BS: Creation v Evolution Part II

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Biskit
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 01:09 AM

Well Said L.EJ.-Biskit-

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 12:46 AM

The writers of the Bible were people of imagination.They were not "logical thinkers". Was it their literal intention to suggest that Eve was fashioned from Adam's Rib? That all things that exist were crafted by the creator in seven 24 hour days?Remember,He didn't create the Sun until the Fourth Day. Somehow,I think the intention was to create an understanding through the painting of a picture,a parable if you will,like the ones Christ gave to his followers.The tale of the Prodigal Son did not have to be historically accurate to be of immense value: it showed his followers that no sinner was beyond redemption.When God created the "great whales and every living creature that moveth", does that broad statement not include the potential of triceratops and allosaurs? Or are the fossilized bones they left actually "the Remains of Angels" as some 18th Century scientific Christians proclaimed.

I believe that these writers of this great book were people of imagination and creative power,very unlike the Christians of today who insist on the Bible's literal interpretation,people who cannot reconcile scientific facts to the rigid dogma of their belief,and by denying these facts,jeopardize the cedibility of the very faith they seek to glorify.My God is infinite in his power and wisdom,and willing to devote decades of evolution to the task of perfecting his creation: Man. We simply need to use the greatest of His gifts to us,our imagination, to gain the understanding that evolution IS creation in process.

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Mbo
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:59 PM

You know what the scientific nomenclature for Mockingbird is? Mimus polyglottus! All your kids brought up with Fred Rogers should know that one! Everybody sing! Troglodytese aeidon...you're my pet, you're my pet, you're my veeeeery special pet, trooooglodytese aeidooon!!

--Matty R

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Amos
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:52 PM

Mockingbirds are mimics, not polyglots.

Anyway, it is debatable whether all "animals" are of like ability or awareness. I've known horses smarter than some people. Or so it seemed. Within any class of anmals it has always seemed to me to be true, much as it is with humans, that the individual brings his own show to the body and some have a lot to say for themselves and others not.

And, like humans, the livelier ones leave a clear, tangible vacuum when they drop the body.

The issue of creativeness (as distinguished from creationaism) goes into much broader corners than this animals-are-people-too topic.

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: raredance
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:37 PM

Mockingbirds

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 10:43 PM

(And I'm not even unilingual. Should say "multilingual")

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Mbo
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 09:04 PM

Just found and read "Prayer For My Daughter". Made me cry (not uncommon these days!). We should all be so lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 09:00 PM

And the smell, too, Spaw. (Asparagus, eeewww...)

Amos, dogs are mulilingual.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Amos
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 08:39 PM

We may not be more than "other" animals, but it doesn't take many brains to observe (1) that we eat a lot more of them than they of us and (2) we seem to have figured out how to corral them, and not the reverse and (3) the closest they come to the Sistine Chapel or "Prayer for My Duaghter" or "Tiger Tiger" or a Stradivarius is a conical pile of mud and straw or the remarkable but crude weave of the oriole's nest. And I have to wonder how many of them are multilingual?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Biskit
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 08:21 PM

domenico,you seem to be the only one working up a froth and trying to get everyone to think the way you think, I'm alright with how you think,for you. Tell me, when you smash your finger do you scream ,non exsistant entity damnit! That was awful but I'm gonna leave it there anyway When we look at the world we see different things,your ideas are no better than mine and mine are no better than yours.So relax and enjoy life while you can, after all this may be all there is,or not. peace"through understanding"-Biskit-

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: hesperis
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 07:21 PM

Is mankind truly "more" than animal kind? Sure, we have a capacity for greatest good, because of our abilities in thinking, building, and adapting, but so many of us do not live up to that promise...

If the animals were in charge of the earth, I think we would not be facing (running away from, whatever) our environment and sociological crises.

Many indigenous cultures see animals as the teachers of humanity. They are nearer to nature and therefore more innocent than we are.

Of course, animals start acting wierd after experiencing famine, so maybe humans are just still feeling the results of the scarcity during the Ice Age... rather than truly 'doing evil' or 'sinning'. Acting out of scarcity is a sin, acting for ourselves alone, when our capacity for love has been blocked, is a sin. But are we truly more than animals?

Is the caretaker more than the garden, or do they each need the other for completion?

Can we live in partnership and true stewardship with Nature?

I wish that it could be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:51 PM

Jeri,

I may be wrong but I don't think the microbiology to which you refer points necessarily to evolution. It doesn't result in a new and different species. That's not a small point if true.

I suppose I'm a bit of a pessamist because, though I believe that differing objectively held beliefs can live together in peace, I'm afraid they won't. That's why I think Jesus taught his followers to choose their battles wisely, only fight for what is really essential, and GO DOWN LOVING. I'm not sure that Christians fighting in the publicly held square for creationism is a wise battle to choose. I'd rather hope to lay down my life as a Bonhoffer--a battle worth fighting. Don't get me wrong, I think one's views on creation or lack thereof are important, just not the best way to show the very core of what we believe--love.

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: domenico
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:43 PM

Mousethief, I will agree with you in that we are definitely a breed apart.

I think we could probably agree that the difference is cognitive thought, and I've always stood by the "Malice implies forethought" standard of thinking.

Man's capacity for evil is inspired by his very talent that sets him apart from the other critters (the ages old tale of "man being able to decide good from evil" comes to bear).

I don't think my cat is thinking anything other than "Wow! Look at what happens to the rat when I swat 'em this way..."

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:38 PM

No Alex, actually I was just thinking about some dates I had been on in the past.

LN

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:35 PM

Actually, LN, if you are thinking about people who commit acts of cruelty and shame, then none of the lower animals are really capable of such a thing. Most if not all of their actions are determined by survival and reproduction (and to a lesser extent such things as play), and they lack whatever it is that humans have that enables us to be either angels... or devils.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM

Jon: I wasn't really going to go into HOW we are different from the so-called "lower" animals. That's a whole 'nother can of worms that could get us into all sorts of shouting about my spirituality is better than your spirituality and all that, which I was actually trying to avoid. But I do stand by my statement that there is a qualitative and not just a quantitative difference between humankind and the other species on the planet.

spaw: Um, thanks, I think. :-P

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:31 PM

Well Mousethief, I know some men who are truly animals.

LN

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: domenico
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:28 PM

Sorry I was a bit slow on the thread swap. I think I summed up all responses to me right here.

Ugh....

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:28 PM

What about spirits, MouseThief? I don't know how one could ever prove it one way or other but I certainly believe there is far more to us than just the body.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM

Just wanted to reassure you that I too read your posts MT. Generally I either have no idea what you're talking about or I'm bored stiff, but I DO read them nonetheless.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:25 PM

Domenico says "to think of man as anything but an animal is naive."

Actually when you compare man to the other animals, to think we're just like them is a little naive. None of the other animals are sitting around their computers writing about whether their species is just another species.

Some wag once said, "I'll worry more about animal rights then the flesh-eating animals put together a committee to talk about the rights of their human victims." Although I do not condone unnecessary animal suffering, I think there is a qualitative difference between humans and the so-called "lower" animals and can't imagine how some cannot see this!

Truly man is an animal (what else? vegetable? mineral?). But obviously so much more.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:07 PM

Thanks, Lil Neo, for the kind words.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: Creation v Evolution Part II
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 06:03 PM

The old thread is full - please use this one.

Alex
O..O
=o=