Will folk clubs survive

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 05:21 AM

>>I'm basically a singer-turned researcher.<< >> When I lifted the corner to see what was underneath<<

How many other people did that in these islands since the 50s when it all kicked off? How many are doing that today? The TSF has a membership of about 200. That will give you an idea of the % of folk enthusiasts who bother to 'lift the corner'. Most are quite content to perform or listen with a minimum of lifting, and it has always been that way. Neither of us is going to change that significantly no matter how hard we try. (We will both keep trying of course). I doubt the situation is much different in Ireland.

In my own area, to discuss face to face with anyone the level of interest we have, other than TSF meetings, I have colleagues in North Lincs, Sheffield, West Yorks and Newcastle. At least an hour's drive away.

>>Whe began to lose our   clubs when they forgot what folk songs were and how unique and important they were<<

Jim, you have been taken to task on this one numerous times by numerous people. The decline of folk clubs was down to a multiplicity of factors over a long period. Folk Music in the UK is every bit as strong as it ever was (allowing for current economic and other conditions) but it has evolved in a myriad of ways. The folk club is NOT the be all and end all.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:34 AM

Kenny - now you really have left me in tears - not only are the bars closed but those running them are no longer with us (I suppose ou know Young Jim Marrinan died a little after Noreen was immobilized by a stroke)
Still humming with music here - more than ever in fact

"Its folk music Jim but not as we know it"
Being involved in folk song on many levels, I haven't got a clue what that means I'm afraid Malcolm - I'm basically a singer-turned researcher
I was drawn into the scene because I liked what I heard and eventually wanted to be part of it
When I lifted the corner to see what was underneath I found it teeming with life and social history - two levels of deep enjoyment for the price of one
I sat through several local history classes here before the Dreaded lurgi closed them and found there were about a dozen songs I was aware of that touched on the subject matter, local murders, drownings, shipwrecks, women disputing being married off, evictions, land wars, cattle rustling... both part of my two interests
I really can't see how what has gradually happened to the folk scene has come anywhere near replacing that in either enjoyment or intellectual stimulation
Whe began to lose our   clubs when they forgot what folk songs were and how unique and important they were
We can alwas try karaoke if all we want to do is blast out a few songs, but it seems a little..... well... destructive to steal the identity of such an important aspect of our history and culture
Sorry if that upsets some people (as I secretly hope it will)
Jim

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:51 AM

Maybe sessions will return more easily than Folk Clubs

The difference?
Well, drinkers can sit and talk with a session going on in the corner.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 10:34 PM

I accept your assessment, Jim, of things as they are where you are but must admit to writing only for things as I see them where I am.
I have had many glorious times in your part of the world and hope to renew the experience again - ano domini allowing.
Interestingly when I worked in Ballymena in 1976/7 I had problems finding anything other than country and western but those were difficult times.
As someone says above the songs and music will survive and hopefully we will not be paraphrasing by saying "Its folk music Jim but not as we know it"
I feel I have done my bit over the years and am still doing bit as I approach my dotage but would probably turn down a knighthood (tongue firmly in cheek).
Lets all keep safe and keep as well as we can.
And stop bitching (not accusing you of that Jim) - life's too short.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 01:22 PM

"I still shed a a silent tear for Mary Fahy's and Tom Queally's when I pass them - regularly".
I'm with you on that, Jim. And also the Cleary's across the road from them - if I've remembered that right. All great hosts for the music at Willie Clancy week, starting for me in the 1980s, Hennessey's as well, although we did get a few tunes in there, surprisingly, about 3 years ago.
"Will folk clubs survive ?" I don't know. It would not affect me at all if they didn't, at least, where I am. What's more important is that the songs and the music will survive, of that I have no doubt.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 06:06 AM

I must have seen the last of the couple of pubs here who ran on a shoestring but still encouraged only the drinkers they had things in common with
They were family pubs which were rub vy people who considered them their homes
WE dran in two of them until their demise - I still shed a a silent tear for Mary Fahy's and Tom Queally's when I pass them - regularly
Jim

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: JHW
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:56 AM

Though we folkies were regular patrons of many a pub we weren't known for spending money on drink. Probably driving. Many even took own water in. Nearby Mon FC landlord asked to add a quid to the guest night door money to help income.
At the very first FC I went to, Oaktree at Richmond (Yorks of course) the heaving Friday FC was ousted to instal a pool table, decades ago. Pub has been houses for years.
New recruit little bars on shopping streets may re-appear. May suit a FC better than the many pubs that had the walls pulled out last century. No business can survive without turnover. Pubs were struggling and closing anyway.
It will be life Jim, but not as we know it.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:46 AM

There has also been a rise in the number of micro pubs. They are cheaper to run than the traditional pub. We might well see an increase in their number once things start to return to 'normal'.

Of course we might also see some of the micro pubs we have now disappearing due to the current situation. Hopefully they will be able to hang on in there until things get better.

Posted from Kent, the home of the micro.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:45 AM

Looks like I have drifted off topic on my own thread.

Another angle is also whether, at the end of all this, those who organise folk clubs, will be motivated enough to deal with the hassle of getting going again, and if they will get enough support from folk enthusiasts to do so.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:39 AM

I am finding more and more pubs, are focusing a lot more on food sales, with social drinking increasing squeezed into a corners. A few years back on holiday in the Cotswolds we ran across a village pub where customers could only sit at a table if they were going to have a meal and this seems to be happening more and more. There are also pub chains like Wheterspoons, which because of their asset wealth are more likely to survive than freehouses, that are only interested in pumping out sales to as many customers as possible and don't fit in as part of the community and another chain which has been discussed before in the forum whose owner is against live music.

I like to think that at the end of the pandemic, communities will want to come together and things will change for the better but I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:48 AM

Certainly around here in the Home Counties the new "pubs" are small bars opening in redundant High Street shops. The purpose built pubs with the capacity to host a folk club, without taking over the whole venue, are still on the decline.

@JimCarrol its nice to know that pubs in a foreign country are still thriving in the traditional form but that doesn't invalidate Malcolm's comments about this side of the Irish Sea.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:24 AM

The UK ended March 2019 with 39,135 pubs, 320 more than a year earlier, the first net increase since 2010. So there is a demand for venues where people can meet, eat, drink and make music.

Inevitably, some pubs and hotels will remain closed after the lockdown ends, so the downward trend is likely to resume this year. Some will find a new use, but others will re-open in due course, perhaps with community support. Folk clubs can be one element of this.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:03 AM

" who wold the great architect be?"
Hopefully someone who doesn't need a white stich and has to go around wailing "Nobody knows what folk song is anymore"
I know of many fine singers and enthusiastic folk lovers who left th scene because they stopped hearing folk songs - like me, they didn't lose their love of them, they just couldn't be bothered having to look hard anf have to take pot luck - we haven't all died off yet
Best not to look for leaders in my experience - they're probably doing the same -
Getting something started only takes a handful (even two, if you're thinkinh about something else !)

I don't go along with Malcolm - the folkies I know/grew were gregarious, even herd animals who thrive on company - I suspect they are missing the buzz of that every much as I am
We live in a one street town in the West of Ireland - five/six nights of sessions - multi ones on Saturday and Sunday
I expect they'll hold a mass to celebrate their return (so will the publicans)
We're also lucky to have at least one venue where people who prefer to keep drinking and music apart and can hold an occasional mini-display' concert
That's not going to disappear
Jim

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:44 PM

I suspect that people's social habits will have changed by the time the current situation ends.
They will have got used to spending more time at home and will be less likely to keep up old habits.
I know that my own social habits (going for a pint every night) changed as pubs became less social and it is a long time since I have visited my locals on any nights other than Monday, Tuesday and Thursday quiz nights when social dialogue and interaction are still possible.
I/we usually try local hostelries when on our various travels and are occasionally pleased.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 02:37 PM

1666 had Christopher Wren , who wold the great architect be?

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:45 PM

Maybe they can take the opportunity to build an improved model like they did London after the Great Fire
Just a thought !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:08 PM

We are heading for a financial nuclear winter. There won't be as much money around. But cheap entertainment, ie local, will flourish.
Venues will be the problem, though selling property won't be easy, running as a pub/cafe/parish hall will be easier for many.

One thing I can predict with confidence is that it won't be exactly the same. We will have to accept it as it comes.
Food/consumer goods won't have the plethora of choice. I mean, who will buy bottled water from Hawaii, in the UK? Not that I believed it was water from Hawaii anyway. Minerals yes, distilled water - definitely!

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:13 AM

We certainly intend to continue once that we are allowed out again and we are possibly fortunate at Tigerfolk that the Stumble Inn, Long Eaton is one of the town's go to real ale pubs as well as the live music centre of the town. The landlord had cancelled all the band bookings for the forseeable future along with their open mic plus darts and dominoes etc. We are reasonably confident that we will re-open to our regular audiance when this crisis is over.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:49 AM

I suspect finding venues will be the biggest challenge. Pubs were closing in their numbers before this hit. As a result, I suspect there will be a lot of pubs/hotels/clubs/cafes that will not even bother to try and re-open when this is over. People's attitudes, habits and outlook on life in general will possibly change as well. This could work out to be to the benefit of performing 'live' whether it be folk, rock or otherwise. Of course, the opposite could happen - who knows? I don't expect it will ever be the same as it was a month or so ago.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:51 AM

Just about everything we took for granted before the pandemic, will, when we get the all clear, be changed; have been lost completely; be still with us, but slimmed down; appear to be missing, but 'magically phœnix-like', reappear to astound us all. Folk clubs are in this giant, melting pot.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:38 AM

I agree with you that pubs will welcome clubs & their punters back when they reopen.

I do worry that there will be a few pubs that will not reopen once things get back to 'normal'. We will all have to wait and see.

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:32 AM

Anything that gets punters into reopened pubs, will be welcomed by publicans, when it's all over.
How many of us will be left?

Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:25 AM

How many venues will still be there?

Subject: Will folk clubs survive?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:19 AM

Once the pandemic subsides and it is safe for people to gather again, how many venues have made a commitment to welcome the folk clubs back.