42 days to no smoking (UK)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:18 AM

"it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on."

How did you stop your filth from drifting into the non-smoking area?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM

Who said anything about not attending folk events?
Also I never heard anything about landlords having choices!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:43 AM

No argument if it is a case of throwing the teddy out then I guess.

I will ask you to reconsider one more time, skipy. You will honestly not be missed in the big scheme of things (remember the old dip your hands in a bucket of water thing?) but you will miss the things you used to do. And why?

Like I keep saying - it is NOT a 'nanny state' thing. You have already accepted that the state HAS to intervene where things are obviously harming other people. They HAD to intervene in this case because the landlords you keep telling us would like a choice had that choice for years and years and chose not to have no smoking areas. You have said yourself it is NOT the fact that you have to leave the room. No-one is trying to force you to stop. The only reason left is the one you have admitted to - Throwing the teddy out.

If that makes you feel happier then feel free to fling old Bruin as far as you like but just accept that it is nothing but your own petulence stopping you attending meetings and folk events. Don't blame anyone or anything else.

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:23 AM

in one!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:20 AM

I still don't see the problem about going outside for your quick dose of nicotine and tar, if you're prepared to do that for a meal out. You wouldn't miss much of the meeting. But it certainly sounds as if you're throwing your teddy out of the pram and deciding to punish everyone else for the fact that legislation isn't the way you'd have liked it.

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:09 AM

Yes, everyone was happy, they chose to meet in the pub, not me, I am only a minion, so I turnup to where they say the meeting is!
Well, used to anyway.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:01 AM

I think many habitual smokers have managed to convince themselves that their habit does not actually cause discomfort to other people, and that the suggestion that they should have tried to avoid smoking in confined areas, out of regard for other people's comfort, is just a matter of busybody killjoys.

"...it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on." And of course the smoke would stay within the smoking araa, so everybody was happy...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:26 AM

Tabster, cut/scout meetings are held at a circular table on the edge of the smoking area of the pub, it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on. The Monday & Friday meetings are held in the smoking area & all four of us smoke, as the pub has a quiz every Monday & live music every Friday punters tend to come out later so the pub is virtually empty when we are in there early on.
Dave, I am sick of the nanny state, as stated most pubs could be 1/2 smoking, 1/2 non smoking.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:58 AM

Still not answered the question, skipy. In light (no pun intended) of the points I have constantly made, what is the problem?

Kampervan, Also why do I have to put up only 'No smoking' signs. Neither I nor the government allows theft, rape or firing shotguns on the premises. But I don't have to put up signs saying that its not permitted..

I think it may be because two of the other three things mentioned are illegal everywhere. Smoking is not illegal - It is only restricted. Shotguns would be a good example though as they are also restricted and, like McG, I think it would be a good protest to put up signs as suggested. You could add no farting and no bullshitting:-) I agree that the fine for not displaying the signs is ridiculous btw.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM

Skipy

Instead of withdrawing your services to the organisations that you have listed because you can't smoke in the pub where the meetings are held, why not invite all concearned to your home to hold the meetings where you can smoke away to your hearts' content?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:09 AM

I don't understand, Skipy, if you're prepared to leave restaurants in the middle of a meal for a smoke why you wouldn't be prepared to leave meetings (briefly) in the same way. Unless, of course, you're wanting to punish the whole of the community for the decision that smoking is best done out of public areas?   Can't think how it's the fault of the cubs or scouts... does this mean you used to smoke in those meetings? In which case, how inconsiderate you've been in the past, and maybe it's just as well you're moving on.

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:15 PM

well, they will have to find a non smoker! Or a smoker who is able to abstain from off smoking when that is inappropriate.

I'm not teetotal, but that doesn't mean I can't spend time in places where I can't have a drink. And I've never heard of any churchgoers who have to light up during church services.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 06:02 PM

Just a couple of brief replies, YES I HAVE LEFT RESTARUANTS to smoke between courses even though there where ashtrays on the tables but others where eating. I smoked outside our local Indian frequently before it became no smoking, with no problems.
Tonight however I signed the cheques for the staff of the Old Mill Hall for the last time, end of an era - 11 years of attending a meeting every Monday, so who is going to do it from hereon in? well they will have to find a non smoker! There should be a meeting this Friday for the events of the weekend, non smoker needed or it will not be monitored for sound, health & safety etc.
Scout meeting next week, I won't be there, cub meeting the following week, well get someone else to repair the building, because I won't be there.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM

Not a bad idea thankyou McGrath, might just try that.

Cheers
K/van

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:08 PM

"No smoking signs" are a pointless idea now. I would hope that this requirement is just a transitional thing, once the penny has dropped that all enclosed public spaces are "no smoking".

Perhaps as a way of indicating that you think it is a stupid idea you could put up a notice where "no smoking" is accompanied by a list of a range of other things that aren't permiotted either, such as the ones you mentioned, Kampervan.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:25 PM

And just for the record, we (and a lot of other people we've talked to) are far MORE likely now to go out for a social drink or meal in a pub than before (we're in Wales, which has already stopped smoking in public places). I've lost count of the number of pubs and restaurants we've left early because of the smoke. I have asthma and my husband is an actor and values his voice, and we can't be in a smoky atmosphere without consequences.
So forgive me if I can't feel too sorry for the "freedom" lost to smokers, when their "freedom" meant my dependence on having my asthma inhaler to hand. I do think we have a far more important right to breathe clean air than any right to light up a cigarette which contains all manner of toxins in addition to the tobacco.
I'm also not too sorry for drivers restricting their alcohol intake, or for drivers being persuaded that two hands on a steering wheel is generally good practice.
Now if they'd only tighten up on drivers who ignore the rules on roundabouts and motorway sliproads ...or sitting in the middle lane ...Sorry if this infringes anyone's freedom! (Actually, no, I'm not.)

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:06 PM

Dave

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I am a non-smoker and I own and manage a shop where nobody smokes, either staff or customers.

But under this new legislation I have to put up signs saying 'No smoking'

If I don't, I get fined £2000. If someone actually smokes in my shop, they get fined £50.

Duh????

Also why do I have to put up only 'No smoking' signs. Neither I nor the government allows theft, rape or firing shotguns on the premises. But I don't have to put up signs saying that its not permitted.

It's more than legislation for peoples health. We're falling prey to control freaks who don't think that anyone should do anything that THEY think is wrong or bad for us.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM

But there are a lot who are not. 6 days to go!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 12:14 PM

I have seen smokers voluntarily walk out of public places before lighting up.

Unfortunately, both of my sons smoke. One of them never lights up in a restaurant. The other, together with his partner, always leaves the restaurant between courses and goes outside to smoke. He goes out of my house to smoke although I have never asked him to.

There are some considerate smokers around.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM

I wouldn't wholly disagree with some of that skipy - separate smoking rooms mighthave been a fair exemption (though not bars - people have to work behind bars, and the smoke blows from one bar to another)   What brought about the wider indoor ban was largely the refusal of smokers to accept that smoking should only be carried out in settings where there was no imposition on other people, customers or employees, and to campaign for facilities that would permit that.

As I said, I don't think I have ever seen a cigarette smoker voluntarily walk out of a public place such as a pub or a restaurant before lighting up - be honest, have you ever done that? Let alone calling for a separate room to be provided for people wishing to smoke, to which they could take their drinks themselves. If those kind of things had been happening, I have little doubt that legislation would have been framed in such a way as to allow it to continue.

And nobody is forcing you to give up smoking, skipy. Just ensuring that other people won't have to breathe in your smoke second-hand.

I suspect that the ban is actually going to help a fair number of old pubs survive. It's the old ones with small bars which get smoked up most easily, so that just one smoker can deter any number of potential customers from even entering.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:38 AM

Ahhhh - OK. Apology accepted although none was necessary.

Bear with me on this though, please. There is so much wrong with your last paragraph, that I have addressed before, I am begining to wonder if we are speaking the same language. Please forgive any previous confusion and let me try again.

Firstly. "should have been the landlords choice to allow one smoking bar & one none". This has been the choice for as many years a I have been drinking. And that is far too many! NONE OF THE LANDLORDS IN MY AREA MADE THIS CHOICE. Every single one of the 30+ pubs in my hometown allowed smoking EVERYWHERE. The landlords and the licensed trade in general have ALWAYS had the choice to have smoking and non smoking areas. The vast majority could not be bothered which is why their hands are now being forced. Although, to be honest, without the investment in proper airflow equipment having a smoking area in a no smoking building building is like having a pissing area in a public swimming pool!

Second. "Many old pubs" are already being lost. They are closing at a rate of 50 a month. Nothing at all to do with the smoking ban. No-one can accurately predict if this will go up, down or stay the same and how, if at all, the smoking laws will affect this. Anything telling you otherwise is pure speculation.

Third. "many livelyhoods gone" is far prefereable to the alternative of many lives gone, which is what was happening when non-smoking bar staff and pub goers were forced to breath your second-hand smoke day after day.

Fourth "The facts are there to be read for Scotland" are NOT facts. Look back up the thread and you will find at least two links disputing that claim. One of which is from CAMRA - Who do you expect me to believe? The breweries who wanted me to drink Watneys Red Barrel or the most sucessful consumer rights group in the world?

Finaly, no-one at all is "pushing you to give up". Many are in fact bending over backwards to provide you areas and shelters where you can smoke in a warm and dry environment with like mided individuals, without inflicting your waste products on others. How is this forcing you to give up?

So, one last time. Where is your problem?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:06 AM

Not a threat Dave, I went off on one because I though that was what meant, I'm in the wrong, so sorry.
It's the way that this law has been put in place & not thought out, there is plenty of room for smokers & non smokers to live side by side, should have been the landlords choice to allow one smoking bar & one none. Many old pubs will be lost to this, many livelyhoods gone, most bar staff work because they have too & loads will be laid off. The facts are there to be read for Scotland. We will lose sing, music & dance venues, leaving only the food & sport pubs belonging to the big chains. There is no way that they will let a load of "aging hippies" in with their beards & wierd instruments to sing about sheep shearing!
It is also about informed choice, I am well aware that smoking will kill me! But I will not be pushed into giving up by Blair or any of his cronnies! Just for the record I would not be pushed by the far right either!
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:52 AM

There is no veiled insinuation at all. How on earth could you arive at that conclusion? I am trying to establish where your draw the line between good and bad government intervention. If you believe otherwise then please feel free to continue your threatened course of action. I await your official invitation to attend the law courts. Where, of course, smoking is not allowed:-)

Now, go and have another cigarette to calm yourself and answer what I thought were very relevent questions.

If you have no issues with stopping people smoking in public places then why are you making such a fuss about it?

If you believe that the government should not pass laws for the greater good of the people then would you be willing to live in a completely lawless society?

What is the problem?

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM

"yet I have seen no evidence that you take exception to laws banning paedophilia and rape?"
Your veiled insinuation that I am a condoner of or in someway involved in the above.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:12 AM

I am well aware of the laws of libel, skipy, which is why I have made no attempt whatever to defame anyone. I was only going to ask the one question but I am now forced to ask another. What on earth are you on about?


Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM

Mr Polshaw I hereby refer you to the laws of libel, which I am prefered to use if persist.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:19 AM

yawn

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 08:23 AM

I've been away with no online acces for a week - Very nice it was too:-) Good to see the old chestnuts are still being floated by you skipy.

Can I ask you what the problem realy is? You say that you have no issues with stopping people smoking inside public buildings yet you are still ranting about it. You say you take exception to the government deciding what you should do yet I have seen no evidence that you take exception to laws banning paedophilia and rape?

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 10:45 PM

After the no smoking went into effect here, there were tv ads of real waitresses who work in restaurants and bars who thanked people for not smoking, telling their story of how they were moms, how they had to breathe smoke all day on the job and now felt healthier because of the non smoking environment.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM

Amazing

Went to the bowling Alley today with family.

They had progressively reduced the areas you can smoke in since February. The only place left was a part of the bar, which was due to be smoke free on July 1st.

However, the smoke and smell was so bad from the smokers, they brought it forward a couple of weeks abd banned smoking completely.

The staff were so glad.

Lots of people were there including families with children. It was so pleasant.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 07:00 AM

Don't worry Rog ... There is a lot lot more to Mudcat than people realise at first. Thats what makes the place so fascinating.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:18 AM

Ah! Ther tiz.

Thank you nutty, I'm a relatively knew boy learning the ropes.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 04:18 PM

Are you looking in the right place Rog.

You will find 'Mudcat Midis' under 'Quick Links' at the top of the page.

OR ....

CLICK HERE


AND SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 02:55 PM

If there is Nuuty, I can't find it.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 01:44 PM

Gravelly voice and smoker's cough helps with the delivery of the song, yes! The first 2 lines are in fact a rather punctuated major scale upwards, but listen to the midi.
I seem to remember the song was often requested on "Children's Favourites" maybe by parents who didn't want their kids to start, or maybe even by kids who'd already started too early?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:16 AM

Apparently a Mucdat Midi of the song is available under the Title ...MY LAST CIGARETTE

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM

Yes "My Last Cigarette" was recorded (I think) by Sheila Hancock.

I still have the single somewhere ... it was bought for me by my parents as a hint to give up smoking. I did manage to ..... 30 years later.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 06:15 AM

and do you have to have a gravelly voice and cough?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 04:16 AM

Is there a tune for 'My Last Cigarette?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncle Boko
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 03:57 AM

8 days to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 03:06 AM

So this is the burning question?



I'll get me coat.........

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 07:06 PM

Copied from a previous thread, started in Jan 2000:

My Last Cigarette

[A]Tobacco, Tobacco I [D]hate you I do
Like [E] Tarzan I'd look if it [A]wasn't for you
But I'll give up the habit I[D]will even yet
When I've [E]had just one more cigar[A]ette.[E7]
It[A]wasn't the whisky, it [E]wasn't the wine
That [D]made such a wreck of this [A]body of mine
But I'll give up the habit I [E]will even yet
When I've had just one more cigar[A]ette.

Under my eyes are a couple of bags
I blame it all on to a packet of fags
But I'll give up the habit I will even yet
When I've had just one more cigarette
My teeth are all yellow and so is my tongue
I breathe through a kipper I call it a lung
But I'll give up the habit I will even yet
When I've had just one more cigarette

Nail in my coffin so pale and so thin
I am a fool to keep driving you in
You say thet you'll kill me how much do you bet
When I've had just one more cigarette
I'll fling the packet away, away
Fifty times in a week I say
Fling the packet away away
When I've had just one more cigarette.

I remember this song being popular in my teenager-hood in the 1960s, probably when I first tried the weed. (Since gave it up 30 years ago). The song still seems very contemporary!
What I didn't know until I looked it up just now, was that it was written by Sydney Carter: he who wrote "Lord of the Dance" and "John Ball". He lived to the age of 88, but don't know if he was smoking then.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM

I'm interested in knowing 42 days after the rule takes effect how things will be. Please update us then!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Spidey Bobe
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM

9 days to go!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:32 PM

Not yet

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 04:54 PM

Smoking is not banned. People are still going to be allowed to buy as much tobacco as they like, and to smoke it till it comes out of their ears. Just not in pubs and restaurants and so forth.

In other words they will still be free to behave in a way that any smoker with elementary good manners would have been doing all along - going outside to smoke rather than impose their smoking on other people.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:32 PM

Smoking banned, thank God.

Now can we move on to alcohol. people killing themselves slowly (or quickly), making a noise in the street and spoiling our right to a quiet life.

And casinos and slot machines, don't forget them, parents leaving their children alone while they go out and gamble away all of their money in the hope of a quick win.

And horse racing, yes horse racing. Cruel to the horses and encourages gambling. (See comments on slot machines)

Now then, what about cars. They've all got to be fitted with automatic controls so that we don't get too close to the car in front, so that the wipers come on automatically when it rains; in fact, the driver shouldn't actually have to do ANYTHING.

Finally DNA testing at birth, keep your profile on record, just in case you ever drop a crumb in the street, and the chip implant in your head so they can track your movements and prove where you were and know where to find you.

What a wonderful world.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:04 PM

Skipy

I couldn't find anything suggesting that the Government is going to ban smoking while driving a private vehicle, although the Department for Transport has recently consulted on proposed restrictions on smoking on seagoing and inland waterway vessels.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonvessels/


Kitty

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:01 PM

Did it blow smoke rings?

Villan - sounds like you might be trying to lower the tone around here :-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Ringo
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:15 AM

I had a ring that smoked ...




(I'll get my coat!)