42 days to no smoking (UK)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:49 AM

Sorry, Skipy - You have lost me again:-(

The smoking ban is responsible for you not giving up even though you have had years to give up prior to the smoking ban.

The smoking ban is responsible for pubs closing even though pubs have been closing at a rate of 50 a month for years.

The smoking ban has been introduced to ensure that pubs will close for property redevolpment even though our countryside and town centres have been being gutted for years.

The smoking ban is to make money for the government out of property development even though the revenue from the tobacco industry has always outweighed any taxes raised on property.

I am not getting at you, honest, but can you not see that you seem to be putting an awful lot at the door of the ban? Even though it is not a ban at all. I am sure this is not the case but what is coming across is that you have decided that the so called ban will cause no end of problems whereas the major problem it is causing is nothing but a very slight restriction of your anti-social habit.

Only an observation and only my opinion of course and I agree wholeheartedly about errosion of freedoms. But why should your freedom to smoke where you like remove my freedom to go into pubs and clubs without breathing your poisonous waste products?


Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:44 AM

Don't believe you Skipy. Smokers just say that to cover for the fact they are addicted. You had plenty of opportunity to give up before a no smoking ban was proposed, now all of a sudden you won't give up because of the no smoking ban.

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I say this Skipy, not out of a wish to condemn, but out of a concern for your health.

P.S. My 24 year old son took the same line. Thankfully he has now given up, hope he continues.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: villandeleted
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 AM

Give up for your health Skipy, not becuase of rules and regulations.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:40 AM

Yes Dave I am, and the only thing stopping me giving up is that I will not be seen to give up due to the errosion of my freedoms!
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:13 AM

Just as a point of trivia. I am told there is an TV advert with a bloke walking through a smoky pub pointing out that England will become smoke -free zone.

The actor who does this is David Kennedy - Peter Kennedy's step son.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:01 AM

Thanks skipy - I am easily confused. Specialy later in the week! I take it you are a smoker then?

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

Sorry mate, maybe I worded it wrong, the first statement was surposed to you saying it.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:13 AM

Skipy,

From 12 June. 9:17AM. Before you ask how can it affect me, I am a non smoker!

From 13 June. 3:37PM. Just for the record, we do not smoke in the cars

Can you clear up the obvious discrepacy for me?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:00 AM

It's o/k, I worked that out.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:57 AM

Oops I just realised I didn't post as The Villan.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:01 PM

Point taken mate, "felt like" & "doing" are poles apart.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: villandeleted
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:41 PM

>>if we have the kids with us<<

Exactly skipy. Of course I wouldn't have done anything,I just felt very sorry for the lad.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

Actually Villan, you are the one in the wrong here, he/she was not breaking the law, so your urge to use violence is wrong.
Just for the record, we do not smoke in the cars, even on long journies to festivals if we have the kids with us.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 02:54 PM

Just saw a parent driving their son to school today. The parent was smoking with the windows up.
I felt like getting out my car and whopping the parent, for their lack of consideration for their son.
Disgraceful.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM

There are two pubs in my village, almost facing each other. Both are non-smoking and have been for years. Each seems to be surviving without any problem and make a good deal of their money by serving meals in a smoke-free atmosphere.

DC

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 05:58 AM

I thought it might be, skipy:-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:56 AM

Dave, get your own latest conspiracy theory! That one is mine, as stated on the other smoking ban thread. This is all about brown land, not about health.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:47 AM

Aye - sadly true as well, Punkfolkrocker. And they still keep building new estates with no pubs, shops or schools:-( Wonder what they think people do in their spare time?

The latest conspiracy theory I heard was that the Government had introduced the smoking ban to make sure that pubs closed so property developers could have the land. I'd love to see the battle between the tocacco companies and the property developers. With a bit of luck they would kill each other off!

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:02 PM

..more pubs are closing..

.. because the land they are built on

is more valuable to profiteering landowners

for development into tower block luxury apartments..



.. just lost one of the last of our locals with a decent sized beer garden..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncleboko
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM

In Geneva last Saturday, I saw an eastern european looking lady with a young baby begging outside the main station - sitting on the ground of course. About 1 hour later I saw her again, lurching along the road, with a cigarette in her mouth and blowing smoke at her baby. Interesting.......

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:50 AM

I have said before in this very thread that pubs are closing at a rate of 50 a month anyway. The ones most affected are village pubs like the ones in your examples but urban ones are dissapearing alarmingly too. The reasons range from the availability of cheaper booze elsewhere to the effectiveness of the drink driving campaign. Most people who have stopped going in pubs however, if you would care to use google one more, do not go to pubs because they believe that they are no longer pleasant places to be in. They are going to restaurants, cafes and various other places as well as staying at home. If the landlords and breweries want to blame the smoking 'ban' (which as I said is NOT a ban but a restriction) for their own inadequacies then that is their prerogative but please don't expect everyone to swallow that yarn.

The latest CAMRA survey is predicting that an extra 7 million - yes that is 7,000,000 - people will visit pubs due to the 'ban'. Look at this recent article from an independant source (Money Week) for one view of many that refutes your assertion that it has had a bad effect elsewhere. Blaming someone else, particularly the government, is the easy option but not I'm afraid, always the right one.

An apology though - I listed ASH as pro when it should have of course been anti-smoking. Sorry for any confusion and for being a pillock over preaf rooding.

As to arguing and mumbling that you were right. Firstly, I would never mumble you were right. If you were and it did indeed prove to be the complete disaster you predict I will not mumble. I will sing it from the top of blackpool tower where I shall also be showing my arse. You are of course quite right that we should not be arguing. You should be shouting at the people who want to blame anyone and anything else for their failures rather than admitting that they could, just maybe, have run their pubs a bit better.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM

Skipy - The Minnesota Site was good. Lots of good information there.

Well, seeing as I gave up smoking ciggies years ago, at least I know I have the willpower to be able to get off the skag.

"Irritability, anger, hostility, anxiety, nervousness, panic, poor concentration, disorientation, lightheadedness, sleep disturbances, constipation, mouth ulcers, dry mouth, sore throat-gums- or tongue, pain in limbs, sweating, depression, fatigue, fearfulness, sense of loss, craving tobacco, hunger, and coughing (body getting rid of the mucus clogging the lungs)."

So that's why I'm a consantly tired, fat miserable bastard.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:17 AM

Dave,
The results for USA, Canada, Ireland & Scotland are out there for you to read, IT WILL be the same here!
I am not up for an arguement on this, so lets wait & see.
Just remember when affects YOU & it will, to mumble to yourself "that little shit Skipy was right".
Before you ask how can it affect me, I am a non smoker! It will cause the closure of pubs, clubs and assorted venues where music is played. It will change the attitude of Landlords causing rooms that where used for singing once a week / month to take on other full time usages in an attempt to get more trade to replace the smokers.
I know one pub where that has happened already. I fear for one of the 2 pubs in my village, I don't think that I will have a singaround venue for my festival in 2008. The pub in question is the only place in my village where the Morris can dance which, they currently do 4 times a year, followed by a music session.
I am friendly with another Landlord in another village, nearby, who is spending every spare minute in the day setting up an ebay company as he KNOWS he will not survive it. There is a singaround there once a month + 4 morris visits a year followed by music. His is the only pub in his village!
That's just the effect on 2 villages!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:56 AM

Alan, who is telling you that you can't smoke your cigars?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:39 AM

Spent 1/2 an hour playing with google to see the effects of the ban!

So the ban is already in effect near you? Are you in Wales, Scotland or Ireland? Funny, I always thought you were in England where the ban is not in effect until the 1st of July. Does your google button have a pre-cognitive function that the rest of the world lacks? Wonder how you can 'see the effects of the ban' otherwise? ;-)

The link I posted was from a survey by CAMRA, the worlds most effective consumer rights organisation. The results of the survey are alo posted, undisputed, in the ASH (pro-smoking) newsletter. CAMRA had been previously worried about the effects of the ban but this latest survey (February 2007) has laid those fears to rest. Find as many links as you like and I am pretty sure that an extra 1/2 hour spent on google would find you as many links from the opposing view.

For the record, I am perfectly calm and very relaxed thank you. But then again I don't need to alter my habits in any way in a couple of weeks. Do you by any chance? Do the facts you posted about the addictive effects of nicotine in any way cloud your judgement? Maybe having 17 years experience in the licensing trade realy does qualify someone to decide government policy but it doesn't make your arguments any clearer.

One final point - The is not going to be a 'smoking ban'. You are still allowed to smoke in your own home and in specialy designated areas. What is the big deal?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 06:14 AM

Calm down Dave!
I am not prepared to say which folk club it is as I am not a member, there are plenty of catters who are, so I will leave it to one of them to say. (I may even give one of them a nudge to the thread).
Spent 1/2 an hour playing with google to see the effects of the ban!
Oh! & just for referance Mrs Skipy is in the licensing trade & has been for the past 17+ years, so we are up to speed on this one!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 05:40 AM

I've just noticed that in the survey the highest proportion of smokers is amongst lager and alcopop drinkers! If there is any change in the type of people that go in pubs, a change from alcopop kiddies and lager louts to big bellied bearded real ale drinkers can only be a move in the right direction can't it:-)

Dave "5 bellies" Polshaw

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 05:32 AM

Oh, by the way, it's started already, one long standing folk club has been told to leave, as the room is being converted into a pool room to try and get it used 7 nights a week due to the smoking ban!

So, people who play pool don't smoke? People in folk clubs drink enough in one night to keep the landlord happy for the other 6? To keep folk clubs going we need to smoke? Where is this 'long standing folk club'? The landlord would have been quite happy to leave the room idle for 6 days as long as people smoked? What, exactlty, is your point?

Sorry, Skipy. Nice try but no cigar. (I guess you DO smoke and want that cigar don't you?) I suggest you show the landlord in question this CAMRA survey suggesting that pubs are going to get busier after July 1st.

It'll be interesting to see what argument makes less sense though. Keep 'em coming:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:51 AM

From web site of:-
Minnesota University,

Tobacco is as addictive as heroin (as a mood & behavior altering agent).

Nicotine is:
1000 X more potent than alcohol
10-100 X more potent than barbiturates
5-10 X more potent than cocaine or morphine
A 1-2 pack per day smoker takes 200-400 hits daily for years. This constant intake of a fast acting drug (which affects mood, concentration & performance).. eventually produces dependence.

Pressures to relapse are both behaviorally & pharmacologically triggered.

Quitting involves a significantly serious psychological loss... a serious life style change.

Will that do you, if not then Google for it there are 100 of papers on the subject.

Oh, by the way, it's started already, one long standing folk club has been told to leave, as the room is being converted into a pool room to try and get it used 7 nights a week due to the smoking ban!
Watch this space!
Skipy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Possible withdrawal symptoms (after stopping tobacco use):


Irritability, anger, hostility, anxiety, nervousness, panic, poor concentration, disorientation, lightheadedness, sleep disturbances, constipation, mouth ulcers, dry mouth, sore throat-gums- or tongue, pain in limbs, sweating, depression, fatigue, fearfulness, sense of loss, craving tobacco, hunger, and coughing (body getting rid of the mucus clogging the lungs).

Symptoms may last from a few weeks to several months. After withdrawal subsides... urges for nicotine (for the effects of the drug) occur in response to all kinds of cues to smoke or chew.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM

"Tobacco is a harder habit to break than cocaine addiction. Or heroin. This has been amply documented by medical studies"

Fancy citing the papers resulting from these studies?

19 to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 09:31 PM

Stringsinger-That's not quite true.
The US has about 20 states that are "smoke-free" in public places. Minnesota,(where I live) will become smoke free October 1.

Rustic

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:25 PM

Tobacco is a harder habit to break than cocaine addiction. Or heroin. This has been amply documented by medical studies.

State-sponsored support of tobacco is tatamount to legalizing drug addiction.

Smokers who are in a state of denial or addiction are not in a position to defend their bad habits when it impinges on thre rights of others to not have to breathe their second hand smoke. I'm glad the UK finally woke up on this issue and wish that the US would follow suit.

Fat chance, though because Bush and his cronies are not only tied into oil but also the tobacco industry.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Moses
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:25 AM

At the pub last night I witnessed three nicely dressed well behaved youngsters (20 somethings) approach the bar and light up within six feet of the evening's guitarist-singer. I'm sure they had no idea the effect they had on his well-being and if gently asked they probably would have moved away.

As it was, I didn't stop to find out, I was about to leave anyway and the smoke only hastened my departure by about 5 minutes.

The point being that from 1st July this shouldn't happen. Last night's youngsters didn't do anything they were not permitted by law to do but they did cause offense to those like me who are sensitive to smoke.

The ban will not stop smokers who really want to from smoking, it will just make life a bit more pleasant for the rest of us and may, just, encourage one or two smokers to smoke a bit less.

Christine

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: vectis
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:33 AM

20 and counting

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM

21 now ¦¬]
G.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:26 AM

Me too Sooz. Might even start going in the Brewers on Sunday nights again. Mmmmm, maybe not!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Sooz
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:01 AM

3 weeks today - I'm so looking forward to it!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:04 PM

I'm glad I never got hooked on smokes.
I remember visiting my parents when I was in college and
an old friend of the family was also at the house. I mentioned,
"maybe I should start smoking" (this was about 1971).
My parents friend said, "If we had a nickel for every cigarette
I smoked and your dad smoked, we could pay for your four
years of college". I never considered it again.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:00 PM

"I remember seeing my Mum crying because, despite him getting 200 cigarettes in the groceries every week, my Dad had taken the last of the money from her purse to buy more, and we had nothing to eat."

Sadly I know that feeling although it was alcohol that was the inspiration in my case.


Someone who cries occaisionally

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 06:14 PM

Senior Service were my first, sold singly by the corner shop near my school.

Anyone remember "Joysticks"? They came in packets of five, about six inches long, and rough as a bag of gravel, but they were dirt cheap, and lasted forever.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:10 AM

I'm always saddened at the sight, at our local supermarkets, of people who look as poor as church mice (or, as me old mum used to say, "haven't got a ha'penny to scratch their arses with"), bags full of cheap-range cans and packets and sliced loaves of the cheapest white bread, no fresh food at all, but spending sixty quid at the fag counter.

Several smokers have told me how it's outrageous me spending £1,500 on a guitar. I told them it's about the same as, or less than, they spend in a year on coffin-nails.

Priorities!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:51 AM

"Stigweard, where do you get the smoked pickled eggs? I must try one:-)"

Now there's a thought . . .

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:14 AM

I don't remember packets of 4 but packets of 5 Woodbines or 5 Park Drive were a common sight near us.

Stigweard, where do you get the smoked pickled eggs? I must try one:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:17 PM

And me Jim Lad. Our local shop would sell them singly.

I also remember being able to buy Domino Cigarettes, four in a packet. I'm sure the packet was open ended and had domino spots on the back. Anyone else remember those?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Rumncoke
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:37 PM

I remember seeing my Mum crying because, despite him getting 200 cigarettes in the groceries every week, my Dad had taken the last of the money from her purse to buy more, and we had nothing to eat.

Dad was invalided from work because he could not have the operation to improve the blood flow to his feet until he stopped smoking, and he would not - even when warned that any injury to a foot or lower leg would most likely result in amptation

Towards the end of his life, when living alone, he had to either stop smoking or breathing - he opted for the former, but only after he had collapsed several times. His health improved dramatically.

He told me he had never had so much money in his life before, and he mourned for the money he'd wasted, all the things he could have done for his family - I never told him what I thought of him.

Anything which is going to cut down on the dreadful drain on family income cigarettes represent has to be a good thing. Some families where money flows out on drink as well must be pushed below the poverty line by the selfishness of the adults indulging themselves at the expense of their children's well being.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM

Gold leaf 10s were my smake of choice in my teenage years.

Interstingly enough, I think the ban is already starting to bite. In the pub where we play our session every other week I asked for a cheapo cigar (Castella) from the tin behind the bar, which I intended to go outside to smoke. The landlord said he had none left, and it had take ages to sell that tin as people were already smoking less.

I can't wait for me first smoke-free pickled egg.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:42 AM

We must be the same age Dave. I have a similar person to thank for my addiction. There was a well worn path from our school to her wee shop.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:35 AM

When I was a lad there was a very nice (so we thought at the time) lady shopkeeper used to sell us a single cig and a couple of matches in a paper bag for 3d. The cig was always a number 6 if you wanted filtered or a woodbine if not. Now. 10 woodies were 1/10 and 10 number 6 were, I think, 1/9. No idea how much 20's were as they were a financial impossibilty! Thinking about it years later she made a fortune out of schoolkids - 3d a cig makes it 2/6 for 10! so she made at least 9d extra on every packet - probably more if she split up 20s.

Eeeeee, them were the days. Why does the bloody government have to intervene and spoil all our fun.

Cough, cough...

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:05 AM

"But why should the tax take be any different if the ciggies are sold in 20s rather than in tens?"

Spot on McGrath! In point of fact packets of ten used to cost anything up to five pence more than half the cost of a packet of twenty.

This was due to the extra packaging material used (so they said), but I think greed had summat to do with it..

The tax, I believe, was calculated on the weight of tobacco, so presumably no difference.

So they might be telling the truth about putting youngsters off.

BUT I wouldn't bet on it!

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:18 AM

Hit the nail on the head there Dave - the state should legistlate in matters of public health etc, but confusing anti-smoking laws with the overkill survellience system we all now live under and tracking of our movements and consumerist choices are different things and should not be confused.

As it happens, I enjoy a cigar every couple of weeks, and I go outside to smoke where I am not endangerng other people, and I am respecing their right to breathe pollutant free air.

It's all about respect.