BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:20 PM

And what is this overwhelming emotional investment you have, Carol, it appears uniquely, in Islam — so that you feel impelled to leap to its defence if anyone so much as hints at any sort of criticism of the conduct of any of its members, or at any inconsistency in its world view, or any sort of misconduct or misgovernment in any of the countries where it predominates, or any attitude of any of its members inimical to the welfare of any of the adoptive countries in which they have opted to live? What exactly gives here? What is this peculiar relationship you have with this particular faith? And why?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:11 PM

Carol
If anybody says anything out of place to your viewpoint, you think they are rascist.
Grow up and get a life FFS

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:32 PM

But, Lizzy, you only seem to care about those kinds of atrocities when they are committed by Muslims. That is what makes you look like a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:17 PM

"CarolC has compared some of the views expressed on this thread (and there have been others in the past) to those of far-right groups like the BNP. I am always amused to see the knee-jerk, "I'm not racist, but..." arguments borne of red-top politics and white-eyed paranoia that we see on Mudcat. My favourite might be "If you don't like the way we do things here, leave." <<<<<

Sorry, but if I went to live in France, or Saudi, I'd not expect the local population to appreciate, or alter their way of life to suit my vision of how their country should be. I'd not demand that churches were built in Saudi, purely so I could worship there.

Years back, as I recall...Laings (the building firm) built the mosque in Regent's Park. Now, I may be wrong here, but....as I remember, the deal with King Faisal was that Laings would build the mosque over here and...the British would build a church over in Saudi...again, built by Laings.

One building was built.

Guess which one?

My friend's father worked for Laings in those days, in fact was one of the Chief Executives. He's no longer alive, so I can't double check the facts on it, but...having just googled, it seems that even to this day, there are no churches in Saudi Arabia, although apparently, they have been in contact with the Pope, with regards to building a church, but he has to recognise Mohammed first.

Don't get me wrong....I happen to love mosques, find them incredibly beautiful buildings, and often I'd drive past the Regent's Park one, on the way to The Wellington Hospital, to see our patients...There was always a huge gathering of people outside, often spilling out onto the road, stalls around to buy things...I'd sit and stare out the window, loving the beauty of that building...but the taxi drivers used to growl and mutter about how if they were selling things like that, crowds on the road in a busy place, the police would nab them good and proper...

If people come to my house, then I expect them to be pleasant and polite...and...mostly to come to my house because they like me, or love me.   I feel that way when I go to the houses of others.

The British, particularly the English, have surrendered way too much of ourselves....not only in walking away from our traditions deliberately, but also in giving in to politicial correctness and the fear of being called 'You f*cking racist!" if they dare to stand up and say that they feel like strangers in their own land at times, because their heritage is slipping away so damn fast...

I'm all for everyone keeping their traditions, the things they love about their own countries, and I'm sure I'd still make roast beef and yorkshire puddings wherever I chose to live, but I'd always respect the beliefs, laws and traditions of the country I'd chosen to live in..and if they had traditions that made my stomach churn, then I'd leave.


The English are getting angry...very angry, because for way too long they've been bullied and harrassed into feeling bad about themselves. They've had 'You Slave Trading Bastards!" imprinted on their brains for way too long, whilst having all that is good, decent and bloody wonderful about their country denied them....

Over and over we get The British Empire hurled at us, the Slave Trade...but what of the Good?

I don't feel guilty about being English. I LOVE being English, but I sure as hell am fed up with people who want to put my country down, or tell me that I have no right to my memories of England (are you listening, Joan) and that those memories are racist because they don't include The Notting Hill Carnival, but do include cricket being played upon the village green, whilst the church bells rang out in the background!

Those memories sit right beside darker ones of The Miners Strike and the hatred which has never left so many people, which divided this once proud and beautiful land..

I will never be bullied into apologisiing for my feelings about being English, no matter what lies are hurled at me, because I know that I am NOT racist...and that...at the end of the day, is all that matters, because I really couldn't give a flying Chicken Korma about what other people think of me.

I respect others, I simply expect others to respect me..and that goes for their countries and mine too.

I am shit fed up with Extremists though, particularly those who use Allah and the peaceful religion of Islam to abuse, to murder, to kill, to torture, to rape, to stone, to remove hands, to remove heads and..to remove hearts, because they are nowt but a bunch of lily livered bullies who have ruled their worlds for way too long, and no way are they going to start ruling mine.

So call me whatever you want to, but I am no bloody hypocrite and I will never join Folk Against Facism whilst it is run by a person who has gone out of her way to try to get others to hate me, who has spread malicious lies about me, even saying that she would buy anyone a drink who managed to pour a drink over me at Sidmouth.

That is the talk of bullies...and a racist speaks exactly that same language.

So fuck that for a game of soldiers...

And getting back to soldiers....I may not agree with this war, but I know how deep grief can be, and for this unfeeling, manipulative prat to use the grief of the town of Wooton Bassett and the far deeper grief of the relatives of all those soldiers who have died, often when they've been trying to HELP his people, makes me bloody angry! As do others, who, again in the name of Allah, seek to murder innocents and bring this world to a standstill in a way that has never been known before...and the longer we keep our eyes closed and our voices silent, the more shit we will be surrounded by, to the point where we will have no freedom at all.

Already we are watched, monitored and now to be scanned, almost to the point of nakedness at airports...because no-one has had the guts to stand up to the Politically Correct Emperors who rule this world with their blinkered vision and unjoined up thinking which has led us to The Land of Exploding Underpants!   

Gawd, it's almost become like a Monty Python Movie!

And the one thing that used to be uppermost in my mind, when I sat in those taxis going past the Regent's Park Mosque, was how lucky I was to live in a land where all religions are allowed to be worshipped openly without fear of recrimination, imprisonment or violence.

I still think that...and I also think that the Saudis, and Islam itself, has a great deal to learn from such an incredibly tolerant and welcoming country such as my own one.

But I also feel, very much, as I stated above, that if you don't like my country, then don't cause trouble in it, or put it down...just quietly bugger off out of it, to a land where you will feel happy.

Anyways up, I'm just off to eat a Flying Chicken Korma now...whilst some of you fall over sideways in rage, or spend hours searching the internet for 'facts' to lambast with me with...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 12:49 PM

Just in case anyone thinks my last couple of posts above make even less sense than I usually do, they were in response to a 'Guest' poster whose comments have been removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 08:31 AM

I see that GUEST has done a bit of research on me in the mudcat annals in a desperate attempt to find some clue as to who I am.

Dublin, Tralee, the Midlands, London and the Band "The sisters of Murphy" ... all mentioned in my posting history, but none of them giving you any clue about who I am.

At least try to find out what songs the sisters of murphy used to sing.

A good place to start would be to ask me ... I sang them.

And by the way, you really need to learn the Lingo a bit better if you are going to pretend to be able to speak it.

No Irish man has ever "craiced" or claimed to have "craiced"

Your posturing as an Irishman is so utterly unconvincing as to be completely laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 07:46 AM

And I'm Norma Waterson's washing-up bowl

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 07:36 AM

But the 'British' culture you want, dear BNP troll, is not one most people in here would endorse.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:42 AM

CarolC has compared some of the views expressed on this thread (and there have been others in the past) to those of far-right groups like the BNP. I am always amused to see the knee-jerk, "I'm not racist, but..." arguments borne of red-top politics and white-eyed paranoia that we see on Mudcat. My favourite might be "If you don't like the way we do things here, leave."

A friend posted me Facebook group today which has links to the English Defense League. Yes, they are racist. Yes, their politics are of the far right. Yes, they reflect a lot of what gets said here at Mudcat.

You who espouse this nonsense, have a look at this group. See whether the politics they espouse differ so very much from your own.

This is England? This is racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:19 AM

You just can't give anyone a bit of stick these days without being PC.

Our guest is evidently quite a comedian.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 08:22 PM

I do not like people coming into it and showing disrespect that is all any of us are saying.

Where did he come from?

Actually he was born in Welling, London. He is a publicity seeker. Muslims condemn him too.

And Ruth is right. Ask Iany Irish people you know who came over in the 40's and 50's about the prejudice the Irish (who historically are by far the largest immigrants into the UK) received when they came over to build our roads and country after World War Two. Both because of their nationality and their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 08:15 PM

And Merle has conveniently forgotten what was done to those who were living here in what is now the US before his European ancestors arrived. He's not really in a position to be singing songs about respecting the cultures of those who were here before.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 08:11 PM

Well then get to work, Paddy. Convince your government to leave other peoples' countries alone. Because that's the only way to keep other people from fleeing to your country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 07:45 PM

CarolC. Britain is a small island. I respect the law and the traditions of this great nation. I do not like people coming into it and showing disrespect that is all any of us are saying.

What will be next, a protest at the Cenotaph on Armistice day ?

I think Merle Haggard summed it up well (Also proformed by "The Sisters of Murphy".

I hear people talking bad about the way they have to live here in this country.
                                                                  
Harpin' on the wars we fight gripin' 'bout the way things ought to be.
                                                                  
I don't mind them switchin' sides and standin' up for things they beleive in,
                           
When they're runnin' down our country man,
                                       
They're walkin' on The Fightin' side Of Me.            
                                             
Runnin' down a way of life our fightin' men have fought and died to keep,
      
If you don't love it, leave it,
                           
Let this song that I'm singin' be a warnin',
            
When you're runnin' down our country
You're walkin' on The Fightin' Side Of Me.


They love our milk and honey but they preach about some other way of livin'.


We love our country CarolC, nothing else.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 07:00 PM

Ok, I've had a look. I vehemently disagree with his agenda, but I find the kind of attitude displayed by a lot of people in this thread to be no better than what I've read coming from him. Pot and kettle.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:51 PM

I'll have a look, Smedley. Are there any in particular that you think I should see?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:41 PM

Is it just me that can see the irony in an Irishman, whose people were demonised and vilified within England (particularly in certain cities after particular episodes of bombing) because of the actions of a few extremist terrorists, and who only a few decades ago were greeted in English pubs and boarding houses with signs reading "no Irish, no blacks, no dogs", can hearken back to the "British way of life" he misses and was proud of?

Hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:40 PM

CarolC, it might be useful if you looked online for some of statements and arguments emanating from Choudary on other issues and at other times. To anyone who has looked at or listened to debates in the UK media in the past couple of years, he is well-known as a seasoned 'agent provocateur' who studiously seeks to occupy positions that are guaranteed to enrage the majority of Brits.

I do not dispute that such rage often and quickly manifests itself in rhetoric that comes close to or actively adheres to reactionary & xenophobic thinking. This is what Choudary sets out to achieve. Have a look at some of his other interventions and tell me what you think.

There are many ways of expressing opposition to UK/US policy without voicing Choudary's standpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:35 PM

When people flee for their lives to other countries because war has overtaken their own countries, the last thing anyone should expect them to do is to give up entirely the traditions they had in their home countries. Of course they shouldn't be allowed to continue any traditions that are against the law in their adopted country, but whatever traditions they can keep are a blessing for people who have lost everything. It's cruel to expect them to give up their culture in order to fit in. As I said before, if your government is going to go into other countries and make it difficult for people to continue living in those places, the people of your country really don't have a right to criticize those who find refuge from your government in your own country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

No CarolC I am not a supporter/member of the BNP, You listen to what Lox says ? well you are the only one. He calls everyone a BNP member if they disagree with him here. CarolC, I am British and I respect Islamic traditions (in their own countries) all I ask is they respect mine. The British way of life is/was something I was proud of.

I was born in Dublin (father from Tralee) I moved to the midlands of England as a child, I now live in London. It's a mess CarlC, a mess. All I want is the values I grew up with respected. I want those nights when we played in Manchester bars and craiced with everyone, black,white,yellow, green and orange. You just can't give anyone a bit of stick these days without being PC.

CarolC, Britain isn't a country I know anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:10 PM

By the way, Paddy, I am assuming that Lox is correct when he says you are BNP. You should know that you don't help your cause by spreading hatred of Muslims. You're playing right into the hands of your government, who want nothing more than a good excuse to continue their imperialist agenda in the Middle East. As long as countries like yours and mine are in the Middle East making the lives of the people there miserable, they will continue to seek refuge in our countries in ever greater numbers. Time to get to work on your government, Lad! Tell them to end the imperialism.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:58 PM

Paddy, as I said before, they've fled to your country because your government has made their lives a bloody hell in their own countries. If you want to get them to stop fleeing you your country, you need to start putting some serious pressure on your government to get the hell out of their countries and stop killing their women and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:56 PM

Hannity doesn't give a shit about the women of Iran. All he cares about is softening up the people of the US to support a US attack on that country. That's what he does for a living. He shills for the military industrial complex. Ask the women of Iran how they feel about that prospect. They'll tell you they don't want the US to attack Iran.

In the last few years, stonings of men have overtaken those of women in Iran. We don't know the air date of that video you posted a link to, but it's not true that eight women have been stoned to death in the last year, so it has to be old footage.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:51 PM

CarolC, I never read such rantings in my life. If they love their country and it's traditions so much why live in Britain, it's not a Muslim country ?

You are a fine person, but my dear you really need to open your eyes to reality and see around a few more corners. Also, to say Lox has "credibility" well it gives us all something to laugh at tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:42 PM

Well, Villan, given the amount of actual information that has been provided here in this thread, versus the amount of what looks like racist vitriol, I don't think it's gullibility on my part to take Mr. Choudary at his word. I mean really... who would I be more inclined to believe - people who sound like foot soldiers for the BNP, or someone who has articulated a position without resorting to any racist or hateful sounding vitriol? The answer looks pretty clear to me.

Lox and Peter K get the benefit of the doubt from me, but most most of the other people in the thread sound far less reasonable than Mr. Choudary.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:34 PM

>>>>Lizzie, it's also incredibly rare for women to be stoned in Iran.<<<<


If you say so, Carol....


...except Amnesty International know there have been 8 women and one man stoned last year.....

So that's nearly one a month...and that's only the ones they KNOW about.

And if you google it, you can find it all online.......here

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:05 PM

CarolC
>>And then he continues to say in various ways, that the purpose of the march is to highlight the plight of the people in Afghanistan, including large numbers of women and children who are being killed and maimed by UK and US military forces.<<

Are you that gullable.

He is stirring the shit and the quicker they get him and his cronies out of the Uk the better for all Muslims in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 04:36 PM

Lox, I am willing to consider your argument. You have a lot of credibility on the issue of human rights as far as I am concerned. But the argument you made is not the arguments I see being articulated by most of the people in this thread. The arguments I see being articulated by most people in this thread is that Muslims have no place in the UK if they try to exercise their right to protest. Most of the arguments I'm seeing on this thread don't look a whole lot different to me than those one would find coming from the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 04:30 PM

John from Kemsing, going to Afghanistan to protest won't do anything to stop women and children being killed by UK and US forces there. There is nothing Mr. Choudary can do in Afghanistan to bring to an end the military occupation of that country by the UK and US, or the killing of innocent women and children there by your government and mine. Bringing their plight to the attention of the people of the UK, can have an effect in the UK, because if enough public pressure is applied to the government in the UK, it will have to end its military occupation of Afghanistan. Is there some reason why this form of protest is incompatible with the culture of the UK? Is it un-British to be against letting your government carry on wars and military occupations in other peoples' countries? Are you telling me that you think your country has a right to do whatever it wants on other peoples' countries, and that it is un-British to express disagreement with this concept? If so, I find that a bit strange given the amount of abuse people in the US get from people in the UK about our invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Or are you telling me that protest is an acceptable form of discourse in the UK, but only when it is practiced by people who are not Muslim?


Dr.Quelch, is it also murder when Hindus do it, or is it only murder when Muslims do it?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 04:13 PM

Carol,

I think it is important to make a distinction in this case between two independant but significant factors.

1. The protest that has been proposed, on paper, represents legitimate viewpoints that are supportable.

With that in mind, there is no reason why anyone should have a problem with the March that Chaudhary is trying to organiize.


2. However, There are some pretty objectionable characters in politics who have the intelligence and talent for spin to justify their actions using apparently reasonable arguments.

In Britain, Nick Griffin and his cronies, including the BNP trolls (troll) who inhabit tha mudcat sewers, have a talent for pretending to have a caring rational motive for their thinking.


In the case of Chaudary, while I see that his protest is on paper a legitimate one, I believe he and his followers to be trolls of a different sort.

Rather than lying in wait under virtual bridges for unsuspecting internet forum users to pass by before provoing them, Chaudary goes to sensitive places with a deliberate aim of causing 'controversy'.

His protest will not have the result he claims to seek, but will instead turn British nationals against him.

The families of the dead will not listen to a man who 'appears' to be mocking their dead sons.

A cleverer campaigner would have thought of a better strategy ... unless his intent was to deliberately provoke and hurt.

I may be wrong, but that is my feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:40 PM

No, CarolC, Bonzo's idiotic comment does not represent a British sensibility. I cannot, as a British contributor, imagine what point Mr 3-legs imagined himself to be making; &, on behalf of all right-thinking Youkayers, I disassociate myself absolutely from its patronising, sexist tone (the only sense I can make of it is as some sort of variant of "Kinder, Kirche, Küche & don't worry your pretty little head over such matters!").

Not for the first time I find myself in the main in disagreement with you over many of the points you make; but I would not dream of responding in such irrelevant and unworthy terms as that.

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,Dr.Quelch
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:39 PM

Good Morning Class. Are you all sitting comfortably? Good. Then here is the first lesson in euphemism.
You may take notes.

"Honour killing = Murder"
Did you miss that Jones Minor? Then pay attention.

"Honour Killing = Murder"

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:30 PM

Carol,
       If Mr. Choudary and his ilk are really serious about "preventing oppression and injustice to their brothers and sisters" then they should hot foot it to Afghanistan or Pakistan and present their petition and demonstration there advising the offenders that they will continue to march and even stamp their feet until they get their way. That should put the wind up the Taliban!.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:07 PM

CarolC, do you not have some knitting to do or cakes to make perhaps? That would focus your mind on more useful things.

Mr. 3legs, I find it incredibly telling that you would consider it more useful to focus one's mind on knitting or cakes than on standing up for oppressed minorities. Is that a particularly British sensibility or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 03:00 PM

Over to you, Carol

I disagree with your prime minister.

Mr. Choudary said that it's the duty of Muslims to "stand together to prevent oppression and injustice to our brothers and sisters (in Afghanistan)"

-and-

"This is a procession that will highlight what is going on there and the real costs of the war."

And then he continues to say in various ways, that the purpose of the march is to highlight the plight of the people in Afghanistan, including large numbers of women and children who are being killed and maimed by UK and US military forces.

Please explain to me how these sentiments are contrary or foreign to UK culture and UK sensibilities, and please explain to me how moving to another country would provide him with a better way to correct the problems he is trying to bring to the attention of the people of the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 02:35 PM

Lizzie, it's also incredibly rare for women to be stoned in Iran.


Keith, the article you posted says this:

"This crime genre transcends every nationality, religious faith or group, nor is it unique to the UK, every country in the world has honour-based violence..."

So why did you think you needed to bring up the subject on a thread that is specifically about Muslims? What it looks like is that you are only using the issue as an excuse to spread more hatred towards Muslims. Do you only care about crimes like these when they are committed by Muslims? Do you not care about the victims if their murderers are not Muslim?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 11:58 AM

Yes, I believe the phrase 'so-called' is inserted by the media in order to emphasise that there is NO true honour involved in this kind of barbaric act.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 11:50 AM

The BBC and others refer to "so called honour killings" to distance themselves from the concept.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 10:47 AM

Anjem Choudary is what we here would term a troll. Unfortunately the media, as we do here - myself included - has taken the bait and pandered to the sad little man's need for attention. Fortunately, as is always the case with the media, his glory will be very short lived.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 10:46 AM

Thank you Lizzie. I see you have searched for "honour killings" rather than specifically muslim honour killings. I haven't gone through all those results you turned up on Google, but you need to keep in mind that the term "honour killing" is aometimes bandied around in the news media where it was never advanced as a motive by the police.

In the Arshad case for instance (one of the first in your Google link) was described by the BBC as a "so-called honour killing" - perhaps because of the catchpenny title they used for a documentary about the case. The honour-killing theory was, as far as I know, never presented in court but was subsequently speculated as a possible motive by police involved in the case. The prosecution presented jealousy as the most likely motive. None of which diminishes the monstrosity of that particular crime, needless to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 10:18 AM

Here you go, Peter, a few links you may like to look at.....

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

CarolC, do you not have some knitting to do or cakes to make perhaps? That would focus your mind on more useful things.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 09:04 AM

Perhaps Paddy Garvey could provide links to those Muslim honour killings that are "not uncommon" around Manchester?

The women called me 'Habibi' Oh dear Lizzie, I had assumed from your Mudcat name that you were female. (Or perhaps you misheard and they were actually saying "Habibati"?)

CarolC, women have generally been more exposed to western values in Iran than in some other Islamic societies, but even so I would be cautious about generalising. As one of your posts make clear, you are aware that there is a significant gulf between metropolitan Tehran and the rural provinces. I will respond to your direct question by PM.)

Lizzie Cornish, if it's Iran you were talking about, stonings are extremely rare whether of men or women, largely for the reason provided by CarolC.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 08:50 AM

"There was also opposition from local Muslims in Wiltshire, with the Wiltshire Islamic Cultural Centre asking the police not to allow a planned march through Wootton Bassett to go ahead."

And that is what we ALL need to hear...so well done to the WICC.





"Mr Choudary said he would cancel the march if the Prime Minister accepted an offer to a televised debate with banned extremist Omar Bakri.

Mr Bakri, living in exile in the Lebanon, has branded British troops 'murderers' and said there was strong support for the march to go ahead.

Mr Choudary said: "If he agrees to that I will cancel the procession. Mr Brown can do it in TV studios in Britain to speak to Bakri in Beirut. If he really believes this is about the freedom of democracy he can have a debate about it."

I think the words 'emotional blackmail' come to mind there....which is the polite version of how his words make me feel...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lox
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 07:03 AM

Thanks for that balanced post Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:11 AM

"incredibly rare for men to be stoned".... you should have seen me and Murdoch at our last home rehearsal... <<<

LOL, Ron. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:10 AM

terrorists come in all shapes and sizes,a little while ago the IRA and the UVF were called terrorists,as were the Tamil Tigers,neither of these three groups are muslims.
some people think that the American government are terrorists,they have certainly killed a lot of innocent peopler in pursuit of their aims.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:01 AM

"incredibly rare for men to be stoned".... you should have seen me and Murdoch at our last home rehearsal...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:55 AM

There is a picture in the press today of Muslims at yesterday's repatration at Wooton Bassett.
They are a couple who live there, and they have joined their fellow residents in paying respect at several previous repatriations.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 05:50 AM

Here we go, found the right link to it...

Gordon Brown criticizing these plans...

"I don't think there is any public support for Wootton Bassett to be abused in this way..."


Gordon Brown on Wootton Bassett - Youtube

For once, I agree with our Prime Minister...and having just listened to the prat on the other video I posted above, may I politely suggest that he, and all his followers, leave this country, as they obviously seem to hate us so much and go shack up with Bin Laden, for whom he has so much respect.

Thank you.

Over to you, Carol