Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 02:44 AM

Although Saddam became the president of Iraq in 1979 he was the power in the land long before that.
The USA was a very important supporter of Iraq on his march to become a regional power.
And of course one reason was that they wanted to use him and Iraq to counter the threat of Iran.

Here is what Said K Aburish had to say [or write] in his book "Saddam Hussein" published in 2000.
"
"All warnings aside ,in 1989 the United States supplied Iraq with helicopter engines,vacuum pumps for a nuclear plant,sophisticated communications,computers,bacteria strains, and hundreds of tonnes of unrefined sarin.
Furthermore the pro Iraq activities of the US -Iraqi Business Forum ,led as it was by former diplomats with solid connections with the State Department , were augmented by the work of Kissinger Associates , the consulting firm headed by former secretary of Sate Henry Kissinger .
Representing companies such as Volvo,Fiat and Hunt Oil ,this firm took their signal from the government .Two of the insiders Brent Scowfield and Lawrence Eagleburger , were to join the Bush administration in the spring of 1989 , the former as National Security Adviser."
albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 05:28 PM

I'd love to give you a hand Terebus, but the beer in Brussels has the better of me and, let's face it, you don't really need it judging by the comments so far.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

Perhaps Folkiedave can do well enough for him to tell us the names of the people who served as US Ambassadors to Iraq during all this time that Saddam was the US's pal. Now let's see Saddam came to power in 1979, who was the US Ambassador to Iraq present at whatever ceremony that took place to mark the occasion - After all many here believe that the US via the CIA put Saddam in power.

So Rumsfeld, a private citizen at the time of his meeting with Saddam, unlike Gorgeous George, was there to sell Saddam weapons was he? Now tell us Folkiedave just exactly how he would go about doing that, particularly as the vast bulk of armament sales to Saddam came from Russia, France and China. They traded arms for oil, if you doubt any of that, take a look at who has oil leases, exploration and field operating rights in Iraq (Same old faces then as now).

By the bye Folkiedave, Gorgeous George wasn't there pleading for peace he was there looking for money. True to type Glasgow Labour Politician with his nose wedged firmly in the trough, his greatest fear was that if Saddam left he would be out in the cold - the vital question for Gorgeous George at the time was where on earth the next Armani suit would come from?

No there is no army of "contractors " waging their own privatised war in Iraq. There may well be a large number of private security firms operating in Iraq and elsewhere all over the middle-east, but to state that they are "waging their own privatised war", is rather over-egging the pudding. But that is what the extreme-left tend to do, as I stated before - The same old emotive clap-trap made up of myths, half-truths, downright lies and misrepresentations - Well done indeed Folkiedave.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:56 PM

Well put Folkie Dave!!
ifor

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:32 PM

If Gorgeous George's pal, Saddam Hussein had been left in power,

I detect a little bias here. He was of course a friend of Reagan, Rumsfeld and the USA administration of the time.

As George said (paraphrase):"The difference between my visit to Saddam and Rumsfeld's was that I was there to plead for peace and he was there to sell arms".

So let's not call him "Georgeous George's pal" - lets call him the USA's pal who were busy selling him arms AFTER they knew he was using chemical weapons on people.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:17 PM

Are large numbers of mercenary so called "contractors " waging their own privatised war in Iraq? - Once more, I don't think so.

Sometimes I think you have a secret line to the newspapers - writing something that evidence is about to contradict.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2138878,00.html

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 12:41 PM

of course not, they just don't like being shown for what they are hypocrites.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 11:40 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G1RBJVSPqps

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 11:29 AM

To Shakey
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on things ....but I do know that when it came to the invasion of Iraq the war gang lied and the anti war movement were irght to protest against the drive to war.

The results are coming in weekly with no resolution in sight.

The latest bit of news is the Oxfam report into the slide into chaos in Iraq and the protests by Surrey neighbours of an attempt to get planning consent for a house to be turned into a residential centre for families who are vising their seriously injured servicemen and women returning from Iraq and who are being treated in a nearby hospital.

These servicemen are coming back with horrific wounds and the residents are claiming their properties will be reduced in value....
albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:55 AM

You asked a question about somebody called Massari?
If he had terrorist links they must have paled compared to the crimes of Augusto Pinochet who ,when wanted in Spain ,was held in luxury in a sumptious Surrey house before being sent back to Chile. Jack Straw and Tony Blair were at the helm at the time and could have struck a real blow against international terrorism as Pinochet's victims included British and Spanish citizens as well as thousands of Chileans who were murdered,thrown out of aeroplanes,tortured , raped and buried in ghastly unmarked graves.
ifor

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:33 PM

the labour party wasn't even in office.

Oh for gods sake read what wld wrote, he's made the same point a couple of times and, as usual you've missed it.

btw I've asked a question twice can't you come up with a decent explanation

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:11 PM

Weelittledrummer
I tnink you are living in some kind of cloud of disillusionment, a sort of mist of misery.

I really don't think the left wing of the 1980s Labour Party can be blamed for the lack of government support for disabled people...the labour party wasn't even in office.

You do recall that it was the Conservative government that made a sustained attack on the working class,their organisations and the welfare state way back in the 1980s
.
While Thatcher was busy with the deployment of cruise missiles the anti nuclear slogan was "Welfare Not Warfare " ...Then she spent 20 billions on Trident which is shortly going to be replaced when Brown finds it convenient to make the announcement.I have read somewhere that its replacement will cost 60 billion pounds. No doubt you will blame that on the left wing anti nuclear crowd also.

Your basic attitude seems to be there is nothing we can do,so dont bother and let the right wing war crowd get on with it....

Just a little reminder that it was Nye Bevan [ he too expelled from the Labour Party ] , called a "primitive marxist" by his biographer Michael Foot [that man again and 93 years young this month], who did most to establish the NHS. Bevan was voted Welshman of the Millennium in some poll or other which was rather a good result for a militant socialist and shows that socialists can be very popular!


This was a man who fought the most enormous personal and political battles against the right wing of his own party and the Conservatives ....should he have bothered?? Of course he should and the health of our kids has improved dramatically because of the NHS ...which is under attack from the likes of Blair and Brown.
best wishes
albert
ps
Blair a visionary?I think not ...more a charlatan...if he had a vision it was how to stuff the pockets of the wealthy with even more riches!

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:43 PM

Jesus, I could have written that al, in fact I'm pretty sure I have in the past on this very forum.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:06 PM

Jaded...maybe I am.

I remember my mother when Foot was elected top man in the Labour Party. She was so excited. She was dying of cancer at the time, but she thought that she was about to see a world where Britain was going to abandon its H-bombs. She had grandchildren and she thought they were the hope of the future.

God forgive me, I said to her - No Mum, all this means is that the tories are going to win at least the next two elections - at least eight more years of the tories - pushing me an my disabled wife further to the bottom of society and ladling out the share options and tax breaks to their rich friends. One time the Labour party will lose; probably the next time as well - if they don't have policies which are perceived by the general population as moderate.

Blair was a visionary. He saw that the only rich bastards he had to propitiate were Rupert Murdoch and the Americans. After that, he could do pretty much what he wanted. And he was better for the poorer classes.

I see the left wing of the Labour Party as cynical users of idealists. Uninterested in the acquisition of power.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:40 PM

The topic is GG, remember.

So Albert, as you're an expert on these matters how do you explain the following statement:

I can confirm that the "Massari Must Stay" campaign - the campaign against my deportation - was run by Lord Avebury and Mr Galloway"

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:39 PM

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM

Nothing to dispute in what I have written then Albert?

Haven't the guys from the Socialist Workers Party, or your pals in Respect, had time to brief you yet?

Exactly like your hero GG - no bloody substance at all.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,Albert
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:29 PM

TO teribus,
Hey, this Iraq war ...its a big desert right....it must all be a mirage!

albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:04 PM

"Reply to Weelittledrummer,
You are factually wrong.The USA led coalition is still bombing hell out of the country.

US troops are shooting up civilian neighbourhoods and waging a racist war on the Iraqi poulation and of course there are large numbers of mercenary so called "contractors " in the country who are also waging their own privatised war." - GUEST,David - on 30 Jul 07 at 05:09 AM.

So I actually went and had a look. Since midnight on the 31st December 2006 to 3rd June 2007 here are the instances that Guest David is talking about on a month by month basis:

January 2007:
- There were 14 shooting incidents involving MNF Troops resulting in 27 deaths
- There were 7 Air Strikes resulting in 34 dead only 1 of the missions was a bombing mission.
- There were 2 Road Traffic Accidents resulting in 2 deaths.

February 2007:
- 4 shooting incidents resulting in 7 people killed 3 by the "large numbers of mercenary so called "contractors " in the country who are also waging their own privatised war".
- 3 Air Strikes resulting in 80 deaths all were bombing missions.
- 1 Artillery incident resulting in 4 deaths.

March 2007:
- 10 shooting incidents resulting in 22 people killed
- 5 Air Strikes resulting in 18 killed none of the Air Strikes were bombing missions (The casualties, six people, from one of those incidents are disputed and unverified).

April 2007:
- 1 shooting incident resulting in 1 death.
- 2 Air Strikes resulting in 9 dead none of the Air Strikes were bombing missions.
- 1 Artillery incident resulting in 4 people killed.

May 2007:
- 4 shooting incidents resulting in 5 deaths
- 6 Air Strikes resulting in 29 deaths one of the Air Strikes was a bombing mission.

To 3rd June 2007:
- 1 Air Strike resulting in 3 people killed - not a bombing mission.

Now then correct me if my arithmetic is wrong here but in total that provides me with corroborated fact (IBC data base maximum numbers used) that in five months:

- There have been a total of 19 Air Strikes of which only 5 of which were bombing missions.

- There have been 33 shooting incidents and only 1 of them involving civilian "contractors"

- In 154 days, 59 people were shot in Iraq by members of the MNF and 3 by large army of "civilian contractors".

So you tell me:

Is the US led coalition is still bombing the hell out of Iraq? - I don't think so.

Are US troops shooting up civilian neighbourhoods and waging a racist war on the Iraqi poulation? - Again, I don't think so.

Are large numbers of mercenary so called "contractors " waging their own privatised war in Iraq? - Once more, I don't think so.

Now here's a sobering thought for Guest David/ Respectful Albert et al. If Gorgeous George's pal, Saddam Hussein had been left in power, a position both GG and his followers all seemingly support, and if he had maintained his lower average - 23,716 Iraqi's would have died at his hands in one way or another in the same period that MNF Forces have killed in total 238.

The vast majority of Iraqi's being killed are being killed by those who seek to protect them from the foreign invader, sectarian tit-for-tat killings and criminal activity. Remember Saddam emptied his jails before the invasion, emptied them that is of criminals, not the political prisoners, those he had put to death.

The truth as far as members of Respect goes is only what happens to be convenient at any given moment. A rag-tag bundle of emotive clap-trap made up of myths, half-truths, downright lies and misrepresentations. Gorgeous George wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit him on the arse.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ALBERT
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:47 AM

Reply to Weelittledrummer

How jaded you are!

Thank God you weren't around in the days of Spartacus and the slave revolt in ancient Rome. With you around we would all still be dragging around chain and balls and working on a chain gang.
I can picture you back then:

ROMAN MASTER: "Which one of you is Spartacus? Speak up now and you will have a clean death and not the crucifixation we plan for him!

SPARACUS: I am Spartacus!

SLAVE: No ,I am Spartacus!

SECOND SLAVE No, Iam Spartacus!

THIRD SLAVE I am SPARTACUS!

FOURTH SLAVE [WEELITTLEDRUMMER ] Oh,I can't be bothered with this ! That's Spartacus over there .The guy with the dimple! Take him .I don't know why he led this uprising anyway.It would have never worked.


Funny but when Karl Marx was asked who was his favourite figure from history he replied "Spartacus" ...and Weelittledrummer or his ancient Roman equivalent did not get a mention.
Albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:22 AM

'The logic of your above statement would lead to a handful of people [lets call them Bush,Blair Putin] deciding where and when the world goes to war.'


Got it at last! That's what happens! The ones who can be arsed to take some interest in the acquisition of power, sometimes attain it.

The ones who are putting on a sort of cabaret act (for fun and/or profit) for you and your mates, don't.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

Sham trial by Parliament
Press release on Parliament suspension debate
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

"At least the United States Senate gave me an uninterrupted hearing," said an outraged George Galloway as the Speaker threw him out of the Commons less than one third of his way through his speech of defence against the so-called Standards and Privileges Committee.

"It has come to something," he continued, "When the leading anti-war MP could get a fairer hearing in the Republican Senate than in the British House of Commons.

"I was thrown out of Parliament this evening just as I had given one example of the double standards that go to the heart of this matter. Anyone watching this would have seen Parliament plunged into disrepute as it absurdly decided - through agreeing my exclusion - that I am not permitted to point to those double standards or to criticise those who have produced this unjust report about me.

"We now have the absurdity in which the House of Commons has convinced itself, or at rather pretends that it has, that 10 MPs sat in a committee room somehow cease to be what they by definition are - highly political people who together constitute a political tribunal.

"The public know that is so; MPs, if they were being honest, know it; it's only in the chamber of the House of Commons that you are not allowed to say so.

"I had much, much more to say about the report and the overarching question of who it is in this Iraq affair who has brought Parliament into disrepute. Instead, by voting to throw me out, the MPs present this evening chose to conduct a kangaroo court in my absence.

"They may be happy to close their ears to the truth. Most people in Britain - and abroad - are not.

"They will be outraged at this sham in what is supposed to be the highest court of the land."













http://www.georgegalloway.com/

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:06 AM

To Weelittledrummer
The logic of your above statement would lead to a handful of people [lets call them Bush,Blair Putin] deciding where and when the world goes to war.

If the war was confined to those individuals I wouldn't mind so much but the type of war they have launched involves the killing of tens of thousands and the maiming and terrorising of many more.
has anuclear weapons potential.

It involves the use of white phospherous and napalm,cluster bombs and cruise missiles,high explosives and has anuclear weapons potential.

It is because we have had a century of wars that there is now a world wide grassroots anti war movement....something the masters of war are apprehensive of.

Thank goodness we don't have to be bit players in our own future but have the potential to collectively change things for the better!
albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:34 AM

One of the eternal advantages of pissing about and posturing on the fringes of politics is that you never actually get to make any decisions about war and peace. You just get to piss about and posture - terrific fun, I'm sure.

the lucky ones get to do it on the world stage. Your leader will tell you the rules.

Bar and bigot - abuse again! Not really an argument.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ALBERT
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:10 AM

Today's report in the Guardian should make sobering reading for all who are concerned about events in Iraq.

It says that the chief victims of the growing humanitarian crisis are children. The article,based on the Oxfam report,says that children are not getting enough food,are malnourished ,are lacking sanitation and clean water and are living in extreme poverty.Many are now worse off,four years after the invasion, than they were living under the Saddam dictatorship.

Four million Iraqis ,including some of the country's most skilled people are living in exile having fled the war zones,the sectarian killings and the mayhem that is Iraq.Unemployment in the country is at 50 percent.

The invasion of Iraq,which followed years of sanctions has driven Iraq back into barbarism.Society has been shattered and the conflict looks set to continue and possibly even escalated if Bush launches an attack on neighbouring Iran as he is being urged to do by some neocons in Washington.
albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM

their powers of leadership kept the Labour Party away from power for a generation

well said that man

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:18 AM

Dear Weelittledrummer
And there I was thinking it was those members of the Labour party splitting to form the right wing Social and Democratic Party [SDP] who did the damage to Labour back in the early 1980s.
With Galloway overturning a 15000 Labour majority in East London 2 years ago perhaps things are opening up to the left of Labour.
Whatever I thank you for your good wishes and trust that you have a good night at the" Bar and Bigot" tonight.You do need to get out a bit more .
ifor
"pissing and posturing " eh? And I thought we were discussing war and peace in the Middle East!

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 07:08 PM

Michael Foot, Tony Benn.... their powers of leadership kept the Labour Party away from power for a generation. Even when the tories were almost begging for another party to step in and clear up their mess, the public would not entertain the idea of people like this at the centre of power.

If that's what politics is about for you ...pissing about and posturing, then I have made a mistake .... GG is indeed your man. You will be well suited and happy together. I wish you joy of it.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM

Dear Shakey
It's just as well you are hiding behind another name or Galloway would want to have a word or two with you!

When he arrived at the US Senate committee some time ago the senators thought they were going to devour him up as in one of those McCarthyite hearings from the 1950s.Galloway made mincemeat of them.

When it came to the war Galloway was pilloried,harassed and put through a Labour Party show trial and purged. A member of the Labour Party for 36 years he was thrown out after a kangaroo trial.

At that trial he was defended with evidence and statements by Tony Benn ,Michael Foot the former leader of the Labour Party,Mark Seddon a member of its National Executive and Tony Woodley the secretary of the Transport And General Workers Union .

He was expelled by party functionaries acting on orders from the top for one reason only.He had to be punished for speaking out articulately and forcefully against the coming war which he said would be illegal and a disaster.He was supported by an anti war movement of millions across the world which must have given him strength.

He was correct.The war which has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people was started by a most brutish right wing republican president aided and abetted by liars ,deceivers and servile opportunists in the heart of New Labour.

If Galloway's opposition to the war makes him a "scumbag" to use your disgraceful description we needed a few hundred others like him when the decision to invade was taken.

As for Respect,it is a coalition opposed to the war, opposed to the attack on our civil liberties and the whole mania for privatisation and the free market which has seen in the past few weeks huge sums of money being spent on the war and corrupt arms sales to Saudi Arabia ,for example ,while flood defences along the river Severn have ben neglected,underfunded and environmental workers sacked!

So many responsible for the mass murder and carnage in Iraq and Galloway gets called a "scumbag".You couldn't make it up!
ifor

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:56 PM

Al, I'm calling GG a scumbag not Albert.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:53 PM

now now! calling someone a scumbag...hardly measured debate!

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Shakey
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:14 PM

First of all - some of my posts are going awol, not only on this thread, I'm not saying there's any conspiracy (that's the othercamp), just that it's happening.

Albert, you think I'm ignorant about the situation while you confess surprise that the saudi's are funding the sunni murderers. ME 101, the saudi's are sunni, Iran is shia, they don't get on, ok. The US is friends with saudi you say, but Albert they give billions to Isreal, does that make the saudi's and Isreal buddies.

The same drivel comes pouring out, "It's racist" - well if it was racist then the first gulf war must also have been and yet therewere 3-40 countries involved - including a number of arab states - must do better.

Oh no, sorry, I meant it's the oil. It would have been far cheaper to buy the bloody stuff. Now I don't deny the US has all sorts of geo-strategic reasons and safeguarding the flow may have been one of them. That's a long way from trying to nick it all.

Iraq is in a mess. Hello, there was a war, what did you expect, Germany was in a mess after WW2 does that mean we shouldn't have fought Mr Hitler?

As has been pointed out, most of the mess has been created, post-invasion, by the sectarian murderers.

But actually this is not really the topic is it, the topic is GG. GG is much more than one of the many anti-war group. In fact although I know many anti-war people I don't know one personaly that would defend the scumbag or his scumbag party.

So Albert, as you're an expert on these matters how do you explain the following statement:

I can confirm that the "Massari Must Stay" campaign - the campaign against my deportation - was run by Lord Avebury and Mr Galloway"

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ALBERT
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

The Independent carried as its front page story today an article about the 4 million Iraqi refugees who have fled into exile with many living on the breadline in Syria .This is one of the largest forced movements of people since the second World War.
Coupled with the latest Oxfam report about the state of Iraq they makes a damning indictment of US/UK policy towards that country.
albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,ALBERT
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:49 PM

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:23 PM

Dear Teribus
I have never heard of the International Herald Tribune described as a sort of left wing blog!

Go to the source as The IHT has.

Of course the sectarian slaughter in Iraq has been immense but so hs the slaughter unleashed by the invasion of Iraq by the US Led Coalition IN 2003. And let us not have any doubt about that it was the invasion which unleashed the carnage.

The invasion started with Operation Shock And Awe which involved the destruction of market places,mosques,residential neighbourhoods and hospitals as the hundreds of cruise missiles and bombs rained down on Bagdhad.Come on now Teribus you must remember how the US commentators boasted about effectiveness of the operation when it all looked so positive for the invaders.The International Herald Tribune article published last month is a timely reminder that the US bombing of Iraq is continuing along with ground combat operations.[Mudcat readers can check this article for themselves by going to google and typing in US bombing of Iraq and scrolling down to the relevant page ] .

Of course the pro war press across the world has by and large been unwilling or unable to report this part of the carnage what with reporters being embedded with the Coalition forces and indeed the situation being so dangerous for all reporters although there have been some independent western blogs coming out of Iraq which have painted a very different picture from authorised sources.
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM

I think Bush knew that.

There just had to be some response to 9/11. He had to 'put a bit of stick about' - just show the world you don't do that to America and nothing happens.. Iraq as it was, was a huge convenience to everybody in the terrorist line of busines. Largely unpoliced, largely unpopulated, hugely corrupt, a bloodthirsty fucking idiot in charge, sworn enemy of Israel, no real friends in the Gulf...or the middle east generally.

It was like I said a few posts ago about when Saddam hanged that young Observer reporter - he had been pissing off everybody for years. Times when it would have made sense to be conciliatory - he wasn't. It was a bit like that bit in Richard III when everybody starts edging away from Lord Hastings. he was for the chop - so unfortunately was his country.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:03 PM

Guest David & Guest Albert,

Usual emotive clap-trap made up of myths, half-truths, downright lies and misrepresentations.

So the International Herlad Tribune stated (5th June, 2007) that the "rate" of US bombing has doubled since last year. That would be 2006 wouldn't it? And that actually does not tell us very much. If the US dropped two bombs in 2006 that would mean that they have dropped four this year - hardly bombing the hell out of a country is it?

Go to IBC there you will find out who is doing the killing in Iraq - as usual you will find that it is the Islamic Jihadists slaughtering their fellow muslims because the MNF actually fire back when they try it on with them, so Islams warriors take the easy option - like most terrorist organisations - they hit the civilians.

For almost all your charges I would prefer to see some authoratative sources - not left wing bloggs.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:43 AM

The point that seems to escape many who supported the invasion is that US and British troops are in a country that is thousands of miles away from their homelands.
Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on New York and there was no Al queda presence there until after the invasion.
The attack on New York was carried out by mainly Saudis and yet there has been no attack on Saudi Arabia .One response to this has been the US announcement that it is to rearm Saudi Arabia with huge arms contracts being signed.
Meanwhile Bin Laden must be having a real chuckle somewhere as Pakistan starts to slide and even Saudi Arabia becomes increasingly restive under the control of the Saudi Royal Family.
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:20 AM

"US troops are shooting up civilian neighbourhoods and waging a racist war on the Iraqi poulation"

we are supposed to take that precis of our allies actions with total equanimity...? Frankly you wouldn't have go further than the end of my street to hear MUCH worse racist abuse - have you never been in an Indian Restaurant round about closing time? And I don't think I live in a particularly racist area.

I DO think you're onto a loser with Galloway. However that's for you to find out. When you've accomplished something, let us know. I can see that you are well meaning, but I think the guy's bad news for anything that gets involved with him. Sort of Kilroy Silk Mk2.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:54 AM

Well I have to concede to Weelittledrummer that I have never been to Iraq carrying a gun in my hand or otherwise.The same applies to almost every foreign soldier who has been sent to that country.

I have, however ,opposed the invasion and joined the million plus march against the war in February 2003. I have raised money for the Charity Medical Aid For Iraqi Children.I have also campaigned for Iraqis to gain refuge in this country.The Independent today reported that some 4 million Iraqis are now refugees from the chaos unleashed by Bush and Blair.
I know I am not alone in calling the attack on Iraq by the US a racist war. Many US soldiers are quite open in their contempt for the Iraqi people calling them "Hajis ,towelheads" and much more.Come on man,you have seen those grim photographs of the torture and mistreatment od Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib.And there has been so much more.
Who the hell is trying to ignite righteous anger in your heart? Not me.I am posting here to add weight to the case that Galloway did not get a fair hearing in Parliament and the real war criminals are walking free and in some cases preparing for the next attack on another oil rich country in the region.
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:20 AM

"US troops are shooting up civilian neighbourhoods and waging a racist war on the Iraqi poulation "

was the bit that grabbed my attention, it seemed so reminiscent of what was being said about our troops in NI. The moment they stepped ashore the Irish mainland, they became bloodthirsty monsters. There are still a few members of mudcat who would subscribe to this view.

Despite all the evidence pointing to the fact that it was the indigenous population knocking seven shades of shit out of each other. Once that stopped - the war stopped.

anyway guest David, sorry if your breathless reports from war torn places you've never been to don't ignite righteous anger in my heart. Suddenly one feels abit like that donkey at the end of Animal farm - heard that one before, know how it ends......

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:05 AM

If you are referring to my statement above saying that the US is still bombing the hell out of Iraq let me refer you to the International Herald Tribune article of the 5th June 2007 which states that the rate of bombing by the US has doubled since last year.

The US is unable to win the ground war and hence its reliance on 500 pound bombs in often urban areas to smash the Iraqis resistance.But lets be honest here, George Bush said soon after the invasion "Bring em on!" and posed in front of a massive war banner which read "Mission Accomplished.
Well ,mission has not been accomplished ;the Iraqis keep coming on and US casualties in the dead and maimed have soared.Bush is now reviled in the USA and all those who have lost their sons and daughters in the carnage must be asking did they die for that buffoon or for some other cause?
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:43 AM

Which bit of my above posting would you like clarifying...the bit about Iraq being a catastrophe or the poor quality of medical care afforded to wounded US veterans or what??
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:09 AM

the source of your information - guest david?

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:09 AM

Reply to Weelittledrummer,
You are factually wrong.The USA led coalition is still bombing hell out of the country.
US troops are shooting up civilian neighbourhoods and waging a racist war on the Iraqi poulation and of course there are large numbers of mercenary so called "contractors " in the country who are also waging their own privatised war.
The headlines concentrate on the sectarian bombings but when the recent US "surge" took place in Baghdad the troops were not out surfing or even winning hearts and minds :they were smashing up residential areas.
The chaos ,barbarism and the carnage leads like a hangman's rope directly to the invasion.Its been murder and mayhem for all including the large number of coalition troops brought home in bodybags or now languishing with little help in Veterans hospitals. Of course in the UK the military hospitals have largely been closed down.
David
ps I am sure that the Iraqi people are very grateful for the invasion putting an end to the sanctions.Its a shame that what followed has turned out to be an even greater catastrophe to the people of Iraq who had the misfortune to be walking on land which contains America's oil....

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:46 AM

maybe so, but its not the USA and britain who are setting off bombs and stopping people improve their lives nowadays, is it?

how came none of your moral indignation is directed towards these people?

The invasion was one way of putting an end to the snactions.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,David
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:01 AM

According to an Oxfam report today a third of all Iraqi are in urgent need of help.They do not have access to clean water,food or the basics of everyday life.Many children are malnourished and a majority have learning needs.
This is as a result of the invasion and the effects of the ongoing carnage and the long years of sanctions when Iraqi society was squeezed to its bare bones.
David

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:29 AM

To weelittledrummer,

My reply to you is that there was a line drawn in the sand during the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

Across the world millions marched to oppose the war.In New York for example my daughter joined a march of some 400000 .The march was attacked by the police and penned in.Here in London over a million marched to tell Bush and Blair that the war would be a disaster.With very few exceptions [Robin Cook for example ] the Labour leadership got behind the pro war crowd.

On one side you had the millions opposed to the war and on the other you had the US neocons with their dreams of directly controlling and policing the oil supplies of much of the world.

The neocons were hand in glove with Big Business interests like Halliburton and the usual motley crew of arms dealers ,right wing adventurers and of course in Britain Blairs govt of opportunists and free market chancers.
In my opinion Blair crossed that line in the sand and never recovered his moral authority in this country.Galloway has been attacked,hounded and a concerted attempt has been made to ruin him,an attempt which is ongoing as he is a standing reminder in the heart of Parliament to the war crew, of their disasterous and murderous policy in Iraq.
Albert

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 11:10 PM

Albert

I don't really think calling some 'profoundly ignorant' adds much to the quality of the debate. as far as I could see the bloke was making quite legitimate and coherent points. Many of which - you haven't really answered.

I think there IS a defence of your point of view - but you don't seem to have spotted it.

And as I don't share your point of view, I'm not going to point it out.

Subject: RE: Did George Galloway Get A Fair Hearing
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 06:00 PM

To Shakey..
You are profoundly ignorant....that is what comes from reading and believing the Murdoch press!

The refence to the Saudis funding and backing the Sunni fighters in Iraq is bizarre because those Sunnis militant groups are also attacking the US military who are allies of the Saudis.

Its a real can of worms .and I have to say that a major factor in all this has been the USA which for a very long time has meddled in Iraq from its funding and military support of Saddam to the connivance in his attack on Iran way back the early 1980s to the economic sanctions and the US invasion itself.All for big oil.

Not for nothing was Bush known as the President of Big Oil Inc....after all this deadly interference we now see Iran emerging as a regional power with the strong possibility of another US attack on an oil rich country in the region.

As for your death list in the Middle East I sure the Iraqi people who have seen their loved one slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands and their society destroyed would have some grounds to disagree with you.
The bare faced cheek of these warmongers!!!!
Albert