 sj |
||
|
||
Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals?
|
|
|
|||||||
|
Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? |
Share Thread
|
||||||
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: matt milton Date: 23 Mar 16 - 06:46 AM If you're uncomfortable with crowdfunding, are you equally uncomfortable with buying a ticket in advance for a concert, or paying an instrument-maker in advance for an instrument? It's the same thing. It's just paying in advance for a CD. No different to pre-ordering a book or CD on amazon (which I've done once or twice). I suspect the discomfort comes from the fact that it's often one's peers, fellow musicians on much the same amateur level as ourselves, who are the ones asking. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: if you don't think the person asking is any good, don't contribute. I have never contributed to a kickstarted, for the simple reason that nobody whose music I really like has ever asked me. And also, none of my actual friends have asked either. If any of my favourite musicians, who I genuinely would like to hear an album by, asked then I would gladly contribute. Ultimately whether you consider it justified or not is entirely down to the music. As far as entitlement goes, everyone is 'entitled' to put out a CD, for the simple fact that it's a financial transaction that you can either afford or not. It's not like we're talking door-to-door salesmen here, or annoying PPI spam phone calls! |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,Musket Date: 23 Mar 16 - 06:43 AM I'd stay confused Doug, it's easier for the rest of us that way. The OP spoke of artistes asking people to fund their work. When you buy an album, you are funding the work of the artiste anyway. I used Beatles, I could have used John and Esmae Hand, The Dead Kennedys or The Brighouse and Rastrick Brass Band. They all got record companies' shareholders to "crowdfund" if you think about it. It isn't difficult. Oh and yeah, I recently lent someone the cost of a day in the studio and 500 CDs to peddle whilst he gets gigs. I didn't see it as crowdfunding, I saw it as a loan of sorts. Crowdfunding and cadging money aren't mutually exclusive. |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: Will Fly Date: 23 Mar 16 - 04:31 AM I've made a number of CDs for sale and promotion over the years. All paid for meself. Never expected help from anyone, and CD production need not be a massive expense. - recorded the music on good quality micro equipment - burnt the master - created the sleeve and CD label design - got a firm to print the blank CDs with the label design and supply thin cases - got a local print shop in the village to print up the sleeves - duplicated the printed CDs on a 4x copier - folded the sleeves and inserted them and CDs into the cases All for about £2 each. Sold them as I saw fit, in person at gigs and online. I crowdfunded myself from a crowd of 1. |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,Anne Neilson Date: 23 Mar 16 - 04:18 AM A student I knew (from UK) was trying to fund himself for a jazz piano course in Berklee, US and came up with a grand list of 'rewards' for supporters including house concerts etc. I donated twice, for two new tunes, and had the loveliest afternoon discussing tune types, possible titles etc. before he went off to the States -- and the proviso was that said tunes would have a traditional feel, because that was our mutual background. Anyway, a year or so later I got the call and we met up again, at which point he handed over two framed manuscripts -- one of a jig and the other a slow air -- together with a home-made recording of same. What a joy and delight! Because I was so lucky with generous, non-financial support throughout my own introduction to traditional music, I'm happy to be 'paying it forward' for current youngsters when I can, but I'd probably be happier not funding CDs... |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: Mr Red Date: 23 Mar 16 - 04:17 AM A friend who is a real whizz with old media (think cylinders) even designing the gear to play them on. He has a website selling out-of-copyright music and speech http://poppyrecords.co.uk and is firmly of the opinion that CDs these days have a negative value. You have to pay to give them away. I make CDs and give them as a thankyou to contributors to http://stroudvoices.co.uk - an audio archive website. I even declined a fee for giving a talk and demonstrating what is my hobby. Such crowdfunding is no more insidious than sponsorship to run a marathon for charity. But it is irksome. Emotional blackmail would not be wide of the mark. |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: ChanteyLass Date: 22 Mar 16 - 07:21 PM Before the days of online crowd-funding, some local artists did this by email, and I was on their email lists. A donation of the price of their CDs would be rewarded with a copy of the CD when it was released. I did this for two performers because I especially liked their music, but not for others. As with modern funding, they had higher levels, like for a much larger donation they would do a house concert within a certain radius of their homes. I don't feel guilty about not donating, though, and am comfortable with saying something doesn't fit my budget right now but if I can afford it when the CD is available, I'll buy it then. Also, I tell people I never do anything with money online, so people were more likely to get my support when I could just snailmail a check. |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST Date: 22 Mar 16 - 06:04 PM I was uncomfortable with the crowdfunding thing for making CDs, but then I started thinking it through. I'm old enough to have experienced making records for actual record companies (not the big ones, but some of the bigger folkie record labels). The record label would pay all the recording costs, they would pay for a photo shoot (sometimes), they would pay for the design of the cover and the label, they would pay for mastering,they would pay for the manufacturing, then they would pay to send out a press release and send a bunch of records to record labels and magazines all over the place. Then they'd sell the records to the artist (for kind of a lot -- I think we had to pay $8 for a record that we could sell for $12) and we'd sell them at our gigs and that was the main way we made money on records. Now, for big-time artists on big-time labels, it would be different --- they would often end up in debt to the record label, but they still wouldn't have to put out any $$ out front in order to make the record. Sometimes the label would give a huge advance which would never get paid back. Sometimes they would have a hit and everyone would make a lot of money. For a while, it became cost effective to do-it-yourself and it didn't cost that much. But now, things have changed. Hourly studio cost has skyrocketed, and no, you can't make a really really good sounding recording using your computer and some cheap microphone. Mastering, which can make all the difference in how the final product sounds, costs more too, Manufacturing is cheaper than with phonograph records, but it costs something to pay a designer. But what's REALLY gotten expensive is promotion. I checked out several PR firms that other people I know are using or have used and it cost between $5,000 and $12,000 for a not very big "campaign". I've made whole albums that cost less than that and I bet you have too. Wonder how people get on Tiny Desk or All Songs Considered? A lot of times it's from having a high-priced PR firm in their corner. That's what makes the difference between a great artist who gets the exposure and an equally great one who does not. One band that I know raised a bunch of money to record their CD and then did a second kickstarter and raised $30,000 for marketing. Just for marketing. It's an excellent band but they are not yet a household name. For that I imagine you would need to spend more like $500,000. Just guessing there. Anyway this is a very longwinded way of saying that the game has changed. Also, not all the folks doing kick starters are amateurs or hobby musicians. Some have been in the folkie trenches for decades, earning a modest living with their music, but without making a lot above that. You could think of it as asking folks to pre-buy the CD, which is exactly what a lot of "supporters" do, albeit at a price higher than they would have to pay if they bought the CD at a show. |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,steve baughman Date: 22 Mar 16 - 05:01 PM Cool Beans. That's cool. Paying your own way. Self-reliance seems non-controversial, and unquestionably honorable. I agree with Joe Offer that there are legit crowd-funding stuff. Vietnamese orphanages and what not. And it CAN be done gracefully by musicians offering the donors something along the way. But I still feel a bit queasy about the whole "Please donate to help me make a CD of my really cool music" thing. It seems to me entitled. Again, I would like to not think this. (Joe, yes, that's me :-)
|
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: Cool Beans Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:25 PM I have made four CDs, all with my own money. I do it with five-dollar bills. Every time I get a fiver I put it in my sweater drawer. I also finance my trips to music camps this way, so nothing comes out of the family budget. I would never dream of asking my friends to chip in, but if they want to buy a CD I'm happy to sell them one. And I'm not above a little self-advertising, so if you're interested check out http://www.cdbaby.com/artist/martykohn |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: Doug Chadwick Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:21 PM Perhaps when you buy a Beatles album you are funding a desire to have your art financed by others? I don't understand, Musket. If I buy a Beatles album with my own money, how are other involved in financing the deal? DC |
|
Subject: RE: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:07 PM Hi, Steve (are you the Spring Sing Thing Steve?)- I get cranky about it, too - and sometimes people have jumped on me for being hard-hearted. Same goes for other kinds of crowd-funding, like using the Web to solicit funds for somebody who's had a tragedy. On the Internet, it's hard to tell what's authentic and what's not. Back in 2013, somebody started a thread here (click) at Mudcat, asking for funds to help Andy M. Stewart, who had medical problems that eventually led to his death. I questioned the authenticity of the appeal, and some people weren't very happy with me for a time. I was eventually convinced the appeal was authentic, but it's really hard to tell. There are some Mudcatters who have used crowd-funding to put together a CD, and most of them have done a very good job of it. Deb Cowan is one of those people who does everything right, anyhow; so I expected her to do a good job of crowdfunding a CD. She didn't disappoint me. She took supporters along with her on the journey, telling them of her experiences and she went along the process of producing the CD - and sending us MP3s along the way. I know you and I disagree about songbooks, but I've been a user of Rise Up Singing since it came out in 1988 - although I try to follow the editors' intentions and I use my songbook politely. Well, the editors, Peter Blood and Annie Patterson, did a couple of fundraising campaigns to get support for producing the Rise Again sequel one Sing Out! couldn't come through with a book. I contributed, and then joined their staff as a volunteer. It turned into a fulltime, unpaid job that lasted a year. I enjoyed it thoroughly, and I guess Peter and Annie liked my work because they named me Associate Editor. So, I guess I'd say I have mixed feelings about crowdfunding, but it does seem to have value. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:03 PM ...errrrmmm.. if anyone wants to paypal me a few quid to put back on the wife's credit card before she finds out.....???? Well.. it was the 3 P90 dogear pickups... and I've never had a Bigsby tremolo before... A proper rockabilly guitar it is.... 😜 10 generous donors could sort it before the end of the week.. Each will receive a signed photo of my hands holding the guitar in front of a mirror. [ might be a bit blurred as I'm shite at taking selfies...] |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,Musket Date: 22 Mar 16 - 03:27 PM Perhaps when you buy a Beatles album you are funding a desire to have your art financed by others? Just a thought. It's a matter of scale. |
|
Subject: Uncomfy with Kickstarter appeals? From: GUEST,steve baughman Date: 22 Mar 16 - 02:44 PM I don't like being cranky, but the flood of folks, including friends of mine, asking for my money for what are essentially their music hobby projects, is bothering me a bit. Can someone please help me not be cranky about this? After all, I imagine that the practice is here to stay so I probably need to make my peace with it. But I am old school. 1. If the world wants our music it will initiate the giving. 2. "It never hurts to ask" ain't always true. 3. We have developed a sense of entitlement to having a CD out. I understand the desire to have our music memorialized on CD. I just don't feel comfy with the view that it is OK to ask others to help finance it. Please help me be more compassionate and understanding about this. |
| Share Thread: |