No More Violence

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: gus C
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:09 AM

I am not at all behind operation -INFINITE JUSTICE. But, you are a moron. Do you really believe this thing ends without Bin Laden's Blood? Stop speaking for your pompous pious self and think about being in the current American administration- One of the gravest single day losses in any battle in the history of the world has happened to your people , without declaration of war, about 150 deaths can be attributed to military(pentagon) and terrorist personell ( a Whopping 24 Dead!!!!!). Nearly 6000 Deaths are CIVILIANS!!!Your economy has been TRASHED!!!! And your enemy has publicly stated "you are soft" ( Damn Christian values, we should all be violent islamic militants who have no clue what being Muslim means and SHAME their religion on an unspeakable level!!).CAN YOU AS AN AMERICAN OFFICIAL FAIL TO RESPOND AND DEFEND YOUR PEOPLE? You are not semi-retarded, you are COMPLETELY RETARDED.You are a simp.

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Peg
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:02 AM

Now lemme get this straight; we should kill bin Laden, regardless of whether he is guilty of this attack or not, because he is a SYMBOL of something?

Whaaat?

Killing bin Laden, bombing Afghanistan, burning the Persian Gulf...none of this will stop terrorism.

Not in the short term, certainly not in the long term.

The human race is sick and we can't just keep slapping bandaids on ourselves and swallowing painkillers. The ILLNESS goes way deeper than the SYMPTOMS. We have been given an opportunity to heal humankind from this malaise.

Will we do it?

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:46 PM

Tut Tut DJH, you are no longer supposed to refer to people as retarded, they are mentally challenged. Geez get with the age. 8 days after the attack, the American Government is referring to him as the Prime Suspect, but you think I am semi-retarded for using the same term. That's what I call pulling behind your president.

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: gus C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:42 PM

He is Guilty!Every Hijacker has been linked to him and even on the .00000000000000000000001 chance that he is innocent , he is the symbol of this act , and a guilty man as far as many other acts of terrorism are concerned . Sophocleese you are SEMI- RETARDED.

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Peg
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:41 PM

great poem. I have been writing quotations from various poets on the boards in my classrooms in response to this crisis, and have been leaing them on the boards when i leave the classrooms, and now I have this reputation as some rogue, phantom professor who is writing these things...I was going to go looking for something from W. H. Auden. This has some eminently quotable bits and is in its entirety quite chilling and moving at this time...

Thank you,

peg

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:38 PM

DJH only an idiot would consider praying for the death of a prime suspect in a case. Without more evidence before his death we would just create a lucrative niche market of conspiracy books. Or are you a publisher of "True Crime"?

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: gus C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:20 PM

If you want no more violence PRAY Bin Laden Dies Soon and , YES , I did say Pray. Only an idiot would think that any peaceful approach can even be considered while he is breathing.
But with him dead , with minimal blood spilt, the Nations of the world including those who support his kind have no choice but to Bring Terrorism to an end for 25 to 50 years.
Imagine a world where the USA suffered this extreme loss and only brings down a handful of guilty men, and then turns around and tells the UN- IT ENDS NOW! Here is the USA, Germany , England, russia,China..... and Damn near EVERYONES list of Known terrorists- IF THEY ARE ON YOUR SOIL, GET THEM,if needed ask for Help in getting them , or suffer the consequences.
Pray Bin Laden Dies soon.

naming the operation- Operation Infinite Justice isn't Helping!!!!! It only makes the entire Middle east fear WWIII. In which case they have to fight as a group, they do have children.

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: DougR
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 04:19 PM

Yep! I'll second Troll's message.

DougR

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Troll
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM

At least he has the courage to not post as a faceless GUEST. I disagree with Kevin a lot, but he mostly gets his facts right. His interpretation of them on the other hand...

troll

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: GUEST,no name
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 04:08 PM

If McGrath of Harlow was half as smart as he thinks he is, then the Government of Great Britain, or perhaps the United Nations, would have put him to use in solving all of the world's problems.

However, his greatness is unrecognized and it is only the denizens of the Mudcat Cafe who get to read his sanctimonious, self-righteous, and generally distorted, tracts.

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:55 PM

At my base the lines have been long at the legal office. Military members getting their wills in order. There is no euphoria here - a lot of fear of the unknown and a quiet resolve to do their job as they see it. At risk of sending this down the religious warpath, pardon my terminology Walking Eagle and Little Hawk, many are renewing their bonds with The Creator. I am opposed to war but will do my job to support the men and women who are tasked to go in our stead. It is the first time since the towers were hit that I am near tears - May each of us Pray for Peace - Steve

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:00 PM

I think I'll print that poem and tape it up near my workstation. Crazy days now, even crazier ones coming up. I know we as Americans feel great loss, but citizens from over 62 countries were in that terrible catastrophe. Anyone know where I can get a United NAtions Flag?

No More Violence!

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 01:37 PM

I tend to pass on things I agree with, unless I see them being attacked, or unless I feel I have something to add to them. I suspect there are a lot of people like that.

I think this week I've been closer to understanding what it was like to be around in August 1914 and September 1939 than I ever have before.

All around, alongside and underlying the shock and horror, there's a kind of euphoria which is very frightening, and yet you can understand the pull of it. Someone wrote a letter to the Guardian today saying sardonically "Of course it will all be over by Christmas."

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:10 PM

I think it has been noticed - but as CarolC says - we have had a lot this past week. And the poem stands on its own. Too bad we don't have counters to tell us how many folks have read a post without responding. Kind of an eBay forum? I know - highly impractical - Thanks again for all of you - Peace - Steve

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:44 AM

Wonderful poem........This whole week, too much...

Sorry this hasn't gotten more notice Soph.

Spaw

Subject: RE: No More Violence
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 07:52 PM

Bravo, Sophocleese.

As the poet said:

"We must love one another or die."

Moral death. Spiritual death. Physical death.

Only the last of those is unavoidable in this world.

- LH

Subject: No More Violence
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 02:21 PM

I think this link will lead people to a petition about a non-violent approach to last week's event.

Also, some American friend's of my mother, sent her this poem for last week. Its a good one.

"September 1, 1939"

W. H. Auden

I sit in one of the dives
On Fifty-Second Street
Uncertain and afraid
As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade:
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives;
The unmentionable odour of death
Offends the September night.

Accurate scholarship can
Unearth the whole offence
From Luther until now
That has driven a culture mad,
Find what occurred at Linz,
What huge image made
A psychopathic god:
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn.
Those to whom evil are done
Do evil in return.

Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming grief:
We must suffer them all again.

Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare.
Imperialism's face
And the international wrong.

Faces along the bar
Cling to their average day:
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play,
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.

The windiest militant trash
Important Persons shout
Is not so crude as our wish:
What mad Nijinsky wrote
About Diaghilev
Is true of the normal heart;
For the error bred in the bone
Of each woman and each man
Craves what it cannot have,
Not universal love
But to be loved alone.

From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
The dense commuters come,
Repeating their morning vow,
"I will be true to the wife,
I'll concentrate more on my work,"
And helpless governors wake
To resume their compulsory game:
Who can reach the deaf,
Who can speak for the dumb?

All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.

Defenceless under the night
Our world in stupor lies:
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.

September 1939