Vanishing Occupations.Street entertainers

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: hesperis
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:59 PM

I heard that Orillia's Downtown Management Board forbids busking without an audition. I know a guy who used to go to my high school, who regularly sat down near a parking lot downtown, and he never had any problems. He always asked the businesses for permission to play, and it was always granted. He has since graduated with a Music Degree from York, and is making waves on the jazz scene.

I really don't see why beaurocrats have a problem with busking (some of them, anyway,) - as a consumer, I like to hear people playing when I'm walking down the street. It is a pleasant summer experience. Kids who are learning often have a more appreciative audience than more seasoned performers, too, and it's a good way for them to get spending money, or money to go to camps and stuff.

But this is the same town where city council strangled ice cream trucks and hot dog vendors by making the taxes prohibitively high, all so that a relative of the (then) Mayor could have a monopoly on the food at our biggest local park.

Banning busking isn't about the music, or about the "quality" of the music, it's about control.

If things are too controlled, where's the life in it?

Where are the opportunities for young people to learn to have fun performing in public?

Anyway, since I just put a down payment on a flute, I'll probably need to take my panflute downtown to get enough money for the flute... we will see what happens a couple of weeks from now, when I have some stuff to play.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Jeep man
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:42 PM

Rick, I remember the blind guitar players and singers who used to be prominent where I grew up near Asheville, N.C

This was during and shortly after the depression and many people such as the blind had no way to support themselves. The played and sang on the streets and some sold pencils or apples.

David Holt told me that Doc Watson did this when he was young. I often wonder if Doc was one of the pickers I saw on Patton Ave. or Lexington Ave. in Asheville?

People call them the "Good Old Days", and they did have some things I would like to preserve. Blind men playing on streets is not one of them.

Later, Jeep

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 08:48 PM

Take back the streets
Larry
PS I do pay taxes...

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 08:42 PM

People hate buskers because they wreck the picture of a tidy sidewalk along which people are moving on prosperous streets. It is their messiness they dislike. They want a neat world, and the busker is an easy target. In our province, the supposedly free-market government was outraged at kids at corners washing car windows. There is nothing they hate more than real markets. The kind of people who speak nicely of their black waiter in the country club dining room.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 08:41 PM

It's usually assumed that the first troubadours took to the road in the 12th century, but it was actually a couple hundred years before that. I can see very little difference between minstrels and troubadours and modern day buskers. If the wandering minstrel couldn't wangle an invitation to the local castle or manor house, he could always pick up a few coppers and perhaps a meal by singing in the village square. It seems to me that the antiquity of the trade should be taken into account when making laws about street musicians. There ought to be a law protecting wandering minstrels from people who make laws.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Marion
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 07:08 PM

BobP, I've heard that Tracy Chapman used to busk.

Russ, it isn't entirely true that "They ought to realize that a person playing on the street is there to play, not earn a living..."; at the moment I'm busking for a living, though I'm looking for a real job and will busk less if I find one. And I doubt I'm the only one. I'm a really mediocre fiddler, but I make at least minimum wage busking; there are some much better acts that I've seen around, and surely they could be making a pretty good salary.

In Ottawa, we don't need permits to busk (although someone told me that they're needed for one pedestrian street - I'm still trying to find that out). It seems to me that I've heard that in recent years Toronto has cracked down on panhandlers and squeegee kids too, right? This must be part of the same trend.

Is it only in the subway stations that permits are required? And is the objection to unregulated busking a question of noise pollution or of illegal business? That is, could you get into trouble playing an non-amplified instrument in public if you didn't have your case out for tips? Or, would you get into trouble if you were soliciting tips but not making noise (mime or sidewalk artist)?

Marion

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 05:36 PM

Jeesus H.! Sorry for the spelling glitch in "occupation".

Ripk

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 05:33 PM

"Soots'nties" Ha, Ha! Yah folks when I'm on a rant can I ever invent words.....and Boy, I'll bet the bigwigs are runnin' for cover now!

Hi guest Russ. Oh yes... I'm old enough to remember the political skirmishes of the 60s and 70s, but I'm afraid there are many far more qualified than me to actually take a stand on a "busking issue". I tend to have VERY LITTLE PATIENCE when it comes to dealing with authority figures, and the person who might actually get something done, is one who can talk to the city Fathers in their own language. Some folks embrace "the system". Some fight it all their lives, and others (like me, I guess) try to create their "own" system (which welcomes anyone in who can enjoy it) and do their damndest to be as independant as possible without starving. I compromise...but grudgingly, ha ha!

Thanks for the feedback folks. Any info on "pearly Kings"?

Rick

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 03:47 PM

Entertainments of all sorts get outlawed from time to time-from the time of the Revolution to about 1830, theater was illegal in Philadelphia, the result being that, beginning at the city limits on old Broad Street, there was an avenue of bear-baiters, and hoop twirlers, jugglers, and every other sort of street performer(the old Quakers didn't care for entertainments)--when theaters were finally allowed, the street performers lost their audiences and the trade died out(probably were many who moved inside to the stage)--

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: BobP
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 02:38 PM

Every oppressive law ever passed had at its base someone's notion of "for your own good" attached to it.

People have actually starved and froze to death in tiny hovels after being prevented from working self-employed at jobs they supposed they could do from their own kitchen tables and sewing machines because a bureaucrat supposed they were helping by shutting them down "for their own good".

One thing for sure; it's for somebodies own good.

It happens every day in every city in every land.

You can call it what you want, I call it facism.

It just gets noticed a bit when it happens in the street.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: BobP
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 02:27 PM

We should campaign for an international holiday, wherein every closet Dylan on the planet takes his axe down to the corner of whatever constitutes Broadway and Main in their respective home towns, to create the world's biggest song circle.

Money collected could, after making sure each performer got enough to eat, be delivered into a fund that would allow an expansion of that class action to include anyone who ever sought to suppress non-electrified musical expression.

Punitive awards collected from that could form a fund to lobby for legislation to withold federal funding from U.S. cities and federal aid to foreign cities that demonstrated an unwillingness to protect people and their officially recognized art form.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:46 PM

Rick, you're setting yourself up for a loss by distinguishing between "soot'n'ties" and everybody else. In the U. S., each of us has one vote, whether we wear jeans or a suit (well, actually, because of the way the Electoral College is set up, those of us in Vermont or Wyoming effectively have more voting power apiece, in the Presidential election, than people in the big states, but I'm not complaining).

The "soot'n'ties" have the power because the average person votes for the person he sees on television the most. TV time costs money. So the guy with the most money wins.

But it's by the people's choice that it works that way.

If you want to change it, start demanding that each candidate state his position on the issues, without equivocating. Then vote for the one whose positions you approve of the most. Whether he has the most, and most flashy, TV ads or not.

If you can't stand any of them, start your own political party and run for office. (I should have done just that in the last US Presidential election, but there was a Libertarian candidate, thank Gawd.)

Sermon mode off.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:36 PM

Great post. Great rhetoric, Rick.

First a non-rhetorical question. Was there a time when buskers were not required to have licenses? Does the current situation represent deterioration from better days when buskers roamed wild and free on the streets of Toronto? If it is a new or relatively new thing, why did it come to be? Even "soots'nties" sometimes do things for what they feel are good reasons other than a fear of those who are NOT "card-carrying establishment robots".

The reason I ask is that if you know why something happened, there's a better chance of making it unhappen. Another reason I ask is because the only city I have had personal experience with that is even remotely what I would call "busker friendly" is New Orleans. Toronto's discouragement of busking through rules seems kind of normal to me. I guess I am mildly surprised that they allow it at all. Also it is my impression that North American has never been particularly busker friendly, at least in my lifetime.

As a solid, respected, well-known, taxpaying resident of Toronto you'd be the perfect leader/spokesperson for a freedom-to-busk movement. I'm not sure if you are old enough to remember the political turmoil of the 60s and early 70s, but there's an arsenal of tools and methods for effecting social change. Get an aging radical to reminisce. I am sure you have friends who understand in detail how the municipal government works and can give you advice on whom to see, what to say, and what to do.

Power to the People!!!

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:25 PM

saintgeorgestreet.com There, I fixed the blue clicky
Jim
PS I'm interested in the whole street performing topic because right now, because I'm doing it myself at the local Farmers' Market.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Frogmore
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:00 PM

For news on the never-ending street artist fiasco in St. Augustine, go to: www.saintgeorgestreet.com The ACLU is enthusiastically involved and we will have court decisions soon. Again...and again and.... It's hard to believe all the absurdities that have taken place over the years.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: BobP
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:51 PM

I love street performers.

I love the atmosphere at sunset pier, Key West (it has another name, but that's what folks I know call it) as dozens of these people, some good - some getting better, perform next to an inverted hat.

I know someday they'll be banned everywhere.

I also know they're criminally negligent on their taxes.

I also know if I'm on the jury, they can relax.

I applaud the effort, regardless of skill.

David Crosby's tune about passing a street guy while on his way to a $50K gig (Playin Real Good For Free) still gets to me, bigtime.

Didn't we let Jack Benny play his stupid violin in our living rooms?

Could anyone submit via this thread whatever they may know of people now famously talented who once "Did It In-The-Road, without passing an audition, I mean besides McCartney.

I believe that both Ralph McTell and Bryan Bowers (the autoharp guy) would be on that list.

I could be wrong about both, memory isn't what it was.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Stevangelist
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:40 PM

I gained most of my practical playing experience on the streetcorners and sidewalks of various cities. Illegal... my ass. They ought to realize that a person playing on the street is there to play, not earn a living... the case is out because people like to reward in that way... I wouldn't give a crap if they paid me or not. If I cared that I was to be compensated, then why would I brave the heat and cold and rain and snow and all the other BS just to make people smile? Oh, well... chalk it up to corporate a-holes once again... I'm glad I'm a member of the Great Historical Bum Society.

May The Road Rise To Meet You,

Stevangelist

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: RichM
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:31 PM

Today's western societies admire, respect and PAY "manager" more than performers---performers being the human beings who actually do the work: musicians, craftsmen/women and all the other working people.

Managers and executives are rewarded for being manipulative and greedy.

Hats off to all small business people, be they street musicians or otherwise.

Subject: RE: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:25 PM

Yeah, Rick, and I don't think that life in general is much better south of the 49^th parallel. We have the exact opposite problem: most folks look at you like you're a homeless and and panhandler and not a serious businessman and performer. Ah free Americay, yowsa!
Jim

Subject: Vanishing Ocupations.Street entertainers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:10 AM

I know this has been discussed before in threads on "busking", but a combination of anecdotal info, a couple of Mudcat posts, and the experience of several of my friends and one student, has made me extremely ticked off.

It would appear that the "soots'nties' simply can't live with the idea of independant performers (who are good enough) earning their livings without becoming card-carrying establishment robots.

Here in Toronto, street performers must audition (for verrry mainstream musicians) in order to purchase a license allowing them to play in selected subways. Without proper accreditation they're hassled constantly on the street by the cops.

Busker "Festivals" (Corporate sponsored of course) are organized which imply to the public that these wacky jugglers, comics, and fiddlers, just want to be "one big goofy starving entertainment family"...happy to follow the rules set down by the Mayors, Councils and Police Chiefs.

They don't of course. Successful street performers have been independant business people for hundreds of years. They need huge smarts, talent, and serious people skills...and generally they've chosen to MAKE their own rules, rather than falling in line. THAT'S what I think angers the rule makers more than anything else.

Dammit, a skilled old-time music performer is ILLEGAL, and some promoter can make millions on a "street Festival" because the Soots'nties' palms are greased!

Yah, I know most of the time I try to laugh at sheer stupidity and greed, and often find myself saying "it's so bad it's funny", but obviously, not right now.

Vent ended.

"PEARLY KINGS and QUEENS"? Anyone got any info on how long they've been around, what they did in the old days, and are they still allowed to perform on the streets?

Rick

P.S. I know I'm sounding like Larry (INOBU) but sometimes Toronto can piss ya off as much as New York!