songs with a slipjig beat

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 09:07 AM

Re : clueless don - PM 
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:21 AM 
I have heard an old Irish (or Irish-American) song, sung possibly by the McNulty Family. I don't remember the title,…..

:-) good one
That song is here
Grandfather Bryan (Collected by Kenneth Peacock) 


My grandfather Bryan he died,
It was on St. Patrick's Day,
He started out for the next world
Without ever asking the way.

Leaving me all of his riches,
And a good deal of wealth do you see,
And a pair of his cloth-leather britches,
That buttoned up down to the knee.

He left me the whole two sides of a bacon,
Only one half was just cut away,
A broomstick with the head of a rake on,
And a field full of straw to make hay.

A blanket made out of cloth patches,
A breadbasket made out of tin ware,
A window without any sashes,
And a horse-collar made for a mare.

He left me a mighty great clock, too,
With brass wheels which were made out of wood,
A key without ever a lock to,
And a stool to set down where I stood.

His beaver to sport all the summer,
His whiskers to wear in the fall,
A bagful of guinea-pig's eyebrows,
And a boxful of nothing at all.

He left me some whiskey for drinking
And a beautiful stick, look at that!
And a fat Jersey heifer for milking,
With a tail of B. John Thomas' cat.

A pair of bone studs made of leather,
A satchel of old wedding rings;
Two earrings to wear in wet weather,
With a bucket of horse-stinger's wings.

He left me, poor man, a great fortune,
And a puncheon of juniper tay,
Two shares in the Rock of Gibraltar,
And a mortgage on Robin Hood's Bay.

He left me his trousers and waistcoat,
The tails of two shabby old coats;
A fortune to do me forever,
With a boxful of Union banknotes.

He left me some pastry for eating,
Oh, the creature before he did die,
Two bluchers to put me poor feet in,
And a slice of bumble-bee pie.

A pair of wet cuffs for the winter,
A red nose to hang out for a sign,
So I'm fixed in grand style for the winter,
God bless you, old grandfather Bryan!

Then hurrah for old grandfather Bryan,
I wish he were living I'm sure;
And every day he'd be dying,
He'd leave me ten times as much more.

".... Variant of a Burke Ballad collected in 1952 from Gordon Willis of St. John's, NL, by Kenneth Peacock and published in Songs Of The Newfoundland Outports, Volume 1, pp.55-56, by The National Museum Of Canada (1965) Crown Copyrights Reserved. ....####

Kenneth Peacock noted that this type of zany Irish humour has been the inspiration for many locally-composed Newfoundland ditties of recent vintage.

Per E. Cobham Brewer's Dictionary Of Phrase And Fable (1898) bluchers are half boots; so called after Field-Marshal von Blucher [1742-1819]."

&
googlebooks Recentering Anglo/American Folksong: Sea Crabs and Wicked Youths

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 10:37 AM

GUEST

No bother to some of the guests/mourners! ;>)>

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 09:48 AM

...coffin ... being borne out of the church ...

I've now got a vision of the bearers doing a slipjig to "Ride of the Valkyries" :-)

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Speaking of Wagner...

A few years ago, when the coffin carrying Tom Munnelly, noted Irish folklorist and song-collector, was being borne out of the church which the parish priest had kindly lent to his agnostic friend, Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" was played over the PA. Way to go!

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 08:11 AM

Here's Mike Waterson singing Sorry The Day I Was Married:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO9Ggv2pkhA

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 07:05 PM

 "Only say you love Mr Callaghan ..."

Would that be from words put to Barney Brallaghan then?

Page 307/308 

Melodist, and Mirthful Olio;: An Elegant Collection of the Most Popular Songs, Recitations, Glees, Duets, &c. &c. Intermixed with Many Originals, and Some of the Most Favorite of Dibdin, Moncrieff, &c. Embellished with Humouous Wood Engravings.. (Google eBook)

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Betsy
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 06:11 PM

There was a song Mr Garbutt used to sing ...don't remember the exact Title.
It's refrain went ... "Only say you love Mr Callaghan , don't say nay, charming Julie Flanagan".
Hope that bit of information may assist he - always reckoned it was a slip-jig timing

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 15 Apr 15 - 01:23 AM

The Galway Races.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: clueless don
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 08:38 AM

Of course, The Ride of the Valkyries does have words. They are:

Kill the Wabbit ... Kill the Wabbit ...

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 07:54 AM

I've just realised (doh) I can change the emphasis of the phrasing for sorry the day I was married so that it does work! This is quite a learning experience actually. I am realising that to sing a slipjig you have to have a tune that doesn't move around too much between high and low and that has gaps for breath. It also helps if the words can fit the accents of the beat i.e. on the 1 and the 3 and the 7. I was reading up on Arthur O bradley and the full English group took the words from the archive and put them to the tune of when Larry was stretched. This might be a good future project for me....just need some time to do it! Anyway thanks everyone for indulging my slipjig obsession.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:23 AM

very interesting about 9/8 in classical music, I will explore that some more, thanks Freddie. I've always been v interested in 9/8 in turkish and eastern european music where the accents are v different. Leadfingers I absolutely love your friends way of using football teams to determine the time signature, thats great!

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 11:14 PM

Slight Thread Drift - An Old Friend (He's sixteen year oder than me) and still a fine fiddler has a simple way to sort out Time Signatures ! If 'Rangers Celtic Rangers Celtic' fits the Rhythm its a Reel in 4/4 time - If its 'Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton' its in 6/8 - A Jig .
IF it's 'Liverpool Everton Manchester Liverpool Everton Manchester' thats's a Slip Jig in 9/8 .
If 'Everton Derby' fits , then move over Dave Brubeck that's 5/4 !

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:42 PM

(... sorry, going a bit BS here, it's late...)

Now this would be fun at a folk club if you could find some words...
Wagner - Ride of the Valkyries ?

suggested on the classical site where they were struggling to find much in 9/8
http://sonsofsibelius.proboards.com/thread/1156 
(video link lower down the page there)

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:34 PM

I've just listened to a mid recording of fill the tankard lassie and its a great tune and the words are nice and simple with some spaces for breathing so thats my favourite so far. I'll have a go at singing that tomorrow!

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:12 PM

that looks promising

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 06:45 PM

This has had words put to it The Fair of Bellaghy/The Swaggering Jig

but, otherwise, searching 9/8 there seem to be just tunes.
Even putting in '-slipjigs -slip' brought up slipjigs with no words but it might be worth spending more time there.

9/8 not slipjig abcnotation.com

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:56 PM

thats more like it...killer to sing though, but yes, that great as its definitely slip jig and the phrasing goes with it

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:53 PM

Nead Na Lachan (uses the tune The Foxhunter's Jig)


Nead na lachan sa mhúta
Nead na lachan sa mhúta
Nead na lachan sa mhúta
's cuirfidh mé amach ar an gcuan thú

Curfá:
Haigh dí didil dí didil dí
Haigh dí dí dil dero
Haigh didil didil dí didil dí dí
Dí didil dí dero

Béarfaidh mé currach is criú dhuit
Béarfaidh mé currach is criú dhuit
Béarfaidh mé currach is criú dhuit
's cuirfidh mé amach ar an gcuan thú

Ceannóidh mé slat agus d'rú dhuit
Ceannóidh mé slat agus d'rú dhuit
Ceannóidh mé slat agus d'rú dhuit
's cuirfidh mé amach ar an gcuan thú

Translation:
The duck's nest in the moat (repeat 3 times)
And I will send you out on the bay

I'll get you a curragh and crew (repeat 3 times)
And I'll send you out on the bay

I will buy you a rod and line
And I will send you out on the bay

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:36 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I still haven't found quite what I am looking for. I want something that really has the accents in the phrasing of the words and that also feels like a good womens song to sing. Sorry the day I was married fits the bill with this but you kind of have to sing it half time with the beat so the phrasing goes with the accents of the slip jig beat. I really like that song but would really like something along the lines of rocky rd to dublin. Keep the suggestions coming, it looks like a lot of these songs are going to be irish or scottish. By the way I do like the burns one a lot but not sure I can get away with them pronunciation wise and I am supporting Dick Gaughan for my next gig :-) Not sure that would wash!

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Young Buchan
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:17 PM

Follow Me Up To Carlow

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 10:11 AM

Fill the tankard lassie,
Fill the tankard hinny,
Fill the tankard lassie,
Tell us what to pay.

The barrel it is gone,
The beer it is all bad,
I cannot fill the tankard,
Hard away me lad.

Must be more verses somewhere?

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:49 AM

Small print of Bert Lloyd's insert note to Iron Muse reads "'The Drucken Collier', known also as 'My Dearie Sits Ower Late up', 'The Poor Coal-cutter', 'Dorrington Lads Yet', etc ... first published by Peacock."

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Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:44 AM

Also played several versions of the Drunken Piper on Youtube - different tune entirely.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:41 AM

Just dug out & checked my old The Iron Muse LP-33rpm of 1956, Topic 12T86, & played first track --

Miners' Dance Tunes, played by the Celebrated Working Men's Band: Newburn Lads, The Bonny Pit Laddie, The Drucken [sic] Collier.

The last of these is most definitely the tune we are discussing -- KT's Dorrington Lads/MC's Byker Hill.

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Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:33 AM

Just dug out & checked my old Irin Muse LP-33 of 1

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:32 AM

Thanks for Dorrington Lads tune link & the tips on the beat.
I love the 9/8.

Going back to the wiki, it's also mentioned on (wiki/Slip_jig), about the dance, it seems to say in the 9 beats the steps go
1 , 3 1 , 3 1 , ,    (or 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 )

I can hear that in Rattling, Roaring Willie
but when I listen to Arthur O'Bradley & Sorry The Day I Was Married the strong beat seems to be on the first of the triplet.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: clueless don
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:21 AM

I have heard an old Irish (or Irish-American) song, sung possibly by the McNulty Family. I don't remember the title, but the song is in slip jig time and one rendering of the chorus is

Here's to me Grandfather Brian
I was he was livin', oh sure.
and ev-er-y day he'd be dyin'
and leave me ten times as much more.

The song catalogs the various items that the singer inherited from the estate of her late Grandfather. The items are all pretty much worthless.

Don

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 08:21 AM

doc tom:- Rather the A phrase of Dorrington Lads as played by Kathryn Tickell. But same tune as the one that the group called the Celebrated Working Men's Band (nonce-name -- Colin Ross et al) played on The Iron Muse album under title I give above. Not unprecedented, is it, for a tune to have more than one name in different versions or contexts; nor for two different tunes to have same title?!

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Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 08:11 AM

Jim, it's the Madden Collection, as I'm sure you know.

Sir Frederick Madden's Collection of Broadside Ballads

'Housed at Cambridge in the University Library, this vast collection of eighteenth- and nineteenth-century broadside ballads is possibly the largest and most important collection of such material yet discovered.'

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: doc.tom
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 06:08 AM

I always thought MCs Byker Hill tune was the 'B' phrase of the 9/8 pipe tune Dorrington Lads (see Northumbrian Minstrelsy) not The Drunken Collier (which must be a version The Drunken Piper). Bonny Black Hare is, I think, in 8/8 split 3-2-3. If you want another 9/8 song tune, try John Applebey.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 05:48 AM

Re Bach & folk dance analogues -- Sheep May Safely Graze has a strong resemblance to an Israeli hora tune I recall from about 70 years back called [to trancribe to Latin alphabet] "Boh Dodi Al-Ufey Hagornah".

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Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 05:41 AM

Bonnie

The same thought struck me about Jesu a long time ago!

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 05:00 AM

Add "I hae a wife o' my ain" to Vic Smith's list from Burns.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:48 AM

Thompson (thanks for the helpful advice re the iPad, which I'll try), Boys of Old Erin the Green is in Colm Ó Lachlainn's Irish Street Ballads - the original, I think, not his second book.

BTW if you speed it up a bit, the obbligato to Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring makes a dandy slip jig. Just sayin...

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:35 AM

thankyou Jim, an interesting and unusual song.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:07 AM

'Bonny Black Hare'?

'Ranter Parson and the Cunning Farmer's Wife'.
Dick Snell found this in the Madison Broadside Collection in Cambridge and put his own tune to it.
I sang it many years ago at the Poulton Festival and the main guest (can't remember his name) asked if I minded if he recorded it - I believe he did, but I never heard it, nor did I ever hear anybody else sing it - still one of my stand-bys
Jim Carroll

The Ranter Parson and the Cunning Farmer's Wife.

It is of a sly Ranter Parson, for preaching he lived in greet fame,
Near the town of Romford did dwell, though I dare not to mention his name
Likewise of a jolly young Farmer, a neighbour who lived hard by,
And soon on the wife of the farmer the Ranter he cast a quick eye.

While the farmer his business did mind, and. rose with the lark in the morn,
The ranter was forming a plan how to crown the young farmer with horns
He oft to the farmer would go and preach for the good of his soul
But when that you hear of the joke I'll warrant you'11 say it was droll,

The ranter, if you had but seen, you' have thought he was free from all evil
But though pure as a snow-drift without, within was as black as the devil.
One day, as the farmer was out, thinks he, I shall gain my desire;
So unto his house he did start and he sat himself down by the fire.

He says, my dear lady, I'm told, your husband won't come home tonight,
I value not silver or gold if I can but enjoy my delight.
Oh then, she replied with a smile, my husband is gone for a week;
The ranter he little did think how she meant for to play him a trick.

When all things were silent at night she whispered these sounds in his ears
The best bed it   stands in the parlour, and you may go to it my dear,
And when you are safe got to bed, my dear, I will come with all speed
Alright, says the ranter, make haste, and so was the bargain agreed.

The ranter he jumped into bed and he lay there as snug as you please;
The lady slipped into the garden and brought in a fine hive of "bees
She carried them into the parlour and threw them down slap on the floor
So nimbly then she ran out and on him she locked the door.

The bees began buzzing about, the ranter he jumped on the floor,
So sweetly he capered and danced while they stung him behind and before.
Till at length he got out of the window since no other way could he find.
His clothes he ne'er stopped for to take but was glad for to leave them behind.

All smarting cad sore with the stings he ran home to his wife in his shirt,
Such a figure of fun for to see all besmeared with the mud and the dirt.
Next morning the farmer came home, as I for a truth have been told,
In one of the ranter's side-pockets found thirty bright sovereigns in gold.

The ranter he got in disgrace, the farmer he laughed at the joke
To think how the ranter would look without breeches or waistcoat or coat.
The ranter he frets and he pines to think: at the loss of his money;
And the farmer though he lost his bees thinks he is well paid for his honey.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:57 AM

Know the feeling, MartinRyan ;)

I can't find a recording of Boys of Old Erin the Green, and have never heard of it - any links?

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:44 AM

Ooops, Thompson! You're right, of course, re fadas on an iPad - I was thinking of my MacBook.

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:18 AM

How to get a fada on an iPad or iPhone: hold your finger on the vowel you want, and a selection of accents will be offered - slide over to the accent you need.
On a Mac: option (alt) and the vowel you want. (And if you want an umlaut it's opt-8 then the vowel, a grave is opt-tilde then the vowel, a cedilla, opt-c then the c.)
On a PC: ctrl-alt-vowel.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:52 PM

Gie us Some Brose and Butter.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Stanron
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:58 PM

And then of course there's the old English 3/2 hornpipes. I have wondered if these were the origin of slip jigs. There's a tune book in Manchester Central Library published in 1730 which is about 50% 3/2 hornpipes. Three pulses again but the slower tempo means there can be far more elaborate footwork. These are tuneful melodies and would make an excellent basis for songs.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,Bonnie, yet again:
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:47 PM

Getting back to songs, there's also The Boys of Old Erin the Green.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:35 PM

Yes, three pulses to the bar as I mentioned above. But the emphases are different.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: Stanron
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:21 PM

There is a connection between 9/8 and 3/4. If the beats in 3/4 time are swung or triplets you get almost the same rhythmical effect as 9/8.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:01 PM

mazurkas are very different from slip jigs, slip jigs are nine eight, mazurkas are three four, unlike waltzes they have an emphasis on the second or third beat.
Slip jig refers to both a style within Irish music, and the Irish dance to music in slip-jig time. The slip jig is in 9/8 time, traditionally with accents on 5 of the 9 beats — two pairs of crotchet/quaver (quarter note/eighth note) followed by a dotted crotchet note.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:50 PM

Hi Bonnie

You should be able to produce í on an iPad using alt-i? Works for me anyway. Whether it will always survive on other systems/browser combinations is a different matter!

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,Bonnie and iPad
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:47 PM

It is also in O'Neill's under the title Ellen O'Grady.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: GUEST,Bonnie Shaljean on a cranky iPad
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:42 PM

Vic, it's played in Ireland as a slip jig, Caitlin ni Aodha. (Martin, I'm writing the Irish from memory and don't know how to do a fada on this thing. Please correct whatever I've got wrong.)

Makes a great harp tune - I was just playing it today.

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:30 PM

"The Night before Larry was Stretched"

Regards

Subject: RE: songs with a slipjig beat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:30 PM

The Carthy tune for Byker Hill is played on The Iron Muse album under title The Drunken Collier. Not sure if its cadence has a particular name.

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