BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:57 PM

Well I agree with one and two. How could I not? But on three, well we've been here before. Smart bombs. Ultra-accurate targeting. Amazing intelligence. All of which is why three hundred Palestinian kids were atomised last time Israel attacked Gaza for just a few weeks. You can walk across Gaza in three hours. Syria is not the same. We're insane, aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,💥🔥
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:53 PM

1: Corbyn did not positively persuade as many Labour MPs as he would have prefered.
2: The Labour Party conducts genuine debate on important issues openly
without the autocratic secrecy and coercion that the tories rely on internally within their party.
3: ISIS in Syria are just about to find themselves on the receiving end of targeted strikes by the RAF - The first mission has just taken off from RAF Akrotiri.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:32 PM

On the thread title:

1: Corbyn lost the vote
2: The Labour Party is seriously fractured
3: ISIS in Syria are just about to find themselves on the receiving end of targeted strikes by the RAF - The first mission has just taken off from RAF Akrotiri.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:30 PM

No , I am perfectly fine thank you , just low tolerance for rrogance. Yes, I know you don't see it , which is my point. So let us let it lay there, shall we.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:25 PM

I'd love you or anyone else to tell me what was arrogant or patronising about my 06:08 post. Whilst I don't wish to be patronising, I'd suggest that you seem to have something of a problem that you could do with getting seen to.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 07:05 PM

I don't have a bee in my bonnet. I just find you patronizing and arrogant.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:54 PM

I fail to see what I said that was patronising. It seems to me that when you're not ignoring my posts you're trying to find some way of attacking, no matter how outlandish. I expressed my opinion there without recourse to attacking anyone else. Feel free to demur. Why don't you just get that bee out of your bonnet? That was just a troll post.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:46 PM

Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring hostile thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:40 PM

Steve I sometimes wonder if you are really as lost on another planet as you appear to be ? All lives have value, don't assume that most of us think otherwise. You ought not to be so bloody patronizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:32 PM

ISIL finally showing the strain of coalition attacks: More taxes, shuttered hospitals, pay cuts for jihadis

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:08 PM

Well, had those Labour two-time losers managed to get one of their candidates elected leader, we would not have had the passionate debate in the country that has done much to raise public angst about this difficult matter. Kudos to Jeremy Corbyn, always doomed to lose this vote, for providing effective opposition to the misguided notion that we can somehow bomb a disparate and diffuse enemy out of existence. Some time in the next few weeks there may be an accidental strike that kills as many innocent people as were killed in Paris. Of course, a Syrian civilian life isn't worth the same as that of a westerner, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 06:07 PM

Hilary

I was a great admirer of your father. I don't think he would have endorsed what you said in parliament today.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 05:23 PM

Thank you Hilary Benn, what a masterful and sensible speaker.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 04:22 PM

Ah so we should pin our hopes on the Peace Talks in Vienna?? What Peace Talks? Who is ISIL's representative? (Rhetorical question ISIL are not present at these talks) Who is the Syrian Governments representative? (Rhetorical question the Syrian Government has no representation at these talks) Who represents the opposition to Assad's Government at these talks? (Rhetorical question those who oppose Assad's regime in Syria are not present at these talks)

Did Corbyn give you any hint as to how you can have meaningful peace talks when none of the combatants are present? Dave? Kampervan?

His line would appear that it is perfectly OK for the RAF to bomb ISIL in Iraq but not in Syria where those who would attack us here receive their training - ludicrous. ISIL/ISIS/IS/Daesh whatever you want to call them have no respect for any borders particularly not those separating Iraq and Syria - neither should we. Corbyn's take on things is something akin to someone trying to establish a non-pissing end in a swimming pool.

Long and short of it is that Corbyn just wants us to sit back and wait for the terrorists to attack - then they will be praised for the commitment they show to their cause by Ken Livingston.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 05:02 AM

Also, of course, if these "70,000" do defeat ISIS we can expect them to immediately splinter and start fighting each other, which isn't a promising way of stopping a civil war.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 04:47 AM

Cameron has been sitting down for talks with the King of Saudi Arabia, this remember is a country which still uses crucifixion as a form of punishment. During these talks it is hard to imaging that the words "oil", "pipeline" and "Syria" did not arise. Cameron meanwhile claims that there are 70,000 "moderate" Syrian rebel fighters active. To get anywhere near this number (and I suspect that even then you don't) this has to include al-Nusra, who eat the livers of their defeated foes live on TV, and the Turkomen group who shoot up pilots parachuting from planes. These are Cameron's supposed allies. Who is the terrorist sympathiser now? My suspicion is that under the pretext of fighting ISIS, Cameron is still pursuing his regime change agenda at the behest of the Sunni monarchies, and, as always, oil money is the driver.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 04:13 AM

I've got to agree with Dave.

What good is bombing? When the known centres of ISIS have all been obliterated, they will still be there. Spread out amongst the ordinary people, still operational, still doing their worst. What will we bomb then?

Give me Corbyn's approach any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 03:59 AM

Teribus, that is a pathetic slur. Corbyn's interest is in the safety and well-being of the people of this country. He just differs from you in how to achieve this. Having read his reasoning in the Guardian today, and listened to Cameron's deception in the commons, and his pathetic slur yesterday, would feel better and much safer in a country led by Corbyn than by Cameron.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 03:50 AM

In electing Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party the 150,000 "party members", many pitching in their £3 just to vote but having no real interest in the Party itself, the nation found itself with a political figure who it would appear will never under any circumstances do anything to defend this country, a political figure who for reasons best known to himself will always side with those who would do the population of this country harm - I think that is what Akenaton is referring to when he quite rightly rounds down on "liberal" left views and condemns them. As he obviously has no interest in looking after our nations best interest or the security of its population it is little wonder that he is subjected to "hostile" questioning.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 15 - 03:17 AM

One minute he reckons he lives in a nice lochside village and has had an idyllic Miss Marple fantasy styled existence, the next he rattles on about "housing schemes." Other than ensuring the roof leaks in the rain, what does he know?

More importantly, other than sit there agreeing with the resident Tory Terribulus on every point the fool makes, what suggestions does he have? He may as well spout them because his posts never get deleted unlike those decrying him. He just compared Richard Bridge to a child molester but his post remains. Why is that?

(Suggestions by him? Other than sneer at the very idea of equal opportunity, equal rights for all and sundry confused nonsense about his support for right wing republican extremists in The USA. The thread on Palin and Trump is weird enough but this confused old man actually likes them both..)

Meanwhile, Cameron has told would be rebel Tory MPs that they shouldn't walk through the lobby supporting a terrorist sympathiser. So much for debating whether the military can find answers to a mindset problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 08:48 PM

PFR - sadly the BBC is no so terrorised by Scumoron that it does his bidding. The once great and independent institution is no more.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 08:42 PM

Akenhateon - to your racism add ignorance. There are areas fringing Sevenoaks where the child poverty rate has recently been estimated as 34% against the national average of 18%. But in fact the relevant area I worked in was near Gravesend. It and parts of Medway are in the North Kent black spot, and not at all nice leafy suburbs.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:19 PM

Yes PFR....That must be the "honesty, equality and fair play" that the troll was on about. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:03 PM

Earlier in the day, The BBC news room had 2 weasel labour MPs in the studio to rip into Ken Livingstone and demand his resignation
while Ken was stood out shivering in the cold somewhere outside..

He defeated them on every accusation and point raised
yet they were still encouraged by the BBC presenter to attack him like ravenous hyenas intent on the kill... 😠

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:53 PM

Richard, where is this "housing estate"....Sevenoaks?

Up in Scotland, that's the sort of job they give to convicted child molesters!

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:51 PM

Yes, it should not have an apostrophe. I apologise. If that is the sum of your argument I think you may have a problem. Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:43 PM

I agree about the biased interviewing PFR.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:34 PM

Actually, for a while I collected rent in the housing estate that had the highest murder rate in the south of England. So yes, Akenhateon, I do know a bit about housing schemes.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:26 PM

I know that I have only a basic education, but I also know that "its" does not have an apostrophe.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:22 PM

Pragmatism involves choice.....the people I'm talking about simply don't have a choice, of any description.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:16 PM

"pragmatism".......now I know your fucking joking!

Where do you people actually live? have you ever BEEN in a housing scheme?

Have you ever looked up what pragmatism means? I thought I knew but, to be on the safe side, I looked it up as well. For the life of me I still can't imagine what the fuck it has got to do with housing schemes.

I suppose we should allow for senility and having fallen off roofs a few times, but some village appears to be missing it's idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:16 PM

Anybody see Hillary Benn on CH 4 news?    Snow asked him if he wasn't just positioning himself to take over the leadership....he nearly shit himself! JUDAS!!

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:09 PM

I admire Corbyn's calm polite patience and perseverance under openly hostile interrogation from BBC political interviewers..

Though he looked fairly tired and on the edge of telling that woman grilling him today
to eff off if she can't just listen to and understand what he is explaining,
and stop interrupting his answers with confrontational biased loaded questions..... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:07 PM

The vast majority of people in the UK, cant afford "honesty", have never seen or understand what equality or fair play REALLY means.

"pragmatism".......now I know your fucking joking!

Where do you people actually live? have you ever BEEN in a housing scheme?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:03 PM

Tut tut. Don't blame the puppy for shitting on the carpet.

Mudcat is obviously inclusive and equal opportunity ridden, so make allowances when the little people and their prejudice is portrayed. If he doesn't think he is embarrassing he obviously isn't embarrassed. It's bliss apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 02:42 PM

"The vast majority of people in The UK value honesty, equality, fair play and pragmatism.".......shite like that for a start!

Obviously measuring everyone else by his own standards. I find that most people in the UK do uphold these values. It is only complete knobheads who do not. Or who say that other people do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 01:29 PM

Luckily, there are almost 60 million people in The UK who have very different views to you.

In fact, up in Scotland there is a political party whose members value equality above all else. If they are really members, that is.

Sick puppy

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 11:26 AM

I never sneer, but why do I treat many "liberal" left views with contempt?.......
"The vast majority of people in The UK value honesty, equality, fair play and pragmatism.".......shite like that for a start!

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 09:59 AM

Wot he said

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 09:43 AM

If you want honesty in debate, why refer to any view other than your own as "liberal" as a sneering contempt?

Not that you are the only shallow poorly educated fool.

The vast majority of people in The UK value honesty, equality, fair play and pragmatism. The stupidity of the person above in saying "Muslims will take over" is typical of the support some prats give to terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 09:21 AM

Mr T and I approach problems from different ends of the political spectrum, but at least one thing we share, is the ability to recognise the bloody problem in the first place.

All I ask from people in debate is honesty, something which the "liberal" left treat with utter contempt.

Teribus does not suffer fools or charlatans....he has my respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 08:38 AM

Which side, Akenhateon, is "OUR side"? Your support for Terribilis makes it clear that you are not on the side of the ordinary people in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 07:19 AM

The people who compromise Mr Corbyn's views are the majority of the shadow cabinet and the other career politicians still skulking under the Labour banner.
"liberalism" is no longer relevant; in either political or social terms......time is on OUR side.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:42 AM

Those opposing Assad are now terrorists according to Comrade Akenaton.

Funnily enough, his confusion and warmongering attitude doesn't put him in the tiny minority camp as it does on other subjects.

That's what's really worrying.

If Corbyn really does want to be led by constituent opinion on all matters, he may find his own views somewhat compromised. There are more armchair warriors out there than he thinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:18 AM

If you've got a few minutes to spare, watch this.
Robertr Fisk - How ISIS threatens the world

I think that it's a very good analysis.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:09 AM

It depends what you mean by "an Islamic problem". Most Islamic scholars are united that Da'esh has got its views on Islam badly wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:05 AM

Lynn, You are correct in stating that air strikes alone will not defeat ISIS and Putin is conducting strikes against anti Assad terrorists, to free up Assad's troops for the battle to push back and eliminate ISIS

The so called "moderate" rebels are far from moderate and are an impediment to the conduct of the ground war.
Without Assad there would be no ground defence against the spread of ISIS. If the West had its way Assad would have been blown to pieces by now and Syria would be in the same state as Libya.

You seem to have a good grasp of the Syrian situation, surely you don't think that a "liberal Democratic" government could survive in that environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:59 AM

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/debate-syria-missing-syrians-151130060932842.html

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:45 AM

Gnome's magic wand suggestions are no solution at all

No magic wand suggested or even hinted at teribums. Taking a line from your mate's book, did you make that up?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:45 AM

IS/Daesh is, first and foremost, an internal islamic problem, and possibly an arab problem as well. Saudi Arabia's Wahabi strain of Sunni Islam is positively liberal compared to the daesh interpretation of the Koran. Al-Baghdadi, the Daesh 'guru' is on record as calling for the destruction of, firstly, the saudi royal family and secondly, the destruction of all Shia Moslems. Only then would it be the turn of 'the infidels'. Daesh is a Sunni organisation with former members of Saddam Hussein's general staff running the military side of the operation and they would love nothing better than the US et al sending in ground troops. Besides illegal oil sales, bank robberies, protection rackets and kidnappings, financial support apparently also comes from rich saudis who consider Saudi Arabia too liberal.

Air strikes, from whoever, will not defeat Daesh, indeed, the collateral damage is no doubt, for them, a marvellous recruiting campaign. It seems to me that 'the west' is indulging in knee-jerk actionism with no concept at all of a coherent strategy and tenable solutions. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.........Iraq 2.0(?)

@Akenaton (01.12.2015, 03:48) That, of course, is why Putin is so busy bombing various syrian rebel groups, supporting the syrian army against the rebels and undertaking next to nothing against IS.