BS: Is the Mudcat American?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:08 PM

The ants are my friends?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:05 PM

I still haven't had time to read this thread.. but I can guess how it's going...

If America has a history of experience corralling problematic folks into reservations,
to be left to their own devices, looking after their own affairs
with minimal outside interference..

Why isn't it as obviously easy to apply the same approach to the one permitted
British politics thread..

You set it up for us,
you kindly provided our own Brit reservation mod to keep us in order..

So what's so difficult about US mods [and random disruptive antagonistic taunters] staying out of it,
and ignoring it's existence,
if the contents are so annoying for you to read...???

Let's all keep our lives as stress free as possible...

I suggest that calmly, in a very friendly spirit of Anglo-American Cordiality...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:02 PM

The sun has retuned and returned with posts like Bill's.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:55 PM

""Why not just not read a thread you don't want to read?"
Life's not like that
Some of us start these threads and are interested in what they cover - along comes a troll so we walk away from it ?"

It seems some people are just not 'wired' to walk away... hence my comment about the cartoon saying " "But I can't go to bed yet... there's something wrong on the Internet!") "

As long as Backwoodsman's suggestion about ignoring is..umm... ignored, the problem is literally unsolveable except by closing the site OR banning everyone who disagrees with anyone else. Nice set of options, hmm?

I used to debate religion vs. science with you-know-who. No one won. I debated guns... same result. I debated astrology... same result. Politics is the same. Everyone with an opinion wishes to defend their opinion and at some point, someone moves to an opinion about the character or intelligence of their opponent- and off we go.

I have **ignored** the astrology, religion and gun debates for several years now, and my typing finger(s) appreciate the break! And USA politics is beyond a minefield now... in many ways, so is UK politics.

? "The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.."?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:47 PM

"a stupid or eccentric person."
No - it's a mixed metaphor (idiots dont come in kettles) made lightheartedly and not to you - it never realised that the term had a definition
As I consider those living in Northern Ireland Irish anyway I would not dream of insulting the Irish people generally - sectarian bigots maybe
Do not make something from nothing as an act of revenge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:37 PM

I did not realize how prevalent selective amnesia is on the mudcat BS section, especially on threads political. Anyone not of a leftward persuasion can be called any number things but should the compliment be returned it those it is aimed that thave a group hug and hissy fit and label it insulting, trolling racism and any other epithet they can dream up. Simultaneously they claim to be entirely innocent of even a teensy wheenzy bit of provocation. They do it so frequently they have lost the ability to understand they are doing it. For example on this thread:
Northerners are a different kettle of dingbats altogether over here
dingbat - a stupid or eccentric person., delusions or feelings of unease, particularly those induced by delirium tremens.,
North in this case can only mean the entire province of Northern Ireland.
Such gratuitous insults towards the entire population can only inflame what is an extremely tenuous peace.process. Why such needless behavior, there was absolutely no justification for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:33 PM

The fact that the "fight club" is 5 or o British males

If so, it is surely easy to avoid. I think you will find though that some American women get involved :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM

"Why not just not read a thread you don't want to read?"
Life's not like that
Some of us start these threads and are interested in what they cover - along comes a troll so we walk away from it ?
"Now the biting makes sense" as my favourite chew is fond of saying

I really don't know how to get around the fact that some of the mods regard us as inferiors and "children"
I've always been under the impression that the collective knowledge on this site could fill libraries - I've certainly Taken a fair amount of new knowledge from it - maybe I'm just starry eyed
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:29 PM

You want a trip? Go up to Quick Links, select Messages by Date, and have a look at how the place was say, ten years ago. Compare it to today's posts.

It's not about nationality, it's about what people choose to do while they're here. The fact that the "fight club" is 5 or o British males probably is just an accident. Who happened to roll in here.

And who rolled out.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:24 PM

Another quaint old phrase "America's melting pot society".

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:20 PM

Jeri, In other words, DtG, do you know about the Ugly American?

I dont, Jeri. I grew up with the attitude that Nignogs rape white women and Pakis eat cat food. I have had enough of stereotyping to last many lifetimes and when I see it, I will call it out. I found your remark disparaging people from the UK distasteful but maybe that is just me.

Sadly, SRS's comment that this thread will probably vanish seems likely to happen unless you all stop knocking Mudcat modetation. Ok, Jeri may be a mod but her remark was not made as a mod. Just an everyday Mudcatter. Please stop bashing moderation policy and stick to the topic.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:18 PM

I've not read any of this yet..
too busy with the stress of caring for my old mum remotely by telephone...

But late last night I was relaxing watching old pre WW2 newsreels
about what were then amazing modern technological achievements
of cross Atlantic aircraft connections..

The quaint old phrase

"Anglo-American Cordiality", and faded grainy black and white filmed formal handshakes

made me smile...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:08 PM

Why not just not read a thread you don't want to read?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:56 PM

When faced with the dilemma of allowing people to democratically speak
the framers of the US Constitution made split-a bi cameral house and a President to be a 'decider and chief'.

With no powers assigned, song theads are the house, the more limited BS section is the senate and mods are the president. There are protections, centures and impeachments etc.
Whoever is the supream judge, more power to them.

This comparison is weak and accidental but decidedly American.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:48 PM

"None are so blind as they who will not see."
I have attempted to explain why I have reservations about this approach
I would much rather be talked out of it rather than having the same thing repeated over and over again
What you are suggesting is to leave them in peace to do what they do unmolested
Far from driving them away, they are now being supported by the moderators by being made the victims of our political prejudice - a step further back than when we started
A situatin invented by my favourite AMERICAN AUTHOR
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM

Is the Mudcat territorial?
Was the Mudcat territorial from its beginning?
If the Mudcat is/was other than territorial at some point,
how was it different then
from the way it is now?

If the Mudcat is territorial now,
is it territorial in its entirety,
or are some aspects of the Mudcat other than territorial,
and some aspects more territorial than not?

Just my opinion:
When I see forum members telling you-know-who
how to do their jobs, warning bells go off.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:32 PM

" the way to deal with someone whose purpose here is to provoke, insult, and foment flame-wars, is to ignore them. "

Right..

"it’s sweet f**k all to do with differences of opinion, "

sadly, not right. That in itself IS an opinion. You disagree with my opinion about opinions.

Please tell us how to resolve this.... oh, wait... you just did... ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM

Well, as I keep trying to tell Steve, Jim, pfr, etc., the way to deal with someone whose purpose here is to provoke, insult, and foment flame-wars, is to ignore them. By so doing, their purpose is frustrated (they lose, you win) and they are left with a choice - debate and discuss in a civilised manner, or their provocative, insulting, flame-baiting behaviour highlights itself (again, they lose, you win).

None are so blind as they who will not see.

BillD, SRS, Jeri - it’s sweet f**k all to do with differences of opinion, and everything to do with provocation, insults, and flaming. Get your heads around that. Nigel Parsons and Bonzo Three Legs are diametrically opposed to Steve, Jim etc. politically, but no-one asks for their removal because Nigel, despite his childish nit-picking, is always polite and courteous, and Bonzo posts his nonsense with a smile on its face.

Once again - None are so blind as they who will not see.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:07 PM

(I once had a cartoon where a guy was sitting at the computer with his wife looking at him with a worried expression. He is saying, "But I can't go to bed yet... there's something wrong on the Internet!")

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:56 AM

I see there has been 'splitting of hairs' while I typed.

Whether or not there has been "clamoring for removal" or just "control" of certain posts & poster(s).. it all amounts to differences of opinion. And who can figure out how to settle that kind of debate?
It is opinion...opinion about opinion and opinion about opinion³.

Now it is "herding cats"³

Sheesh...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM

A few years ago, there were a number of Brits who came to the FSGW Getaway as part of a singing group. Several of them came on their own, and were wonderful additions to both the music and the camaraderie.

One of my very good friends is an expat who is now an American citizen... but has many stories about his younger days in England.

On the whole, my own life and understanding of both music and my own **extensive** English heritage has been enhanced by the long list of Brits, Scots and Irish who have been a part of this site for over 20 years.
It IS the case that cultural differences often show up in the flavor & intensity of political .... ummm... 'discussions' and language. I even see it in various British comedy TV shows we get... and I often have to resort to closed-caption to get some of the language and references.

In Max's attempt to have a site that is as open and 'free' as possible, there are inevitable conflicts and disputes about 'where to draw the line' when remarks and attitudes get personal and/or excessively heated.

   I know personally... as in RT meetings and long chats, Dick Greenhaus, Susan of DT, Max, all of the mods but SRS.. and still have developed a close contact with even her. They ALL good people and are trying... but the old line about "herding cats" applies in spades.. and "herding Mudcats" is perhaps even more fraught with awkwardness.

   There is **NO** way to do any sort of moderation without debates about the difference between 'reasonable moderation' and 'overdone censorship'. It seems to be "Now MY ox is being gored!"

An "American site?" only in some sort of legal sense. This is the rarest sort of sites... world-wide in scope,privately run, long lasting, **mostly** uncensored... and with millions of posts over 20+ years still available.

I am 81 next month. If this damned virus leaves me alone, I expect to be following Mudcat for a few more years....

I sure hope nothing...internal or external... occurs to interfere with it.

Ya' all take care....

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:34 AM

"Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions, "
I'm sorry Stilly but this a lie now too often repeated, that simply isn't true and unfortunately, has been invented by a moderator and now taken up by all of them
nobody has ever asked any to be removed for their beliefs but because of their persistent insulting
It happens that that one person happens to be of the right persuasion is immaterial - he behaves as he does that's what he chooses to do
I have little doubt that this thread will disappear, but in case it does I will circulate it to those who have posted to it in the hope that it can be nipped in the bud once and for all

We have been told by a moderator that we are forbidden to discuss moderation policy because you have no way of defending yourself - you have and use the power to close threads and some of you have taken to insulting and talking down to members (those to whom you are supposed to ve working for) as badly as the troll
You have fiefroofed yourselves from criticism in the way no other forum organiser has (in my experience)

I have little doubt that this thread will disappear, but in case this message does, I will circulate it to those who have posted to it in the hope that it can be nipped in the bud once and for all
Sadly
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:31 AM

What he said ^^^^

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:27 AM

No, Bill, not what she said:

"Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions..."

Not one person here wants anyone removed because of their political opinions. That's a Joe saying, and it simply isn't true. We want trolls removed (or to stop being trolls) because they are gratuitously offensive, utterly intolerant and needlessly provocative. I doubt whether you, Bill, Joe, Jeri, Joe, Donuel or a dozen others share my political opinions. But you haven't heard me calling for them to be removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:08 AM

What she said... ☝

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:04 AM

The BS section just got a dose of Immodium.
Stay safe and feel better soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:45 AM

This has all the earmarks of a thread that will disappear one of these days. #JustSoYouKnow

There is the "above the line" music area that is expansive and global and where political fighting is culled from threads; threads can discuss political music but inserting unrelated political opinion and fighting is not acceptable.

Below the line is where much of the trouble happens. Below the line posts started years ago when too much nonsense was happening in the site in general and it became possible to filter out the BS from the Music topics. All of this is the design of the private American owner of Mudcat who likes to let people talk, but shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is not part of that. And the pete and repeat fights that occur again and again, those get on the last nerve of the unpaid moderators who work on the site, the moderators find those unacceptable.

Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions, why not pretend they're your national leaders and just ignore the nonsense and get on with life, like you do now in the real world? Just skip past the posts you know you'll disagree with and carry on.

So yes, Mudcat is American. British politics are pretty inscrutable from this side of the pond and the repeated squabbling about stuff that is meaningless to most of the moderators is not received well.

Share your love of music, keep looking for those obscure lyrics and tunes, and share recipes and pet stories. We'd all do well with a moratorium of the UK politics for a while. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:32 AM

I think the mods are the sole arbiters here. If Mr Shaw has a problem with that (and he most demonstrably has) perhaps he should leave and find a forum more willing to bend to his will The mods are intelligent people, they make their own decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:19 AM

There used to people here from all over, and I loved it... They mostly aren't here now.

Jeri, there used to be people of color here too. Ever wonder why THEY'RE gone?

Ever consider that the people whose loss you bemoan left because of institutional failure to control trolls of the Iains variety?

You're at it again [Jeri]. No-one at the moment except for Iains comes here for a fight. Although in the last couple of days it does seem that you do.

Amen, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:03 AM

Easy fallback that, Donuel, but it's an accusation best avoided. It's three in the afternoon here now, I'm stone-cold sober and have just come in from my permitted bike ride and I challenge you to detect differences between my mid-afternoon posts and late evening ones. If I'm going to have a drink, it's never before 7 PM. You will note I'm sure that it's an accusation that Iains makes. Don't descend to that level. Over to you...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:01 AM

Back woodsman, when you say you are a "northerner" but if you said "this country" then there's the dichotomy. How would anyone know where you are talking about?
To square the circle we have to assume that when someone says they are "northerners" or from the "North" they mean "of England" but when they say"this country" they mean Great Britain"..... !
Walter Scott sometimes signed himself NB meaning North Britain so he was very clear about his Union credentials.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:49 AM

I have called this whole locale bigotry thing a tempest in a teapot.

In six months the scarcity of food and hyper inflation amid the pandemic will be the rational survival topic.

I am not a prig but some 'Pub' UK posters sound like they start drinking before posting. Aftdffr ashrte time foes vy hsinds endurhjnd dekr oir od coxtro;

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:45 AM

You're at it again. No-one at the moment except for Iains comes here for a fight. Although in the last couple of days it does seem that you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:43 AM

I completely agree with John Mackenzie. Untrammelled "free speech" is a bad thing, and no-one should be frightened of shutting someone up who is being gratuitously obnoxious. I know I keep harping on about it, but The Session (as far as I know) has one moderator who does not suffer fools gladly, he won't let you argue or negotiate with him (don't I know it) and his word is as final as final can be. At one time it was rather like it is here now, but Jeremy didn't half sort it out. Arguably, it's a less feisty place as a result, but it's his gig and I can see precisely why he did what he did in his big clean-up a few years ago. Dick Gaughan's now-defunct forum was a decent place to be. It had a few characters who you could see would have liked to have been obnoxious, but the one moderator, Molly, was a woman you dared not cross (yet she was friendly and cheery and witty too). It's not fair to give Iains the free rein he has here, then keep bollocking the rest of us for not wanting to put up with it. The starting point is that he insults us. So the comparison with pubs falls down straight away. His behaviour wouldn't be tolerated for five minutes even in the seediest pubs I've known (and I've known a few). A firm and silent hand on the delete button for a few weeks, no answering back allowed, would fix him. If we saw that happening it would calm the rest of us down too. And the mods would end up with a lot less work to do. Try it and see. But who am I...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:40 AM

In other words, DtG, do you know about the Ugly American? An American in another country is loud, brash, and thinks he's so much better than other people?
Yeah, that's how I see some of you. Not all, but even the reasonable people are starting to join in with the bullies.

It hasn't always been this way, but just now, it seems you don't come for the friendship, you come here for the fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:38 AM

Everyone knows that the north starts north of the Watford Gap. According to the Guardian this divide dates back to Viking times.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:37 AM

No sparklers used in dispensing our beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:35 AM

There used to people here from all over, and I loved it. Germany, New Zealand, Canada, France, Australia, Denmark, China, Japan, and I'm probably missing some.

They mostly aren't here now.

I've never minded people from one specific country posting here. What I dislike is when a mob of them post as if there were no one else in the world, because it makes others leave. Or at least, they move into the shadows and lurk, and only seem to come out when somebody dies. I miss all those folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:31 AM

Donuel tried to open up an American politics thread and it was hastily closed. What's up with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:26 AM

Them Southerners get out of the bath to 'ave a pee. Soft buggers. They can't stand a bit of froth on their beer either. Soft buggers. They put the letter R in the word castle and the word bath. Soft buggers.

As me ould granny used to say "there's nowt wrong wi' out whats gradely o'er t' sump so longs as there's tripe in pickling'"

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:15 AM

When I talk about ‘the country‘ I mean Great Britain. When I talk about ‘northerners’, I mean the north of England. If I talk about people from further north than England, I refer to them as ‘Scots’, ‘Scottish’, or Scotsmen/women’.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Barb'ry
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM

Sorry, I should have said northern England, although my Scottish and Irish relatives are more than capable of fearsome arguments!
As far as the pub arguments are concerned, maybe I'm wrong in that or maybe I just went to the wrong pubs in my youth!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:07 AM

"North of England."
Unfortunately, to some southerners that starts at Mill Mill and for Parliamentarians, Regent's Park (coz that's where the posh houses run out)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:52 AM

But are N(n))ortherners from North Britain or Northern England? Folk who call them self "northerners" are English or British? It's getting difficult to know if people are talking about England or Britain. The media uses the term "the country" when it means England and also sometimes means Britain. I wish "northerners" would be explicit and tell us they mean from the North of England.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:15 AM

"I agree with the point about bad behaviour and pubs "
Not sure the comparison is valid
In argument in a pub never, in my experience, leads to the pub being emptied, guvnors are far more sensible than that as they realise it only takes getting rid of the main cause of the trouble
Mind you, if anybody accused "Northerners", "southerners", "Blacks" North or South of the river" people.... of being the main cases of the problem, the govnor whola have to order new furniture every week
"Look well into thyself", as Marcus Aureleas was once heard to remark

"Things that would be immediately deleted on a UK site, are allowed to run,"
Can't speak of the US, but as far as I can tell, I have never known a site where topic close as regularly as this one - would be interested to know of one
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:10 AM

Me murrican.
Max murrican.
Site global.
UK politics, like murrican ones, global in effect and consequences.
Most posters UK rather than murrican in my experience.
Most posters cares global.
Provincial bozos need not read threads about places they think don't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:03 AM

”Certain people (extremists) then said you can only be a southerner if you lived within a certain distance from the shoreline. Over time and due to many heated exchanges on the net, that distance has gradually got shorter and shorter, so we end up with the situation that people who come from families who have lived in this town for generations are now labelled northerners. That is not easy to take.“

God lord! And to think I thought I live in The Backwoods! Makes my corner of Leafy Lincolnshire sound like the epitome of cosmopolitan living.

Think I’ll change my Mudcat ID from ‘Backwoodsman’ to ‘Cosmo’! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:58 AM

I agree with the point about bad behaviour and pubs but don't follow the northern bit. Sorry. However, there is bad behaviour across the board. The first two people I recall being kicked out were Clinton Hammond and Martin Gibson, both from West of the pond. The next two I remember were Teribus and Akenaton, from East of the pond. To make an issue of some combatants being British seems, to me, wrong somehow. Probably just me. I am willing to be shown the error of my ways:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:45 AM

My posts are exclusively acceptable, amusing or neither. :^/
They are biased coming from my being a Univerity brat.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:26 AM

It is very American in its moderation. Things that would be immediately deleted on a UK site, are allowed to run, sometimes seemingly unchecked, for ages. (Martin Gibson)
The blind adherence to freedom of speech as enshrined in the US constitution, is overdone. What many seem to forget is that freedom of speech does not include the freedom to be gratuitously nasty and insulting. If more of the nasty remarks were removed ASAP, it would alter the tone of many discussions on here, for the better.
Yes it's American in origin, and outlook. That in itself isn't a bad thing per se, but there is a lack of understanding on both sides as to what is acceptable, or amusing, or neither.