BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: bubblyrat
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:32 PM

Gosh !! Until tonight, I had had absolutely NO IDEA that the government of the country I love had sent our troops into Afghanistan in order to kill all the women and children AND steal that country's resources.
    So thanks, Carol------now I understand ! So, next time these Muslim zealots and extremists mindlessly slaughter a train-load of commuters or a 747-load of holiday-makers, I will be that much better equipped to fully appreciate the reasons for this disgusting,pointless,sub-human behaviour. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:26 PM

The man organising this planned march/protest has already made himself notorious on several previous media outings. He is clever, and knows that this plan will provoke hostile responses. He will thereafter be able to point to those responses as evidence of anti-Islamic sentiment.

So to oppose him vociferously is to play into his hands.

Unsurprisingly, some of his most vigorous critics are other British Muslims, wno are only too aware that his main aim is to ensure the prolongation of animosity.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:19 PM

Yusuf - The one 'Islam' that I believe in, and the one that so many within 'the other Islam' have so much to learn from........"Spread the message of Peace"

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:14 PM

Carol, the people who did terrible things in the past are long dead and gone.

My country also gave birth to William Wilberforce and a great many other people who believed in freedom for people and who worked their butts off, dedicated their lives to ending slavery around the world.

I will never give in to the 'Oh you're country was so awful' brigade, because my country did a helluva lot of GOOD things too, and even to this day the good things from those times still remain in many countries where Great Britain once dwelt.

Most countries have skeletons, as do most religions...

Willaim Wilberforce is still, to this day, a man who influences many for the good, especially in the US, where the Amazing Change movement is.

Yes, I understand Evil alright...and right now, it is amongst many of us. As a sweet cleaning lady once said to me, back when my son was in hospital as a very young boy..."During the War we could see the enemy, dear. Now it seems to be amongst us, hidden"

How right she was.

And I'm not just talking about the religous fanatics there, of all religions, but those who seek to undermine society, dumb it down, bring it down, for their own ends, whomsoever they may be.

And....I'd appreciate it if you didn't use *your* freedom of speech to directly imply that I have double standards or any other such values. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:02 PM

And I dare you to listen to the talk I posted earlier in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:59 PM

But it's ok for people from your country to go into other people's countries and kill their women and children, and steal their resources. I think you don't understand what evil is, Lizzy. Keep in mind that the government of your country for centuries went into other people's countries and subjugated them, treated them as slaves, took their resources, converted them to Christianity by force, and otherwise made their lives a misery. And now your government is doing it again. And when they try to tell you they don't like it (after having fled to your country because it's the only place they are safe from the predations of your government and mine), you call them evil. Well, I think that's a case of the pot calling the kettle sooty.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:57 PM

I'd have no problem with a nurse who wanted to pray to Allah for one of her patients, actually, Carol. It would all be done in kindness, nothing else.

I do have a deep problem with Extremists, of any religion, or country...who preach hatred against others.

We've put up with it for way too long in this country, because of our hugely tolerant nature...

Well, you can push the British just so far...

Personally, I've reached my limit with all this crap..and to be honest, I would LOVE to hear Good and Decent Voices from the true Muslim community condemning all the crap that is going on around them, in their God's name.

It is way past time for The Good Men and True to stand together, as one religion, one nation, one colour and tell the evil minorities that enough is enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

"I guess you don't believe in free speech. That makes you a lot like the repressive regimes you're criticizing here in this thread."

I believe in speech being used for Good, not Evil.

We have tolerated way too much Evil, for way too long...in my opinion.


I've had my freedom of speech taken away from me, by the BBC and by those on here who were part of the witch hunt, Carol...yet all I ever did was dared to talk about social issues and protest songs, so please, do not talk to me about freedom of speech.

If you use your voice to stir up hatred and evil, then I feel you absolutely deserve to have your right to freedom of speech removed.

Sorry, but the women of Afghanistan know no other way of life than the terrible one they've had forced on them for so long. Until the women of the Middle East, in general, rise as one to put an end to the male dominated society which prevails in so many countries over there, life will never improve for them...no matter how much people from the West try to help.

We had many Middle Eastern female patients who came to us to seek refuge from husbands who beat them. That's what they did, went off around Europe, consulting various doctors, about this or that, illness that didn't really exist...just fear which brought them so low...It was paid for by their Health Offices in those days...At least it gave them a break from their terrible fear filled lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:48 PM

PaulF, that is not what all Muslims believe. Only the more extreme Muslims. We have Christians in my country who believe that children who disobey their parents should be stoned to death. We only ever hear about the Muslim extremists and people like you try to tell us that they represent all Muslims, while nobody ever talks about the extremists from other religions. And you can't criticize Muslim countries for not allowing free speech if you don't support it yourself. If you don't believe in free speech, you're no better than they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: PaulF
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:41 PM

The punishment visited upon both those who convert from Islam to any other religion, and for those who try to convert Moslems to another religion, is death.
Methinks someone is taking advantage of the sort of free speech we allow here, but is not allowed in any Moslem country I know of.
PaulF

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:41 PM

pdq, please provide some documentation for your anti-Muslim screed.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:38 PM

The originator of this thread has no problem with Christian nurses proselityzing their patients, but she doesn't like it when Muslims proselityze. So it's ok for Christianity to try to convert the world, but not Islam. I find it very amusing and at the same time alarming to see the double standards people apply to Islam as compared to other religions.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:34 PM

"We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God)..." ~ Mr Anjem Choudary

I have heard many interviews and discussions concerning Islam in recent years, and most of the followers say that Islam will eventually become the religion of all people on Earth.

They don't care how long it takes or how many people are hurt in the process.

Followers of Islam are told to force conversion (when they gain power to do so) in three steps:

          1) ask the infidels to convert

          2) demand that the infidels convert

          3) if the first two steps don't work, kill them

Note: the UK is just at step 1.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:31 PM

The women of Afghanistan are no better off under the people the UK and US governments support than they are under the Taliban. Here's a feminist who has spent time with women in Afghanistan and asked them what they want, talking about what they told her. (Here's a hint - they want the US and UK to get out of their country - but who cares what they want, right?)...

http://www.miptalk.com/?p=325


I guess you don't believe in free speech. That makes you a lot like the repressive regimes you're criticizing here in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:16 PM

Sorry, I meant to say "cheap publicity stunt".

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:15 PM

We've been driving my step daughter to the airport today and have been listening to the coverage of this on the radio. Approving/disapproving of the war and honouring the dead are two different things. We still honour the dead of WW1 whilst sometimes questioning whether that war should have been fought at all.

The people of Wootton Bassett are not trying to make a political point and to hi-jack this for politico-religious reasons smacks of being a cheap political stunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:12 PM

And here is his letter, from the Islam4UK site....

>>>>>>>DATED 3rd January 2010

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon those who follow the guidance.

Following the public announcement of an impending procession by islam4uk (a branch of Al-Muhajiroun) through the Market Town of Wootton Basset we thought it only appropriate that we provide an explanation and a little more about the purpose behind the procession, especially to the family and friends of those who have died there and who may have been led to believe that it is merely an act of incitement or provocation.

We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God) to mankind to take him out of the darkness of worshipping his own desires to the exclusive worship, submission and obedience of Allah alone, without partners and to testify the Messenger-ship of the final Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We urge you to embrace Islam and save yourselves and your family from the hellfire and not to believe the lies and distortions which the Western media and non-Islamic regimes would have you believe about Muslims and their true intentions. Islam means submission and the Muslim is the one who submits to the will of God in his life. Verily the Messenger Muhammad told us that whoever heard his name from the Jews and Christians and did not believe would be held accountable for that on the day of judgement.

We start by pointing out what many wise people already know i.e. that the British public have once again been lied to by their politicians about the war in Afghanistan. What began as a fight for freedom and democracy and to protect the human rights of the civilians and to find Sheikh Usama Bin Laden (by the use of B52 bombers) has today become a campaign to protect the security of the British public back home and it has gone from being a campaign which could be completed without firing a weapon within 3 years to one which could go on for 40 or 50 years with a heavy cost to the participants.

In actual fact the foreign policy of the USA and UK is not about protecting the rights of Muslims or propagating democracy and freedom nor is it about the threat posed by the people in Afghanistan to the British public at all, but rather it is to establish their own military, economic, strategic and ideological interests in the region. The rich resources of Afghanistan, its position on the cusp between the Indian sub-continent, Southern Russian, Asia and China and its populations call for the Shari'ah are the real reasons why the military has sought to establish a permanent role there, no matter what the cost to the lives and wealth of the indigenous people or indeed their own. Pivotal in this is the desire to prevent Muslims from running their own affairs and establishing an Islamic State if they so wish but rather to maintain a puppet in the area (Mr Karzia) to maintain and protect Western interests.

In order to create an atmosphere where these greedy objectives can be accomplished the Western and even Eastern media have constantly shown atrocities being committed against the ordinary people of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in markets, universities and public gathering places and have then blamed these on the perceived enemy, in order to discredit any legitimate struggle for liberation and in order to demonise them in the eyes of the world and thereby justify the occupation and real intentions. The truth about such bloodshed and mayhem is only now becoming public knowledge after information about the real perpetrators has emerged (such as the CIA related agency Black Water). The billions of dollars paid to the Pakistan regime by the USA/UK alliance and to the Secret services in Pakistan, their army and to the Karzai Afghan regime by way of bribes has led them to slaughter their own citizens with the help of the USA/UK and to then blame the Taliban in an attempt to subdue those seeking liberation to fulfil their right to run their lives by divine law and to protect the US/UK military and economic interests. With additional atrocities being committed by the USA and UK through indiscriminate air raids and other operations the number of ordinary Muslim men, women and children who have been killed has reached horrendous proportions. Not to mention the torture and abuse of basic rights by the occupiers in Afghanistan, such as in Bagram Air Base, the case of Dr Affia Siddiqui being a clear and brutal example.

There is no doubt in most people's minds that the final conclusion to the current conflict in Afghanistan has already been written. Ultimate victory for those fighting in their own backyard, familiar with the mountains and plains and their supporters who struggle to protect their sanctities from the foreign aggressors cannot be denied. The signs for this are already appearing with incohesive thinking among the British and American chain of command, the crippling effect of the war on their economies back home and the depression of the soldiers realising that there is no real moral or ethic reason for them to murder innocent men, women and children to fulfil their politicians agenda. Blaming a lack of equipment is one of the ways in which politicians have tried to shift the focus. It is noteworthy that unlike among the US and UK soldiers, there has not been one reported suicide or attempted suicide among those resisting occupation.

As a consequence this can only mean much more destruction for the USA and UK sons and daughters sent by their uncaring leaders to their deaths. After all this would not be the first time that this region has acted as a grave yard for empires in history, notably the British and Russians.

It is worth reminding those who are still not blinded by the media propaganda that Afghanistan is not a British Town near Wootton Basset but rather Muslim land which no one has the right to occupy, with a Muslim population who do not deserve their innocent men, women and children to be killed for political mileage and for the greedy interests of the oppressive US and UK regimes.

The procession in Wootton Basset is therefore an attempt to engage the British publics minds on the real reasons why their soldiers are returning home in body bags and the real cost of the war. The conflict in Afghanistan is not an 'honourable' defence of British values and a cause for the British to remain secure, rather the presence of the US and UK forces in Afghanistan is the cause of instability in the region and a cause of insecurity for the British people back home. The parades, the speeches about soldiers doing their duty and the feeling of patriotism has obfuscated the reality of the conflict and the murderous crimes being committed by the occupiers and their agents. The British public is blissfully unaware of what is being done in their name by the Blair/Brown regimes and were the truth known no doubt the pressure to withdraw all troops immediately would be much greater.

It is our desire to end the cycle of violence and the quagmire in which we find ourselves in today in Afghanistan. For the British public to do their duty and force their regime to save their children from death and destruction, from an oppressive and costly campaign and to stop the occupation of Muslim land. We realise that, especially in times of war, we are up against a very sophisticated propaganda machine and no doubt raising awareness about the painful truth of this conflict will unleash a torrent of abuse from the media and government against us, who have their own predetermined agenda, however the world is today also small enough for those wishing to verify the truth to be able to do so via the many news and information outlets.




Mr Anjem Choudary

UK Head of Al-Muhajiroun <<<<<<<


I'd suggest he speaks to the Oppressed Women of Afghanistan before he criticises our soldiers too much. Ask his own soldiers how they treat their own people...

Ho hum...

Subject: BS: Islamic Protest in Wootton Bassett
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:04 PM

Maybe it's me..but I think this idea absolutely stinks, bearing in mind that Wootton Bassett is the town where our dead soldiers come home to..

Details from The Swindon Advertiser

Islam4UK


Whilst I do not understand why our soldiers are fighting this 'war'..I find this idea totally insensitive and repugnant.

The chap who is organising it said on Radio 5 this morning that he knew it would gain maximum news coverage if he staged it there...The man interviewing him was having great trouble being polite to this deeply insensitive prat.

If you don't like this country and it's laws, way of life, and religious beliefs, then find a country you do like and bugger off over there. It's that easy...and sorry, but that ain't racist...that comes from someone who is now sick to death at the enemy amongst us, who seek to cause maximum distress and unrest in this country, whilst taking all they can from us.

Yeesh! Have we lost the plot in this country, or what?


I suggest Mr. Choudray takes his beliefs elsewhere....and asks those within the Taliban how many innocent Afghanis they've killed, and how many hundreds of thousands they rule over, by creating absolute terror amongst their own people.