BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 04:09 PM

*day-liah*,

I don't think that your message is 'thread drift' at all. It addresses the very hub of the issue.

I am of the view that, in order for something to be 'true' it does need to be physically demonstrable and REPLICABLE.

I'm quite sure that individuals have had astonishing, even unbelievable experiences. However, when it's only the word of one individual, then it's completely useless, as we have no way of deciding if they 'made it up' were mislead or whatever.

Science differs from religion in one profound way. Science wants to be proved wrong. It is always a 'best guess' and is happy to admit error when some further experiment shows something that doesn't fit with the current theory.

Religion (or any belief system) is fundamentally different, in that the basic world view is fixed, and any new discovery is moulded into the belief system as it alrealy stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 02:45 PM

The only way I know of is to experience it directly, to reflect on that experience and then test it by applying it to my own life in practical ways. If it IS valid, then it WILL 'work'! Then I KNOW it must be 'truth'.

I don't know of any way to 'prove' it to someone else, though. I've found that even trying to do so is counter-productive because it just leads to arguments, ridicule and disbelief.

And probably thread-drift too...

daylia

PS if something must be physically demonstrable and REPLICABLE in order to be 'truth', does that mean that 'truth' itself must be 'cloned' in order to be proven????

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 02:07 PM

And how would one prove 'truth?'

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 02:05 PM

PS - When I studied the Bible at university, the first thing the professor did was distinguish between 'fact' and 'truth'. She said that while all 'facts' are necessarily 'truth', not all 'truths' are 'facts'.
Therefore, while much of what is in the Bible is NOT 'fact' (ie. we can't prove it scientifically), that doesn't mean that it's not 'truth'.

Now, there's an exercise in 'open-mindedness'!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 01:45 PM

People who accept everything they are told for the sake of appearing 'open-minded' are in for some unpleasant surprises and some very hard knocks, to be sure. That's not what I meant by being 'open-minded'. I meant being flexible enough to investigate different ideas and methods, without getting too attached to any of them! I've had some experiences with cult-like groups and charismatic 'guru-types' myself, and I'm grateful that I still have an interest in spiritual matters at all after those experiences! The most important thing I've learned is to TRUST MYSELF. And to guard the trust I give to others MOST carefully!

If I told you about my personal 'spiritual experiences', most likely they would mean NOTHING to you - because they are specifically tailored to/designed by MY OWN PERSONAL HISTORY, EXPERIENCES and NEEDS, which are not the same as anyone elses! As yours are for you.

So it's probably wisest to say nothing at all. I should have known better - pardon me.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 01:41 PM

The only real issue here is whether or not the people who are cloned will have the same sort of medical problems that animal clones have presented.

And if they have, what is the culpability in law of those carrying out the work? Are we talking murder, grevious bodily harm or merely a breach of some regulation incurring a fine well within the resources of a group who - if this is genuine - obviously have a lot a cash at their disposal?

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 01:27 PM

No one with this organization, according to everything I have thus far read, has any experience with the science of fertility. So, there are PhD's in the field who say that we are not ready to clone a human being, but these cultists have managed it?

As for the soul of a clone...

Clones are no different than identical twins genetically. They are different people with the same gene sequences. Environment and experience can make for totally different people, regardless of what genes you start with. The only real issue here is whether or not the people who are cloned will have the same sort of medical problems that animal clones have presented. For me, that is the only ethical question...that, and whether or not the eejits in government will allow slavery and worse by interperting the laws to say that clones are not truly human, and therefor don't have any rights.

Additionally, what this cult is looking to do is engineer ("create") life, as they believe we have been engineered by aliens. Cloning is no more a creative thing than taking the Mona Lisa off the wall and photocopying it. They seem to believe that Aliens are the source of life, and that evolution and creationism are useless theories that their "knowledge" refutes.

My only question then is this: How did the Aliens come to be? Sooner or later, any sentient creature will need to take another step back and realize that they have been focusing on the egg, but forgot to ask who laid it, and what egg did that chicken come from, and who laid *it*? Their religious theories are shot through with holes, as is their science.

And, considering all of this, the juries out (for me, at least) until the Mother and Daughter are tested by a completely unbiased medical team.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:53 PM

Bill, you probably won't convince anyone. Just wanted to say that I agree with you all the way.

I'm sure that you've probably read Carl Sagan's 'Demon Haunted World'?

I've given a copy of that book to a few people. Didn't change any minds though. A shame.

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:49 PM

"The subtle or not so subtle pressure is to accept everything they are told, or they will be labeled "intolerant" or "close minded"."

Amen...well...you know what I mean...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Alice
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:45 PM

Hi, Mick, in 1992 I began looking for information on how people start destructive cults and why people join them. I knew a family that was in an apocalyptic cult. The cult had moved from California to Montana - the three year old girl in the family was raped by one of the cult members. It was a motivation for me to find out how to inform people so they would not put themselves and their children in the hands of unscrupulous groups and leaders.

By the way, one of the methods cult recruiters use is to keep telling people to keep an open mind. The subtle or not so subtle pressure is to accept everything they are told, or they will be labeled "intolerant" or "close minded". People will go to great lengths to be accepted as open minded, to the point of not thinking reasonably, rationalizing information that is inconsistent, adapting to the group think in order to not make waves, conforming to new behavior and ideas in order to not appear prejudiced.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM

"If people really want to know the truth, they need only let go of all pre-judgements, keep their minds open"

"'proven' - but only to me of course "

" find a personal 'method of investigation' that WORKS, for them"

*sigh*...as long as subjectivity is accepted as a valid basis for 'truth', there can be 6 Billion 'truths' operating simultaneously, many of which are totally contradictory.

I consider my mind to BE open...I have read the Bible, Edgar Cayce, The Upanishads, Ohaspé, The Urantia Book(well, parts of it...I wonder who has read it all!), Hegel, Kant, Schroëdenger, and countless other philosopher & theologians, innumerable science fiction stories which I'd LOVE to believe.....and 1000s of posts by well-meaning Mudcatters, and I see Christians at odds with each other, pagans who believe in witchcraft at odd with Christians, rationalists at odds with ALL of them...etc.

I KNOW the feelings refered to as 'heart-stuff', and I respond to them, but I have no way of knowing that they are not just 'mind-stuff' that I can't understand..(and indeed, much recent evidence suggests that a lot of what we 'are' IS pre-programmed by chemistry and neurological wiring!)...could I be wrong? Perhaps....to me, an open mind means being always open to new proofs, but to me, also, 'proof' means something that is NOT different for person to person.

I KNOW, of course, that one person's life and subjective relationship to the universe is not the same as others, but there is big difference between saying that I operate more comfortably with certain 'models', and saying that my models are 'true'! "Truth" should be a word reserved for facts that are replicable and demonstrable, not a Sophistic way of making YOUR belief system seem more solid than other's.

(why is this important?...because there are folks out there killing each other every day because they don't get my point! "Gott ist mit uns" is simply a more extreme example, taken to excessive conclusions.)

well...I shan't keep this up indefinately, as it serves to convince no one, probably. It is mostly a way of helping myself condense and explicate what I think. And, perhaps, a germ of an idea may get passed on.....stranger things have happened. And who knows....maybe **I** will have an experience that changes my mind...*sly grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:10 PM

Thanks, Alice, for a well balanced report. You are the resident expert on cult related things here, and your research is always impeccable. I also appreciate the "matter of fact" way you always present it. This gives it a great deal of credibility.

Obviously you, or someone you love, had an experience with a cult. Whatever the case, you have come out the other side in a very positive way, and as a very effective voice. Congratulations.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:04 PM

Cue new cliche.....

Like mother like daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Alice
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:01 PM

For an updated list of news articles on the Raelian clone topic:
http://www.factnet.org/LatestCultNews.htm?FACTNet

The Raelian cult actually has its headquarters in Canada. You can read more about them here:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/raelians/raelians26.html
------------
QUOTE IN PART:
In the small farming community of Valcourt (northeast of Montreal) the group has established UFOland as their
headquarters and embassy to the world. The building itself is part office complex and part museum. For two weeks every summer Raelians gather
there for meetings and meditation.

In 1998 Vorilhon announced to his followers that the alien creators of Earth would soon return to Earth and it was necessary to expedite preparations
for this second coming. One of the essential first steps was the recruitment of a number of young women members into the Order of the Angels to
serve as hostesses and sexual mates for the arriving progenitors of humans. Within this order was a select group who agreed only to sleep with the
aliens and their prophets, including of course Vorilhon. Vorilhon, however, emphasizes that the angels are under no pressure to sleep with him,
since the Raelians teach sexual freedom and not coercion.

The movement thrives on media attention and Vorilhon deliberately seeks it out, especially on sex issues. For example, to protest a 1992 decision in
Quebec barring condom machines at certain Quebec high schools, the Raelians passed out condoms to students from a van adorned with large
spaceships. The group also bought billboard space in Toronto to welcome extraterrestrial visitors. Vorilhon also makes pronouncements about some
world-shaking events which will take place but which only true Raelians will know of. Like others who make such statements, those which have
become known are sufficiently vague to meet almost any chance occurrence. ..... "
------------------

More information can be found on this page:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/raelians.html

Claude Vorilhon, the cult leader and founder, uses the classic techniques of control exhibited by totalistic cults. He recruits using psychological manipulation and undue influence, the ideology is made more important than personal human rights, with sexual partners being recruited for his use by convincing them that their compliance is part of the sect's belief system.

The Raelians are only one of many, many cults using psychological coersion, undue influence, and other unethical tactics to recruit and retain members. Our freedom of belief in the US is one of our greatest strengths and also our Achilles heel, because anyone can start a religion based on anything. People who are vulnerable to persuasion and influence can be led into groups like this and used for the leader's purposes. It happens every day, to intelligent, talented people. With the right "hook", someone can easily be led step by step into a cult, if what the cult is offering is an "answer" to the person's particular dilemma or search at that time in their life. Cult thinking is akin to the fundamentalist fanaticism that is behind terrorism.

The current administration is completely naive about the problem of cults. The Washington Times, owned by the Moonies, is deliberately using its influence to gain more power in the US for Sun Myung Moon. The Bush family has been used many times as a front for the Moonies. Other cults are less public but just as insidious in draining away the financial resources, talent, time, and labor of their recruits.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 11:30 AM

Interesting thread!

One thing is certain - "soul" is something that resists all the efforts of the mind to prove or disprove it. The great thinkers - like Socrates and Plato - have been trying for millenium and it hasn't worked yet. It just produces endless, brain-twisting arguments that imo are a total waste of time.

Similiarly, "soul" is not something that can be proven or disproven scientifically. Every time a scientist comes close, the 'evidence' is discredited by attitudes like Very Skeptical S. in Seattle, above - "A PhD in physics, after all, is not an inoculation against foolishness".

Well, Galileo and Christopher Columbus were considered pretty foolish, crazy - even 'heretical' - in their day too.

So I can only rely on personal experience. And for what it's worth, my experiences have 'proven' - but only to me of course - that Dr. Wayne Dyer is exactly right when he says "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience".

If people really want to know the truth, they need only let go of all pre-judgements, keep their minds open and find a personal 'method of investigation' that WORKS, for them. It comes from the heart, not the mind, though - because there is a big difference between 'knowledge' (the 'mind-stuff') and wisdom (the 'heart-stuff' gained through experience AND knowledge). And I suspect that will be true for 'clones' as well!

Thanks for the chance to share my thoughts - daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 11:26 AM

oh, BTW..."babies and bathwater" as a metaphor in this case escapes me. I can SEE babies.

Occam's Razor is a bit easier for me to relate to.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 11:20 AM

well, Amos....I suspect that when I leave my body, it will be because I am NOT healthy...*big grin*.....(and I am not telling anyone what to think, either...not that it would do any good anyway.)

as to.... "The role of soul is as much a part of the mix as the role of energy itself, I suspect."........I can see 'energy' on a meter..(I get a bill each month for one type, and I watch other types manefested in various ways every day)...but in the 50 years I have been seriously looking, I have not seen anything ....repeat, with emphasis, **ANYTHING**....that could not be explained some other way besides referring to a soul. (Yeah, yeah, I have been told that I unfortunately didn't get 'wired' properly...*even bigger grin*)....but I have never seen a ghost, a flying saucer, an aura, or heard 'voices' or "felt a spirit move over me"... I HAVE experienced many emotions and seen things I couldn't see the immediate causes of, but it simply never occurred to me to attribute them to the supernatural.   

*shrug*....You can guess how many times in 6 years here I have NOT bothered to post my bemused sceptical viewpoint....

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

BillD;

One healthy out-of-body experience can cure that, mate! The role of soul is as much a part of the mix as the role of energy itself, I suspect. Not for me to tell ya what to think or anything, but I'd be shy of throwing out babies with bathwaters as they say.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: allanwill
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 10:43 AM

Sorry, forgot to put this acknowledgement in my previous post.

Many thanks to Sara Jordan for permission to publish these lyrics.
© Sara Jordan Publishing. All rights reserved.
This song is performed on "Healthy Habits,"
Available from Sara-Jordan.com

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 10:35 AM

This subject seems to affect me a bit differently than it does others....it brings up a chain of thoughts that it is impossible to do justice to in a short post, but here are some brief parts of it.

It is certainly 'possible' to clone a person, though I seriously doubt that this group has really done that.......but....if they have, of if anyone does, the person will have just as much 'soul' as any of us...exactly none.

We are a complex organism--complex enough that we are capable of reflecting on our own existence and postulating about causation, and every possible theory has been advanced by someone or some group. Having a 'soul' which supercedes the body and lives beyond it is certainly a pretty and entertaining idea, but it is no more than that. What we 'are' is created BY us, and beauty, love, happiness, art, joy etc., are real enough without recourse to artificial constructs.

The universe does not care what we are or what we do...only WE care, and with all our complex nature, we are not clever enough as a group yet to see what our place is, and what it will take to keep ourselves functioning until the laws of physics eventually end all this.

Cloning is foolish--not because it is "against God's law" or "tampering with the soul"..etc, but because we are not smart enough to use the ability sanely and fairly. IF we are ever able to treat humans born naturally with dignity, and control their numbers, then possibly cloning could serve some function, but right now it is 90% just a parlor trick that we try to do because we might be able to do it. The other 10% is understandable, but misguided.

I am sorry for childless couples who want kids, but there are other alternatives, and in the future, if we want to survive as a species with any hope of a decent life, many more people will have to limit or forego having children. I do not expect that those who think differently will cease trying to clone people, but they are just adding unnecessary problems to a world that can't cope with the scientific abilities they already have.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: allanwill
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 10:17 AM

Mr Happy

"what's a 'soul'?" - the opening at the end of the alimentary canal.

All Aboard! All Aboard! For a cruise down The Alimentary Canal!


Chorus:
Come take a cruise
' just takes a day.
The Alimentary Canal,
it'll whisk us away.


The canal will amaze you
as it changes in size.
We'll see many organs
along the ride.


The first stop's the mouth
where saliva and teeth
chew and prepare us
for the things we will see.


Chorus


We'll travel the esophagus
to a big spot.
They call this the stomach.
It holds quite a lot.


Then on to the intestines,
first small and then large.
They'll expand as we pass
and make room for our barge.


Chorus


Some special juices
will make our trip smooth.
We'll slither along
and slowly move.


And for this cruise
what do we pay?
Our blood takes our nutrients
by the end of the day.


Chorus

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: MAG
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 09:57 AM

Science fic has explored these themes quite thoroughly, including the ethics of producing a human as a spare parts bank or entire body.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 07:06 AM

It's funny you know, but when I see the word "cult" used in this context,I always think it's a spelling mistake.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 04:17 AM

Don, that's a real puzzlement. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 01:07 AM

If a person is cloned and the X or Y chromosome is altered so the clone becomes the opposite sex of the original person and that person then has sex with his or her clone: Is it masterbation or incest?

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 12:18 AM

Well, you'd have to prove that the nervous system was where data was retained. I doubt it in light of the number of details an individual can potemntialy recall and the completeness of memory records which seem to be available. I am skeptical of even a hologramic system storing that much information in the number of binary sites in the brain. Even the whole body. But I think someone ought to do a more precise estimate. One problem is, there is no full developed model for mapping nerves or brain to memory data. 'S far as I know the best we have so far is a rough map of where some kinds of activity seem to show up as active areas. The whole process is so poorly understood I'd be shy of asserting any physical model with any confidence.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: TIA
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 10:38 PM

Don't worry, they're full of crap. You heard it here. Take it to the bank. What they're talking about is not truly "cloning" anyhow, so their ignorance is on display.

Saw the leader interviewed, and he said the purpose was immortality -- i.e. clone yourself, then "transfer the data from your mind into the clone". Now THAT'S the tricky part. Nuts, nuts, nuts.

Scary part is that someday, someone will actually do it, so perhaps it's good if these kooks spur us to work out all the ethical issues now.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM

Mr. Happy, the part of you that loves. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 10:16 PM

what's a 'soul'?

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST,boweaver
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 10:14 PM

-
I can see the T-Shirts now:

"I ain't no ordinary screwed-up human.

"I was cloned."

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 10:08 PM

(quote)
"I dunno why such a "designer cult" should be French, though -- "

I dunno either , but there it is.
I'm also just playing on the predominant impression of the French predelection for contrarianess as such a point of pride especially attributable to them.

Then again they produced Rene'Descartes and the cult of Cartesian science that provided the foundation for Science as an aethestic *religion* unto itself from which the fashionable "enlightenment" arose ; an elightenment that led to le Revolution and unleashed "the Terror" .
Then again the French are not unacquainted with the cult of power for power's sake under Napoleon which the Terror successfully prepared the way for.
Lest we also forget the father of science fiction : Jules Verne.

Yeah , I never suggested that there be any reason that the Raelian cult "should" be French , but after this off-the-cuff list pedigree lineage whom here is at all surprised .


(quote)
"Hubbard, James Jones, the Appleby guy and numerous other cult leaders have been US born and corn-bred!"

Oh no doubt. I'll match y'all with other U.S. Grade A certified cult flakes ( David Koresh comes to mind ) , but I'm sorry the Raelians are just who they are and that can't be changed now.
Rael even dresses as if he's out of central casting from a canceled Star Trek episode while giving his impression of some
California version of Captain Nemo.

This is a pure ,dyed-in-the-wool ,French cult leader at the forefront of perhaps "the" most chillingly contraversial issue at the dawn of the 21st century ; *commercial" human cloning for profit. Can a French version Ridley Scott's TYRELL Corporation
be far behind.

" Where have you gone Eric VonDonnikan...
our nation turns its lonely eyes to you...
woo , woo , woo "

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 09:08 PM

The silly season now extends right round the year, it appears.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: MAG
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:50 PM

Those Hale-Bop people were supposed to be real intelligent -- they just didn't have the common sense of a gnat. I'll suspend judgement on whether they've done it, and just worry myself sick over who may control this. Nightmarish scenarios ensue.

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Amos
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:26 PM

Scientists are not yet convinced the child is actually a "clone" of her mother (that is, completely matching in DNA to the one parent).

I dunno why such a "designer cult" should be French, though -- Hubbard, James Jones, the Appleby guy and numerous other cult leaders have been US born and corn-bred!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:25 PM

Interesting you should say that, Little Hawk. Given that a soul is the entity (as believed by me) which has a body, rather than having the emphasis other way 'round, how does a clone enter into that belief system? Could it be that the body 'acquires' a soul with its first physical breath? Surely it wouldn't mean that a cloned body would not have all the attributes of other human beings? Including the soul?

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Stewart
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:18 PM

From "What's New - by Robert Parks" http://www.aps.org/WN/
"HUMAN CLONING: RAELIANS ANNOUNCE THE BIRTH OF BABY "EVE." Do you recall the controversy stirred up by physicist Richard Seed, PhD Harvard '53, when he announced his intention to clone the first human? We haven't heard anything from Seed lately, but today the scientific director of Clonaid says her company has created the first human clone. Clonaid was founded by Raelians, a religious group that believes extraterrestrials created humans. There are no details on how the supposed cloning of Eve was achieved, but physicist Michael Guillen, PhD Cornell, has been selected by Clonaid to verify the claim. Guillen has just the credentials Clonaid needs. In 1997 as the science correspondent for ABC Good Morning America, Guillen did a three- part series, "Fringe or Frontier." Of precognition he concluded "these guys are not flakes"; on astrology, "I think we're just going to have to suspend judgement"; on psychokinesis, "you have to take it seriously". Indeed, Guillen covered everything from James Patterson's cold fusion cell to Kirlian photographs of the human aura with the same credulity. A PhD in physics, after all, is not an inoculation against foolishness. We called ABC, but were told emphatically that their relationship with Guillen ended nearly a year ago."

Very Skeptical, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 08:04 PM

You can clone the body...but you can't clone the soul. They may have overlooked that, methinks!

It's just like...you can manufacture identical cars...but you can't manufacture their human drivers, each one of whom is unique, and in a quite unpredictable manner.

Now let's say you clone the body of Marylin Monroe...and it is then entered and given sentient life by the soul of Catspaw49 or R. Crumb or Richard Nixon? What happens then? Do we really want to know? :-)

- LH

Subject: BS: Here come the 'Raelian' clones
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 07:53 PM

Well here comes one of the prime "cult" fringe groups vying for centrstage for 21st century theatre. I mentioned them earlier as one of the "listed" contributors to the so-called "libertarian" march organization. Well now they've cxome out off their alien-directed labs and announced they have indeed created the first human clone and , in no small part , as their "right" as a "religious sect" to commercialize cloning to help fund their greater purpose of promtoing human cloning in order to fulfill the fiat of their cult leader ,one Rael formerly known as French journalist Claude Vorilhon.

Dare I continue the steroetype by saying "Leave it to the French"
to come up with the last word in *designer* cults whom believe it is the destiny of man to be cloned and that it falls to Rael and his followers to be the "chosen" Prometeans of this latest twist to the New World Order.

This beats the Hale-Bop Comet cult which only left behind the most macabre Nike advert ever conceived after committing mass suicide.
You'll have to just do a search on the Raelians and make up your own minds , but this group just hit the publicity lottery "big time".

Welcome to the 21st century.
Beam me up. ;-)