BS: Space program - real or faked?

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,smoking man getting angry with Amos
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 11:35 AM

Amos, we thwarted your every attempt to get the Buffalo Bills a Superbowl ring and soon we will undo all your attempts to trick people into believing Robin Williams is funny. We do not fear the Projectorii. We will remain in charge. I just need to know who gave you the script and do you think we can sell it to Speilberg? It couldn't be worse than AI.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 11:25 AM

Let's hear it for blurred lines!! I guess it enables people to stay sane if they can re-channel all their idiocy into a good solid issue from the Gunmmint. That way, it's all out there, soundly blamed on others, and introspection is unnecessary, and a good thing too!! God only knows what one might find in there!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,fretless (at work)
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 11:21 AM

M.Ted, Well, the lines do seem to get blurred. Which is, I suppose, how Oliver Stone stays in business.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 11:00 AM

Fretless, Funny isn't it that people will believe something that is entertainment is true, but that something that is news isn't--

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 10:47 AM

It was all filmed on Pamela Anderson's boobs.
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 10:42 AM

Laugh while you can, you pathetic hologram!! We of the Projectorii have your script in our hands!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,smoking man
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 10:21 AM

This is a funny thread, but, to those who are flabergasted by the stupidity of these folks belief systems- lighten up. Everyone has some belief that is completely absurd, it just doesn't seem so to them. Some scientists/trekkies have looked for the gene that is responsible for stealing, some Athiests think aliens put us here, some think the particular political party they affiliate themselves with means well and isn't at all self serving, Some folks think Heavy Metal is acctually a form of music, some think they are a chosen people, some think there is a Devil, some think there isn't. Only a select few of us in the Illuminatti know the truth and we laugh at all of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,fretless (at work)
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 09:46 AM

Of course the landings were faked -- it was all in the movie Capricorn One (1978), except NASA made "them" change the flight destination from the moon to Mars. The movie, by the way, is part of another sub-plot: royalties to star O.J. Simpson are designed to help fund efforts to find the REAL murderers.

And John, you're SO right about Dear Abby being unfair in her comment about Madalyn Murray O'Hair. EVERYONE knows that MMO'H is living the good life in Argentina with Elvis, Princess Di, and the rest of the gang. .............. "Some people can swim all day in the Sea of Knowledge and still not get wet"

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 09:40 AM

That's a thing that you get when you're old Jersey is worn out. Moth balls can help prevent this. Or store your woolens in a cedar chest.

EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 09:12 AM

English Jon, You FOOL! Explain the existence of New Jersey then. Why would anyone make that up ? I would be inclined to agree with you, were it not for the fact that I've been there. If it is in fact an English hoax , it is a cruel one. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 09:08 AM

There's a great song about this - spoken word musical track really - by the Scottish band, Looper. I'm sure I can't do it justice off the top of my head, but here goes.

It's called 'Dave The Moon Man.' The narrator met Dave The Moon Man at a party, where he was giving short lectures to anyone who would listen, about all this stuff he'd found on the internet - about the Van Allen belt, how if they had made it through it the radiation would have killed them shortly afterwards, and about how the light sources were all wrong - it suggested studio lighting...

'There was a whole lot of this, and a whole lot more besides. I thought he was on a mission, Dave The Moon Man, to convince everyone there had never been a moon trip. But I was very wrong. That wasn't it at all. He was telling everyone these things in the hopes that someone would prove him wrong... he wanted someone to convince him that they really had been to the moon, in that rocket that looked like it was made of tin-foil and cardboard, which nowadays you probably wouldn't even trust to get you down to the shops... Because it was so much harder otherwise, finding the will to get things done, drunk, lying on the lawn... because someone had done that, and nothing was more impossible than that...'

It's a shame the words don't seem to be on the internet anywhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: pavane
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 08:57 AM

They are probably still sore about being taken in by 'War of the Worlds". There are also loads of people who try to use the results of the scientific process to prove that science is wrong - and don't see the fundamental contradiction.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 08:46 AM

"The only thing I didn't do ... was check the facts."

That is a great line.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 08:28 AM

The moon is there all right. It's America that doesn't really exist. Only place in the so called "U.S.A" I've ever been to is called California. One look at a map will show you that California is on the Norfolk Coast, just along by Great Yarmouth. The British Government is spending millions each year producing "American" programmes for television, feature films etc. This is to draw attention away from something else. Don't know exactly what, which shows how effective the technique has been.

Further evidence for all you sceptics - Boston (Lincolnshire), Cambridge (Cambridgeshire), Milwaukee (Essex) etc etc...

Then again, maybe not.

EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 07:17 AM

Our local newspaper, on Monday morning, included a "Dear Abby" column in which a very distraught, and apparently very sincere, lady had written to reveal that she had just wasted the last year of her life, and considerable of her resources, in responding to (and propagating) a "chain letter" to "Stop Madalyn Murray O'Hair's" petition to "Ban Religion."

This poor person only wanted to warn people that they should make sure their personal crusade is for a worthy and necessary cause. She said that "The only thing I didn't do ... was check the facts." She had just recently learned that the "petition" in question didn't really exist (and never had).

I thought "Abby's" remark (as a footnote) that "P.S. Madalyn Murray O'Hair has been dead for over half a decade now." was really cold, callous, and outright uncalled for.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: SeanM
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 03:34 AM

Y'know, some friends of mine used to do this sort of thing to enliven the periods between emptying the beer and the next round arriving.

(Warning. Dubious logical fallicies used herein)

It's a GREAt "paranoia" argument. How do you, as a person, know for fact that a space vehicle landed on the moon and brought back toys? How do you, the informed consumer, know that what you bought from the store is actually as labeled? How do you know that someone's pegged YOUR life for amusemen an how do you know whos involved?

Done properly, you get your pints and start the cyclone of conspiracu running. Scoring is easy - if you come up with and defend a new 'secret society' that survives a night of drunken logical battles, you win the ability to not have to pay in on the next round. If you're society get shot down in the Illuminated attempts with no recourse, well, you're buying. And if you really don't have a clue, pour more beer down the ladies and gents nattering, and not only will you be liked, but the nattering gets a LOT funnier.

It IS a simple stream to go from "watched the launch" to "faked the launch". First, TV was really coming into its own. There were problems with adjusting to the fact that reality could just barge into your family room, kick your elderly Auntie out of the rocker for a place to sit, and trott out "up to the minute" updates.

From there... To begin with, there are a lot of people at the start of this who are not totally but increasingly convinced, an number who buy into it whole hog. The rest probably don't care enoug to look and accept what they see.

So... to the 'naysayers' any reports of difficulties can be blown far and beyond the hysteria needed for their campaign, and it gets vented over teh entire enterprise.

Years later, the Conspiracy still needs to have a human to keep feeding from. All it takes is one...

As long as The One True Believer sticks to his/her guns and runs with it at all costs, when the silliness recycles there's a ready made fight to boost awareness on the issue.

Sordid, Ugly, and has NO SPACE in science (beyond the varying psycho sciences)

Me? I know it's all true. NONE of our spaceflights or airflights occur, and there's Neptunian Time Scramblers on our cars and altering our heads. You're in a box. There's actually nothing further from you than 15 yards. It's just the space had to be packed in tightly, so it may take a while to get there.

And in years... when the Invisible Pink Unicorn opens her box of Invisible Pink Lucky Charms, I shall be bated in Invisible Pink Dust, and be happily retrieved.

Then eaten.

I'm working on that last bit.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 01:52 AM

Well spoken Ted.

When Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. I was in the Lobby of the Welcome Hotel in Newfoundland. The other 8 or 9 folks in the room literally could not believe that I was so naieve as to think it was REALLY happening.

When I was in my early twenties, my jaw would drop every time seemingly normal intelligent people said totally dumb things. Over the years I learned that most people have HUGE blind spots. Still like them....BUT I DO try and hunt down informed folks for conversation.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:59 PM

Ya know Mark, it's funny you should mention that........As I was lying therewhile they were making various "connections" into assorted veins and and the like, they wheeled the robot (whom they refer to as "Lenny"....cute...) past me and introduced him. I only had about a 10 second look and I went under not too long after that, but I would have sworn I saw a Lego Trademark on him...................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:52 PM

Ya know -- it has gotta take some real distrust of your fellow huming to project the notion that so many hundreds and hundreds of participants would subscribe to a huge public deception, with no particular target!!! And given that so many of our accusations are confessions, Mario, maybe you should ask your friends if they feel like they are faking life in some way!!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: rangeroger
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:46 PM

BillD, that sure looked like cousin Elmers still before the Revenuers got to it.

rr

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:32 PM

Hey, 'Spaw, I saw on the Internet that that so-called DaVinci robot for doing heart surgery is really just a bunch of Lego blocks covered with aluminum foil, and they used trick photography to make it look like it's actually working on patients. So you really should check it out before you....uh...hmmmm...er....never mind.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:16 PM

I'll bet Mario's friends have met Hiram Turnbull!!...he was never shy...

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 11:10 PM

Years ago, a boyfriend told me that he has trouble believing the earth is round- his parents had reminded him that in the Bible it mentions the "four corners of the earth". Maybe that's the cornerstone (no pun intended) belief of the Flat Earth Society, which is evidently still alive and thriving.

MMario, the part that boggles my mind is that you found adozen people who all believed the same thing. Were they close friends to each other- and less so to you? I suppose that would help explain it. I agree that the experience would be scary. There's no way you could win that debate- they're too many levels of communication away. It would make a person watch one's back!

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 09:22 PM

No Larry, especially if you want us to have a few good thoughts or prayers for your Uillean pipes. I'd say that your post was enough..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 08:35 PM

Well, to return this to music... I have to fess up... No one has ever been able to play the Uilleann Pipes. They realy don't exist. They really are nothing more than a hunk of radiator and a bellows. Ever notice the guys behind us, with their backs to you, when we "play" the pipes? They are really playing gazzoos. The more you have in the way of regulators - drones etc... you need more little guys. I expect, now that I have share this with you all to be offed by Liam O'Flynn, the grand Visar Poohbah of the secret order of Uillann Pipers. So, good bye all, if they find me.
Larry
PS Is this thread drift? Should I have started another thread?????

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 07:30 PM

"Everyone in the UK knows the moon is made out of green Cheese"

Cheese I grant you - but it's not green. Wallace and Gromit got there first and checked it out, and it's yellow The Americans obviously went somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 07:16 PM

Awhile back, there was a Fox network program all about the hoax and they made it sound as though the possibility was true. Several people I know became hoax nuts.....Fortunately, I just know them and they aren't "friends."

A hoax on the proportion of the Apollo program makes the Kennedy Conspiracy theory look like a pea in the Grand Canyon! Good gawdamighty......How many people would have to be involved over the years? And why hasn't any reputable person with Grumman, McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed, North American, or NASA itself ever "spilled the beans".....except for a rare idiot who's rocket has fizzled.

Most of the hoax myth is debunked on THIS SITE. I have a few others pertaining to gebunking the hoax foax, but this one will do.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 06:52 PM

and you can imagine what this bit of trickery , based on Mr Turnbull's design, did when projected onto clouds over Iowa, using newly developed laser technology!....

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 06:44 PM

"...prototype FOR one....."

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Sourdough
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 06:43 PM

What is missing among people who subscribe to a theory such as faked moon travel has nothing to do with intelligence, it has far more to do with the ability to think critically. There are a lot of intelligent people who have never learned how to balance conflicting claims of reality. This is one of the main functions of education. It can be learned without education, by experience, but no matter how it is learned it is always difficult. It means keeping an open mind so that you can handle ambiguities. It means not succumbing to "common sense" without examination, it means continuing to learn, and it often means foregoing the comfort of certainty when no answer is available.

Your friends? MMario, intelligent? Very possibly. However, with their ability to process information, I would not want them advising me on matters of health, love, business, etc.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 06:41 PM

*sigh*,...I suppose I might as well confess...it WAS all faked. I have known it for years. In fact, much of the EARLY hardware was built near my home in Kansas, by Hiram A. Turnbull of Hoisington, Kans....(The media coverage, of course, was orchestrated by the gummint, in Wash DC)

The interesting thing is, Hiram got his start faking flying saucers, and when he was finally caught, the powers that be decided to put Mr Turnbull's skills to good use, so as to keep the $$$$$ flowing...

Proof?? Why of course I have proof!...Mudcat is an extraordinary place, and I would not dream of making a cliam like that without proof!

Here is a rare photo of Hiram, taken by his wife, Ermintrude, as he was finishing an early project about 1962....Hiram's Flyer, 3469276

This was the prototype one that was launched over Canada a few years ago.....

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:47 PM

People will believe anything...or not believe anything. It doesn't necessarily link to whether they are intelligent or sane...or the contrary. Usually it does link to the fact that they got some information from some source that they considered a reliable or a persuasive one. Once they have emotionally committed to an opinion on the matter, they are then very adept at finding further sources of information which support their opinion...and they are also inclined to become increasingly contemptuous, even pitying, of those who hold a contrary opinion.

And so it goes...

The same is true in the fields of politics and religion.

Mario, you would have to be one of those friends of yours, and live their whole life, and then you would know exactly why they think the space program was faked.

I suspect it has little to do with either their intelligence or their sanity, but with something that triggered them to have an opinion at some point, and then the ego is invested in defending, maintaining and strengthening said opinion...for emotional reasons.

My opinion? The space program was indeed real, but there were some very notable coverups with regard to contacting direct evidence of alien life (vehicles) and ancient alien artifacts (on the moon and elsewhere). In fact, "cousins" or "ancestors" might be closer to the truth than aliens...but that's mere speculation at this point.

I may, of course, be entirely or partially wrong about that. It's my opinion, that's all...based on various stuff I've come across here and there, and found fairly convincing.

And it's not really vital to me that anyone else on Mudcat has to believe in my opinion. I seriously doubt that it would change things much if they did...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:13 PM

Oh course those rock samples were faked. Everyone in the UK knows the moon is made out of green Cheeze,

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:10 PM

I believe that they believe it--and I also believe that they seem like fairly normal human beings, but it is a lot easier to fake being normal than it is to fake a moon launch--

Most people, especially most Americans, know a lot about whatever it is that they do for a living and have a fair grasp of the facts, along with a bunch of reliable opinions related to that stuff, but when it comes to everything else, they are all over the place--most have no undertanding at all of the processes that bring them food, take away waste products, provide them with clothing, let alone how their mortgage rate was caculated, or where the money that paid for their home actually came from, or what goes on in any of those 315 odd other countries on the Rand McNally globe in their library--They don't need to know, they don't wanna know--

When called upon to come up with explanations for stuff that they know nothing about, some people just shrug, and others just make answers up--technically speaking, this is called, "confabulation"--though non-technically, it is called being "Full of shit"--

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:01 PM

Where did you think they got Bush from, he`s a regular moon man, Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:01 PM

Mouse, did you see that TV show on Fox a couple of months ago wtith the guy who had written the book ucovering the Apollo "Hoax". He said "Look at the flag in this picture it is waving. This is impossible because the moon has no atmosphere!"

People seem to believe anything they see on TV.

I remember Walter Kronite on TV telling us why the flag looked like it was waving in the still pictures. They made it that way. He had a litting "waving" flag in his hand in the studio.

I am kind of curious as to how you found yourself alone with a dozen such people.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:00 PM

MMario, it's tough when people you feel you know well all of a sudden throw you for a loop. That happened to me with some very close friends of mine during the last presidential election. Not to get bogged down in it again but we found we were polar-opposites in November! We decided for the sake of our friendship we would not discuss American politics. It worked! We're still great friends!!

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:59 PM

There was a program about this on British Television. A lot of people believe that photos were faked etc. There is, however, one thing that can't be accounted for. The 300 gram sample of moondust the Soviet Union got back from an unmanned mission was nearly identical in chemistry and mineralogy to the samples brought back by the luner astronauts. I suppose the CIA and the KGB got together and made it up between them (heh heh). Go back to reality, folks.

Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:58 PM

MMario - I have met people who don't know that butter is made from cream and that cream comes from milk...

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:54 PM

that might explain it burke - but most of these people consider ren-faire a job; and all of them distinguish quite well between "ren" and "real"....the ones who "live" it are a little too wierd ; even for us who like spending weekends in Elizabethean times. I was really freaked out by this whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:49 PM

oh c'mon guest - I prefaced this with a statement that it was a BS subject - but what gets me is that I would run into this many people outside of a "institutional living" center that would believe this. Or over the age of six.

it scares me. I mean this really does. I've maintained for years kids are intelligent enough to tell the difference between fact and fiction on television and in books. And now I find a bunch of adult people I respect are convinced that the space program is a fake? That these people I have known for years are (in at least one spot) more twisted then a ball of yarn played with by a litter of kittens?

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Burke
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:44 PM

Renaissance Fair friends? Maybe they're taking their characters a little to seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:42 PM

NO - they each have their little quirks and things - but this they seriously believe is an enormous government hoax. At least so they all said. It really shook me up. AND they were sober. Nor do I think they are good enough actors to pull my leg for the length of time this conversation took place...

It was a truly bizarre experience -

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,announcer
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:41 PM

Elvis has left the building.

Now back to one of the most idiotic threads in Mudcat memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,Elvis Presley
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:39 PM

I guess that y'all are on to me now. I was the one who faked the whole darn thing. We filmed the moon landing on Col. Parker's ranch outside of Vegas.

The whole thing was catered by Col. Saunders. His KFC is the official fried chicken of NASA.

Excuse me, gotta go pump some gas.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:33 PM

There's a lot of people who think that but I ain't one of them. Remember what Naemanson said in another thread - there's no way that many people can keep a secret!

The space program is very real, and VERY expensive. I wish they would use my tax dollars to develop some new beaming-up technology, but of course the auto and airplane manufacturers would probably sabotage it...

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:33 PM

MMario, do these friends also think Big Brother can monitor their activities through their television sets?
I don't mean to make this into a "Heavy Subject" but isn't it sad that all the astronauts who have given up their lives in the name of science and research are now to be considered part of a big hoax?

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:31 PM

The pyramids were built by aliens.
Stonehenge too
And the statues on Easter Island.
All of today's computer Technology is based upon the equipment on the alien ship which crashed in Roswell N.M.
There is an international media conspiracy to keep Ani DiFranco off the airwaves.

I want to believe!

Reality is just too boring for some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:31 PM

Anyone who believes that tale hasn't noticed how poor our government agencies seem to be at keeping secrets. The only kept secrets that I can think of right now are the final resting place of Jimmy Hoffa and who really killed JFK. My impression is that these secrets have been kept only because no one in government has been trusted with the answers.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Space program - real or faked?
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:31 PM

My father helped design the inertial guidence systems for the Mercury and Apollo missions. We watched it all with great interest. The folks who believe this are most likly married cousins who read the National Enquirer. Or worse.