BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:22 PM

Yes, as has been said before, I think they could very well be selling newspapers. We just don't know at this point.

I think it will be interesting to read the timeline, especially the details regarding the times of grounding, assessment of damage, listing (including rate), call to abandon, etc.

I've been on the bridge of passenger/vehicle ferries many times and I was fascinated by the communication between the captain and crew. All business. The very first time, after leaving dock in an ice breaking class ferry in February, the first mate said to the captain that a crew member tending the bow visor said he could not set some of the dogs fully (no need to explain) and that he would do it upon far shore arrival. The captain said, "Set all dogs within thirty minutes. Report when done. Report to the bridge." He turned to us and said, "As soon as the dogs are set, please leave the bridge." Took about twenty minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:02 PM

He's responsible even if he's innocent.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 01:55 PM

Costa Cruise Line is part of the Carnival group, which has 49 percent of the worldwide cruise market. The Company has dual registry, UK and USA.
Holdings:
Aida Cruises, Germany
Carnival Cruise Lines, USA
Costa, Italy
Cunard, UK
Holland America Line, USA
Ibero, Spain
P & O Cruises, UK
P & O Cruises Australia
Princess Cruises, USA
Seabourn, USA

Carnival stock dropped ca. 16 percent . following the accident. On the USA market, the stock is trading at ca. $31, down from its high of ca. 47.50.

"Rescue" suspended again, salvage contracts being let.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 10:41 AM

Here's another report on Dominica Cermontan who among her many skills is also reported to be a ballerina:

CHISINAU — A young mystery woman named as a key witness over the role of the captain in the crash of the Italian cruise ship Costa Concordia has strongly defended Francesco Schettino's actions, saying he saved thousands of lives.

Blonde ballerina Domnica Cemortan, who has dual Moldovan and Romanian citizenship, was reportedly on the bridge of the cruise ship when the 114,500 tonne ship ran into rocks six days ago.

But the 25-year-old said on Thursday she was dining with friends at the time of the disaster and denied that the captain was also having drinks on deck.

REUTERS/Stringer

Man overboard: Costa Concordia Captain Francesco Schettino is being blamed by his employer for risking the lives of more than 4,200 passengers and crew in a reckless display of bravado.

"[Capt. Schettino] is one of the best captains in the company. He is very skillful and experienced when it comes to manoeuvring the ship in enclosed spaces, like harbours," Ms. Cemortan told the Telegraph.

"The charges you hear about the captain today are absurd," Ms. Cemortan told AFP in the Moldovan capital Chisinau.

"The Costa Concordia captain is the best one in the company. He did everything right and saved people's lives. He is a hero. All the crew members worked in a professional manner and saved lives."

Italian media on Thursday reported that investigators wanted to interview Ms. Cemortan because she had said she was with Schettino when the Costa Concordia ran aground off the Tuscan coast on Friday, had also gone upstairs to the captain's deck.

Maybe the media and the Italian Coast Guard are being too hard on this captain.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 09:32 AM

The timeline for the captain's whereabouts is somewhat array. He has described how he tripped and fell into a lifeboat, along with his 1st and 2nd officers, some time after 10 pm, and spent an hour there trying to get the lifeboat down to the water.

Dominica Cermontan, the lovely young Moldovan staffer who shared dinner with the captain prior to the accident, has defended him quite strongly and has said that after the accident she was called to the bridge by the captain to communicate better with the Russian speaking passengers. However, her time-line describing the captain's presence on the bridge doesn't correlate with the Italian Coast Guard communications when he was reported in the lifeboat; she describes him being on the bridge around 11:50 pm when she says she left the bridge. The Coast Guard report him in his lifeboat at least an hour earlier. Cherchez le Captiane!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:47 PM

"There are many instincts," says the judge. "Could you be more specific?"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:02 PM

my baser instincts perhaps ?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:01 PM

The Captain should keep his mouth shut:

"I don't know why it happened. I was a victim of my instincts!"

You can't make up more incriminating lines that that one.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:55 PM

Blue clicky didn't work first time for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:41 PM

A report released on Wednesday by the judge, Valeria Montesarchio...

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM

Is this where he got the inspiration for his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPrQ9r52zQ?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:28 PM

I just googled "dinner with the captain"
The cruise companies seem to sell the idea as a "great maritime tradition" -they don't mention the great maritime tradition of the captain going down with the ship of course. Specially invited guests thrill to the thought of being invited to the captain's table .Some cruise lines have a lottery for who gets a seat .Kendall wrote that the captain is always responsible when the ship is at sea , but I wonder whether a captain's duty as a mariner and his role as the manager of a floating pleasure palace don't sometimes clash .

This is the sort of stuff you get :
"Our captain always enjoyed a cocktail or two before dinner. When he was fairly well fortified, he would appear at the table about 20 minutes after the rest had entered."
"The evening begins with cocktails, either in a reserved area of a public lounge or the Captain's quarters, where the Social Hostess greets you and makes introductions to the Captain and other high-ranking officers. After getting acquainted, you are escorted to the Captain's table and take your place according to pre-arranged seating."
"Then sit back and enjoy a sumptuous dinner with exquisite service and fine wines. A photographer will appear to preserve the memories and the picture will be delivered to you the next day, perhaps with a copy of the menu or a note of thanks."

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:56 PM

Il gigilo di giglio

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:33 PM

Oh dear! Reporters are hot on the trail of the beautiful young woman that the captain was seen drinking with shortly before they both took off for the bridge: click here for story

I think I'll start a limerick thread above the line. If you share such bad taste, feel free to contribute.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 02:30 PM

I'd cast Don Novello as the captain.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 02:05 PM

No, I just checked with Wikipedia and it was Humphrey Bogart who starred as Capt. Queeg. I guess Bogart is no longer available.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 01:28 PM

Evidently the Captain Schettino had company as he tripped and fell into a lifeboat:

Mr Schettino told investigating magistrates in Grosseto, on the Italian mainland, that he ended up in the lifeboat by accident.

During three hours of interrogation on Tuesday, he reportedly said: "The passengers were pouring onto the decks, taking the lifeboats by assault. I didn't even have a life jacket because I had given it to one of the passengers. I was trying to get people to get into the boats in an orderly fashion. Suddenly, since the ship was at a 60 to 70 degree angle, I tripped and I ended up in one of the boats. That's how I found myself there."

He said he got stuck in the lifeboat for an hour before it was lowered into the water off the coast of Giglio island.

Also with him was Dimitri Christidis, the Greek second in command of the Concordia and Silvia Coronica, the third officer, according to La Repubblica newspaper.

Maybe Captain Schettino does deserve the benefit of the doubt. I can hardly wait for the film version. Who was it who played Capt. Queg in the Caine Mutiny? Oh, now I remember, Brad David. Is he still around?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:56 PM

Let's try this link for photos of the sunken ship: click here for PIXS

I think this one works directly. At least it did when I checked it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:00 PM

Kendall-

Maybe he was thinking that if he "jumped ship" he'd no longer be responsible.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:39 AM

mayomick, if the Captain is aboard, he is responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

If you walk in your sleep, cruises may not a wise option:)

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:25 AM

Here's a link to the best set of photos of the ship I've found, during and after it was run ashore: click here for PIXS

You may have to scroll way down to find the right story. Sorry, maybe someone else can find a more direct link.

What a nightmare!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:11 AM

Eliza seasickness is one of the other reasons that I would hesitate to book a cruise. The more that is emerging about the Captain I question his sanity to sail a ship in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:05 AM

mayomick-

That link was certainly an eyeful.

The captain of the Costa Concordian definitely needed a lawyer to remind him to keep his mouth shut. With each new statement he is just slip-slip-sliding deeper into the abyss.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQsOgyV6LI&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:10 AM

But there is limitation of liability - see here including a link to conversion rates: -

http://www.imo.org/About/Conventions/ListOfConventions/Pages/Athens-Convention-relating-to-the-Carriage-of-Passengers-and-their-Luggage-by-Sea-(PAL).aspx


http://tinyurl.com/7p6s8km

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 10:26 PM

Article 3

Liability of the carrier

1. The carrier shall be liable for the damage suffered as a result of the death of or personal injury to a passenger and the loss of or damage to luggage if the incident which caused the damage so suffered occurred in the course of the carriage and was due to the fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment.

2. The burden of proving that the incident which caused the loss or damage occurred in the course of the carriage, and the extent of the loss or damage, shall lie with the claimant.

3. Fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, if the death of or personal injury to the passenger or the loss of or damage to cabin luggage arose from or in connexion with the shipwreck, collision, stranding, explosion or fire, or defect in the ship. In respect of loss of or damage to other luggage, such fault or neglect shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, irrespective of the nature of the incident which caused the loss or damage. In all other cases the burden of proving fault or neglect shall lie with the claimant.


       -- Athens Convention relating to the Carriage of Passengers and their Luggage by Sea, 1974

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:26 PM

Well, the good news for old Joe Hazlewood is that he is no longer the shittiest skipper in memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:53 PM

I would 'think' a captain would be expected to remain legally sober while the ship is on the seas. There are others who assume command while the captain sleeps...etc... but a captain should be available at all times in cases of emergency.
Now I have no direct knowlege of that rule, and I have no doubt that, whether or not such a rule exists, captains of various vessels DO sometimes get drunk. There is testimony that the captain of the Exxon Valdez was 'impaired' when it ran aground in Alaska.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 PM

It was a hypothetical question Bill . I was wondering if there is any law that says the captain of a ship isn't allowed to get drunk when off duty. Does he have to be sober and capable of responding to a crisis at all times ? If he was off duty and sloshed at the time of the accident that would be a mitigating factor for him , I would have thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:06 PM

In Italy, all that might win him some favor in the court of public opinion, but I doubt it would in court....

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 04:48 PM

According to one report I read, the captain had spent much of the night drinking in the bar with a beautiful woman on his arm.
Does anybody know if the captain of a ship is supposed to be capable and on duty at all times ? If this particular captain had been drinking when the ship hit the rocks , would he be able to claim in his defence that he was off duty at the time ?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM

one report

I read one report that the captain sailed close as a favor to the 'chief waiter' (as had been done before)... and the last line of the above link says:

"Half an hour before disaster struck, the waiter's sister posted an entry on her Facebook page saying she had been told the ship was "going to pass really close", and sending "a big hello to my brother".

One more report including this:"The father of the ship's head waiter told Reuters that his son had telephoned him before the accident to say the crew would salute him by blowing the ship's whistle as they passed by the island of Giglio, where both the waiter, Antonello Tievoli, and his 82-year-old father Giuseppe live.

"The ship obviously came too close," the elder Tievoli said, according to Reuters.

I don't know if Antonello asked the captain to come near, but the responsibility is always the captain's."

Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper quoted witnesses as saying that shortly before the accident, the captain called the head waiter to the bridge saying, "Antonello, come see, we are very close to your Giglio."

Yes...those are technically 'hearsay', but there does seems to be a pattern emerging.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:41 PM

The captain's own words, as translated on the PBC/BBC links, will convict him.

That may be his only conviction...

He should have had more.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:32 PM

"Yer honor, we find the defendant not guilty."
"Mr. Foreman, you and the jury will have to go back and reconsider, because we hanged him an hour ago."

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM

Let's be fair. It may have been a bit icy on deck. He may have stood in some custard. He may have been wearing very slippery shoes. Soemone may have pushed him and his second-in-command onto some seaweed. The lifeboat was fortunately just underneath. We mustn't condemn the man just yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM

From CBC radio program "As It Happens"

The captain going down with the ship has become a metaphor for honour, integrity and responsibility.

Francesco Schettino is the captain of the Costa Concordia, which ran aground off the west coast of Italy on Friday. He did not go down with his ship. He was safely aboard a lifeboat while hundreds of his passengers and teams of rescue workers remained on the dangerously listing vessel. Here's his radio conversation with a Coast Guard officer admonishing Schettino to return to his ship. This audio was first posted on the website of the Italian daily, Corriere della Sera.

Here is that recording, with translation provided by the BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM

His second in command was in the same lifeboat.
They must have both slipped on the same banana skin.
These things happen all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM

Come on folks, let's wait until he is found guilty, then hang him.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:27 PM

I just saw a pic of him. He looks able-bodied and not old in THAT pic. If that IS the case, I should think questioning why he left when he did is valid. However, self-preservation is hard to overcome, even for the strongest of us. I certainly do not know what I would do faced with possible death by drowning. I'd like to think I would do all I could do for those in my charge but I wasn't there.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:08 PM

The Italians appear to want his throat cut.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

He certainly needs a haircut!!

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:51 PM

He certainly sounds like a slippery character! And lucky, eh?!!

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:31 PM

Just heard on the BBC Evening News that the Captain is now saying he slipped and fell into a lifeboat!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 12:34 PM

I don't comment on whether it is right or wrong, I simply said it is traditional for the Captain to be the last to leave a sinking ship.

As far as him losing his license, what happened to the Captain of the ESSO Valdez? Last I knew he was teaching navigation!

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM

Don't know why they bother with an investigation Charley, might as well just lock him up and throw the key away. After all, who needs facts when you have mudcatter speculation.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:13 AM

CJB-

Thanks for posting those reports above.

I can't imagine any luxury cruise ship captain using charts at 1:300,000 scale for navigating several hundred meters from shore.

The captain evidently had an hour after the initial collision to assess the situation before deciding to ground his ship in shallow waters. Some have questioned whether he should have ordered the lifeboats deployed earlier than he did. I'll be interested in what the investigation concludes about that.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

Patsy, I get terribly seasick, and a cruise would be the last thing I'd consider! But loads of my old friends adore them and, as you say, find having a base on board the ship and evening entertainment to be just what they want. I applaud Little Hawk's censure of the term 'old hags'. But I'm robust enough never to mind what ageist twits think of women of my age. Solo or as a couple, people are there on holiday and are free to enjoy their chosen trip without abuse like that!
Like tragic aircrashes, a disaster like this might put folk off a cruise, but I'm sure there are hundreds of successful voyages by dozens of different companies, there will always be customers to enjoy them.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

I cruise quite often (in double figures). I've always said it doesn't suit everyone, but it combines my wife's enjoyment of relaxation with my low boredom threshold if I stay in one place too long and the better providers run seminars, which suits me. For example, I did a short astronomy course on my last trip. On another I took part in a performance of Pirates of Penzance that took several hours of rehearsal a day; very enjoyable, thank you!

There is really quite a wide range of style depending on the provider - some I find horribly glitzy, others are much more visually and environmentally pleasant. I've sailed with perhaps six companies, but not Costa. All have been good with the safety musters, but the same can't be said for the passengers. Too many don't pay attention: I admit to being rather inattentive on planes myself, as I suspect many people are. Passengers on cruise ships seem more attentive to these talks than airline passengers, but not by very much.

As for the comments on age: yes, there are far more older passengers as a proportion than the general population, but there are probably rather more under 30s than many might expect, even on child-free ships.

Will this accident will put us off? No.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM

Cruises had never really appealed to me. Unfortunately in the 60s and 70s growing up I had this notion that it was all going to be a bit like a Carry-on movie, it was the last thing I would have dreamed of doing for a vacation and in my mind then (wrongly) just for much older people who's only interests centered around bingo, sequence dancing and the cabaret in the evening. But mostly I had the view (wrongly) that people who went on cruises were possibly not adventureous enough to travel through or stay anywhere long enough to get to know the culture of a particular country. Now that I am older I can see the benefits of a cruise ship as a relaxing base with the option of a range of activities ashore for some people it can be ideal but what prevents me is the mentioned notion above about older single women considered as hags.