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Capoing: What Key?
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Capoing: What Key? |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Tyke Date: 05 Mar 08 - 06:31 PM Just a little point but and important one if you are in a session or singeround with musicians sat about waiting and wanting to join in with you. If someone has a Melodeon it's likely to be in the key of G and D but ask them as Guitarist you should be able to Capo to Key so that they can join in with you. Tell people the Key that you are going to play the song or tune in don't hide your fingerboard under the table when you play then others can see your chord changes. Most important thing is that you enjoy yourself and have a good time and that will best be achieved if everyone else enjoys the session. |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: M.Ted Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:20 PM I you simply learn the names of the notes on your guitar, (even just the bass strings)then, capo or not, you will always know what chord you are playing, because the note names don't change-- |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Nick Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM Guest - You're probably right. The five shapes of CAGED are something that Eric Roche and David Mead go on about quite a lot and they know/knew considerably more than me. If you play a C - x32010 and a D as xxO232 then they are structured differently; the C is Root,3rd,5th,Root,3rd and the D is Root,5th,Root,3rd so there is some difference. Played this way one doubles the third one doesn't - one has 5 notes the other 4. If you barre the C and D shaped chords up the fretboard (which I do) there are things that much harder to play with the C chord shape (eg adding the 4th on the top string) than with the D shape. If you play your D as x54232 or x50232 then yes it is very similar. Don't ask me ask a guitar teacher :) |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 04 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM Good luck, Amos. I'm with you, but every time I try that approach, all I get is a chorus of, "Oh, my head hurts ....." Must be my tone. (Oh, surely not.) Chicken Charlie |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:08 PM Counting is easiest, and very easy. You just need to learn that there are two semitones between all the natural keys, except B to C and E to F, which are just one semitone apart, and you're. Just look at the key shape you are fingering if it was down at the far end and count up the neck to where you are playing it and that'll tell you what you are actually playing. Or do the same to decide where to put the capo so tha the chord shape yo want to play will sound right in some other key. Same applies when you want to play barre chords up the neck, ot chords with some open strings. |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Amos Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:06 PM You gotta get the fundamentals folks, to be masters of this business. Western major scales start on a "tonic" note, the name of the key. In the key of C, the notes are C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C. The intervals between the notes of the scale are used in every key, but the names of the notes are defined by the white keys on the piano in the key of C. The intervals are done in half-note steps, with one fret equalling one half-not step. From C to D is a whole note interval, so is from D to E. But from E to F is only one half step. The intervals go 2-2-1-2-2-2-1 (half-steps). If you are playing in the key of F, the intervals are still the same, but the names of the notes are not whole letters any more, there are some sharps and flats in there. F-2-G-2-A-1-Bb-2-Cb-2-Db-2-Eb-1-F, also known as "three flats". In the key of G the intervals are the same but the names shift accordingly: G-2-A-2-B-1-C-2-D-2-E-2-F#-1-G and so on. You can work this out on a keyboard very easily. In the key of C, it's all white notes. The ebony keys are the sharps and flats. But whatever tonic note you start on, the major scale will have the same intervals: 2-2-1-2-2-2-1 halfnotes or frets. A |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:02 PM Thanks Graham |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Grab Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:58 AM Yes. At least it is today - years back before "well-tempered" intonation became standard, it wouldn't have been. But for today's purposes, it is. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:54 AM So is A# the same as Bb? |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: open mike Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:48 AM easy--Bb is played with the capo on the first fret and then you play A ..and D and E (which become Bb, Eb, F) do you know the 1,4,5, (circle of fifths...) where you usually play those chords...in the key of A, the scale is A,B,C,D,E,F,G and you play the chords corresponding to the 1st, 4th and 5th note of that scale...A, D, and E. google circle of fifths for more music theory info... a good chart can be found here..it also included key signature (the number 0f sharps or flats in that key.) numbera.com/musictheory/theory/images/fifths2.gif this must have been discussed in a previous thread |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:23 AM I second Richard Bridge on this one. You should not be memorizing a chart, you should be learning to rely on counting. Now that you have majors and minors, do you want another chart for sixths, another for sevenths, another for minor sevenths, another for ninths, another for ....? They all work the same way. My advice is to make friends with a piano and pick out a C-major scale on it--just that. Period. Notice where the black keys are and are not, and by next week you will be legendary. (Unless you are already, in which case you'll be super-legendary.) But you are on to a good thing with Nick, about two people not playing in the same position. My very first musical experience was jamming regularly with two other guys. I was the newbie, so I got to play first position rhythm. (This was all on four-string banjos, by the way, but it matters not.) The second guy played the melody, usually somewhere around the fifth fret. The third played high harmonies, way up the neck. In our better moments, we were almost .... orchestral. Well, almost. Chicken Charlie |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:17 AM Some've the folks I play music with often choose Bb as the key. How is it achieved with capo? |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: GUEST Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:13 AM Nick, In practical terms there are only five barre-able shapes (if the word exists) - C A G E D In practical terms, surely a barred D is a barred C with less strings fingered??? |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:09 AM Thanks too: have printed off a couple of copies for friends who find this difficult. I just do the count-up method myself. The thing that causes even more grief is the difference between Key and Start note for a song: having done a lot of music theory myself, it comes as second nature to me, but then if it's capo'ed as well, some folk talk about the real key and others in the chord shape key................ Best to try to keep quiet and let them get on with it, as they won't believe me when I tell them the start note is definitely F#: half an hour later.............. Oh and not to mention if you have any transposing instruments in your midst! (A horrible clash when the reed band met the bagpipes once I recall, as one lot were going by the notation and the other the "ear" key) |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Nick Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM I WAS kidding - I do exactly the same myself when we play together each week and, either with capo or not, try to play the same chords as anyone else playing guitar but somewhere else on the fretboard |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:38 AM Two guitarists playing the same chords all the time CAN be a little boring , but use of the capo can change the whole sound to a surprising degree , even if you only have one playing in open D and the other playing C shapes capo 2 |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:35 AM What I meant was, for example if my Fiends are playing in D capoed on 2 & using C shapes - then I capo on 7 & play G shapes - lifts the pitch of my contribution above theirs & on some numbers can sound almost mandolinish! |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Nick Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:16 AM You're welcome I was amused by the thought of "I also find it useful when playing with others to capo in a different place than them so as to create more harmonies/counter melodies." - if they were, say, playing in D and you capoed at the 6th fret and played an A shaped chord, is that useful? I have a spare mandolin that I use like a frying pan to hit people round the head with when they do that. (I'm only kidding) |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:08 AM Nick, Your little table's exactly what I was after, thanks very much! Also the minors as a bonus - Cheers!! |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Richard Bridge Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:05 AM Counting is best. |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Nick Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:59 AM Argh - hopefully this will format right this time MAJOR CHORDS - Chord along top - Frets down side C A G E DMINOR CHORDS - Only Am Dm Em shapes A E D |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Nick Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:48 AM In practical terms there are only five barre-able shapes (if the word exists) - C A G E D This little chart will take you up to the 12 fret and you can start again then. Chord shape across top, frets down side -
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: GUEST,PMB Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:42 AM Isn't ka-poing the noise of a string snapping? |
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Subject: RE: Capoing: What Key? From: Bernard Quenby Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:33 AM All you need to know is: C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A Bb B and back to the beginning: Count how many frets up the neck you're capoed at. Count up the same number on the list above, e.g. if you're capoed at the fourth fret and playing in E shapes, start from E on the list and count up four, and you're playing in the true key of Ab. If you're capoed at the fifth aand playing in D shapes you're in G Hope this helps |
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Subject: Capoing: What Key? From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:25 AM When playing guitar, its either to accompany myself singing, or to complement others singing & playing. I generally use a capo if I쳌fm singing, so as to have a pitch suitable for my voice on a particular song. I also find it useful when playing with others to capo in a different place than them so as to create more harmonies/counter melodies. I know the most of the keys I쳌fm playing in when capoed, but not all. The ones I know & use frequently are: 2nd fret G shapes = A D shapes = E C shapes = D 3rd fret D shapes = F 5th fret G shapes = C D shapes = G C shapes = F A shapes = D 7th fret G shapes = D C shapes = G D shapes = A A shapes = C Is there a chart or guide available to show all the capo positions plus the chord shapes which result in specific keys? If not, can anyone tell me what the keys for all the possible capo position & shapes used are? |
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