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In the UK......? (thread title change complaint)
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:26 PM Do you *READ* what you cut and paste or just choose them at random? the latter seems more likely. Where and when did joe post that comment. Without know the context in which he made it I cannot respond to it directly You certainly feel that the editing change made to your thread title was "objectionable" - so why wouldn't the request to take it off forum apply? And why object to the suggestion you follow the procedure now - since it has been made repeatedly - and you will note - by more then just I. In fact, had you followed procedure in the first place you might well have had the editing decision reversed. Though why you would WANT it reversed when readers have indicated it did indeed clarify the title despite your opinon on the matter. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:24 PM Shambles is doubting the existence of Max, I thik. He is an unbeliever, and a fatwa should be issued against him (or is it a Fatima? you know what I mean). |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:12 PM gee- these are the rules Max made, the clones adhere to them and if you don't like it you need to do as Max has asked and communicate with him off forum isn't a definative enough answer for you? MMario - because you may wish or believe that Max has made such a request - does not mean that he has - (nor does it mean that I have not contacted him privately). I asked you to provide the evidence of your earlier statement that but also contrary to Max's requests that complaints of this nature be taken off forum. You have failed to produce this evidence but still repeat the claim. Joe Offer says here - inserted to a post as an editing comment - and so presumably not as a fellow poster. Joe Offer has frequently requested that complaints about objectionable posts or threads be conveyed to Joe, Max, or Pene Azul by personal message or e-mail. This instruction is also stated in the FAQ, written by Joe and reviewed by Pene Azul and Max. Such complaints should NOT be posted in the regular forum or in the help forum because they only serve to give troblemakers the very attention that they crave. I have to say I'm not sure WHICH "complaints of this nature" are being referred to in this thead, so I don't know if the instructions apply here. -Joe Offer- As stated above - I remember well when Joe Offer - as a fellow poster and as an aid to fellow posters (not to enslave them) - largely wrote the FAQ. As Joe Offer states here - Max may well have 'reviewed' all of this considerable document but I have yet to see the evidence I requested of Max making such public statement or request that you claim he has. |
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Subject: (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:11 PM Shambles posted the text qouted below: "Now that we have anonymous volunteer fellow posters who can impose any change to a selected orignator's thread title as and when they want to - would it be possible and would it be a good idea for clarification purposes - to always indicate to our forum - where and when such an imposition has taken place and who was responsible? This would avoid the current situation where there is a current thread title that has had a change imposed upon it by an anonymous volunteer fellow poster but which is now less clear and more incorrect as a result of this imposition - but where the title is still credited to its originator? Perhaps as such imposition looks now to be a fact - such action should be seen to be more accountable? " Which to be more accurate shouuld be annotated to read thusly: Now that we have and have had for years anonymous moderators appointed by the site owner who can impose any change to a selected orignator's thread title as and when they want to following the guidelines given to them by the site owner and subject to review by the site owner- would it be possible and would it be a good idea for clarification purposes - to always (editorial comment - Always? there are "always" exceptions to rules - you should know that!) indicate to our forum - where and when such an imposition has taken place and who was responsible? This would avoid the current situation where there is a current thread title that has had a change imposed upon it by an anonymous moderator but which is now less clear and more incorrect as a result of this imposition in the opinon of the originator but not in the opinion of many who have read the thread; and which factually as read is neither incorrect nor unclear- but where the title is still credited to its originator? Perhaps as such imposition looks now to be a fact (editorial comment - it occurred, yes, that is a fact)- such action should be seen to be more accountable?" (editorial comment: not according to Max - whose site it is) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Wesley S Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:07 PM Shambles - That is at least the third time that you've quoted me and edited and altered my post without asking my permission or sending me a PM. If you are going to quote me I'm going to have to ask you to use the entire quote. PLEASE DO NOT EDIT MY POSTS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. Granted - this is what you are asking of others - Joe and the clones - so I don't think it's too much to ask in return is it ? Why would you want to change my posts without asking my permission ahead of time ? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:54 PM Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others -Wesley S Joe Offer said - in a conventional post as a fellow poster. Learn to live with it. We change thread titles because we want to change thread titles, and because most people seem to appreciate it. You say changing thread titles is offensive to the creator of a thread - but this is so only because you assert it to be so. Changing a thread title is not a power thing or suppression or censorship or anything like that. It's just indexing threads so people can find information in them. We're not intentionally offending anyone - we're just doing something you don't want us to do. You are offended because you have chosen to be offended. That's all. Get over it. Let us leave our forum to judge things like how much notice to take of whether most people appreciate imposition being undertaken upon others. However, the issue is not one of a change to a thread title but one of risking offence by the routine practice of anonymous volunteer fellow posters automatically imposing this change upon their fellow posters without their knowledge or permission. Now that we have anonymous volunteer fellow posters who can impose any change to a selected orignator's thread title as and when they want to - would it be possible and would it be a good idea for clarification purposes - to always indicate to our forum - where and when such an imposition has taken place and who was responsible? This would avoid the current situation where there is a current thread title that has had a change imposed upon it by an anonymous volunteer fellow poster but which is now less clear and more incorrect as a result of this imposition - but where the title is still credited to its originator? Perhaps as such imposition looks now to be a fact - such action should be seen to be more accountable? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:44 PM It's OK, Roger. You don't have to change your mind. You can go on feeling insulted that those thread titles were changed. It's just that the rest of us are bored silly by your constant repetition. We KNOW what you want. We simply chose to do something else. And if you don't get what you want, and repond by endlessly insisting on having what you want, that's a tantrum. And when that tantrum goes on for four years, the tantrum-thrower tends to lose credibility. Normal people don't do that, Roger. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:42 PM "I am still waiting for some opinion or evidence that will change my mind" gee- these are the rules Max made, the clones adhere to them and if you don't like it you need to do as Max has asked and communicate with him off forum isn't a definative enough answer for you? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Wesley S Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM "I am still waiting for some opinion or evidence that will change my mind" If that's the case I'm claiming post 1000 !! |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:15 PM you are not a customer. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:13 PM But the customer is always right. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:12 PM I started a thread. And although an imposed change was made by Joe Offer to its title - this is still that thread. If you don't like the thread subject - you do not have to open it (if you could only resist from just having a peek at the latest posts) and you don't have to post to it (again if only you could resist the temptation). Such is life. I will leave our forum to judge who is having tantrums (and why) and who is still trying to hold a discussion on the part of Max's website set aside for that very purpose. I am still waiting for some opinion or evidence that will change my mind. I live in hope and as has been stated - there is no right or wrong.... |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Wesley S Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:09 PM Joe - My sympathies to you. Is there ANYTHING that can be said that hasn't already been discussed at least a dozen times before ? THERE IS NOTHING NEW TO SAY ON THIS SUBJECT. Let's let the issue die. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 05 - 11:53 AM Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! etc. You haven't said anything new, Roger. Basically, it's still the same: you want it your way, and your way wasn't chosen. Your way isn't wrong - it's just that other people chose something else. Such is life, except that most people don't have a four-year tantrum about it. Learn to live with it. We change thread titles because we want to change thread titles, and because most people seem to appreciate it. You say changing thread titles is offensive to the creator of a thread - but this is so only because you assert it to be so. Changing a thread title is not a power thing or suppression or censorship or anything like that. It's just indexing threads so people can find information in them. We're not intentionally offending anyone - we're just doing something you don't want us to do. You are offended because you have chosen to be offended, because you have chosen to make an issue out of thread indexing. That's all. it's not a big deal, Roger. Get over it. And stop having tantrums. It's so immature. -Joe Offer- (and what I say is what I say, as an integrated person - whether it's in brown or not - I AM Joe Offer) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: katlaughing Date: 26 Aug 05 - 11:18 AM So...all of those threads started with generic "Need lyrics, don't know the title, etc." titles should remain forever generic, no reading the first post and trying to pull a couple of clues from them to ADD to the title in order to catch peoples'eye? Mudcat has ALWAYS asked posters to be AS SPECIFIC AS POSSIBLE when naming threads. This has become increasinly so as more and more members joined from countries other than the United States. It has been noted, time and again, that this is esp. true between the UK, or any part of it, and the US, as we supposedly share a common language. So often, music threads are started by newbie GUESTS who just happened to have wandered in looking for chords, lyrics, etc. Are we supposed to try to track down everyone of them in order to clarify their thread title so they have a chance in hell of getting the info they seek? This whole thing is so gawddam ridiculous! kat |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jacqui.c Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:56 AM Roger made a request. It was turned down. The majority of posters to this thread agreed with that decision. That should be the end of the matter, or does Roger feel that his wishes should be tantamount on this forum? By the way Roger, you seem to do so much cutting and pasting - do you work as a decorator? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:49 AM Joe Offer says – in a conventional post – presumably his own personal view as a fellow poster. Shambles: No, volunteers may not change thread titles without permission. The thread title is the creative effort of the thread originator, and must not be changed without prior permission from the thread originator. No – this words are yours Joe - not mine and in this form it is a demand – the original request was as follows and is not one that is without support from other posters - including a fellow volunteer. It is interesting when terms like 'must not' are used by Joe Offer. Are the use of or even the perception of such terms really proportionate on a public discussion forum like this? Subject: In the UK..............? From: GUEST,The Shambles - PM Date: 21 Jul 05 - 07:24 AM Perhaps whether the words 'UK' appear in a thread title or not can be left to the thread's originator - rather than be imposed by some anonymous volunteer - with time on their hands and nothing better to do? Or is it now done automatically? I was amazed to see 'UK' added to a recent thread - a matter of minutes after the thread's creation and before anyone had a chance to respond. Can the wishes of the origination be respected and any change to a thread's title only be undertaken with their knowledge and permission? Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: RE: In the UK..............? From: folkman - PM Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:39 PM I agree with you Mr Shambles. Subject: RE: In the UK..............? From: Bert - PM Date: 21 Jul 05 - 09:11 PM Well said Shambles. The thread title should NEVER be changed without the consent of the originator. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: In the UK..............? From: GUEST,khandu - PM Date: 24 Jul 05 - 10:39 AM I am with The Shambles on this one. A couple of years back, I created a thread regarding a certain troll. Within moments, Pene Azul pmed me and explained that he believed this thread would probably do far more harm than good and requested permission to delete it. Certainly, he could have deleted it without bothering to ask. But Jeff showed more class than that. The simple act of contacting me beforehand made all the difference in the world. I told him to delete it and I felt rather good about it all. Had he or anyone else deleted it without contact, I would have been pissed and would have posted a grumbling thread about it. Simple decency goes a long way. Change my thread titles? Sure, if you believe there is a good reason. But show some civility and respect to the creator of the thread by sending a simple PM. khandu |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Big Mick Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:08 AM Nope, he wouldn't. Then he couldn't be a manipulative schmoe... Mick |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Aug 05 - 09:07 PM Shambles: No, volunteers may not change thread titles without permission. The thread title is the creative effort of the thread originator, and must not be changed without prior permission from the thread originator. Joe Offer: Yes, volunteers may change thread titles (sparingly, and according to consistent practices) when changes are needed for clarification and other worthwhile purposes. While your view is valid, the thread can just as easily be viewed as the creative work of the entire community, which would imply that the thread title is meant to serve the entire community and can be changed so that it best serves the community's need to have a thread title that identifies the contents of a thread and distinguishes it from other threads. This is a matter of choice, not absolute truth. In this case, the decision was made to choose a policy which does not meet your specifications. Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! Shambles: No! Joe Offer: Yes! etc. Whatever the case, it’s a circular argument. It’s a matter of an arbitrary choice, not a choice between right and wrong. It's a choice in which Shambles did not get his way, so he's not satisfied - and never will be. I suppose the only way to end it is to crown Shambles king. But would he be happy as king???? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:11 PM That qoute - as one can see from the thread titles - was a specific response to someone asking about the "rules" for the BS section of the forum. Out of context in relation to this discussion - it was a specific response to a specific question. and as such has been superceded by Max's guidelines for the clones - whose actions, as mentioned previously, are all subject to review and reversal should Max find it necessary. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:09 PM but also contrary to Max's requests that complaints of this nature be taken off forum. MMario - I have often seen Joe Offer's contention that it is his wish that this is the case - perhaps you can show our forum where Max's wish for this is so worded?
I have to say I'm not sure WHICH "complaints of this nature" are being referred to in this thead, so I don't know if the instructions apply here. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:05 PM Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules From: Max - PM Date: 26 Oct 99 - 12:40 AM Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Aug 05 - 11:55 AM Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests? From: The Shambles - PM Date: 23 Aug 05 - 02:08 PM ... ... I for one have no wish to have a say in how Max's site is run. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 25 Aug 05 - 11:54 AM It doesn't matter what you or I think! Max will rein in Joe if he thinks he has overstepped. Not you, Not I. Mick's calling you a manipulative schmoe is an apt description of the behavior you have exhibited. Likewise the qoute from Joe to the anonymous person who had been distrupting the forum for quite some time was, while perhaps not the best phrased warning in the world was well deserved. Both are logical outcomes of progressions visible in previous posts. Your demands are not only unreasonable - and indicitve that you indeed DO wish to have a say in how Max runs his site - but also contrary to Max's requests that complaints of this nature be taken off forum. And your "polite requests" have indeed become demands due to the way you have insisted on presenting them. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 11:44 AM MMario - What part of nastiness and keeping it down - do you read as appointed to post nastiness it and encouraging others to post nastiness. If Mick mounts an abusive personal attack on me or any other poster and calls me a manipulative schmoe or Joe Offer issues the following type of threats - Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted. Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass. -Joe Offer- -do you wish our forum to think that Max is always in total agreement and that these words are also Max's?
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 25 Aug 05 - 11:31 AM Of course Shambles continues to ignore this part: So, Max appointed some of us to try to keep down the worst of the nastiness. what part of "Max appointed" don't you understand? Though the "volunteers" are volunteers in that there is no compensation monatarily - MAX chose each one of them. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 11:28 AM This was the post in full. Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests? From: The Shambles - PM Date: 23 Aug 05 - 02:08 PM Shambles, what part of what MMario said do you not understand? It is quite clear to most of us that this site belongs to Max. We have NO say in how it is run. Kendall - It is indeed long been clear that this site belongs to Max and I for one have no wish to have a say in how Max's site is run. However this is a part of Max's website that he has very generously set aside for invited contributions from the public and called the Mudcat Discussion Forum. I have some agreement - for my reference to this part of Max's site - as our forum. It is from a very unlikely source - and perhaps you would agree with the both of us? [PM] Joe Offer BS: Censorship on Mudcat (1009* d) RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat 31 Mar 05 Well, I have to agree with Shambles that Max seems to convey the idea that this is "our" forum. However, it also seems quite clear that very few of us want "our" forum to be taken over by those who would wish to make it a place of combat and chaos. So, Max appointed some of us to try to keep down the worst of the nastiness. We don't do enough to satisfy some people (Clinton Hammond, for example), and we do too much to satisfy Shambles. So, we continue to stumble along what we see as the middle path, knowing that we will never satisfy everybody. Such is life. -Joe Offer- Our forum is certainly not Joe Offer's and it does not say that it is in the FAQ - yet. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Aug 05 - 09:19 AM Subject: RE: HI Max: What about Shambles requests? From: The Shambles - PM Date: 23 Aug 05 - 02:08 PM ... ... I for one have no wish to have a say in how Max's site is run. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: John MacKenzie Date: 25 Aug 05 - 08:54 AM August in the news gathering industry is known as "The Silly Season" obviously applies on Mudcat too *BG* Giok |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:47 AM "Please can there be no more excuses and weak attempts at justification?"NO PROBLEM!!!And now since we have hit upon the one salient point that keeps this thread going AND we all agree NOT to provide any excuses of any kind, I'd say it's time to close this sucker. Since there is yet another thread devoted to this subject also running, further conversations can be had there! |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:21 AM Another example and more evidence of the current 'combat and chaos' that our anonymous volunteer fellow posters create on our forum by their current assumptions and lack of any consistent policy and means of communication between them. BS The piano man The above thread was (mistakenly) given a BS or non-music prefix by the originator. Despite or possibly because there were later requests from the originator for the thread to be moved up to the music related section – this imposed judgement by our volunteer fellow posters - means that this thread stubbornly if illogically still remains in the non music section. We now have another thread on the some subject that was started in the music-related section – and remains there. Piano man This was the reasoning – or lack of – that was given at the time - as to why this music related thread had to stay with the BS. Subject: RE: BS: The piano man. From: GUEST,thread starter - PM Date: 17 May 05 - 04:57 AM I wasn't too sure where to put this request, and did feel bad about the BS tag, with hindsight I wish I had put it above the line. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: BS: The piano man. From: GUEST Date: 25 May 05 - 03:02 AM Is it not possible for someone to move this thread up to the music-related section? Normal procedure if the originator of a thread has designated it as BS is to allow it to remain as BS – joeclone ------------------------------------------------ Subject: RE: BS: The piano man. From: The Shambles - PM Date: 25 May 05 - 07:58 PM Normal procedure if the originator of a thread has designated it as BS is to allow it to remain as BS – joeclone If only other things were allowed to remain as the originator wished. This is simply making our forum look even more stupid. This thread is clearly in the wrong place and the originator has accepted that choosing the B/S prefix was a mistake. Many people who would be interested in this subject and may be able to help - will not even see this thread as many do not venture 'below the line'. Can a more sensible approach be taken please? One which respects the originators wishes and follows common sense? Sorry, but this thread doesn't have enough music information in it to warrant moving it. -Joe Offer- ------------------------------------------------------------ The original anonymous volunteer fellow poster – was under the impression that Mudcat policy meant that if an originator placed a BS prefix – the thread had to remain there. This presumably honouring the originator's wishes (which is good) – even when the originator later requested that it be moved (which is not so good). But the only consideration that now seems to count over and above all this – is the personal judgement of our fellow poster - Joe Offer. As the new thread contains about the same amount of music information as the original thread – will we see this thread too relegated to the BS? Perhaps it is better for our volunteer fellow posters to be guided by the wishes of the contributors -–rather than ignoring this and always rushing to impose their own flawed personal judgement? Please can there be no more excuses and weak attepts at justification? This plain silliness is just more evidence of the current chaos engendered by all this imposition by fellow posters. Can it just be accepted as the 'cock-up' that it is - pride swallowed and steps taken to ensure that such things are not repeated? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 25 Aug 05 - 05:05 AM I certainly do not consider that I, or any other user of this site can be called a customer - that suggests that I have given some sort of consideration for the priviledge of using the site, which is not the case. Therefore I have no right to dictate the way in which the site owner chooses to allow the site to be run by his appointees. I doubt that Max would be silly enough to allow our anonymous volunteer fellow posters to run his entire site for him. But the word 'customer' still seems about right for our forum - judging from Max's words on how he sees our forum. For unlike some of our volunteer fellow posters - even customers will accept they have certain responsibilities to go with their right to see their words remain as posted on our forum. However, I can see why certain of our volunteer fellow posters would not like the idea of their role only to be seen to be serving the needs of their fellow posters - but seem to see it now as judging and dictating what they will 'allow' these fellow posters to have on the part of Max's site that he has generously set aside for contributions from the public. Perhaps an analogy with a hospital where the patients now feel them selves perfectly qualified to impose major surgury upon their fellow patients as and when it suits them - would better describe our present situation? It would result in a similar amount of needless bleeding......and possibly eventual death from this blood loss? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: JennyO Date: 24 Aug 05 - 12:27 PM Yep, turkey turd beers are on the house... (_) (_) (_) (_) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Aug 05 - 12:19 PM I don't think Roger can get his cock up. But over on the other thread we're talking turds, so why not drop this turkey and join us? We can leave Roger and his limp weenie on this one! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 24 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM He is real. Real stoopid. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jacqui.c Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:38 AM And your assuming that you are totally in the right and can speak for all Mudcatters here is definitely a major cock-up. Get real, why don't you. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:23 AM Assumption - I was always told - was the mother of all cock-ups. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jacqui.c Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:13 AM If Max disagrees with the way that any clone is doing the job he can withdraw their ability to do it. Since that does not seem to be the case I would assume that Max is happy with the way these unpaid helpers are doing the job. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:09 AM The issue of volunteer fellow posters wishing to remain anonymous rather crucial. My rather simple request - is that any proposed change to a poster's words - be first made in request to the thread's originator. There is no way that an anonymous fellow volunteer could send a PM to a poster (who did use their name) with such a request - and still remain anonymous. Is the protection of this annonimity (seemingly at all costs) the reason why simple request is now rejected - out of hand - by my volunteer fellow poster? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jacqui.c Date: 23 Aug 05 - 10:44 PM Of course he hasn't. He isn't a dissenter, he's just a complainer who kicks and screams when he can't get his own way. My five year old grandson behaves in a more civilised fashion. I certainly do not consider that I, or any other user of this site can be called a customer - that suggests that I have given some sort of consideration for the priviledge of using the site, which is not the case. Therefore I have no right to dictate the way in which the site owner chooses to allow the site to be run by his appointees. Max appointed the clones. To my knowledge they did not ask for the job but were chosen by Max to uphold his own standards. The work is voluntary but they were not, in the true sense of the word, volunteers. (Maybe Roger is upset that he hasn't been asked to be a volunteer). If Max disagrees with the way that any clone is doing the job he can withdraw their ability to do it. Since that does not seem to be the case I would assume that Max is happy with the way these unpaid helpers are doing the job. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Aug 05 - 10:13 PM Face it, Roger - If you want to use a library analogy, the "book" that you write could just as well be the individual message in a thread - and in your case, it often IS book-length. You do control your message and its title, but the thread is the work of all who participate in it. I suppose we could make a rule and say that the thread and its title are under the control of the thread originator, but there is no such rule here. In fact, when we did not have the ability to fix thread titles, we constantly had people lecturing other people on the proper method to title a thread, and it really got old. It certainly is valid for you to think that a thread title should be controlled by the originator, but that is your minority opinion, a personal opinion that you have expressed over and over again until you have bored us all silly. There are valid reasons both for and against thread title changes, but mostly it's an arbitrary thing, a question of "yes" or "no" - and you have been overruled. You are amidst intelligent people, Roger, and you cannot change their minds by simply indundating them with the same words spoken over and over again. A decision has been made, and the only person who can overrule that decision is Max; so you really need to speak to him directly about it if you wish the decision to be changed. And so, I ask once again: Have You Done That, Roger? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Ebbie Date: 23 Aug 05 - 09:15 PM Love your story, Joe. It explains so much. :) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 05 - 05:53 PM Cross-indexing does NOT equal title change. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jeffp Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:43 PM Mudcat is not a library, it is a database. Joe and the Clones are not librarians, they are database administrators. Posts to the Mudcat are not books, they are entries in a database. Sometimes massaging is necessary to ensure efficient retrieval. This is entrusted to database administrators who are appointed by the database owner to do their jobs as they see fit. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:25 PM Libraries cross-index books all the time without getting authors permissions. MMario - are you seriously claiming to our forum that these librarires allow their staff to re-title books as they wish? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:22 PM and how does *that* little parable even remotely relate to adding three words to a thread title? Libraries cross-index books all the time without getting authors permissions. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:12 PM The moral is - If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen. Time to dig this one up. Dear Professor Hawking Or may I call you Stephen? I understand from your publisher's lawyers that you are unhappy with a recent action taken by this library? I refer to the combination of your book - A Brief History Of Time -with Professor Einstein's Theory of Relativity and Dr Wolfgang von Pedant's two definitive works on the Aardvark - Digging The Dirt and The Truth About Termite Mounds. I think that I know our readers needs better than you and I think that this combination of the three volumes into one it makes sense and will enable our readers to find what they are looking for much more easily. This is my only motive in this as I have decided that the library's priority consideration must be to its indexing. I am sorry that you may not be in agreement - but "learn to live with it". The choice of title for this combined work was one suggested by one of the library's best behaved readers. *"QUIT FUCKING WITH THE AARDVARK' is a title which I think will best enable our readers to find the information they require. Yours truly The Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. * I cannot claim credit for this title - see if you can guess which poster came up with this gem. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:09 PM But some fell upons stony ground, where Onan blessed them. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: curmudgeon Date: 23 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM A masterful tale, Joe. Parables are often the best way of teaching, but sadly, they only work for those who are open to learning - Tom |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Janie Date: 23 Aug 05 - 03:18 PM *BG* Joe. J. |
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