Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 01:33 PM

I'm from Hartlepool originally and it is true that it is a widely held belief. Whether it is actually true or not is a different matter. Seaports were (and are) very cosmopolitan places and I personally find it hard to believe that, as late as the Napoleonic Wars, even the folk in Hartlepool hadn't seen a monkey before - at a travelling fair, for instance.

As for the locals being proud of it...the football team may be nicknamed 'The Monkey Hangers' and the electorate may have elected a monkey as mayor BUT take my advice and don't go out on a Friday night down Church Street, asking 'Who hung the monkey?'. Hartlepool people can laugh at themselves but woe betide anyone else who does!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 01:31 PM

Allan, to quote from the page IanC linked to:

Some people increasingly believe that this unfortunately is not true. There are many theories why but the main one is this: Hartlepool has always been a seafaring town with inhabitants since the 9th Century; it gained its' Royal Charter in 1201. Sailors have been synonymous with simians ever since they started trading, so for the people of an important sea trading town never to have saw a one before 1805 is a ridiculous notion.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: nutty
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 01:29 PM

The people of Hartlepool were possibly wiser than most people think.

As I understand it, if the wreck was abandoned it became the property of the crown.

If it still had crew on board, the people of Hartlepool could claim salvage. It would be worth getting laughed at just for that.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 01:20 PM

IanC - point taken.

Big Pink - I'm thinking more of "village" life. Of course, by the time of the Napoleonic wars, the Poms had even re-discovered Australia!

Allan

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:52 PM

GUEST - alinact said: I know the English led a very insular existence back then, in that they didn't stray far from home,

I think you'll find the English were in the throws of building the biggest empire the world has ever known (if you don't count Macdonalds). Nothing insular about them, then or since.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:40 PM

Hartlepool is roughly on the "French" side of England, bu rather nearer 300 miles from France.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:38 PM

Actually, Petr, "hanged" means executed by breaking the neck using a rope. If done correctly, part of one of the neck vertebrae goes though the spine causing instant death. People are therefore executed by being hanged.

However, if the death is to be prolonged then the person is hung like any other animal. Hence, you are "Hung, drawn and quartered".

;-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:36 PM

Thanks, fellas. I'm surprised I hadn't heard of this, especially with Vin Garbitt singing a song about it.

Now, as to whether I believe it or not!?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hartlepool on the north-east coast of England, i.e. on the French side, and only, what, 20 or 30 miles away? I know the English led a very insular existence back then, in that they didn't stray far from home, but surely there must have been some interaction between them and the French?

Also, all the songs seem to be modern. If the story was "leaked" at around the time it happened, I'm surprised there isn't a more contemporary song.

Anyway, who cares - it's a great story and I'm glad I found out about it.

Allan

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true? - Hartlepool Monkey
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:35 PM

to be pedantic, the only time that 'hanged' is used is when it is a
person, otherwise 'hung' is correct, I remember this point from my
grade 8 English teacher. Since a monkey doesnt qualify as a human
then 'hung' would be the correct term.

any comments?
petr

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:12 PM

Does truth really matter in a good song?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:58 AM

It is true... if you want it to be.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:39 AM

The story has been discussed at some length here a number of times, and I think at least two songs on the subject posted. The search engine will give you details if you ask it to. Just type in hartlepool.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:11 AM

It is true and happened in Hartlepool. The residents of Hartlepool are to this day proud of their achievment. Lets face it, it is an easy mistake to make. The local football team are called the Monkey Hangers and their mascot is a monkey called Hangus!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:03 AM

It's well verified as true ... reported in local papers at the time, I think.

Here's a site (there are many with) The Hartlepool Monkey legend.

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: okthen
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:03 AM

It was Hartlepool, (they elected a monkey as Mayor this year) but true, the original monkey was the pet of a French ships captain, shipwrecked during the Napoleonic wars and washed ashore. The monkey was dressed in a sailors costume and as it didn't speak English (and there were no French sailors left alive) the good residents of Hartlepool tried the monkey as a spy, found it guilty and hanged it.
I think there are some web sites about the story.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 09:54 AM

have heard arguments one way or the other.

Subject: Folklore: Is this story true?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 09:47 AM

I posted this in John from Hull's Monkeys thread:

"Heard a story at the pub the other night that the people swear is true - or they were just trying to take the mickey out of a visiting Aussie.

Anyway, the story goes that during the Napoleonic wars, a monkey was washed up on a beach up Newcastle way (presumably a pet of some matelot who was shipwrecked) and when the locals, who obviously lived very sheltered lives back then, found it they thought it was a Frenchman, so they hung (hanged?)it.

I'm not saying whether I believe it or not but has anybody ever heard of this? and, if it is true, surely there has to have been a song created about it?"

but got no response, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Any ideas, anyone?

Allan