible to keep people off the street during the festival, so they, up to now, have used a light touch and kept everyone happy. And while the attendances at festival events have remained steady, or risen, there are definitely far fewer people on the streets in the late hours.

Jack Campin's point about Auchtermuchty Festival is a good one. My crowd were driven off our pitches at the campsite two years ago because of the yobs and their behaviour (Muchty has been particularly bad these past few years), and latterly at Kirrie Festival and Girvan, the same things have been happening, although on a smaller scale.

But to answer the original question, no, I don't think that my beloved Keith Festival was typical of UK festivals. In the past few years, as well as Keith, Muchty and Kirrie, I've had brilliant times at Orkney, Innerleithen, Glenfarg, Border Gaitherin, FifeSing, Dunblane, Skye, Stonehaven, Newcastleton (a bit scary, but still), Penicuik, Linlithgow, and Whitby. And, frankly, I'd encourage everyone who has music to share to go to them all. If we stop going, they win, and that is an intolerable thought.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:20 AM

This is what's happening at Keith Festival this year. Please note the number of competitions, and Scottish Folk Heritage events, and ask yourself how many English festivals are doing as much of this type of cultural nurturing?
Also note, the total absence of the ubiquitous, even mandatory, half dozen 'Big names' that seem to feature in almost all English festivals of any size, every year!
Giok

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:10 PM

Sorry Jim Dixon. Must have had ANOTHER bad-humour night.
Didn't mean too fly off the handle and get too personal or insult you.
It's just that when I saw your opening thread and the article you quoted I guess I saw red and went into defensive mode to protect and defend my precious Isle.
I am still not sure if you meant to stir things up over the pond but from your reply I gather (and hope) that you did'nt and did not expect such a stinging reply.
So please do have an answer and come back to this thread.
In true British style I apologise for my comments and respect your point of view.
It's actually a good debate but it does show how the MEDIA does go for the jugular when they consistently choose to focus only on bad and negative news.
What's wrong with good news where we can applaud our achievements?
Anyway, why would you really "WANT TO GO" to such a Festival as described in your opening thread?

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:15 PM

Been to two in Scotland and one in Ireland. There was a lot of beer drinking in Ireland, but nothing like the description.

Enjoyed them all.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:02 PM

I find if I moderate my intake of alcohol, I can usually stay out of the fights, wherever they may be ...

By the way, have any other of you Brits been to Celtic Connections? I'm just wondering if Puck's take on it is typical of visitors from overseas ... if so, I could mention it to someone involved in its organization - wait a minute, I've been thinking of Celtic Colours - Puck, if you're still out there, is that what you were talking about, or were you talking about something related to the Scottish Celtic Connections festival?

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:19 PM

If I can stay out of the fights, I want to go!!

Peter.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: skipy
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:18 PM

Come on over Jim, you pay the fare & I am sure loads of us will GIVE you a free ticket!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:12 PM

Regarding the festival description which he found via Google, Jim Dixon writes as follows: "Fair or not, it's a vivid piece of writing:"

Well Jim, before you take it as gospel, please consider the following points.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" has been a guiding principle of mass-media journalism since the days when the only mass medium was the itinerant ballad-singer.

"Man bites dog = news. Dog bites man = no news" is an equally traditional rule of the journalist's craft.

"Music festival enjoyed by thousands of well-behaved fans = half a column on an inside page". Whereas "Drunken fans riot at festival" = front page article (with journalist's name in big letters under the headline)."

Or to put it another way: "Journalist goes to festival and reports that lots of people enjoyed themselves peacefully = no big step forward in journalist's career." Whereas "Journalist goes to festival and reports that a violent orgy occurred = (guess what?)."

Draw your own conclusions.

Wassail

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: terrier
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:10 PM

If I were to be torn between going to one of two festivals on the same date, one south of the border and the other a Scots festival, there would be no contest. Give me the north of the border fest every time. Why? Better quality music. Better quality singers and more important, everyone is there because they feel the true importance of the music. They really WANT to listen and be part of it.






I just paused for a while befor I hit the submit button ;D

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 05:27 PM

"When people go to concerts there, they go to listen." That's of course true in our festivals (listen and of course sing when that's appropriate). But concerts are only a part of what happens in a festival, and not by any means always the most important part.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:37 PM

Re: Celtic Connections. Never made it there myself so I'm no authority - but it is generally understood and recognized to be a unique festival in its format. It is a series of small concerts, and most people go to them to listen to music. Maybe it is a North American thing, but if I did go, it would be with that intention. And after a few hours of that, after the concert(s) wrapped up for the night, I might head to a bar to see who I'd run into, and yuck it up with some old friends I hadn't seen in years ...

I'm not really a big attender of folk festivals in general, to be honest. But what I've seen on this side of the water is, typically, a number of small outdoor stages and a main stage on which there are PERFORMANCES - the audience watches and listens, laughs, sometimes a few people dance informally - any "participation" beyond that usually depends on whether the performer asks the audience to participate in some way. Sometimes there are "workshops" in which participants are welcome to participate. Sessions as such are peripheral, hit and miss, and, in Canada at least, I don't think you'll find much in the way of "sing-arounds". Unless I'm hopelessly out of date. Which is possible.

Cape Breton has an exceedingly rich musical culture, and music is available there in many contexts year-round; some of those contexts can be very boisterous and participatory, but when people go to concerts there, they go to listen.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 12:16 PM

Unfortunately I know of one festival - Cnapan - which pretty much collapsed under the burden of the beer tent. I stopped going when the crowds in front of the stage became so boozed up and loud that there was no point in the performers doing anything other than big-sound rocky numbers. I think some of the original organizers are trying to keep it going on a much smaller (more accoustic, more local) scale but I don't know if they're succeeding.

There's another festival that *should* go belly up - started as a folk event but went more and more rock oriented. I took my 15 year old god-daughter a couple of years ago, just for the day, and she was seriously unimpressed by the drunks and the litter. They've got one small stage left which is designated 'accoustic' now and that seemed to be the only space worth visiting.

sian

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 12:02 PM

It certainly doesn't match my experience of UK festivals. It is true that alcohol is part of the folk scene to an extent which doesn't seem to be matched in North America - folk clubs and sessions are usually held in pubs, and a festival whicht tried to run with no beer would quickly fold! However the overwhelming majority of festival-goers are good-natured and there for the music, and I have never witnessed any trouble, let alone actual fights. Or actual copulation, for that matter...

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,puck
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 09:57 AM

Jim ...this has not been my experience of British folk events of any sort. Yes we drink,and yes we do get invovled at all levels,singarounds, sessions, particularly chorus singing even in concert events, and booze is an integral part of the joy. This is in stark contrast to my experience of folk across the Atlantic. I refer to a two week holiday orgaised around the Cape Breton/Nova Scotian Celtic Connections a few years ago. There was zero audience participation whatsoever... everyone sat in rows sitting quietly - tapping feet was the most anyone was allowed to do. Transatlantic folk music was served up on a plate, even the late night venue was treated as an audience event and you talk of no-one listening to the music and just being interested in the booze ....my lingering memory is of trying to listen to Tony Mcmanus [ probably the finest and most subtle guitarist on this earth ] stopping mid-tune to beg the audience to shut up and listen. Unfortunaely he was ignored as the audience hadn't even notiged that he had stopped playing. Sad overall advert for Canadian Folk and folk.
Likelihood is your experience was a one off,esp. the fights, as indeed I hope mine was. Sadly I fear that participating in singarounds or sessions is limited or non existent across the water. Please prove me wrong.

P

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 09:39 AM

I commisserated with a couple of coppers patrolling a small Village Music festival in Oxfordshire - I was told that they LOVE Folk and Jazz festival work , as all they have to do is look out for the locals And draw the overtime pay ! Folkies and jazzers drink all day and stay happy - Its the Rock and Pop festivals where they have a coupe of pints of lager and start looking for a fight . And that was a direct quote from a policeman !

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 09:22 AM

"eveyone is jusst rising to the bait!!"

Not really. Only Soldier Boy, really.

It's seems to be true enough that drinking seems to be a much more accepted and expected part of the folk scene back here than in the States. But I seem to have missed coming across the fighting and the public copulating.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: treewind
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:48 AM

Just Google for teledildonics.

A.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:07 AM

"Well if anybody can show me a different way of copulating other then up close, I'd be interested to learn."

Check around - there must be a device you can hook up to your computer to manage it via the internet ...

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:54 AM

Lost me on the first (large) paragraph great puddles of spilt beer Not usually!, The sound of hundreds of people tramping up and down over splintering, crackling plastic glasses if the pubs don't provide proper glasses then that is why people often carry their own drinking vessels. Fights broke out here and there, Sounds like the town might also be hosting a soccer match at the same time, and the two have become intertwined!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 05:43 AM

Sounds a bit like the" Ranch-house " ( The NAAFI ) in Plymouth on a Saturday night when the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were stationed at Seaton Barracks !!---But not a folk-festival as we know it ! Mind you, I"ve seen some broken glass, aggro, and blood running down faces at Wimborne over the years, but that"s always been the province of the local yobs, never the "folkies". In fact, the more people that take up and enjoy folk-music, the less violence there will be in the world ----that"s my theory !!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,kampervan
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:56 AM

Wow. Talk about light the blue touch paper and stand back.
I reckon that Mr Jim Dixon's tongue is very firmly in his cheek; he's being a leeetle bit provocative and eveyone is jusst rising to the bait!!

Just smile and nod indulgently.

P.S. if the festival described is still being held, where is it? I want to go!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:50 AM

I haven't been to Keith, but that was pretty much what Muchty has been like some years. There are some people who are very much there for the music all the time, others who are basically waiting around for a few acts they really want to hear, and a majority of locals who are mainly there for the beer. Some of the locals do get pissed enough to fight, though I've never seen public copulation. (We need a new verse for the Jake Thackray piece where Isabel does it under the Jimmy Shand statue).

I don't see a problem with it.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:31 AM

"copulating up close?"

Interesting, is it possible from afar?

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:30 AM

Well if anybody can show me a different way of copulating other then up close, I'd be interested to learn.
Keith has had problems with heavy drinking and the odd argument, but not amongst the folkies, it is the locals, and those attracted by the never ending availability of beer.
The piece reminds me of a report on an Eisteddfod written by Dylan Thomas, and I suspect the writer got a dose of verbal diarrhoea from drinking too much local brew.
Giok

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Sooz
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:59 AM

Watch your blood pressure Al!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:57 AM

Given the Scottish setting, to me it reads as a piece of very old fashioned racial stereotyping.

The ground covered in broken beer plastic conjures up a few familiar memories though, Cambridge FF especially.

It's only a bit of fiction isn't it? There's more than a grain of truth in it, but it's been spiced up and exaggerated to suit a tabloid front page.

What was the festival in Austin,TX like, that this was supposed to be compared with? Tea and cakes on the vicarage lawn? I doubt...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:30 AM

the copulating sounds okay - sounds like an interesting sort of floorspot, where is this place...?

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:26 AM

Oh yeah... AND he said if this was what it was like, HE WANTED to go!
Whack Fall The Dya
Nick

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:24 AM

Soldier Boy I think you are welll off base on this, in that you are being unfair to Jim.

"Jim Dixon it is obvious that you started this thread to be some kind of self-important,puffed up, controversial,devil's advocat,stirring up trouble over the pond." ??????

He said he found it, did not write and said fair or not it was vivid writing. Realy who has an axe to grind against folk fests?

Sometimes folkies get a bit full of themselves, as we all do. And your charge at Jim? I think it is one of those times.
Cut him some slack.
Nick

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 12:06 AM

Oh, Jeez, Soldier Boy, I never thought it would come to this.

Let me sleep on it. Maybe I'll have an answer for you tomorrow. Maybe not.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:27 PM

Don't know anything about UK folk festivals - but it sounds a lot like my father's account of Election Day in Arichat (Cape Breton), circa 1930 ...

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:16 PM

Jim Dixon it is obvious that you started this thread to be some kind of self-important,puffed up, controversial,devil's advocat,stirring up trouble over the pond.

The fact that the piece quoted is not by your (unfair) hand is immaterial, it is still a deliberate and intentional attempt to besmirch the good name of UK Folk Festivals.

Other contributors have been very tolerant and gentlemanly with you but this makes my blood boil!
I am probably rising to your over-inflated challenge and falling into your trap, but who cares, here's a piece of my mind.

The scenario described by Duncan McLean(a Scot)is more akin to English football supporters abroad and has absolutely no resemblance to the typical folk scene in the UK.
As skipy says, any trouble is usually created by the local drinking fraternity and never by the easy going,merry and convivial folkies.

I have never in all my years attending British folk festivals come across the behaviour described in your opening diatribe,
True UK folkies never look for trouble and fights do not break out. If they did they would vote with their feet and never return to that festival again, and bad news travells fast.

Also,in my experience, the average temperate UK musician/singer will pace themselves so that they will not become too inebriated to spoil their ability to play instruments or to sing.
And if they do they will soon be frowned upon or ignored by the rest of the people in the session.

And as for copulating in the streets I think someone has been reading too many novels set in 19th Century London!

So come on Jim, you said you want to go to festivals described by Duncam McLean. This is either tongue-in-cheek or you are one sad person. Either way you won't find what you are looking for in the UK!

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: skipy
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:31 PM

33 years of attending, 22 years of running festivals, never seen a punch thrown, had several early hour of the morning problems to sort out but NEVER, NEVER from the folkies, ALWAYS from the locals.
Long may it stay that way & I am totally sure that it will.
Skipy

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:24 PM

It has familiar elements, and if he had never experienced a UK FF before it is probably an honest account of his impressions.

It doesn't describe a festival as I have experienced one [why would it, I've never been to Keith?] and McGoH's point is well made. In my experience plastic glasses are not that widespread, and the drinking is slightly more restrained, spirits not being widely favoured. The copulation is not generally quite that public, though extravagant cuddles are widespread, so I suppose it's easy to make the mistake.

I have almost never seen anything which could fairly be described as a fight. I have also seldom heard "dull, clumsy-fingered, tuneless" music at a festival, I reckon he gives himself away there.

I have seen widespread enjoyment of performances both splendid and less-splendid, occasional drunkenness of an epic scale and commonly of a minor. I have experienced great joy, great kindness and hospitality. I have seen people reach heights they could only dream of, and sometimes plumb unimagined depths.

I guess I just enjoyed my festivals more than Mr McLean, maybe he got unlucky.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:21 PM

In 47 years around the folk scene, I have never seen litter as here described, nor seen fights break out at a folk festival.

Plenty of music played, sung, and listened to. Plenty of heavy drinking (sometimes, but not often, to the point of oblivion).

I have never attended a festival north of the Scottish border, so can't testify to that situation, but the description seems more akin to the scene of destruction after rock concerts, or raves.

I have serious doubts as to the veracity of the writer's account, and a deep suspicion of his motives, especially as UK folk festivals are generally family oriented affairs, and I would never have allowed my kids anywhere near the one described.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Is this what a UK folk festival is like?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:14 PM

I haven't attended any music festivals in England, but I have been to several in Scotland - and I never saw anything like that! Yes there was drinking but I didn't see anybody drunk causing a disturbance - nor did I see any fights and certainly nobody "copulating up close"! At the concerts as far as I could see everybody was paying attention to and enjoying the music, and at the pubs (fringe)most people seemed to be engaged in the sessions, either playing in a group with others or enjoying the music. There were conversations going on as well - but i really had the feeling that people WERE there to listen and enjoy the music! At the Festivals I've been to it seemed to be mostly older folks although of course there were all ages there - just most of the people appeared middle aged or older. I stayed around till the wee hours listening to the sessioneers and even at 3:00 am the music still sounded good to me!