BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:16 PM

Rich-Joy, they came to your town because their market research said that they would succeed there. And they will succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 10:46 PM

There are lots of successful strategies for upending these folks--the critcal thing is that you must be organized, and everyone must be totally committed to see it through. The true problem are the officials of one sort and another who are in the pockets of the developers, but if you root them out, the battle is much easier--your people must be committed for the long haul, though--because often, it victory comes to those who just show up--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Sadly, the town citizens thought that their town plan WAS in order : they'd held many meetings over the years to put forward their vision of what they wanted for their children and then forwarded the results to the council to be part of "The Plan".

But, all it takes are a few trusty councillors, and employees of a council (or govt dept) far away with a bigcity-culture, to be in the pocket of the developers and big business, and to then "lose" or just DELAY the paperwork and :
hey presto! legal vandalism!

So it's hard not to feel powerless against the bastardry!

We HAVE alternative places to shop - like I said, a great supermarket - AND a great Co-Op and organic greengocer etc. etc. - and the big stores are a half-hour drive away. It's NOW the problem of having the beauty and the wildlife habitats at the entrance to your town destroyed and to be "legally" replaced by people from far away with an ugly concrete block, complete with big advertising signs and water pollution and traffic jams and an eventual monopoly ...

I reckon it's makes for a healthier society for the money and goods in a town (or city) to be in many hands, not just a few (which is the ultimate aim of the Woolworths directors).

rant over - it's ANZAC Day here - and as the Maleny Protestors' banner says - "Thank You For Our Freedom : Lest We Forget"

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:55 PM

They have an excellent food co-op in Maleny - i think its businesses like that that the locals are worried about being muscled out by the big W.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM

Brucie has suggested what is basically the 'original co-op' style. Incidentally, if the cuurent local Supermarket initiated something like this, Woolies might be foreced to think twice...

The last time I was up there for your ABOFOTS, I noticed as I was drivingback, that the whole North Coast (visible fromo the mountain road) now is a sea of light. When I first started going up there in the 1970's, it was a sea of dark...

Just too many people...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Cher RJ,

I wish you all the luck in the world. You will need that and more. If, like youself, others succumb to the iniquities of mass culture cuisine and the lower prices that are available from chain retailers and the wider selection the store size permits, you have a hard row to hoe. It is, only, when a sizable number of customers elect to support their environment, at some cost to themselves, that the charm of traditional small town life can be saved. Of course, if your town is small enough, you could rally your fellow citizens to have zoning laws passed to preserve the local flavor and integraty.
What it all boils down to is democracy. By using the political and economic tools available to you in a free siciety, you can accomplish your goals. I'm a traditionalist, so I wish you the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

One of the 'answers' is as follows. Get lots of people together and purchase certain staple foods in bulk. People pay for what they order up-front, and you and your friends order by the truckload.

Certain canned foods are ubiquitous (sp?--first time I have ever had a need for that word) to regions or areas. So, buy caseloads and sell only caseloads.

Peas, beans, corn, noodles, like that. It will mean you have to buy the fresh stuff from the store, but you will be able to realize a substantial savings on things you use very frequently. I was involved with something like that years back. There are a few simple rules.

1) You want to split a case, that's up to you, not the 'co:op)
2) If you weren't at the meeting, you get what's on the list or it ain't coming
3) You pay cash, up-front, period.
4) When the order comes, you arrange to pick it up. We ain't Pizza Hut and we don't deliver.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:18 AM

Up the road in King St newtown (groovy part of Sydney, for those not from Oz) a MCDonalds set up. Now King St is the home of restaurants -you can walk up the road and by food from any country you want to name - African food, cambodian, turkish, vietnamese, tibetan, greek, Thai, lao, italian, french, mongolian, etc etc

I'm pleased to report that the McDonalds had to close down through lack of business - the competition was too stiff, and people in Newtown enjoy their food.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM

Just found this info about a similar problem in the very beautiful Kuranda, in tropical FNQ (Far North Queensland), Australia :


" Hi there,
I just thought I would make contact with your campaign to save the banks of the Obi Obi Creek from development. I strongly support your efforts and will be following the outcome with great interest. We in Kuranda are fighting simiarly a development proposal for a supermarket here. Whilst IGA has pulled out due to community opposition we will now go to the Planning and Environment Court to have the development approval thrown out. Similarly, and our main concern and campaign is against proposed development that will turn Kuranda "Village in the Rainforest" into a city of 50,000 (present population 3,000) . This is facilitated by the construction of a four lane highway through World Heritage Rainforest from near Cairns to Kuranda, a distance of 14 kilometres at a cost of $500,000,000. That's right, half a billion dollars, part of which will come out of the State budget for roads at the expense of all other needs in Queensland and destroying at least 50 hectares of World Heritage rainforest, inhabited by rare and endangered species including the Cassowary. Nothing is sacred anymore from development. "


I won't give her name as I haven't sought permission to copy this onto the Web (sorry)

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:58 AM

If Wookies is anything like the NZ variety it is like Tesco and Sainsburys here. They are locked in a battle for market share and it is looking like Tescos has won it. 1 in 8 UK pounds are spent in Tescos and to convince us that we should shop there they now sell goods that are anything but grocery. Clothes TV's Pharmacy and they have to open 24 hours and have the cafe to drag-in the unconvinced. Creches, resident chaplains, and singles evenings are the sort of thing they are trying.

Sounds a bit like a community dunnit? Where people wander round wondering at the two rows of shelves for pet food with or without herbs (Huh?) and the diminishing array of traditional fodder like jam and buscuits.

Sadly the 24 hours thing is the one facet that I have to use when I can't walk to my Co-op shop (politcally active and socially aware). I really enjoy that walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:49 AM

I s'pose, Musicmic, that considering The Mudcat Cafe is an international forum, of people who care about this planet and their society (i.e. FOLKIES!), I wanted to know if we Down Under, were alone in this problem, or, if a similar problem has occurred in other parts of the world (e.g. English village communities) and what (if any), stategies have been successful in retarding the impact of these huge monopolies in those other places.

I am certainly not against "supermarkets" - just those that are inappropriately situated and that use their money and power to smash any competition - all in the name of free enterprise! Many of us have decreed never to shop there if it takes over our town. Many of us have also decreed never to shop at another Woolworths store again - ANYWHERE!!! I'm enough of a realist to feel that I can adopt the former stance - but probably not the latter!!!!

Although - and I'm only on a SLIGHT tangent here!!! - it is that "convenience" that you mention, of the last 50-odd years of Supermarket foods, that has helped turn a large proportion of Western society into under-nourished, under-energised, yet overfed blimps - and I'm sad to count myself somewhere in those ranks!!!
Er ... anymore of those crumbled cookie crumbs left? ... what flavour are they? ... orange and macadamia! Yum! my favourite!!

Cheers!
R-J
(a She, BTW!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

musicmic

I think the point of this forum is to consult, just like on any other issue, in order to learn tactics!! that's the way things work in a free society!

best wishes

fred

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:31 AM

Of course, Rich has a right to oppose supermarkets. I just don't understand why he's opposing them in this forum. There's little we can do about it and there's so much his neighbors can do. All Rich has to do is convince enough neighbors (It doesn't even have to be a majority. He can stop the mega-merchants in their tracks. (It shoulldn't be too difficult to bring folks around to his way of thinking. He has already convinced us.)
That's the way things work in a free society. No corperation stays where it's not wanted, not because they're sensative, but because they are bottom lined oriented.
I do not patronize the neighborhood Rite Aid. I prefer the independant on the side street and I am willing to deal with the shorter business hours and limited selection to support my community.
But, obviously, there are others in East Falls who choose price and convenience over home town pride. Thus, it has always been. It is the way of the world and the crumbled cookie.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:23 AM

G'day R-J,
In Katoomba in NSW they put in a Coles/K Mart which replaced an entire block of houses, and they did exactly what you said, underpriced everyone else and drove them out of business, and now, apparently they are the most expensive Coles & K Mart in the state.
Ironically, a lot of us are hoping Woollies & Big W will lob in town soon, to provide a little competition.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:00 PM

Thanks for your comments, all.

However, I must say that many of us moved to the country to get away from the rat race of the Big City or the souless suburban sprawl and its ugly shopping complexes - WHY, Martin, should WE have to keep moving???!! It's not as if these things aren't already available to us , LESS than a half-hour drive away!! Why is it necessary to reduce beauty and serenity and uniquness to the lowest common denominator, so that everywhere is filled with the same crap?? (Once inside most shopping centres and large supermarkets, you could be anywhere in the Western world - they're all manufactured to the same formula ...)

Our town is already well serviced by many small shops AND a really GREAT supermarket, all owned and operated by people who live in the area and whose children go to the various schools in the district and who are a part of THIS Community - not some faceless Board residing down in Sydney or Melbourne! Woollies are NOT responding to a need by the population, but are just staking their claim (i.e. OUR town) for the future, against the other retail giants ...

DougR says : " If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do "
Well, I definitely don't have money to burn, but I can't believe that it should all come down to money and "cheaper goods" - quality of life and sense of Community, people having time for each other, peace and quiet, less crime and less traffic congestion, beautiful natural surroundings, proximity to wildlife, clean air : far, far, less pollution (atmospheric AND noise AND visual), a sense of space, land to grow healthy produce, - all these are important : all these AND MORE!!! And these are but some of the reasons why people give up, often high-paying, jobs in the city to move to the country.

So WHY must the city be shoved on our doorstep yet again??!!
WHY do we have to have our unique towns of great beauty homogenised into the enervating, ugly, blots of elsewhere???

(sad) Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Martin: Yep.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM

DougR

You are so, so right!

There have been other threads that have tried to knock Wal-Mart and the arguement against them is total bullshit.

I shop Wal-Mart. I pay lower prices for name brand merchandise and I like that. Spending more money on the exact same item to prove a point is not really very wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do. However, one cannot stop the world from turning. This is not the 20th Century, and as much as we might like to keep the old ways, there is little way one can stop it.

Martin offers some good advice. If you don't like the new stores, don't patronize them.

As to the snide remarks about Wal-Mart, I say, horse pucky. Wal-Mart is probably the largest employer in the U. S. next to the federal government. The people employed there need those jobs every bit as much as those earning six figure annual salaries. Also Wal-Mart contributes millions of dollars to local charities. It has become "fashionable" to bash Wal-Mart because, I suppose, they are so large and represent to the lefties all that is bad about corporations. They do far more good than harm in the communities they serve, as far as I am concerned, and they offer their customers good prices.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

They call it progress! Also it's called capitalism.

You are going to have to deal with it.

They have the right to try to do a better job than others at what they do.

If you don't like it, don't shop there. Or move.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 03:37 PM

They will suck the life out of your town, then sell the shell to some foreign investor.

Beware of no-wage jobs so that you end up supporting THEIR employess as we here in the US have to do for Maul Wart!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:37 PM

Ironically, here in the states, the Woolworth's variety store chain is completely gone--they have been completely devoured by they big discounters(first K-Mart, and then Walmart) even Woolco, which was their big discount chain, is long gone--

This is the 21st century equivalent of being invaded by the Mongol Hordes, and like the Mongol Hordes, when the tide of battle turns, they will steal off into the night, leaving nothing but rubble--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: JenEllen
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

Yeah, Rich. Put "Wal-Mart" in the search engine and see how much fun we've been having in the states. I have to side with Art. I hope you come out better than we did, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:33 AM

This has been a problem in the States for a long time. What we see now is that the large supermarkets (in my city they are Albertsons and Smith/Kroger) are being eaten by even larger supermarkets like Walmart. Some specialty stores, like butchers, still survive, as do those catering for nitch markets such as organic/"health food" groceries. Its hard to fight lower prices and a better selection of food, though.

Good luck to you, and I hope you come out better than we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:13 AM

Hi Rich-joy

what a pity to hear that Woollies has eyed off Maleny, one of the most beautiful towns in Queensland.

David Bradbury has made a documentary about a successful battle against developers in Byron Bay, information about it can be seen at:

http://www.frontlinefilms.com.au/videos/byron.htm

there is an article about the campaign here:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/14/1042520613023.html

and a here's link to the local rag, the Byron Bay Echo. They may be able to put you in email contact with the successful campaigners in Byron:

http://www.echo.net.au/


good luck and best wishes

freda

ps have some old friends in Maleny and go there every few years - I love it!

Subject: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 06:59 AM

Hi, just wondering if other 'Catters who live in RURAL areas are experiencing similar problems to my home of Maleny, SE Queensland, Australia.

A large proportion of our population wants to retain our rural charm and community values and strong local ethical economy, in preference to the big-city Woolworths Supermarket moving in and taking over everything.

The usual tactics are to build a huge concrete monstrosity and due to their corporate buying power, make food prices so cheap that the existing local small businesses can't compete. Then when these have closed down and the BigBoys have got the monopoly, UP go their prices!!!

Trouble is, these BigBullyBoys don't buy from local fresh organic growers and producers, but from a centralised point elsewhere in the nation - and neither do they support the local community in donations the way our small businesses currently do. Corporate profits also go to the directors and shareholders elsewhere and are not spent in the local area.

Despite claims of "creating employment", statistics show that more jobs are actually lost when these guys come to your town, due to the closure of other businesses : Woollies like to gain control of "The Big 3" : food, fuel, alcohol - so after establishing the Supermarket, they put in the petrol/gas bowsers, then the tavern/pub. They also, of course, cover the bakery, newsagent, greengrocer, chemist/pharmacy areas (to name just a few) within their complex.

We have just witnessed the developers moving in with the bulldozers and (illegally) destroying stands of mature trees along our river bank (homes of the birds and possums) and in the process, the habitat of the endangered Platypus - all in the name of "Progress" that WE MUST HAVE, just because it suits the Big Business Bullies to increase their power and profits in OUR town : what The Community want for themselves and their future and the town in which they live, counts for nought!!!

I have posted this email from a friend who has posted pictures and data on The Net on the battle so far :

" Hello everyone,
Please take the time to have a look at this website that I have created regarding the protest action we are undertaking here in Maleny against a supermarket development.

http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Index.htm

If you are concerned by what you see and read, please send an email of protest to those able to remedy things:
http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Residents_Info.htm
Thanks for taking the time to support my town in this action.
Regards,
Steve "


Can other 'Catters report on similar happenings in their villages and towns??? Have any of you WON battles (or the war??)

Thanks,
Cheers! R-J