Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:09 AM

Liz i am a litle tired but who was french and a strange design? the person wanting to play the pipes or the pipes?

please share more of your bagpipe experience on another thread - I may want to borrow them - are they ever so LOUD !!!
Roger

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:53 AM

Yeah. There are ways to say "no" politely, and I do. A guy wanted to play one of my harmonicas yesterday at a little festival up by Bracebridge, Ontario (the Lose Yer Shoes Folk & Blues Festival). He'd had a few drinks, obviously. I smiled and said, "Well, y' know, I don't lend out my harmonicas...it's sort of like kissing the person." "So?" chimes in his girlfriend, "He's kind of cute..." I look him over. "Well, yeah, only he's just not my type, that's all..." We all laughed, and I went on my way.

I frequently do allow others to play my guitar, using intuition as my guide. I can recall only 2 cases where some slight damage resulted to the instrument...out of maybe a couple of hundred.

I know one asshole whose idea of life is that everything should have a few marks, gouges, or chips out of it to give it "character". If he sees you wearing a new pair of shoes, he'll try and scuff them with his heel so they look broken in. His guitar shows numerous signs of abuse, including a large signature on its face with a black felt pen by someone like Garth Brooks, or whomever, I don't remember. This guy I do not lend anything to. I avoid him if I can.

I do not lend guitars out of my sight to anyone...except Don Bray...he is a world class guitar player, songwriter extraordinaire, and a prince of a man. I have never seen anyone with more respect for a fine instrument. I have a 1981 Martin Grand Orchestra which Don likes to borrow when he records, and I will lend it to him at any time. Don has a CD (a very good one) if anyone is interested.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Giac
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:26 AM

I'll let competent players play my guitar for a tune or two, and I'll let almost (note the qualifier) any child hold it and twang the strings -- any child under 11 or so. Most really small children are more respectful of instruments than are adults. If a child is too small to hold up the instrument (2-4 yrs old), then I hold it for them, make chords and let them strum. It always gives me a little thrill to see tiny fingers tremble as they touch the strings, and their little faces light up when they can actually produce a sound.

As for tuning it - well, if a good player thinks it's out of tune, then let 'em go for it. If it's still out, then it's their problem. When I get it back, I'll just retune, no harm, no foul.

Need to add, though, that I just play on the porch with friends, for my own amazement at home, and to amuse kids. If I were professional, I might have other feelings.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: BK
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 09:16 AM

I think it's the sober, emotionally stable factor which cuts down the reasonble person list, even among folkies. And I think it's sometimes attitude, not accident, that harms the instrument. I recently lent my prized 1957 D-28 to someone who DIDN'T ask to borrow it. I know she's extremely trustworthy & I offerred it, & she treated it w/the care & consideration I knew she would, but I'd be unwilling to loan it to just anyone.

A problem is that some of the guys who, often very agressivly, insist on borrowing (always GUYS, dammit!) think that cuz (in their opinion) they are way better than most, ('n better than the owner of the instrument) they should somehow have a RIGHT to use your instrument. One such person not only scratched my guitar, but put a cigarrette burn on the headstock, & shrugged it off as "another great memory" FOR WHO??

I once had to replace a transmission on my old but well-loved jeep - then 20+ yrs old. The pushy guy who borrowed it insisted he could drive a stick shift (sorta a MAN thing) & ground the gears.

Bottom line - I lend very rarely, usually for just a song or two & in my presence, but VERY selectively, & I'd reccomend either don't lend at all, or do likewise.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM

I'm afraid I fall into the group that loans out instruments when asked. I like to hear my guitar well played and It isn't something that happens when I play it. My guitar would be difficult to replace but it isn't any great or wonderful instrument and could be replaced once the money surfaced.

There is a corollary to this question though. Once you loan your stringed instrument should the borrower feel free to retune it? Many people seem to think it's OK but not all of them have a better ear than my electronic tuner. Sometimes they make things much worse.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:48 AM

When I go to a festival jam, or a party, I take an instrument that I could walk into any decent music store and replace at any time. Even so, I try to be careful whom I lend it to.

I have other instruments that nobody touches except me or people whom I know to be better players than I am (which is a very large group) and sober, not on any drug, and emotionally reasonably stable (which cuts the size of the group down considerably).

Peter.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:46 AM

Funny how no one ever asks to borrow my recorder.... mind you, I've had to borrow one before now.

No one ever asked to borrow the bagpipes either, several have asked if they can play them, to which, as they were French and a strange design, was nearly always No, they couldn't!

LTS

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Callie
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:24 AM

If I'm in the same room, I don't usually mind folks using my guitar - I get to hear it played decently! I prefer not to lend if I know the person can't hold their drink. I never loan my saxophone or clarinet. Even feel funny about family members playing them.

Callie

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:39 AM

As I've stated before, I have a Martin 00018 and a Maton 325, both bear the scars of "loaning" but I think it's worth it when I think of some of the beautiful music that people have made on them. After all that's what instruments are for, to make music.

Any of the dings and scratches I have on my instruments, in no way impare their sound or structure. They are just scars that are incurres, as those I have on my body, with living an interesting and active life.

cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:11 AM

Last week I was introduced to someone who wants to learn to play the flute. This was at a Tin Whistle class and no one else plays the flute there. This guy was full of himself - going to buy the best flute - seven year waiting list - going to be the best. Tomorrow he wants me to take along my best flute for him to look at. Now normally I will do anything for anyone - but this instrument cost me dearly and I am afraid I would only trust it with someone who knew how much it meant to me. alarm bells rang for me when he asked me how to play a flute - he has never tried, has no idea how to go about it even though everyone expained several times.
So in answer to the question I think it is a matter of which instrument - Never your best favourite friend of an instrument. Sometimes to people you trust lend out any instrument which you can stand to lose.
Roger - anyone want to have A Bodhran on permanent loan?

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Auxiris
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 04:44 AM

The worst are people who just borrow and/or pick up your instruments without asking then act insulted when you tell them they're NOT welcome to play them!

cheers,

Aux

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Les B
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:38 AM

I guess my worst mistake has been to know that someone is a good picker, but to badly misjudge how much they've had to drink. It's embarrassing to try and extricate an instrument from a drunk's clutches without fisticuffs.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: GUEST,Owlkat
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:31 AM

Hi,
To quote Patrick Swayze in "Roadhouse", "be nice", and if you don't want to, then just calmly say "no". That's all you need to do. It's not a reflection on the personality of the asking party. No apologies are neccesary,(unless you're Canadian, in which case it's a cultural thing).
I've got a '65 Martin 000-18, and I won't lend it. Period. I've also got a plywood Yamaha, and anyone would be welcome to use it. No worries.
Jams can be kind of crazy, so listen to your intuition. Instruments can get dropped, scratched and messed with accidentally, and with no malice aforethought.
I've borrowed guitars myself on occasion, for hootenannnies, jams, and recording, and if it's okay, then that's fine, and if not, that's the way it is. Cheers
Owl.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:04 AM

I do understand the situation, but strangely enough, I have never had a problem. I will lend anything to the Right person; even sent my harp on an overnight to a woman I had just met. Harp came home just fine.....it's a conundrum, all right. How about "Bugger Off, A......" naw, probably not.

Subject: RE: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:57 AM

"You've got to understand this is my most prized possession. I just don't lend it out. Nothing personal - I just don't lend it. Hope you understand."

Not a perfect way, but I've used it and the other person at least said they understood and it was no problem.

Subject: Borrowed instruments - just say NO ?
From: Les B
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:47 AM

We may have had a thread on this some time back, but it may be worth repeating. I bring this up as a result of reading the thread on "Women's Issues in Folk Music" and from seeing a gouged Gibson mandolin last week end at my favorite three-day fiddler's picnic.

The "Women's" thread talked about guys always wanting to borrow women's guitars at jams. The owner of the mandolin I saw said he was at a jam and this guy kept wanting to play it, saying "I play mandolin, I won't hurt it" - famous last words !!! When my friend got his mando back it had a real good one inch scratch right down the front.

My question is: How do you nicely say no to these well-intentioned idiots ? And, if you cave in and they hand it back with damage, what is your recourse ? (Other than immediate violence) - I've had a couple of guitars scratched over the years and I always kick myself and say never again, and then of course relent. Any ideas on this ??