Bodhran history???

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 05:24 PM

It comes from bodice- When the instrument is heard, the Irish are driven to ripping the bodices......!

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: GUEST,Once Beaten
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 03:49 PM

Do you think the name might be derived from tamBOURine rather than from Bodhar?

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 03:45 PM

"Does it really matter where it came from or how it developed?"

Well, not really I guess... but I am curious none the less...

I'm also a bit of a stickler from time to time for accuracy... Most of the stuff that I'd read about the hran said that it's recent... and when I hear people say that it's centuries old.. well, I'm forced to chime in...

Kinda like when some dullards say that druids build Stonehenge... They're just pure D wrong...

Looks like the short answer to the bodhran history question is, "We don't know..."

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 12:46 PM

The second link in Spaw's posting contains a sidebar quote from Eamon de Buitléar which I can confirm, having been around at the time.

The featuring of the bodhrán in "Sive" aroused considerable comment in Dublin at the time, as it had probably hardly ever been heard outside Kerry. My Irish teacher (who retired in 1965 and was therefore presumably born in 1900) was a Kerryman who explained to my class that the bodhrán was used by the wren boys, who go from farm to farm on St Stephen's day dressed up and playing music in exchange for drinks. It was not commonly used in traditional music at the time outside this context, notwithstanding occasional appearances in recordings as identified in the link referred to.

It was in fact de Buitléar himself who, by his playing of the bodhrán in Ceoltóirí Cualann, the embryonic Chieftains, did more than anyone else to popularise the bodhrán.

It's an instrument that gets a hard time, as we all know, but the very fact that it has been able to establish itself is to me proof that the tradition is alive and well, not stuck in a jar of academic or nationalist formaldehyde. The same is true of the bouzouki, introduced in the late sixties by Johnny Moynihan and/or Andy Irvine and/or Donal Lunny and/or Mick Moloney (delete as appropriate).

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 04:26 AM

As old as the Titanic---I saw it being played on yon film just before the ship went down----- Does it really matter where it came from or how it developed? A well-made bodhran played well when it SHOULD be played--and left mute when it shouldn't--can be an asset to any band, and not only celtic on occasion.

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 03:32 AM

the stick you play it with is also called a beater or a tripper....the skin is usuallymade of goat hide, but if it made from dog skin it is called a bow wow ron..

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Hrothgar
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 02:44 AM

The Irish don't just march to war with it - they use it as an offensive weapon.

It does tend to be more offensive than weapon.......

:-)

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:56 PM

Exactly when the Irish stole the instrument from the Inuit (Eskimo) must have been at the time of Brendan's voyage to the New World.
Seriously, this type of percussion drum is widespread and it has a long history. How long have the Irish have had it ? No old data, a tall, a tall. It is related to the tambours of Africa and Asia, brought across the Behring Strait to the New World by the Inuit, but that doesn't answer the "Irish Question."
The suppositions by Malcolm Douglas are as good as any. The development from an instrument to separate grain from chaff is possible, and may explain the tambours, but the development from the minstrel show's tambourine seems more logical for the Irish version.

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:20 PM

"Rude Tambourine"...........Now ya' gotta' love that one!!!

I particularly enjoyed the thoughts on the third site I linked above. Considering how much music of the southern mountains is of Irish origin, it had never occurred to me before that the bodhran is missing, completely unknown as it were in the music. Only makes sense though doesn't it?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 08:57 PM

There seems to be little evidence that the bodhran is of any great age, except as an agricultural implement, occasionally pressed into service as a noise-maker by Wren Boys and the like. During the 19th and early 20th centuries, the tambourine was very popular in both Ireland and England, and was played in both countries much as the bodhran is now; with a double-headed stick, or with the knuckles. In both countries, that popularity was probably mainly due to the "Ethiopian" minstrel shows that came over from America. Prior to the tambourine, the tabor was the drum of choice, in England at any rate. The Lambeg, like the tabor, is a double-headed drum, probably unrelated to either tambourine or bodhran.

That isn't going to stop the "new age Celts" fantasising about marching to war with their bodhrans and uilleann pipes (and probably didgeridoos), covered in woad and "tribal" tatoos and wearing nice colourful tartans, of course.

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:00 PM

For what it's worth, P W Joyce's 1910 book English as we speak it in Ireland gives the word, with the agricultural use first and says sometimes used as a rude tambourine

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:52 PM

resembles the Bendir (Morocco). also similar drums in Eastern Europe - one i heard referred to as a tambour (bigger than tambourine and no bells).
another history article is at http://www.scottish-irish.com/html/bodhran.html

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: PeteBoom
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 04:04 PM

The tambour, tambourin (no e) and bodhran are frame drums comporable to frame drums from around the world. The jingles on the tambourine (with an e) are a *relatively* recent addition in a structured music sense. (Used to play percussion in a symphony when in college/university... actually took lessons on playing the tambourine...)

The age and lineage of the bodhran is, frankly, indefinite. I've seen scholarly studies going both ways about "it is centuries old" and "it is recent". What is certain is that it was revived, knowingly, in the '50's. I know SOME hard-core traditionalists who swear that the bodhran has no place in true tradtional Irish music, and none at all in Scottish music. Of course, they also despise other recent innovations - the guitar, piano and button accordions and keyed flutes.

I suspect it is because most of them are academic types who dislike the rural associations with the drum - e.g., wren boys.

Ah well - I used to be an academic type, too, then quit working for universities after 6 years and went back to the real world.

Ah well -

Pete

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 03:25 PM

You call it a "tipper" and that one is loaded with possibilities, most of which I've used around here at one point or another.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:50 PM

DAMN I missread the thread name, I thought it was "Bodhran IS history", which would be joyous news all-around

P.S. Lynn: I'm only joking! Please don't kill me with a Bodhran whacker.

P.P.S. Exactly what to you call that thing you beat a bodhran with?

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:44 PM

What about Tambours? As in Tambourine.
I don't know how they played them but from france through Spain to Morroco & Algieria such single skin, short barrel drums are common. With or without cymbals.

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:36 PM

Try This

or

This one

or perhaps

This which is kinda' funny....and a Good Point!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Bodhran history???
From: Les Jones
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:23 PM

I am fascinated to know.

In the meantime I offer this:

Cider was first invented as paint stripper but as nobody had invented paint people decided to drink it instead.

Surely this must be true?

Subject: Bodhran history???
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:01 PM

Some folks claim it's hundreds of years old and was played in war settings... some claim it's a relatively recent adjustment to a tool once used to separate wheat from chaff...

Any good scholarly opinions out there, with credible sources?