BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:02 PM

Being critical of things a country does to the people in places ruled and occupied by that country is not "anti-British people" or "anti-American people" or "anti-Russian people" or "anti-Iranian people", or "anti-Ethiopian people". Or bigotted towards people with links and loyalties towards those countries who are living elsewhere. And that is demonstrated by the fact that some of the most cogent critics involved are natives of those countries.

When apologists for the governments involved try to suggest that people involved in these kind of criticism must be racist bigots or traitors, that rightly gets dismissed as flannel.

If the cap fits, wear it...

I have never read a single word by Carol which could fairly and honestly be described as anti-semitic.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:01 PM

"The only thing wrong with your comments is that Israel and Judiasm is synonomous."

To some people, yes, that's true. However not to all. I post often and you know what I think of your President. Martin, I do not think that of Americans. If I write against the policies of your country, that does not mean that I am against you as a citizen of that country. I have too many American friends ever to think that way.

This is not the third axiom from Euclid's geometry: Things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other.

I do not like Hamas. I would wish their leadership be treated the way all terrorists should be treated. You know what I mean by that. However, I do not dislike Palestinians. I belong to no specific religion, so I have no ax to grind in that regard. (As I told you once before, decades ago I considered conversion to Judaism.) The problem here and now is that many people do have a dislike of Israel's policies yet harbour no hatred for Jews. And many people--myself included--have a dislike of 'Arabic' policies and do not harbour a dislike for Arabs. I think we have to keep that claer in our own heads, regardless of what's going through the heads of others. Shalom.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:59 PM

Thank you 6 for supporting what I know and others are completely ignorant about.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:59 PM

Big Mick, a perfect description of who you at first defended but then spoke the truth about when it came to being in touch with reality.

She's not, Mick. And like I said and will keep saying, Israel is the soulful and spiritual home of the Jews. All Jews in the world are citizens of Israel.   It is also spiritually connected to other faiths, but face it, the Star of David is on the flag. I do not see a cross or a moon and star there.

Bobert, you are one big shade of gray, because you have no concept at all of what is right and what is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: number 6
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:54 PM

MG .... I don't know whether it's anti-semitism or just plain ignorance and lack of sensitivity, probably all three.

Some of the poster's here are obviously unaware that Israel is the homeland of all Jews, Israel and Judiasm is synonomous.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:52 PM

I know Carol and being an anti semite is not within her. She certainly is not a fan of the policies of the government of Israel. One of the flaws, however, that I have always found in her arguments is that they are based on the displacement of Palestinians by the "creation" of Israel. It always ignores the displacement of the Israelis throughout recent and ancient history. It is fair to say that there is not a more discriminated and attacked group in the world. When viewed in the light of this occurring over generations, one understands the attitude displayed. Anyone who expects the Israeli government to negotiate with a group of people dedicated to the destruction of Israel is out of touch with reality.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:52 PM

What's this??? Martin's 15th or 16th thread on the subject... Man, I thought I was bad about the cut 'n posters but, geeze, Martin's gfot me beat...

Problem is that, like Martin's hero, every thing is either black or white... No shades of gray in Martin's world...

Hey, how about the Christains who live in Isreal... Or those of Islamic Faith...

The statement that Martin has made would be like some Southern Baptist sayin' the "United Sates and Southern Baptist is synonomous."

How would that make a Jewish feller who lives in Chicago feel???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:45 PM

Shatner is also a Jew, BTW, Peace.

The only thing wrong with your comments is that Israel and Judiasm is synonomous. Though I have never been there, I am a citizen of that country. As I said, it is my homeland, it's people and it's land are the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:42 PM

You dismiss the fear of the Jews to easily Amos. We have a right to be paranoid, with Hamas and that madment from Iron ready to wipe us out.

As I said in another thread, Jews are about Israel. It is a homeland for all Jews, physically and spiritually. Anti-semitism is widely recognized as the hat of Jews.

Amos, your complete density on the subject makes you basically an imbecile. You rate right up there sometimes with who I am referring to in this thread. Deny it if you want, because you are programmed to. But having seen and experienced anti-semitism in my life on more than a few occasions, and you never have, I absolutely know what I am talking about here.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:38 PM

"I hate people who wear baseball caps backwards. I'm not sure if any of them are Jews or not. If so, though, I think it's a very small minority of them."

Oh, yeah? Well, I have my fire 'baseball' cap on now and it's the old fashioned way, with the visor in the front. Just to piss you off I have turned it around and the visor is now in the back. I am not Jewish, but if I was I would have done the same thing just to piss you off. This has nothing to do with being anti anything. It has to do with I have had a shitty day and I want to piss off any and everyone who likes Shatner--and I don't give a rat's ass that Shatner is Jewish. He probably couldn't find a hat big enough to fit his head, anyway.



Martin, the only thing to do with anti-Jews is to tell them to fuck off. Repeatedly. With anti-Israelis, argue. With anti-Semites, again, tell them to fuck off. There are some folks you'd have to be an idiot to try to reason with. Nazis and White Supremists are two of those groups. Just tell them to fuck off. They don't understand reason anyway. As to folks who are on either the Israeli or Palestinian side fo things, they are usually worth the time in terms of argument, because they both see a version of right and wrong for one reason or other. You know damned well that I am pro Israel. Always have been. However, the screwing the Palestinians got is from many countries. Only one of those countries is Israel. The others? Try damned near ever Arab state in the mid-East. Keep that in perspective. The people who only note Israel as 'causing' the Palestinian difficulty likely do hate Jews to one degree or other. That is too bad for them.

I have seen what I perceive to be varying degrees of racism here, as well as sexism (from both sexes) as well as chauvinism. But I have seen many good people post, too. Lots of good people.


And one last thing: Shatner is not a great actor OR singer, FYI. OK, he's cute, but my old Labrador was cute, too. She couldn't act or sing, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM

That's because you don't (first of all) recognize the difference between Semites, Jews, and Israelis, which are three entirely different sets of people.

Once you get those definitions cleared up, try and recognize that some folks strive for justice whenever they can do so. That includes a complete understanding of whoever is on both sides of any given issue. So, for example, CarolC brings up arguments in defense of those Palestinians displaced long ago by the establishment of Israel, out of a sense of justice, NOT out of a sense of anti-Jewishness OR anti-Semitism (which would be pretty much disliking both sides equally).

The preservation of Israel is a high goal well worth pursuing; but getting a Palestinian state established which will co-exist with it on peaceable terms is also a requirement of real justice. You may believe that such a thing is not possible, but I would say the effort has to be made.

As king as either Israel or the now-formative Palestinian state intend on the eradication of the other they will both be miserable on this issue.

But anyway, this sort of concern is not anti-semitic, anti-Jewish or anti-anything. I wold not think it was something to be paranoid about. You yourself have probably done more harm than any of these conversations could, I think, by being a rather piss-poor ambassador.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:11 PM

I hate people who wear baseball caps backwards. I'm not sure if any of them are Jews or not. If so, though, I think it's a very small minority of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:08 PM

Me, I don't like anybody very much.

Subject: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 07:44 PM

In recent light of some recent threads, I would say the anti-semitic, anti-Israel, anti-Jew element is at an all-time high here.

It's really pretty disgusting how this type of hate is allowed here by this group of supporters of Hamas. I think that it brings great shame to this web-site.

Mr. Max Spiegel, who sounds like he could be a Jew and owns this site, apparently allows this anti-semitism to flourish here.

I just don't get it.