A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:33 AM

Surely, the crucial thing is she didn't succeed in spite of her image. She was put on the TV precisely because of her image.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:28 AM

I'll skip past some of the more analytical posts and add a remark on her musical skills--I was searching for the Larry King stuff last night and see that CNN has also posted the audio of her "Cry Me A River."

She may not be Julie London, Joe, but her voice in places reminded me of Shirley Bassey.

"MOR" or popular culture--the elephant in the room on a folk site? A lot of people make a darned good living in that cultural venue. Some of them stray into specialty recordings when they get a chance.

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:20 AM

News flash! Twelve hours ago, my husband returned home from a trip to Arizona. He reports that Susan Boyle's performance was on TV at the hotel, in the airport in Tucson and in the airport in Las Vegas.

Amazing, isn't it?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:19 AM

Those who can do - those who can't criticise.
not true.a cliche,and a generalisation.
for the record,I have not criticised her.I too am pleased for her,furthermore I think she will perform best those songs she enjoys,which is why it is silly for people to say I would like to hear her singing folk music or this or that song.
every performer if they are to perform well,will choose that which they like.
nobody expected ElvisPresley to sing Lord Randall
I am really pleased that merit has won out over image.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:06 AM

Those who can do - those who can't criticise.

I get great pleasure listening to anyone with what I consider to be a beautiful voice. It really doesn't matter what they are singing, but when you listen to an almost perfect rendition of what is obviously a difficult song to sing, that speaks to something, I think, in the heart of any true singer. Folk music is my main love but I will admit to liking musicals, classical and pop music. That gives me such a wide range of sound that can make me happy to sing along.

At the FSGW Getaway we have had doowop sessions that I am sure the purists would want to have run out of camp on a rail, but they were FUN. To me, music should be about enjoyment, singing for the sheer joy of the moment and Susan Boyle showed that with every fibre of her being. I'm glad that, at last, she is getting her place in the sun. It's about time.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 10:03 AM

"If elitism = excellence, long live elitism"

The sad thing is, there are actually some people that believe that failed premise. There are also people who get hung up on trivial minutae such as spelling (long live Slip Mahoney!) or perceived rules for forums and end up completely missing the point.

The story isn't about whether one likes showtunes, television, or the potential oxymoron of "Britain's Got Talent".   Most rational people understand that the takeaway from the video is the valuable lesson about prejudging people. I'm just as guilty

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:53 AM

I also performed at the Black Bitch back in August 1990. It would have been easy to have not seen Susan Boyle there.
It was a wonderful audience and they treated me like family.Typical of Scotland.
I ended with Flower of Scotland because I knew they would all sing along, and I was feeling really down at the passing of the man who wrote it. The wasn't a dry eye in the house. Not one.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Ana
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:31 AM

Dick Gaughan commented during a performance that he'd decided there was no such thing as bad music - just music he either liked or disliked. Good sentiment to hold I reckon.
Folkies can sometimes be so critical of each other's music. Kind of odd when we could just be celebrating each other's pleasure in the creation of music.
Great to see an ordinary person doing an extra ordinary performance. Whether you liked the song or not, it's grand to take pleasure in her success. It's a big jump from a pub or church venues to the big audience, studio, lights etc. What guts. She not only dreamed a dream, she did it.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:28 AM

There is a recurring theme to the effect that "this song/performance" should not be discussed on Mudcat because the song comes from a stage production. Do folks realize how many songs in contemporary repertoires come from theater? How many folk singers are singing songs that Ewan MacColl, or Brendan Behan, composed for Stage productions 50 years ago? Almost anyone who does music of the sea sings Jolly Roving Tar, which was written for a stage production 120 years ago. Harrigan and Hart are considered by some to be the originators of the American Musical Theater, and I can think of a few of their songs that are part of the performance repertoire of some pretty successful "Folk singers".

Regardless of the origins of the song she chose, this average looking person, walked on to a stage with a few thousand people in the house. She maintained her dignity whilst being very rudely treated by this audience, and then started to sing. Now I realize a certain percentage of us readers of Mudcat actually have performing experience, but to maintain ones composure with an audience response like that is not an easy thing to do. She never wavered once. She planted her feet firmly on the stage, said this is what I do, and did it. There are a lot of people with opinions here that will never do that in a million years. Who gives a Fuck what song she sang, she's got balls, and did a great job. I applaud the performance.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:25 AM

Ahem! The NYCFTTS has been alerted to the ongoing situation here and is on full emergency standby.

Please govern yourselves accordingly.

This has been a public service announcement.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 09:16 AM

a song for Ireland was written by Phil Colclough,I am not sure I would like to hear Susan Boyle sing it.
She should sing that which she enjoys,which seems to be what we have heard so far,it is as silly as asking a singer of folk songs,to sing opera,or jazz,or Barry Manilow.
having heard Peter Pears[a good classical singer]murder the Water is Wide,I am not sure Susan Boyle would make a good a job of Song for Ireland
Sean Cannon does a supreerb version,but Sean Cannon,is someone who is immersed in the Irish tradition,anmd who clearly relates to the song.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:23 AM

Kendall I totally agree a wonderful song.
I second that
Al

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:21 AM

yes ,I remember LinlithThgow Folk club,Nora Devine used to organise it,.
I played the club three or four times.really friendly atmosphere,and good singers.is Nora still around?she used to run a wool shop, I think,and the pub was the Black Bitch,
I never saw Susan Boyle there.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 08:09 AM

I have never been a fan of musicals. Like Teribus, I prefer songs that tell a story. That being said, I was enthralled by Susan Boyle's voice. I would like to hear her sing "Song for Ireland" but that's just me.
This site is dedicated to folk and blues but nowhere is it written that it is restricted to those narrow parameters. In my not so humble opinion, talent transcends such limits.
Diane, ease up and while you are at it, define folk music.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 07:56 AM

back to Susan Boyle, who I still wish did folk music. Maybe she does.

No. The Linlithgow Folk Club has had regular singarounds going for about 20 years, a few miles away from where Boyle lives. (I've been to quite a few of them, despite coming from much further away). There are many other singers' events in West Lothian she could also have gone to - Tattie Bogle could give a better list than me, she helps organize some of them. These range from solidly traditional to completely singer-songwriter.

Boyle obviously doesn't give a flying fuck about folk music however you slice it. She's going to spend the rest of her career, however long or short it may be, doing the same sort of garbage as she did on TV.

I'd rather listen to almost any of the Linlithgow FC regulars.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:33 AM

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie - PM
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:46 PM

"Piers, I think you may be right about Susan going along with a partially staged episode on BGT. And I don't fault them, or her, for that."

No, I don't fault them, either. That's show biz. It's not a show I would watch. I don't know about the versions in other countries, but the German one ("Deutschland sucht das Superstar" == "Germany Seeks the Superstar") is based on the "Gong Show" premise and it involves the judges insulting the "bad" performers. I whole idea of it makes my skin crawl.

"PS,
Leo, you're so right. Susan Boyle isn't anywhere near the grotesque that some reviews are making her out to be. She's a rather average-looking 40-something woman in an entertainment world [...]"

I agree. Besides, who cares what a singer looks like? Not everyone can be gorgeous like me. (I don't like to boast, but I've been told I have the perfect face for radio.)

"Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman."

Oh, I thought Bea Arthur was a very attractive and impressive-looking woman.

I also like the way Peter Pears sang Benjamin Britten's folksong settings and I love Kathleen Ferrier's recordings of folksongs. There's not just one right way to sing folksongs. And I like Ethel Merman, though not so much when she's belting out songs. She didn't only sing like that.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 06:18 AM

Actually Greg that would make a good subject for a thread - Pub singers that you rate - Far better than the recent best singer that you know, where loads of posters named singers that might be known to them, i.e. they've listened to but that none of them actually "know".

As to the MOR crap being spouted here by some - I would have thought it self evident that if you enter a "Talent" contest where you will be required to perform through progressive rounds for that first song you have to pick what material you perform for the "Judges" who decide whether or not you carry on with great care. Ideally the song should be known so that the audience can react to you if you sing the song well (as was the case with Susan Boyle), that first song must also demonstrate your range to show the "Judges" what you are capable of and what the power of your voice is, lastly if at all possible the song should have a degree of difficulty that the "Judges" can acknowledge ("Big Song" was mentioned by one of the "Judges" on the show when it was announced).

On Diane's criteria on what makes a song or music worthwhile listening to, I'd condemn about 95% of the navel gazing contributions of modern "singer-songwriters" to the trash-can as meaningless tripe, best dscribed as being full of 15 year-old angst poured out and written in a bedroom where it should have remained unnoticed. I like songs that tell stories which is the reason I like "traditional" Folk, possibly because the passage of time has sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:16 AM

Actually, I have now had another thought. Where were you all for the last twenty years of Susan Boyle's life? And where are you now, for the Susan Boyles of our own communities? She's a local pub singer. Do we all support our own local pub singers? I hope so.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: caitlin rua
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 05:11 AM

Normally-cynical muso columnist Bob Lefsetz has this to say:

Susan Boyle went on to become the biggest superstar in music today. It's no longer a top-down world. If you want to succeed, you have to realize you're in PARTNERSHIP with your audience/consumers. These same teeming masses decide who is a star, not radio or other traditional gatekeepers. How long would it take for radio to go on Susan Boyle? You'd need SET-UP. The record would have to be tested. But none of this interference is run on the Web. You can get an instant spike on YouTube. Sure, Susan Boyle sprang from the platform of "Britain's Got Talent", but they don't air that show in the U.S. and my inbox was burning up moments after she appeared on the show. That's how fast you can make a star today.

Will she last? She's an outsider, a virgin who's never been kissed. She was dissed by her schoolmates. She's not a Barbie. The same people suing the Pirate Bay are the ones who are foisting unreasonable "stars" on the public, less and less successfully. The public knows it's cookie-cutter, that you've got to be beautiful and have true desire. Talent? The handlers will take care of that.

The public saw something in Susan Boyle. Somebody who's not playing by the rules, who believes in herself. For all the bullshit about the end of civilization, the death of record companies and newspapers, those of us not employed by these entities, sans the blinders, view this as the most exciting period of our lives. Suddenly, the Davids have power. Our lone voice now means something. Truth holds sway in a way it has not previously. It's no longer who you know, but how good you are.

We're not building stars, we're building careers. Stop laying your album-length opuses on people who don't care. Give us more Susan Boyles, who don't have a fake bone in their body, who own their identity, who follow their path so independently, that we follow them.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 04:52 AM

Good singer. Bloody awful song. That is the sum total of my thoughts on this obviously engrossing subject.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 03:01 AM

Strange how this thread has become about one poster. It always does, when she doesn't like a particular thread. That way, it usually ends up getting closed down, and voila, she's achieved her goal.

Life's too short for pedantry, acutally. It truly makes no difference to the way the world turns if people on Mudcat are discussing Susan Boyle. She deserves to be discussed, she has an incredible voice.

What the fook her private life has to do with anything though enrages me utterly. Tell the nosey bastards to bugger off. I expect she prefers life with Pebbles to any other life. Everyone is different. The lady oozed happiness to me.

I think one poster in here could learn a great deal from Susan's sweet nature.

Joe, promise me you won't turn into a Grumpy Ol' B*gger! :0)

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Steamboater
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:53 AM

When I saw Boyle, even before she began to sing, I immediately thought of Bette Davis as Charlotte Vale, pre her Claude Raines make-over from "Now Voyager". . Next? Boyle in a stage musical adaption of "Now Voyager". She's perfect!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 02:05 AM

In the first place, I didn't invent the term "schlock". I was merely quoting one of several other contributors to this thread who were as astonished as I was that a karaoke singer from a downmarket TV talent show was being discussed at all on here. The expression was so apt I nicked it.

Somebody or other asked whether I'd criticise this Caledonian warbler if she'd sung a "f*lk" song. Jock O' Hazeldean was mentioned at some stage. How far from the point can you get? She wouldn't be doing material which falls within the remit of this forum on dumbed down telly in the first place. Her voice might be OK; I haven't heard more than a snatch of it because I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than listen to tired and tainted material from Claude-Michel Schönberg or even A L Webber (to name but two inferior composers) in the first place.

I chose instead to comment somewhat scurrilously on the activities of Cameron Mackintosh's accountant as they are marginally more interesting than the travesty of Victor Hugo's work produced by the paymaster. I don't have a "musical specialty" nor indeed am I especially good at anything at all. I'm "quite good" at lots of things and anyone who was vaguely interested could find examples of my work in appropriate repositories.

Looking down the list of posters, there's not a single one known to me personally. They can't even get my name right and I'm unlikely to bump into any of them by chance if they spend their time hanging out at West End / Broadway mainstream theatres watching populist, MOR tripe. They can if they really, really want to but they ought not to inflict it forcibly on the rest of the population. This is, apparently, what they mean by "inclusive" and I'm certainly not that. I might have remarked before: If elitism = excellence, long live elitism. (Again, not mine but from a member of Hammersmith Morris).

I don't wish this wannabe either well nor ill. I don't care. It doesn't interest me. Do I stick music into various categories? Ah yes, guilty, but only two. Good and bad. And what you get on this sort of TV freak show is by definition the latter. IAFWAFIAWM(orW)WQ. Life's too short, etc etc . . .

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:44 AM

Judge Piers Morgan was on Larry King with Susan Boyle tonight, and he apologized to her for the way he acted when she first came on stage before the judges.

"I sort of feel like apologizing to Susan," he said. "I'm sorry, because we did not give you anything like the respect we should have done when you first came out."

He said the judges had been through a long day with "lots of terrible auditions."

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:25 AM

Yes, Alice, I got the impression that a primary reason why Susan has never had a love life has to do more with her having had major responsibility for taking care of her ailing mum than anything to do with either her looks or personality. Sometimes the demands of real life can be so consuming that one doesn't have the luxury of pursuing a "personal life."

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 01:20 AM

BTW, I know full well what "MOR" means. But since when are songs from musical theatre or the pop or rock or jazz world, by definition, more "middle-of-the-road" than "traditional" or "folk" music?

FWIW, I hear the Gershwins' (and DuBose Heyward's) song "Summertime" done all the time in both folk and jazz music gatherings. That song is from a friggin' OPERA, fer cryin' out loud.

Damned pigeonholes!

Genie

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:57 AM

Diane, you are certainly entitled to choose not to waste your time on a TV show contestant singing music from a musical or a song from the pop/blues/jazz world, and far be it from me to put you down for expressing that opinion.   But may I suggest that if this subject is one you feel is a waste of time, you really don't need to spend any more time weighing in on it?

Just as the person/people who think Alice's "caption" threads are a waste of time doesn't need to open them, I'd say there are many other threads here at Mudcat that are on topics you'd probably feel are more worth your time. : )

Genie

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 09 - 12:19 AM

Ron, Hugo's Les Miserables is a monumental book, and not only were the movie versions, of necessity, "Reader's Digest Condensed" versions, I knew full well before seeing the musical that it would also be a condensation, so I had no illusions. Also, since high school, I've had classmates and, later, friends who were (are) involved in musical theater—including my neighbor immediately upstairs (not the woman who writes her own "folk songs," she lives on the top floor). So there, too, musically I knew pretty much what to expect.

Within the parameters of the possible, I think the musical was well done. Certain aspects could have been done better, but all-in-all, well done. Some parts were even better than I expected.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:45 PM

Hey..... save a few of those trinkets for me. I am sitting here on my hands waiting for my 17 year Ciara to come home from her first prom. Given the events of July 5 past, I am OK with that. Move over ..... wait ..... what the hell do you think you are going to do with that tube ...........

Mick

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:42 PM

I've reserved a spot for you Joe at the newly reopened and improved NYCFTTS!! Rest quietly now....The Insanevac Chopper is on its way and you'll soon be in the hands of the lovely Nurse Sins Ratched. I've ordered more Nose Flutes and a supply of Fleet Enemas.

Spaw---Developer and CEO of the NYCFTTS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:34 PM

Oh, Spaw, it isn't that bad. Maybe she'll do very well in the rest of the competition - but she'll never be another Julie London. And what about Diana Krall? She'll never be another Diana Krall, either. Are you going to desert Julie and Diana and run off after this upstart Susan Boyle? I dunno, Spaw. I just don't know.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:04 PM

Well dang....what a shame. Two songs and she's tapped out. No way she could possibly sing anything else............damn.......I'm really sorry to learn that......................

And here I was makin' a list of all the songs I'd love to hear her do. But I guess its over for her after coming in second to Julie London........****sigh****.................Wonder if she'd be any good on some Ethel Waters/Bessie Smith, torchy kind of stuff........nah..............maybe some jazz standards like "When Sunny Gets Blue"...............no.....no.........

She's just to MOR I guess.............................geeziz......gimmee peace........

Spaw

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:56 PM

This thread first alerted me to this video. Prejudice at firest stopped me looking at anything to do do with the 'Gots Talent' programme and their talentless panel of judgemental self seekers. However, I did succumb, and am thoroughly glad that I did. People described it as 'heart warming', and it was. And if that is sentimentalism, then I'm glad I still retain a bit of it. Some of what I've read above actually makes me nauseous. If that kind of dismissive, elitist, partial nastiness is typical of music lovers, folk or other, I'd cancel my subscription to any lists involving them now. LOOK, she sang for the joy of it, she did it well, beyond our mere critics' capabilities. Too bad she didnm't sing a Child ballad, but she sang wonderfully. If anyone doesn't see why that isn't 'folk', and wants to call it something else, that really is their problem based on ignorance, prejudice, and probaly an attack of piles. See many other threads on 'WHAT IS' type questions.
(continued on page 94)

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:48 PM

She has sung, Joe, for several of the interviews. A capella, the song she sang last Saturday.

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM

For at least 2/3 of my lifetime, Julie London's recording of "Cry Me a River" has been one of my favorites. Others have recorded it, but none could match Julie London. I admit Susan Boyle comes pretty darn close. I really like her recordings of both songs.

But there's something about this "overnight sensation" aspect of the whole thing that bothers me. When I see so many people go bonkers over a performer who has performed (now two) songs publicly, a little warning light goes on in my head*. If she has been interviewed so many times since the talent show, why hasn't she sung for some of the interviews?

Overall, I still prefer Julie London.

-Joe-


*(some may refer to it as an "idiot light")

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:28 PM

There is a clip of the Larry King interview on you tube.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:16 PM

CNN story about Susan. Take a look here, there are several photos--you'll see that she is actually quite a normal weight.

I think the podcast of the Larry King show can be downloaded, but so far my browsers are blocking it. I'll work it out, but it says the podcast is free via ITUNES.

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:09 PM

Joe, you said, 'I have to admit I like it, but I hate myself for falling for all the sentimental enthusiasm connected with the Susan Boyle performance.'

For one thing, it doesn't hurt anyone to feel happy at someone else's talent and good fortune. I don't know what sort of dismal society we must be part of when you can doubt your own good feelings. Joe, you shouldn't actually aspire to cynicism. If you really HATE yourself because this touches your heart, maybe you should figure out why. I'd think anybody who tried to make me feel bad about feeling good must be pretty pathetic.

She said it didn't make her feel bad that people had been laughing at her. She'd come to sing, and she just got on with it.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:01 PM

Joe, you must have been skipping through the thread. Listen to that "Cry Me A River" then tell us she's a flash in the pan. I know you didn't say that, but I think you'll realize this isn't just sentimentalism. It's a well-told fairy story.

Alice, thanks again for the link. I tried to find that conversation at CBS earlier and I couldn't tease it out of the web site.

Spaw and Joe, there have been discussions here on Mudcat that I have been part of that, if she joined in, I no doubt appreciated and discussed in depth things with Diane. I love some of the pointed and technically engaged conversations--I remember one where we started talking about Robin Hood and got into the lore of oak trees and all sorts of cultural markers associated with both. We were wading into academic material in depth. I don't know if she was there, but I think she'd shine on that. I resented the silly stuff that people injected because they knew how to use Google but didn't have a clue as to how to evaluate the information they found. We stumbled over those entries and either dismissed them or ignored them. I understand perfectly well the position of scholarly prowess when the occasion arises.

There is a lot of cultural literacy that can come into this discussion of this performance by Susan Boyle. I've seen some pretty silly remarks on the YouTube threads--lots of people want to say something, just because they're so happy to see this little drama unfold. It's like a wonderful short story, in which we reach a denouement in under 7 minutes. The Culture understands 1) television programs 2) Simon Cowell and 3) the underdog. There will be more out of this, but right now, a lot of people can appreciate this performance on a lot of levels.

How about wrapping this up with a little theory: Jean-François Lyotard wrote a great essay called The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge. In it, one important point he makes is about how all cultures "privilege" storytellers. Part of the problem in this thread is that the "storyteller" is not one individual, the storyteller is the television program with all of it's flaws. I think that DESPITE the "flaws" of the corporate storyteller, Susan Boyle managed to take control of the story and it had a happy ending.

Climbs down off of the stack of philosophy texts . . .

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:54 PM

It is amazing how jaded some of us seem to be. Susan has a really good voice and genuine sensitivity to the lyrics, both on this and "Cry Me A River". Even the audience and the judges, who've been harshly criticized by some of us, should be cut some slack. They all realized almost immediately that they were wrong to judge a book by the cover. She won them over almost immediately--and maybe they will remember this for the future. Even Simon's smile seemed genuine.

And I say this as one who agrees with Diane completely--(much as it pains me to agree with her on anything--I'm sure it pains her too)--- on "Les Miz", and on Webber's creations as well. For me "Les Miz" is an overripe travesty of the book, with only one worthwhile song, "Master of the House". The musical manages to be both overblown and dumbed-down.   Obviously everybody has his or her own taste. I like rock a lot and I like some operas. But the combination is a pretentious mishmash. And I have seen the show--not by choice.

I would sentence everyone who has seen the show to read the book -- (I'm surprised that Don, who has read the book, also liked the "musical")--and some would find out what they are missing.   Hugo creates a whole world which envelops the reader. I found the show tedious and unconvincing, and the rock element was jarring.

But this is totally immaterial to Susan's BGT performance. Her song really spoke to her--and she made it speak to the audience, and us, as well. She really did have a dream--and who knows, perhaps her musical dream may be realized. At least she's already proven uncounted numbers of skeptics wrong.

And I also agree with Mooh-- and maybe now even church choir singers will get a bit more respect. He's totally right that choral singing teaches you a huge amount that helps you in any singing.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:47 PM

She's on Larry King on CNN now.
Apparantly, the filming was of her audition, and Piers explained that after a full day of bad singers, there was Susan.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:45 PM

Thanks to Bobad for posting the link. I've been hearing about Susan Boyle's performance all week, and was curious to see it.

My son, who some of you have met, was on the American version of the show last year – part of a non-musical act. Some of the acts, like my son's, were invited to participate rather than coming in off the street. The acts went through a couple screening rounds before performing for the celebrity judges, so the producers knew exactly what they were before anything was recorded. I'd be surprised if the judges were told anything about the acts because part of the fun is seeing their reactions. Anyway, when the celeb judges finally showed up hours and hours of performance were recorded. All the participants signed non-disclosure agreement, were sworn to secrecy, and went home. Weeks went by while the hours and hours of recorded material was edited into storylines lasting a few minutes each. Then everyone jumped on a plane and went to Las Vegas for the finals. After a couple days of pointless milling around the producers sent a bunch of the acts home, including my son's. Apparently there were more acts put through to the finals than were actually needed to fill out the shows. The prizes on the Yank version were $1,000,000 cash and a chance to perform in a Las Vegas show.

I don't really know, but if the Brit version was produced like the Yank version then Ms Boyles' performance was recorded weeks ago.
- Phil

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:18 PM

Alice and Maggie...........

Thank you


Spaw

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:51 PM

I posted it once, also.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:45 PM

Joe,
There is... we've been discussing it.
Cry Me a River.
Posted links several times in this thread.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:42 PM

In case it hasn't been explained adequately, "MOR" means "middle of the road," which is a nice name for elevator music.

I know the posts from Diane Easby are grouchy, but I think they're legitimate. After all, Susan Boyle has generated all this enthusiasm for her performance on one song. I have to admit I like it, but I hate myself for falling for all the sentimental enthusiasm connected with the Susan Boyle performance. I think Diane has something legitimate to say, even if she can't get away from her usual nasty tone.

As for Susan Boyle, I will reserve judgment until I hear her sing a second song. I thought that by this time, there'd be a YouTube video of her singing something other than that one song from "Les Mis."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM

If this Patti LuPone and Susan Boyle conversation has already been posted, forgive me. I've lost track of all the links we've posted to this thread.

This is a video of an interview with Susan Boyle and Patti LuPone from CBS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8zLedNt98

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:03 PM

I first read Victor Hugo's Les Miserables in high school. Not in a Lit class, but in French class. We read the book first in English, then gave it a try in the original French.   I have since read it twice more (in English) for the sheer enjoyment of the story and of the writing. I have also seen two movie versions:   the 1935 version with Fredrick March as Jean Valjean and Charles Laughton as Inspector Javert (watched it in French class) and the 1998 version starring Liam Neeson (telecast). I found the 1980 musical, written by Robert Hossein, composed by Claude-Michel Schönberg, with libretto by Alain Boublil an excellent musical adaptation, and apparently others share my estimate because "Les Miz" has become one of the most popular musicals of all time.

One reveals a great deal about oneself by sticking music into various categories, then harshly judging certain categories as "middle of the road" or "music of the great unwashed," hence, totally unworthy of notice by anyone with any musical knowledge or taste—especially when one claims an interest in and knowledge of folk/traditional music, or "music of the people." Truly fascinating. Like a snake starting to eat its own tail. And then, when that person declares proudly that they listened to only three measures of a piece of music and cut it off in order to keep from polluting their minds with "that kind of schlock," methinks one then has a pretty good indication of their depth of analysis, and therefore, the value of their opinion on just about anything they care to pontificate on in the future.

A person with truly superior musical sensibilities is generally very inclusive, finding something worth listening to in almost all forms of musical expression. The person who claims "superior musical sensitivity" and then trashes just everything they hear except their own musical specialty establishes beyond all doubt that they lack any musical sensibility whatsoever.

It saves time knowing which posts one can safely skip reading.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:56 PM

I know who you are Diane we have discussed topics before.I am also certain I will enjoy your music when I hear it.I will also listen to it right through, not a few bars. I agree with you over the concept of this programme, the two presenters itching to take the piss out of everyone before they even perform. It does however throw up the good act and it helps to find those talented performers, like Susan Boyle,the dance act that was brilliant and many other previously unknown artists.
The major problem is there is little or no outlet for finding this talent apart from this type of programme. When it does throw up a brilliant performer you do at least have to give them a few minutes to see what the fuss is about. I would do the same for you Diane and be the first to write on here if I enjoyed it.
Al

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:47 PM

"I do hope she can cope with this surge of interest."

From what I've seen I feel she will be able to cope with this surge of interest unlike some of the posters to this thread.