Traditional vs the tradition

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 02:59 PM

Dave
Number 1 Sharp et al
Number 2 1950s
They're usually referred to in this way.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 02:46 PM

2 folk revivals Steve?

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Old Vermin
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 02:01 PM

Been to Charlwood just once or so - I think it was when the protest was about Gatwick expansion or perhaps PEL. A delightful session, but just too hairy a drive from here.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 01:43 PM

OV - Charlwood it was. A must for me every month.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 01:31 PM

Absolutely, Dick.
There are many traditions and if we recognise that some are recent, some are ancient, and 'all stops in between' then there's much less to debate about. The oral tradition that existed almost everywhere a few centuries ago is now only to be found in a few isolated pockets. The 2 folk revivals set up new traditions and any qualitative comparison between any of these is just down to mere opinion and preference. If Joe Bloggs wants to set up a museum, sorry, folk club, that allows for performance only of the old tradition then he's perfectly entitled to. Likewise if SOE wants to do the same with only more recent songs; and all stops in between.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Old Vermin
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM

Will Fly - that singaround on a Monday wouldn't be at Charlwood would it?

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 01:21 PM

"It must be all of ...oooo...a month since we last had a discussion on the Tradition"
Far too long.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 01:19 PM

And as Dick pointed out, people still persist in talking as if there was just "one tradition".

To quote one song which tends to turn up in traditions of the kind referred to in the opening post, "When will we ever learn".

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 12:40 PM

It must be all of ...oooo...a month since we last had a discussion on the Tradition and what it is and isn't.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 12:35 PM

Discussions of the tradition assume that there's only one. Discussion doomed at the onset.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 12:26 PM

talking about the tradition is almost becoming a tradition,its almost as Traditional as me mentioning the EFDSS,which as its now a tradition I feel duty bound to do every 3 months or so,
its rather like the tradition of Leadfingers trying to claim a 100 posts.

Subject: RE: Traditional vs the tradition
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 12:20 PM

I go to a monthly singaround in Surrey, where many of the singers and performers tend to bring material to perform which, in some way, reflects either the season or some particular occasion. The last one was on the Monday after Remembrance Sunday, and several of the songs were about the military or war/peace. One of the ladies present had brought her trumpet and we had a song or two - unaccompanied but for her trumpet - and then she played the "Last Post". Very moving and very appropriate.

Subject: Traditional v the tradition
From: Old Vermin
Date: 15 Nov 09 - 12:13 PM

Had cause to be thoughtful about this distinction last Sunday. The evening was that of Remembrance Sunday. I was at a folk club in Sussex.

The floor singers before the guest mostly sang songs traditional for that evening in that club, and were followed by a well-respected couple   - at least one a Mudcatter - who announced that, not having anything prepared on that theme they would sing an English traditional [possibly emphasised] song or two, and gave details of collector and singer collected.

The earlier floor singers included :

The Ladies Go Dancing at Whitsun
Home, Lads Home
One of Eric Bogle's - probably Matilda.

Likewise the previous Friday, across the border in Surrey we sang another of Eric Bogle's - probably No Man's Land, then Hanging on the Old Barbed Wire.

These songs are sung at that time of year in these clubs. As far as I know all except perhaps the last have known writers, so not, on one definition folk-songs. Only a label, after all. Traditional, indeed ritual, though.

From that, I started thinking about songs and tunes that are traditional in the sense of people learning them by ear and being sung or played at the same regular occasion but are recent enough to have known makers.

The obvious examples were carols and birthday songs. And the local pub session always used to close with American Pie and after that the Halling Polka on fiddle. this latter is more-or-less Filarfolket's 'Hallingpolska' which makes an excellent ear-worm.

Other examples?

Other's thoughts on what's traditional and what's tradition?