Where is the modern folk scene?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 May 09 - 09:10 AM

You didn't start any hostilities, redx17, we throw a little bit in to every discussion, as a sort of lagniappe--

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,redxl7
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:23 PM

Wow there was some good advice in there, thanks for the responses...I didn't mean to open the floodgates to all this hostility between the Americans and British though...

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,Patrick Duffy
Date: 27 May 09 - 01:18 AM

Hey, the folk scene is hard to find but its there and even in places like NYC you'll find it. Check out our group for some traditional roots music, folk, bluegrass, blues, old time, whatever you want to call it.


Folk Music at REVERBNATION.COM

Hope you enjoy!

-Patrick Duffy

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 May 09 - 05:29 PM

There is a modern folk scene that takes place in smaller areas of the country other than
say New York or Los Angeles where local people are writing and sharing songs. Pete's birthday parties over the US brought many of these people together including those in Georgia.

The answer to the question lies beyond the so-called folk "Meccas". There are numerous gatherings throughout the country where people congregate to sing. Here in the Atlanta area, there are many and some done in private homes not on a concert stage.

There are many older people who remember the Weavers, Pete, Woody and others from the past with nostalgia but there are younger people who are learning about some of the performers who were part of the "Revival". The songs carry the interest. "Rise Up Singing" has wisely introduced a larger print book of many of these songs to make them available to any who like to gather to sing. No more "Rise up Squinting".

The "scenes" are not as obvious as they once were because they aren't always comprised of professional entertainers but many amateurs have become quite good.

Pete's teaching that local is better than national is congruent with the pattern he has established for years in disseminating folk music.

I am not qualified to comment on the UK scene but from what I read here on Mudcat,
it is quite vibrant.

Frank

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Aeola
Date: 08 May 09 - 05:16 PM

Perhaps the thread should be 'where is the current folk scene?'

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 09 - 09:42 PM

Thanks. It's easy. I just think of you.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: TheSnail
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:28 PM

Glad to see, Bruce Murdoch, that you can spell "arse" properly.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:12 PM

"Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: TheSnail - PM
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:36 PM

Who hijacked this thread that started with a simple question about a folk scene

I think it started here."


Maybe so, Bryan Creer, but then imo most folks outside your area just want music, and they aren't so far up their own arses about "what's really folk".

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:54 PM

I thought I'd found the modern folk scene down the back of the sofa, turned out it was only part of an old sandwich.. blecchh!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:20 PM

I went to Greenwitch village for a spell

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Aeola
Date: 07 May 09 - 05:15 PM

From reading some of the foregoing it seems to me that folk is all around us, like what George said!!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: High Hopes (inactive)
Date: 07 May 09 - 04:47 PM

How the rest of the world looks at the UK and what the rest of the world thinks of the UK has never been a concern to me

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 09 - 01:34 PM

"I find most Americans splendid too, at least the ones who range outside their home state or read a newspaper."

I find that often there are reasons why some people never venture beyond their home state and do not or cannot read a newspaper. I try not to stereotype or judge because there are often underlying conditions.

In the end I think we all should be proud of our country and home, no matter how the rest of the world looks at it.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:57 PM

Has the UK fallen in stature? We've certainly put expansionist empire adventures behind us but the boundaries are what they always were - save a few soft bits around east yorkshire.

If you're alluding to militarism Britain still has one of, if not the most professional armies in the world always willing to take on overwhelming odds and financial trading is centred on London. Neither mean a jot to me but I haven't noticed a sudden collapse in world standing. Take away TV representations and I find most Americans splendid too, at least the ones who range outside their home state or read a newspaper.

Meantime, we have our own Greenwich.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:41 AM

... and lets not forget the surreal people!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:26 AM

Thank you, it's been a pleasure playing infront of real people *LOL*

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:12 AM

Congratulations

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:11 AM

I think not
Actually it was glueman I was quoting in the first place, but ya know what, I FULLY concur with him.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 09 - 09:53 AM

"Yes you did!!"

No, I did not. Read again. You accused me of saying all "limeys" (your word) are whiners.   What I said was :   

"If anyone ever wonders why the UK has fallen in stature, all they need to do is look at some of the posting on Mudcat. What miserable bunch of whiners. "

I think we can both agree that not everyone in the UK posts to Mudcat. I also think that when I said "some of the posting" that most intelligent people would understand that does not mean EVERYONE, nor does it infer that I can talking about anyone outside of the posting.

Rifleman, you have shown yourself to be nothing more than a hapless troll looking to start trouble.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 07 May 09 - 07:27 AM

If folk is the music then it's in rude good health on the right side of the pond. Rachel Unthank, Mawkin Causley, Bellowhead, Kate Rusby draw in large numbers, many of whom one wouldn't suspect of liking historical acoustic music (awaits definitioneering). The crowds are certainly in the festival and touring circuit. If that encourages people to pick up an instrument and learn some old tunes, so much the better.

If by scene you're looking for folk's Haight-Ashbury, a community of lifestyle folkies you may be disappointed. There was a record in the seventies called, 'part time punks'. What we have now is part-time folk.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 07 May 09 - 07:05 AM

Well, it all depends what you mean by … (tease, tease) … "scene", doesn't it?

If you are primarily a listener, then you could start by making a list of your favourite performers, and Google them, to find out if any are playing in your area anytime soon. Go to a concert, hang around the foyer and/or bar before and after the show, and particularly during the interval.   Pick up any leaflets on offer, and try to strike up a conversation about the music with anyone who looks friendly. If there is a "scene" in your area, that will probably lead you to it.

If you are a performer, finding a place to show off your talent may be a little harder. ("For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew, 22.14.) In the USA, I suspect that a Google search coupling the name of your locality with the phrase "open mike" might be a helpful start.

On our side of the pond, we still have this archaic thing called the "folk club".   Some of them run small-scale concerts, where you can often hear good performers at reasonable prices. Young and unknown performers often complain that breaking into this circuit is difficult.

On the other hand there are clubs where you can have a five minute spot pretending to be a star - in exchange for spending two hours listening to other people pretending that they are stars.   Many aspiring performers claim that breaking out of this circuit is difficult.

Perhaps the best method might be to put a video of yourself on Youtube, and see if anyone emails you offering a gig. One can always hope!

Alternatively, you could join a Morris side, or a ceilidh band. Plenty of vocal and instrumental music-making goes on informally around the fringes of folk-dance events, and in my experience this is often more enjoyable than the packaged and managed fare you get served at clubs and festivals.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 May 09 - 04:52 AM

How refreshing. People getting arsy and sensitive, pedantic and argumentative in a thread with a title such as this, and the argument is not even about what is f%lk (I try to avoid Diane's term, in case she sues me for copyright).

The folk scene meanwhile is thriving in tavernas, at weddings, funerals and christenings, in little out-of-the way clubs and main auditoria, in churches and at demonstrations. In Greece, that is. I guess you couldn't give two flying fucks of a rat's arse (when in doubt mix it all together) for that, but I thought I'd impart the knowledge anyway.

But assuming that you are US-based (because of the Greenwich Village reference), I'd say pay attention to Diane's pointers, she knows what she is talking about. Additionally, try joining a Folk Society such as the ones in Washington, Baltimore etc - even if you are a reasonable distance from such places, as they will keep you informed of what is happening and once you have a foot in you will find your own path to what you like best. There are house concerts taking place too. Scour the internet for links, go to your favourite artist's websites and check out their "gigs" page - that will give you a few clues too.

Because I don't believe there is one "scene", there are several, spread out. But in this way you should be able to find "your" scene which caters for "your" f%lk music. And if you can't find it, heck, start it yourself.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 May 09 - 05:49 PM

"From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:11 AM

If anyone ever wonders why the UK has fallen in stature, all they need to do is look at some of the posting on Mudcat. What miserable bunch of whiners. No one really givs a rats arse about your squabbles."

From: WFDU - Ron Olesko - PM
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:19 PM

"You know, in the same way that you assume all limeys are whiners."

I never said that"

Yes you did!!

Does anyway ACTUALLY listen to this WFDU? Just asking, you understand....

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:56 PM

On the "left coast," we have always had a thriving traditional or folk music community in the Seattle area, dating back to at least the early 1950's. I note events for that area posted on line quite frequently, many under the aegis of the Pacific Northwest Folklore Society.

Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona, both have active folk venues and a number of musicians. Dolan Ellis is a good example.

San Francisco and L.A., I have not seen as much of in recent years.
I haven't kept up on opportunities there, but I'm certain they still exist in numbers.

In the central valley of California, Fresno has a folklore society and a large group of traditional musicians, some of whom date back to the old Sweets Mill mountain festivals and before.

In San Diego, there are several coffee houses which cater to a traditional music clientele and a large roots music festival takes place on Adams Avenue each year. In short, wherever you live (speaking only for the States), you have only to poke around a bit to find an outlet.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Aeola
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:11 PM

Wouldn't it be miserable if we only enjoyed one type of music!! As for the ref to ''' miserable bunch of whiners''' I was at a Mudcat gather recently and everyone was having a great time!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:39 PM

As a teenager way back just past the middle of the last century, I spent a couple of years in a blur of Soho (mainly, but also Earls Court and Hampstead coffee bars and pubs), in New York City and Haight/Ashbury and on the Left Bank of the Seine in Paris. This was what we were pleased (sometimes even proud) to call the "f*lk scene" and some of us thought (ha!) we were the bees' knees.

A few years ago, I was in New York City again. Not a lot of the same remained in Greenwich Village though the East Village was OK musically, but in Washington Square the very same (I'd almost swear) chord bashers were oh so in evidence and the Woodstock village green was overflowing with the grandchildren of Dylan/Band wannabes still wailing LARS in waves across the decades. However I'm relieved to report that real trad music is indeed still there across the pond, in the Virginias and Carolinas if there is someone to show you where to look, which fortunately, I had.


Meanwhile, back in England, nothing remains in Soho (OK, there's the 12-Bar, but the Jansch/Renbourn school never thought of themselves as "f*lk", it was just that the new invention, the "cl*bs", gave them money to practice). English music had long since migrated north-eastwards to Islington and thereabouts and many set off, Uhers and free reed things in backpacks, to see what was still around in the English villages. Quite a lot, actually. "Good ol' boys" (those who'd returned from world wars and their descendants) were playing for Morris and social dance, cared not a flying fuck for year zero (or 1954 as it is sometimes known), nor had they ever heard of the "f*lk cl*b" and didn't really want to, though one or two thought it a bit of a lark to trot along and get paid.

Today's teens and 20s are (compared to most of us) consummate musicians with a deep knowledge and love of trad music, among many other genres. Just don't make the mistake of labelling them "the modern f*lk scene". If there's a banjo among them its vellum will encircle your neck.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Banjiman
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:34 PM

"Now WHAT do we do?"

Well, I'm off to play my banjo in a reeaallly modern way...... would that count?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:29 PM

Banjiman: You got it. WE are IT! :<)

Now WHAT do we do?
bob

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:22 PM

"This is what happens when you Google "Where is the modern folk scene?"..." But of course!

It,s remarks like those of "Peace"...It's simply not worth going there.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Banjiman
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:20 PM

Bob,

Clearly it's here then!

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:17 PM

This is what happens when you Google "Where is the modern folk scene?"...
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Where+is+the+modern+folk+scene%3F+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Jayto
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:41 PM

Forget definitions man. Definitions are for people who aren't playing enough. If you think the people on here are confused what do you think about the crowds out there that are clueless as to what folk is. We can't even agree on here and we all have a love for folk music. I played a rock festival a few wks ago. I played an all out rock set with electric distorted guitars, bass, drums very fast punk influenced (ask Bankley he was there with me). Since then I have had all kinds of people telling me how much they dug the "Folk" set that I did. I bet noone at any of the gigs I have played in the past yr has a clue about the 50's definition and even less care. Play what comes from your soul. I could care less about definitions. Most people don't know the difference between a song that sounds old and a song that is old. Old in modern music is something that was released a month ago. I love folk music and have spent over half of my life learning songs, styles, stories behind the music, and so on. I love it but man when I play out I am always approached by tons of people that think I wrote the songs. I do mix my originals in and always point out what are trad and what are mine. In the end the crowd doesn't differentiate between mine and the trad songs. It means IMHO that they like the music but don't care if they are original or trad.
Once again just my opinion
cya
JT

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: TheSnail
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:36 PM

Who hijacked this thread that started with a simple question about a folk scene

I think it started here.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Hey, red:

Having been blessed with being in Greenwich Village from 1960-64, it's unlikely that you'll find a place quite so overflowing with music, with a half a dozen coffee houses in the length of one block.
These types of questions usally spin off crazily into folk humor (of sorts) and that's fine, I suppose. Nothing wrong with a good laugh.
When people post a question asking where they can hear or play folk music without giving a clue as to where they are, it's almost impossible to make a helpful suggestion. Unless you're independently wealthy, don't need to work and can relocate anywhere on the earth, a better question is, "Where can I listen to and play folk music in the ____________ area?" Then we might be able to help.

Glad you're looking...

Jerry

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Hi Kids: The only "scene" that I'm aware of in Montreal and environs is in the hands of brave individual promoters and the Artists themselves. The Yellow Door continues as a shadow of it's former self. Places like the Side Door have shows on the West Island.

There are rumblings of Folksiness up and down Blvd. St. Laurent, but I'm out of the loop on that. Performers who have been in the game for a LONG time rent halls and roll the dice to see if any $$$ can be made.

Toronto seems to have more activity, but I'm not the one to ask about that. Most "Folkies" I know travel cross country, doing clubs & festivals here and there.

The joke is that EVERYBODY seems to play guitar these days, and places like Smoked Meat Pete's off the island are packed on Jam nights. TWO per week! Thursdays & Fridays. But that's mostly Blues and Rock with a tiny bit of "Folkish" songs.

That whole Greenwich Village thing was a SPECIAL point in time. Like a comet, here and then gone forever.

When you consider that Folk is now "specialty programming" on radio, mostly College & Internet, it will tell you a lot about where the "Folk Scene" is today.

I should pre-empt all of this by telling you that Im pretty much of a hermit when it comes to actually going out and checking "wats hattenin" so there could easily be something going on and I really wouldn't be aware of it.

Looks like you are going to have to "ride the rails" and check it out for yourself. But you will probably be playing on streetcorners or in the subway. Doin' that Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger thang.

Or as Charlie Parker once asked, "how do I get to the Village?" The answer, "start walking, take out your horn and start to play, and when nobody listens or looks at you, you're there..."

Or as one Genius said, "the new currency of this decade will be getting somebody to pay attention..." bob

p.s. check MySpace and head for the nearest Festival...

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Here's a thing. Take the number 1954. Add 1 and 9 to get 10. Add 5 and 4 you get 9. Add the 10 and the 9 = 19. Add the 1 and the 9 to get 10. Add 1 and 0, you get 1.

Now tell me that isn't a Illuminati, zionist, middle-easty, world banking inspired plot with a grassy knoll topping? The truth, if not folk music, is out there....


...how much evidence do you need? I say we have a war. Shares in Lockheed and Northrop anyone?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:29 PM

*sigh* one more time
the question was: Where is the modern folk scene?

some people (including me) came right out and said that we really don't care (to be polite about it). I'll further add to that. Some people tend to confuse acoustic (or electric)driven singer/songwriters with folk musicians

Of course then you would have to define what you mean by.......... and I'm definitely not going there.

I see no confusion.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Jayto
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:29 PM

Who was that said "Don't find the scene be the scene." I remember reading it but I can't remember who it was.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:24 PM

I don't think that in the uk there is a folk scene with a specific geographical location.
There are places that you can go and hear music played live and unamplified at regular intervals.
There are proper folk clubs around I believe.
I think the scene is where the music happens to be being played or perhaps away down south in the filo fax of the BEEB.
Of course you should really define what you mean by..........

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:19 PM

"You know, in the same way that you assume all limeys are whiners."

I never said that.   Read carefully.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:17 PM

I'm with Jayto, whatever country we're talking.
Besides I can't hate somewhere that gave us Leadbelly, Michael Hurley and Clarence Ashley. All ending in Y, hmmm? There's a conspiracy there to keep US TV going for years.
I hope you can find it in yourself to love The Spicegirls and Benny Hill.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:12 PM

To quote (or misquote) the great D. L. Menard, "Wherever you're at, there you are!"

Ross

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Jayto
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:10 PM

Man forget the "Folk Scene" I think alot of folk performers are really hurting themselves by tryin to find a "Folk Scene" and playing for people that are "Folkies". The key to the survival of the scene and the music is to get it out to people that may not normally listen to it. I prefer playing non-folk settings to be honest. People that haven't heard all the old songs are alot more responsive alot of times than people that have in my experience. Plus you light a spark that may send a few people at each performance out in search of the folk stuff which adds to it's survival. Sometimes it bombs with a crowd but other times it explodes. Even if only one or two people dig it at a gig that may be the one or two people that are the nwxt link in the chain. Folk is as musically relevant as any other music form out there even though it doesnt seem to be booking as good. Present it as a musical equal to all other forms and it will be accepted as such by the crowds and venues. Don't paint yourself in a corner with a novelty tag.
Just my opinion
cya
JT

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Banjiman
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:08 PM

"No one was shooting, I thought we were having a heated discussion."

Oh, apologies Ron, I was assuming that all Americans resorted to shooting to win a heated discussion (must be just your government then). You know, in the same way that you assume all limeys are whiners.

Irony?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:04 PM

"Makes sense to me. others may have different opinions. So what IS so hard to understand? "

I'm not sure - it seems like you misunderstood the original posters question.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:02 PM

He meant friendly frier, the chip shop in Wigan. We're in consonental europe now. With irritable vowel syndrome.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:59 AM

Only class I know of is the one I teach.

now..as to today's lesson

The Question: Where is the modern folk scene?

the answer from a few was:
In defence of us Limeys, you guys do realise that apart from three people on Mudcat the rest of the UK don't give a rat's ARSE?

Makes sense to me. others may have different opinions. So what IS so hard to understand?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:59 AM

No one was shooting, I thought we were having a heated discussion.

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: Banjiman
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:56 AM

OK Ron, I surrender. Hopefully that means you'll stop shooting?

Subject: RE: Where is the modern folk scene?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:51 AM

Plus when Tony Blair volunteered to bring Brits back in boxes to help George Dubya out a hole. Plus when the UK was an aircraft carrier from US escapades, plus extraordinary renditions of English folk tunes by men in East Anglian pubs.

However you did give us the Simpsons, Cheers and Will and Grace so I won't talk about the irony curtain. We're about quits, n'est ce pas?