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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gutcher Date: 12 Aug 18 - 01:22 PM The lintel above the door of Wull"s cottage had a pair of shears carved thereon, alas now gone. His lugs having been cut off by his own shears. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gutcher Date: 12 Aug 18 - 01:13 PM Department of useless knowledge:--"Cherrytrees" was near the village of Douglas in South Lanarkshire. Anent Douglas-- look up Lugless Wull, a weaver in that village who had his ears cut off by the soldiers of the state for allegedly having given support to the persecuted Covenanters. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 12 Aug 18 - 08:36 AM Re the Finbar & Eddie Furey recording of this song on an LP in the 60s- Christy Moore told me that if you listen to it, you'll hear the moment when Eddie's nose & the studio mike came into contact... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Guest, admirer Date: 22 Mar 16 - 01:30 PM Wonderful thread, but one important piece of information missing: The connection to old Mddle-European lore by way of sound-relationship. Dainty Davey <--> Dairy Daisy, the famous daughter of a really big milk-producer from Worms, a city on the Rhine. Her cows "gaed oot" their "gravy", it came with a "splash", was "pat i' ma hand" and, obviously on her curly head. She was called "The cream - hilled Daisy". Later generations forgot the girl´s real name, called her Creamhill and told stories about huns, gold and a sinister knight called Hagen. Very much later, a Scottish gentleman came inquiring about the true story, found out some details, wrote a song and went away again. The German composer Wagner then took all the rubbish with gold and all and made a very loud and very long opera out of it. Thanks for the entertainment! Andreas (Not the one who started it) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Jan 12 - 11:42 AM I know a man in Texas whom you could call a modern Dainty Davy. He's small in size, sings beautifully, often has a twinkle in his eye, and has curly red-blonde hair. He has never lacked for feminine companionship. Have you ever seen the statistics that show that official leaders of men (CEO's, etc)tend to be tall and have executive (smooth, thick) hair? The saga of Dainty Davy is the saga of tall men being jealous because Dainty Davy appeals to the women and gets the girl. The more time passes, the more scurrilous the versions become. But the fact is, Dainty Davy won the girl and enjoyed a long and happy marriage, while Captain What's-His-Name found himself going to bachelor dinners, where he could only tell and retell the story, making it dirtier every time. He never did figure out that looking like a soldier and having lines of cruelty and anger incised in his face were the things that were keeping the women away from him. As for Davy getting in bed with the girl, that's all dirty old men talking. If you were running across country from thugs who might break your legs or fracture your skull, would you risk angering the women who gave you shelter? Given the fear and panic in your soul, could you possibly get it up? Of course not. Use your heads, guys. It's a charming song, so let it stay charming. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Jan 12 - 10:03 AM Spaw? Are you around? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 25 Jan 12 - 09:42 AM One other thing - I have always heard the chorus sung as it is in the extremely bawdy version Burns probably collected, i.e. I've always heard "Bonnie Davie, Dainty Davie" and not "Dainty Davie, dainty Davie" as published on DT. "Bonnie Davie, Dainty Davie" also scans much better, IMO. It's also a bit strange to me that DT lists the Burns version first, and the traditional version as "Dainty Davie (2)", given that the traditional version is the one that is mostly sung today. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 25 Jan 12 - 09:30 AM That's interesting. So Burns published a song that he wrote the words of, to the old tune, which had nothing to do with the Rev. Williamson story, but it has been largely ignored by folk singers; and also possibly wrote but probably just collected an extremely bawdy version of the "curly pow" song; and Burns was clearly aware of the story about the Rev. Williamson. This extremely bawdy version then presumably morphed over time into the moderately bawdy version that is still widely sung today and which is in DT without attribution - have I got that right? And presumably the reason that the Burns version has largely been ignored despite being good poetry, while the moderately bawdy "curly pow" version has survived and is still widely sung today, is that the Rev Williamson story caught people's imagination, whereas the Burns version doesn't have much of a story to it, so most people prefer the traditional song to his lyrics for that reason. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 25 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM "the bawdy version that Burns published is far bawdier than the "curly pow" lyrics on the DT site" AFAIK Burns didn't publish the bawdy versions. The so called "Merry Muses of Caledonia" were discovered after his death. He seemingly both wrote and collected the bawdy material so it is hard to say which ones were actually his work. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 24 Jan 12 - 09:59 PM I've tried to plough through this fascinating thread but it's too much to take it all in and I'm still confused about the various versions. DT lists two versions of the lyrics, and only attributes the "Warlock Knowe" version to Burns, leaving the "curly pow" version unattributed. Someone in this thread said the Burns published a bawdy and a sanitised version of the song in different publications and at different times (the latter having nothing to do with the incident that allegedly inspired the original song); but if I understood the post correctly, the bawdy version that Burns published is far bawdier than the "curly pow" lyrics on the DT site, to the point that I doubt anyone would be able to get away with singing them in a folk club even today. BUT the version that I have always heard sung is the "curly pow" version that DT implies is traditional and annonymous. So is this right, that Burns wrote two versions, one ridiculously bawdy and one sanitised, neither of which are sung much today: and that a third, moderately bawdy version, which was not written by Burns, is the one that has survived in the sense of being widely sung today? And if so, does the traditional, anonymous, "curly pow" version precede Burns, or did it develop after his death? Or a bit of both? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 12 Sep 10 - 01:56 PM Ah Chrissie...you just had to wake the drowsy Spaw. But now that you have I think a cream sauce fits better than gravy. Color, flavor, composition - just my opinion of course. Heads up all - my thyroid is wacky again and I am not responsible for anything I say or do. heh heh |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM Ah've loved this wee song fur years noo, but eventually, ah jist hud tae find oot what "leeze me on yer curly pow" means. Imagine ma delight tae find this awfy informative (and humourous) wee discussion. So... eftir reading the whole, long and enjoyable threed, ah accept that it means "ah like yer curly heid". Hooever, ah think the deeper, mair poetic meaning is also relevant, and ah like the suggestion that it is actually "ease me on yer other bit" The modern translation of course being "it's ma turn oan top noo babe" Apologies of course tae Mr Spaw. Chrissie. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Laura Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:20 AM can't believe what this song is about! 'leas' instead of 'peas','tribunes' instead of 'dragoons' in the version I heard, albeit dragoons makes more sense. DID NOT know the 'gravy' verse, kind of marrs the song a bit for me, although it's funny still. good to know the story about Davey and Lady Cherrytrees, and truly enjoyed the bawdy version of the Crimean War |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 18 Jun 10 - 08:28 PM I guess that I thought that Mudcatters all had well developed senses of humor, and could recognize tongue-in-cheek posts. Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM "If you don't agree, you're welcome to keep your own incorrect interpretation." Now that's a master statement of arrogance. Reiver, you don't even seem to be aware of the passage from Swift or to know that there are at least two entirely different Dainty Davy songs. And I don't think we needed anybody to tell us what thighs are. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:57 PM This thread has dropped a few too many stitches. [Or added too many, might be more accurate.] Natheless: Back to the original question and ignoring the rants about the Crimean war, Napoleon, etc., etc., etc., which belong elsewhere: First, the story: I think it's pretty evident that the INTENDED meaning was to tell the story [perhaps an actual event] of one 'Dainty' Davy [possibly an actual person. The story about the minister is a good one, and fits the context, to an extent at least. It seems probable that the appellation 'Dainty' was thrown in for alliterative purposes primarily, rather than as a physical or social description] who was fleeing pursuit by a company of armed men. For reasons best left to fertile imaginations, the lady of the house decides to help him. She does this by employing a rather surprising and unconventional ruse. She hides Davy in the bed beside her physically mature daughter! Whether the mother intended or expected the consequences is moot. If she did not, she was either 1] hopelessly naive or ignorant about what to expect, 2] even more naive or ignorant in believing that Davy being a religious man would preclude the not unexpected [by anyone other than the mother!] consequence, or 3] it was a conscious plan of the mother to get the daughter off her hands. [Whether because the daughter was becoming a royal pain in her nether regions, or because she feared that the girl was never going to find a husband, is not entirely clear]. Either way it would free her of responsibilities that she wished to transfer to another. Apparently, the daughter was cooperative in the event [the desire to end this particular mother-daughter relationship appears, perhaps, to have been mutual] and after the predictable consequences she and Davy married and lived happily [more or less] ever after. Definition of terms: The 'curly pow' refers to a curly head. The name Dainty Davy is used by the song's author [Burns, probably, in the best known version, is used in reference to both the man tucked into the girl's bed and, also in an attempt to lighten the mood of the song, to a rather obvious portion of his anatomy. The girl's 'thees' or 'thies' are thighs, the upper portion of her legs [or limbs]. The 'gravy" reference should be evident to anyone, and most especially to Mudcatters. There, most evidently, were cherry trees on the estate, but it seems likely that 'Cherry Trees' was also the name by which the property was known. [When the words Cherry Trees are capitalized in the lyrics, it is the latter.] Military units known as 'dragoons' date back to the 1500s. They began as mounted infantry, not true cavalry. Later they might be designated as either 'light' or 'heavy' dragoons and still later became true cavalry. Burns lived in the late 1700s, and Davy's pursuers were almost undoubtedly 'light dragoons' who's primary duties were related to reconnaisance and skirmishing. There you have the definitive [according to Reiver 2] explanation of what is happening in this fine song. That's the way I interpret it. If you don't agree, you're welcome to keep your own incorrect interpretation. Can we let it go now?? Forget that last statement, I know better. After all, this IS the Mudcat Forum! Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:37 PM But the six hundred were...nevermind. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:34 PM Yes, we know that both Napoleon and Davy were long gone by then. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Tannywheeler Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:21 AM Oi! How off was I?? I related it to the curls on a baby's/toddlers head. The phrase quoted, that is. Didn't know about the song until I skimmed this thread. & of course, Napoleon was long gone(but not his mischief) by the Crimean fracas...Tw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM I thought it was six hundred? Or was that a different war? Or a different brigade? Did they all have curly pows? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:11 AM Napoleon was not around for Crimea. That was Tennyson. "Into the valley of death rode the five hundred..." Spaw, have you got a recipe for a tennyson? It would be British, not French, so instead of the butter and eggs, maybe treacle and oatmeal. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM Napoleon? Well, I don't see why not! I mean there is always a place for a great dessert and Napoleon is one fine dessert and certainly one of my favorites! And here's a nice recipe as well.................... Traditional Napoleon Dessert Recipe: One classic French dessert recipe that never fails to impress! The French name for a Napoleon dessert is Mille Feuille, meaning "a thousand sheets" acurately describing this layered crispy puff pastry lined with a contrasting butter cream filling… absolutely delicious and oh so satisfying! You can prepare this dessert individually or as one large rectangular pastry. Preparation Time: about 30 minutes Cooking Time: about 20 minutes Refrigeration Time: at least 30 minutes Ingredients: 1 lb. Pre-made Puff Pastry (refrigerated or frozen - both are good!) 4 cups Whole Milk 2/3 cup Granulated Sugar 1/3 cup Flour 7 oz. Butter (room temperature) 2 tbsp. Cornstarch 2 Vanilla Beans 10 Egg Yolks Additional Flour to roll out pastry crust Additional Butter for baking sheet (or use parchment paper as a lining) Powdered Sugar to decorate How to Make It: Preheat oven to 400°F 1. On a lightly floured surface, roll out pastry into a large rectangle that you will be able to cut into three even parts (once cooked, not now!). Transfer rolled out pastry onto a baking sheet (lightly buttered or else lined with parchment paper). Prick top of pastry with a fork. Cover pastry with a layer of parchment paper and place another baking sheet, of the same size, on top, to keep pastry flat. If you don't have another baking sheet, just pour rice or any dried bean over the top. Put in the refrigerator for at least 30 minutes. 2. Remove pastry from the refrigerator and bake (with either the additional baking sheet on top, or with the rice/beans on top) for ten minutes. Take out of oven, remove baking sheet (or rice/beans) and remove top layer of parchment paper. Put back in oven for another 10 to 15 minutes or until lightly browned. Remove from oven and let cool off entirely before spreading on cream filling. 3. As your pastry is baking, you can prepare the cream filling. In a large saucepan combine the yolks and sugar and stir well. Then stir in flour, and cornstarch. 4. Cut vanilla beans in half lengthwise, and scrape out the seeds into the mixture and stir well. 5. Slowly stir in the milk until homogenous. Put the cream filling on the stove (light heat) and very gently bring to a simmer -- when you see small bubbles, take it off the heat and refrigerate. 6. In a large mixing bowl, beat the butter so that it rises. Gently mix in the rest of the cream filling. 7. Once the pastry has cooled, cut it carefully (serrated knife works best) into three even parts. Using a spoon and a spatula spread a thick layer of cream filling on two parts of pastry crust. Stack these two layers and cover with the third (top) pastry piece. Sprinkle top with powdered sugar. Refrigerate until serving. Voilà! Take a look at the ideas below if you are looking for more ways to make napoleon dessert recipes! There's no shortage! Variations for Napoleon Dessert Recipes Chocolate Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe above, just add chocolate to the cream filling! Use 8 oz. of unsweetened baking chocolate. Cut into small pieces and stir in as you are warming up the cream filling. Just make sure to stir enough so that the texture of the cream is completely even. You can still use the vanilla if you want, or you can leave it out. Orange-Cream Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just substitute the vanilla with 1 to 2 tbsp. of grated orange rind… depending on how strong you want it to be. Almond Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just add 3 tbsp. of ground almond powder right before adding the flour and cornstarch. Use 1 vanilla bean instead of two. Sprinkle the top of each layer with a thin coat of grilled almond slices. Orange Blossom Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just add 2 tbsp. of orange blossom water right before adding the flour and cornstarch. Use one vanilla bean instead of two. Berry Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, adding a thin layer of berries on top of the cream filling. You can use raspberries, blueberries, sliced strawberries, blackberries… or anything that suits your fancy! Decorate the top with powdered sugar and with berries. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:03 PM So Napolean was involved in this too? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:34 PM You're right, Spaw. Davy had been a chaplain during the Crimean war. That's where he had learned to e and e [escape and evade] pursuers. Can't help you on the cocked hat thing, but somehow I doubt your hypothesis. "Seems to me she'd just as soon have Davy........." That, of course, is the basic message of the entire song. And's it's been getting under the skin of tall guys ever since. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:55 AM Well geeziz leeneia, that's all well and good but you fail to mention his service in the Crimean War and without that all of your good work is thrown into a cocked hat. And what IS a cocked hat anyway? Is it a hat preloaded with some guy's cock and if so why???? And why would Davy's wife want one? Seems to me she'd just as soon have Davy......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:40 AM The theory that the version with the gravy is the unexpurgated version is just that, a theory. My theory is that it is the corrupted version, probably cobbled together by a half-drunk guy who couldn't get laid. Since he couldn't experience love, he trashed it. Have you ever read the original account, embedded in the works of Jonathon [sp] Swift? It simply reeks of jealous hypocrisy. Face it, guys. Davy was a small man with curly hair, probably charming. He had the brains and integrity to be a minister. His wife-to-be, perhaps a petite woman herself, looked on him and liked what she saw. They got married, and the rest came naturally. Add to this the adventure motif - that she rescued him from a passel of mounted thugs who were pursuing him across country, and you have a sure-fire winner of a song. (They weren't planning to stop him and ask for some ID, you know.) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:38 AM So if you went to a POW-WOW you'd get scalped? Damn.....Always wondered where the Injuns got that.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Captain farrell Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:28 AM Where I come from you go for a POW and A SHAVE ie a HAIRCUT and a Shave. Thats in Saddleworth Yorkshire England |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: C Stuart Cook Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:28 AM Guest John Spence, Yep I know it's a Scots song but the last time I looked Scotland was firmly anchored to the top of Northern England. Without wishing to ignite a whole Scots/English debate there were most likely better lines of communication between Dumfries & Galloway and N England, road and coastal craft, than there were to Glasgow and Edinburgh. When Rabbie stood on the coast looking south he was looking at the lumpy bits of England. Most of the dialect developed as Scots, Welsh and country people came together in the mill towns |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,ruairiobroin Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:07 AM I heard that "pow " was actually scots pronunciation of peau, french for skin. Never saw reason to doubt it |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:18 AM Yes Sins, considering that if we're including these Cherry Trees then it would be natural to addd in some birds as well. But why Nightingales? Seems to me a few mockingbirds would have the desired effect as well. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:03 AM and not a mention of Florence Nightingale. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,JOhn Spence Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:59 AM Quite correct mg |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: mg Date: 15 Jun 10 - 09:06 PM The lpeople involved were called Cherrytree I think...that was their estate. mg |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:04 PM See? Just goes to prove that Burns wouldn't have had a clue himself!!! Sillyass old fart didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about......Understandable of course since the language he spoke was not!!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 15 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM The last time I looked, the Crimean War was well after the time of Burns (but my Tardis has been playing up recently) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Jun 10 - 06:12 PM Aw hellfire here......Both of y'all are way off. You need to study your Crimean war history a lot more.......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,John Spence Date: 15 Jun 10 - 04:50 PM Yes, but this is a Scottish poem/song |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: C Stuart Cook Date: 15 Jun 10 - 04:24 PM In northern dialect or at least some towns, pow means hairdo or haircut. My wife went to the hairdressers on Monday. As I came in the front door I said "Ey oop tha's 'ad a pow" You would say to the barber "A'll 'ave a reet good pow" if you wanted him to take it down to the bone. If you said "Ey oop A'm reet powfagged". You'd be saying you were mentally exhausted |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Jun 10 - 04:12 PM I know what you mean Sins.....First this "Dragoon" bullshit and now some crappola about Cherry trees. Theree were certainly none of either where the black hole occured swallowing the entire flaming Dainty Davey Brigade. Perhaps there were some cherry trees around the Nazi stsh at the other end of the time warp. Could that be a possibility? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge Date: 15 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM The unexpurgated version is as is by Burns. If you look at the words carefully and with an open mind the following appears to be the case. The whole song is about a sexual encounter in a field behind the house at Cherry Trees, which does or did exist. 'I trow he lay na lang at that, But turned and in a verra crack, produced a 'Dainty Davie' I think it is obvious what he produced and later put in her hand. Atweesh ma thees' translated would be between my thighs, 'Splash! gayed oot his gravy', well that does not need translating, I don't think. Contributors have tried to explain that a curly pow is hair, well I think it is but not of the head variety, more likely it is the hair which surrounds the 'Dainty Davey' which was put in her hand and from whence the gravy splashed. Burns was well known for writing suggestive if not blatantly disgusting words. Nine inches will please a Lady, for one |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 15 Jun 10 - 03:55 PM I hadn't realized that there were Dragoons in the Crimean War. Fascinating. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 15 Jun 10 - 03:28 PM This thread is FAR too long!! I read about halfway, but couldn't make myself finish. Still I can't resist adding my two cents worth. The Reivers learned two versions. What we called the 'expurgated' version we came across first [I don't remember where or by whom]: 1] Once there was a tender maid \ She was mistress of her trade, She fell in wi' a roving blade \ And his name was Dainty Davie. Cho: Leeze me on thy curly pow \ Bonnie Davie, dainty Davie. Leeze me on thy curly pow \ He was her Dainty Davie. 2] In through the wondow brought \ Weel's the pleasure she might tot, The sweetest kiss she ever got \ Was from her Dainty Davie. 3] Doon amang her faether's leas \ E'en below the cherry trees There he kissed her as he pleased \ He was her dainty Davie. It made little sense but had a nice melody. Then we found what we called an 'unexpurgated' version which sounded more like the original: 1] Bein' persued by the Dragoons, in ma bed he was laid doon. We'el I wat he was worth his room, my ain, dear Dainty Davie. Cho: [Same as in the expurgated version above] 2] Ma mither laid him at ma back, I trow he lay na lang at that, But turned and in a verra crack, produced a 'Dainty Davie'. 3] In the field amang the pease, behin' the hoose and cherry trees, Again he won atweesh ma thies, and splash! gaed oot his gravy. 4] Had I gould or had I land, It should be a' at his command. I'll ne'er forget wha' he pat i' ma hand; It was a Dainty Davie. We assumed that poll referred to the head or forehead and that leeze meant lay, hence: lay on me your curly head. We never heard the story behind the incident as told early in this thread, and knowing of it makes the whole song far more interesting! I'm happy to learn the general background and wish we'd gone to the trouble of researching it then. This was in the 1970s\early '80s, and I was not aware of a resource like the Mudcat. [Actually, it wouldn't have helped as I didn't even have a computer in those days and had never heard of the internet.] Reiver 2 Reiver 2 background |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM I knew I could count on you Sins!!!! So let me remind all those not following this dynamic thread that the Dainty Davey Light Brigade was blown up in a time warp they encountered in the Crimea as detailed below: Light Brigades were specially trained in night fighting and carried torches into battle. After encountering initial successes against Buddhist Monks they were assigned to battalions fighting against the Curley Pow Warriors in Crimea. On the night of September 15th they devastated the entire Daintey Davey Division, setting fire to their curley pows and sending them running in flaming retreat across the battlefield with the Light Brigade in chase. The "blunder" oft referred to was that the Light Brigade followed too closely. When the flaming Curley Pow Warriors stumbled through an unseen fourth dimensional time warp encountering a future supply dump of the Nazis in WWII, the whole place blew up killing the remaining Daveys but also a goodly number of the Light Brigade as well. One of the members was spit back through the time warp and his dying words were ,".........shitty movie........terrible fuckin' movie......" Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 15 Jun 10 - 01:27 PM For those of you who have missed it, Songcatcher is on Cinemax this month. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: BobKnight Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM Bugger - I'd forgotten about that one. You're right - again. (hanging my head in shame) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jack Campin Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:09 AM Burns was dead long before the Crimean war - so it's a' shite. :) You've got it wrong - we're talking about the lesser-known McCrimean War, which was thought of in Burns's time as the war to end all wars. Hence his well-known song "McCrimean will never return". |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 30 Jun 09 - 09:41 PM aH LEEZE ME ON YOUR CURLY POW. DAINTY dAVEY, dAINTY dAVEY aH LEEZE ME COUGH COUGH COUGH |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: BobKnight Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:09 PM Aye, and many wrongs don't make it right. Unlike MacArthur, I shall not return - to this thread, but then I may if the notion takes me. Burns was dead long before the Crimean war - so it's a' shite. :) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:52 PM I'm sorry....You are both incorrect and as this thread predates your time here at the 'Cat by a decade, the weight of this thread is against you. Also, you didn't relate how any of your definitions tied into the Crimean War which makes you suspect at the very least. Please enjoy all that Mudcat has to offer but under no circumstances are you to ever return to this piece of crap thread. Harsh retribution will befall you and your heirs. Have a nice day. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: BobKnight Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:12 PM Yes, Burns was originally, "Burnes" from "The Mearns," closer to Stonehaven than Forfar. So, lets get this straight, and as Scots we can tell you now - it means "Curly Head" nothing more. It could possibly be used as a uephemism, but the original meaning is a head with curly hair. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Bald Pow Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:30 PM Burn's father ( originally Burnes I understand)moved to Ayrshire from my neck of the woods, Forfar, in Scotland. The phrase "curly pow" is still in use here. A man has a "curly pow" if he is curly headed. There may have been other,more bawdy uses of the phrase in the 18th century. I have never heard any such usage in 60 years. My wife who hails fom Ayr also knows it to mean curly headed. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:10 PM A "curly pow" is a curly head to we Scots |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:30 AM Ah ! Spaw.... nice one... but is a wee bit like the proverbial bucket of dung from China... A bit far fetched !! Burns knew better, so he did. Cheers. McCullough. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:36 PM OH MY Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. LOL |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: gnu Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM Hahahaaaaaaaa... heheheheeee.... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:03 PM A "Curling Pow" happens when the stone of one team crashes into the stone of another and instead of moving it, the target stone shatters. This is why so many teams are going with stones from Crimea as they are made by the descendants of the Light Brigade who stayed in the Crimea after their battle with the infamous Curly Pow Warriors as I related earlier in the thread. Perhaps you missed it: Light Brigades were specially trained in night fighting and carried torches into battle. After encountering initial successes against Buddhist Monks they were assigned to battalions fighting against the Curley Pow Warriors in Crimea. On the night of September 15th they devastated the entire Daintey Davey Division, setting fire to their curley pows and sending them running in flaming retreat across the battlefield with the Light Brigade in chase. The "blunder" oft referred to was that the Light Brigade followed too closely. When the flaming Curley Pow Warriors stumbled through an unseen fourth dimensional time warp encountering a future supply dump of the Nazis in WWII, the whole place blew up killing the remaining Daveys but also a goodly number of the Light Brigade as well. So you can readily see that the dick explanation does not entirely hold water although it has been known to spit some out. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,McCullough Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:35 AM I gathered from a folk singer of 25 years ago, that a Curling Pow, was in fact an erect penis. Coupled with the history behind the song, I believe that this is what Burns was refering to in the song. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:10 AM 'Dative as in "Wae's me for Prince Charlie..", of course.' Right on, bro! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:03 PM Dative as in "Wae's me for Prince Charlie..", of course. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 01 Mar 09 - 06:29 PM 'Weapon of Awesome Terror which was a very particular type of cannon which shot both cannonballs and petrified horseshit in equal proportions' Some may have thought Spaw was joking when he said that. But in the era before the invention of the tetanus shot, this was a deadly combination. In case no one has said it yet, 'leeze me on' is a corruption of 'lief is me,' which means 'dear to me.' The 'me' is dative, and this expression has a Germanic feel to it. This ties in nicely with the observation in another thread that broad Scots is derived from Lowlands dialects from across the sea to the east. Unfortunately that thread almost started World War III, so we won't talk about that. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:39 AM GUESTStoney You leave us Irish out of this, please - we have enough linguistic problems of our own! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: goatfell Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:31 AM pow is Scotland is head and so curly Pow is curly hair |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Stoney Date: 28 Feb 09 - 08:37 AM Being of a naval background, my mind naturally performed a gestalt interpretation of the line, "So, lease/leeze me on your curly pow", which became, "So ease me on your curly plow". Ireland was primarily an agricultural nation, so the reference to a "curly plow" would be in keeping as bawdy double entrandre to the sexual act. heh! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:02 PM I think her nuns have been attacking by night........... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:22 PM You been at that wine Micca left behind, Mary? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:21 PM Poor little angeleyes never came back. But this thread will never die. On this rock I stand; I shall not be moved. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: katlaughing Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:06 AM Well, it's been a long time since I've had to clean up the litter box, Spaw! (Been kinda missing it, but I hope ya dinna scare awa' puir angeleyes!**bg**) luvyaanywaykat |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Effsee Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:41 PM Angeleyes...""and WEEL I WAT he was worth his room" ... The translation would be... " And well I thought him worthy of his room". |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:37 PM I think it meant the W(H)EEL came off his cannon in the Crimean War. (See earlier post)....The WAT is an acronym used back then meaning Weapon of Awesome Terror which was a very particular type of cannon which shot both cannonballs and petrified horseshit in equal proportions. Horses back in those days were thought to run faster and longer after a good crap so shit was in good supply. The fact that the horses had not relieved their bowels has historically been seen as one of the major causal elements of failure in the charge of the Light Brigade (again, see earlier post) Always happy to help out on the infamous damned Dainty Davey thread. Now go away from this thread and enjoy some other part of the wondrous Mudcat Cafe......a fine place to be! Enjoy all the many things it has to offer but don't come back here again or I'll have to hurt you.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Burns lives Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:58 PM The most modern version can be heard here: www.myspace.com/whytemarket |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: help with translation From: GUEST,guest: angeleyes Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:48 PM I hope some one is still looking at this thread and can help me. I understand every line but one. Maybe i'm just lame but would some one translate "and WEEL I WAT he was worth his room" for me, PLEASE. Thanks |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Davy Date: 17 May 08 - 11:49 AM Here is a modern version hinting at what the words might have meant. http://whytemarket.com/id29.html |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:00 PM Oh Goodie. This is about to degenerate into "Who has the cutest name for his/her partner's nether regions. I read of one couple who called her breasts and privy parts Flopsie, Mopsie and Cottontail. Actually some guy wrote a book after collecting a few thousand of similar euphonisms. Ah Leeze me on your cottontail, Dainty Davey Dainty Davey. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Guest:: Lady Constance Date: 27 Mar 08 - 07:37 PM Of course according to some people the Covenanters were just another bunch of terrorists. Language is a wonderful thing, can mean such a lot in one word. Ever heard of euphemism? But why should sex stop it being a beautiful love song? What's wrong with sex? If I love a man I can get quite as romantic and sentimental about his genital region as about his head. The alternate history of the Crimea gave me a good laugh, thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,crazy little woman Date: 15 Dec 07 - 01:29 PM Poor spaw. He must have read my post above. 'if you have ever read the fiction of P.G. Wodehouse, you know that when a man slips into a bedroom at night, he is bound to knock over a table covered with china dogs or to step on a cat's tail. This is precisely what the Rev. Williamson did. He collided with a bunch of tirly-whirlies (knicknacks), and they o'd. (Went over.) Bertie Wooster would tell you that it happens every time.' ======= Let's face it, Spaw is a gallant and faithful man, but he is never going to be a Bertie Wooster. Nobody is ever going to invite him for a long weekend at a stately home. He will never have a Jeeves to do all his laundry and bring him a cup of tea in bed, to be followed by bacon, eggs and toast. Never will he go to a jazz club and swing a swift shoe till the wee hours. Wearing a tux. So what does Spaw do? Takes it out on Dainty Davy. I ask you! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 14 Dec 07 - 11:08 PM Spaw does not have crabs. He lives nowhere near the sea. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Degsy Date: 14 Dec 07 - 05:57 PM Spaw, You are a true wordsmith and worthy of high praise for an interpretation that is probably every bit as accurate as most of those before it and after it. Several interpreters with obvious Scottish credentials have said categorically it is head or heid and so be it. Nuff said. Except to say that I now also have a vision of wench rubbing butter on a dandy's scalded tallywhacker (cheers Sinsull) to contend with when singing what was my favourite song. Thanks for the giggles. Laughter is the best medicine. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Dec 07 - 05:22 PM Yeah Wee.....I want to give you a straight pow with my left and a followup cross pow with my right........................ Degsy, I'm sure mentioning Kelly is okay but next time mention the 49,361 interpreters on this thread and of course I should get a special mention for contributing all of that Crimean War history regarding the Curly Pow Warriors and the Dainty Davey Division. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Dec 07 - 04:47 PM well you wouldn't want a straight pow, would you? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Degsy Date: 14 Dec 07 - 04:40 PM I sang Dainty Davie at a party recently and jaws dropped. It has that affect on people here in Ireland I have noticed (the song, not my singing). Luke Kelly brought it here I think, with many other Scottish folk songs that Irish people think are Irish, and I sing his version (2 in the dbase - the CURLY POW version so you know I'm still on thread) and I am just amazed that having read the whole thread that he wasn't mentioned once, so I just thought I'd mention him, if thats ok with you Mr. Spaw. Luke sang it very straight and I have to agree with a previous poster that it is such a beautiful song that it seems a shame that it has such bawdy variations. I'd much rather be thinking CURLY NAPPER than CURLY MINGE when I'm singing it. Oh gawd, I don't know if I will ever be able to keep a straight face again. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 02 Dec 07 - 09:16 AM I love this thread... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 01 Dec 07 - 09:31 PM Who could possibly resist? Like the song but love the never-ending-thread. Sorry Catspaw, but as they say in "brawd suthren" SHEET FAR! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 29 Oct 07 - 05:05 PM Spaw has crabs??????????????? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 29 Oct 07 - 11:00 AM I always thought it was: 'Fleas be on thy girlie Spaw' ;o) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Young Buchan Date: 29 Oct 07 - 08:57 AM OK, I've solved this one: there is a sign in British Sign Language in which the pointed forefinger of each hand passes simultaneously over the signer's head from front to back. It is used to indicate a total failure to understand what is being said. It is often glossed as 'that went right over my head', but among the Deaf it is pronounced (and I don't have time to explain how a sign can be pronounced - you'll just have to take my word) POW! Simple then. Deaf person turned up to early song session with interpreter. Someone started to sing Dainty Davey. Interpreter tried to translate 'Leaze me on your curly...', but then realized it made no sense and went POW! And so it passed into the Tradition. Well, that's my story. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jim Lad Date: 06 Oct 07 - 04:23 AM "Have Hope" Haunts! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 06 Oct 07 - 01:20 AM http://www.emusic.com/album/10931/10931240.html lets you hear Navajo music as it might be heard at a pow wow. It's different. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,crazy little woman Date: 06 Oct 07 - 01:12 AM It's sad what propaganda will do to a sweet love story. David Williamson was a preacher and covenanter, a denomination that was cruelly repressed by the English authorities. He was fleeing a passel of soldiers (no doubt a bunch of thugs) when he came upon the house called Cherrytrees. (You don't suppose the soldiers were going to ask him for some ID, urge him to respect curfews, and let him be on his way, do you?) As it happened, the window into which he shot belonged to the daughter of the house. Now,if you have ever read the fiction of P.G. Wodehouse, you know that when a man slips into a bedroom at night, he is bound to knock over a table covered with china dogs or to step on a cat's tail. This is precisely what the Rev. Williamson did. He collided with a bunch of tirly-whirlies (knicknacks), and they o'd. (Went over.) Bertie Wooster would tell you that it happens every time. The daughter of the house looked upon his curly hair and his small but no-doubt-manly form, and saw that it was good. She did not want the soldiers to break his limbs or fracture his skull, so she hid him. In time she married him. As for all that stuff about her being unmarried and pregnant (how likely is that?) and Williamson having five or six wives - remember all that was in an account by his his enemy and persecutor. It behooved him to make Williamson look bad. As for 'leeze me on', it is a corruption of 'lief is me,' as mentioned already. the 'me' here is dative, so the phrase simply means dear is to me your curly head. Hurray for love! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 06 Oct 07 - 12:37 AM 'So what's a Pow Wow then?' Jim Lad, a pow wow is a get-together of Native Americans. It usually features dancing, drumming, food and other festive activities. To get an idea of what one is like, Google 'pow wow image.' |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 07 - 11:05 PM HMMMMM Maybe I will name the skunk Dainty Davey. Although I will keep his curly pow at a distance from now on. Not funny, Spaw. I stink; Seamus stinks; the yard stinks; the house stinks. More garlic than skunk. And I hate garlic. SIGH! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Oct 07 - 10:42 PM Keep it up Sins and I'll send you some more skunks to live under your shed! That's what you get for getting such enjoyment about this simpleshit thread! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 07 - 10:21 PM A very impressive Curly Pow. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Oct 07 - 09:57 PM So what's a Pow Wow then? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Peace Date: 05 Oct 07 - 02:15 PM A curly pow is a--sorry, be right back |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 05 Oct 07 - 02:14 PM LOL I too love Dainty Davie and am always pleased when someone refreshes this thread. Read it ALL THE WAY THROUGH and then ask as many questions as you like. heh heh Welcome! SINS |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Oct 07 - 01:54 PM You don't want to learn it. Go learn something else.
We have a ton of other songs around on this site....well over 10,000 as a matter of fact. Why not just skip this turkey? We have a bezillion variants on Barbara Allen if you like. And you want lullabyes? Yeah, we got 'em filling the diaper pail. Just screw Davey and his daintiness AND his curly pow!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Bass and viol Date: 05 Oct 07 - 12:55 PM At a party, someone requested this song, and we heard a similar lyric to what is in this thread. I am not a folkie, and I had never heard it before. I'd like to learn it, has anyone got a lead sheet for me? Also, I read a history that says the fiddle refered to in the lyrics was a double entendre, but see no fiddle mentioned in the lyrics in any of these threads. Anyone have a lyric like that?I was actually very dissappointed to learn this is a dirty song, it was so lovely, I assumed it was a lullaby. Refreshed! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: fumblefingers Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:55 AM curly pow = curly hair on the head, or so my old English literature teacher told our class 40+ years ago. Any other definition is nonsense. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:40 AM To us little lads in Lancashire streets in the 50s, pow meant haircut. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,mairin Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:26 PM sorry to revive it again but it has been asked what dainty might mean.. when my mother took out her giant dictonary( i think from around 1800s) dainty meant dear and sweet. althouggh i had never before this thread realised the naughtier connotations, that is what i would like to hold true. i think i like the love song version bettter, splashin' gravy sounds rather nasty to me. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Linda Mattson Date: 12 May 07 - 10:19 PM Sorry I didn't discover this thread seven long years ago. -Linda |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 07 May 07 - 09:14 PM This almost dropped off the bottom... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gurney Date: 06 May 07 - 09:36 PM Don't hold your breath whilst you are waiting for agreement here, Jim. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jim Lad Date: 06 May 07 - 08:13 PM So we're all agreed then? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Effsee Date: 06 May 07 - 07:57 PM Quite right Guest. Pow, AKA poll, as in tax. Head, Curly hair, nothing to do with hairy regions further south! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 06 May 07 - 03:40 PM Curly pow, curly head, 'nuff said. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jim Lad Date: 06 May 07 - 01:14 PM At the risk of raising the ire of Catspaw; Curly pow, unfortunately, does refer to a hairy region, further south than the forehead and the version which the original poster was referring to was by The Flying Column back in the early seventies. Light Ragade, as I'm sure someone has by now pointed out is actually "Life Brigade". It's a good wee song apart from the disguised reference to the hairy region. I would tend to explain that it means Hairy Chest if asked but so far, no-one has. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 06 May 07 - 12:27 PM Curling iron in hand - here I come, Spaw! I love this thread! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 05 May 07 - 06:48 PM .......awferchrissakes..............Refreshing this dumbass thread to give an answer that has already been given..............and then followed another already given as well..................geeziz......Curly Pow my ass............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Big Phil Date: 05 May 07 - 05:56 PM Curly Pow, pubic area I was always lead to believe. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,iewnw Date: 05 May 07 - 03:00 PM Pow means head, either the lump on top of your body or the head of a clan was called a pow |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 06 - 03:57 PM |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 17 Jan 05 - 06:15 AM "But turned and in a verra crack" Shouldn't that be "craic"? ;-) Oops, sorry, wrong thread. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gurney Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:16 AM Thought I'd keep this going, just so that 'spaw could moan some more. 'Lease', according to my old dictionary, means/meant a pasture or to pasture, but 'leath' has four meanings, two of which are 'ease' and 'intermission,' both of which make sense, considering poetic licence and the liklihood that there is some sexual meaning in there. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,ButterflyJulia Date: 16 Jan 05 - 11:13 PM Burns would often produce a number(6, 7, etc ) of versions of the songs he collected or wrote and some were indeed bawdy and directed towards pals who liked a bit of that with a drink or twa. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jan 05 - 09:09 PM Dear Lord, Send help. Please. Maybe a nephew this time? Anything. The Vibrating Turkey told me to ask you. And Lord? Be sure they don't have a curley pow, if you know what that is. Thanks Lord. Amen Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jan 05 - 06:40 PM Justine sang this at the Press Room on Saturday. It provoked some discussion between Barry and Jacqui which Jeri, I think, termed "foreplay". Didn't want any of the new members to miss this one. And, Spaw, a sports channel is advertising a gross beer sucking doll who shouts out numerous neanderthal sayings as he belches and farts. When it is reduced from $44.99 or shows up at a local yard sale I will get same for you. A perfect shelf mate for your singing lobster and bass. Love, SINS |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jeri Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM Was it the Songcatcher threads, or was it OH BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU ??? (Just wondering) Curley pow, Larry bam, Moe kerthunk... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:55 PM This thread is really incredible! Reiver 1 and I used to sing a version of this. Lovely melody. I don't remember whose singing we learned it from -- possibly Finbar and Eddie Furey. Reiver 1, though a Liverpudlian by birth was from a Scots family and explained to me that "curly pow" was a reference to a head with curly hair. I always thought that the "dainty" term was just an alliterative expression. I had no idea that in the original the song might have been based on an actual event and real people. I always took it to be just a bawdy ballad. We first learned a badly bowdlerized version which I haven't seen here. Perhaps because it's poorly done (even to the point where Dainty Davie is given as the man's name!): DAINTY DAVIE Once there was a tender maid She was mistress of her trade She fell in wi' a roving blade And his name was Dainty Davie. CHO: Leeze me on thy curly pow Bonnie Davie, dainty Davie Leeze me on thy curly pow He was her Dainty Davie. In through the window brought Weel's the pleasure she might tote The sweetest kiss she ever got Was from her Dainty Davie. CHO: Doon amang her faether's leas E'ee below the cherry trees There he kissed her as he pleased He was her Dainty Davie. CHO: (twa times) Later we found this, obviously earlier, version which we took to be the original. I think now that it wasn't, but at least it makes more sense than the "expurgated" version above. We Reivers always referred to this version as "Dirty Davie." The girl is speaking in this version. I'll only print the verses as the chorus is the same. DAINTY DAVIE Bein' pressed by the Dragooons In my bed he was laid doon Weel, I wat, he was worth his room My ain dear, dainty Davie My mither laid him at my back I trow he lay nae lang at that But turned and in a verra crack Produced a dainty Davie. In the field amang the pease Behin' the hoose and cherry trees Again he won atweesh my thies And, splash, gaed oot his gravy. Had I gowd or had I land It should be a' at his command I'll ne'er forget wha' he pat i' my hand It was a dainty Davie. Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Greyeyes Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:59 AM All we need now is for someone to resurrect a Songcatcher thread, or possibly all 27 of them, and Spaw's happiness will be complete. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Noreen Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:53 PM Yeehah! The 'Curly Pow' alarm awakes the Catspaw from his elongate slumbers! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:14 PM So "leeze me on your curly pow" means "Please let me extinguish your flaming pubic hair"? Or "let me coat your singed member with butter"? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:13 AM Light Brigades were specially trained in night fighting and carried torches into battle. After encountering initial successes against Buddhist Monks they were assigned to battalions fighting against the Curley Pow Warriors in Crimea. On the night of September 15th they devastated the entire Daintey Davey Division, setting fire to their curley pows and sending them running in flaming retreat across the battlefield with the Light Brigade in chase. The "blunder" oft referred to was that the Light Brigade followed too closely. When the flaming Curley Pow Warriors stumbled through an unseen fourth dimensional time warp encountering a future supply dump of the Nazis in WWII, the whole place blew up killing the remaining Daveys but also a goodly number of the Light Brigade as well. I hope this has been helpful and puts an end to this fuckin' thread. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Polish Boy Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:45 PM Hey, neat threads. Been singing this song, among many, to my daughter since she was an infant (she's 6 now)and was singing it tonight; she asked me again what a "curly pow" was. Mystery solved; I'll use the "I'm fond of your curly head" version to expalin it to her tomorrow. (Nice to know the "tirliewirlie" bit too; thought it was 'teary-weary'). Have a nice version on an old tape by a group of Scots/Irish/Boston musicians called "Tit for Tat" that has a variant on the last verse: When he was chased by the dragoon That's when I took him in my room I deemed him worthy of my ruin For he's my own dear Dainty Davey Question on the light brigade/Reverend Williamson bit. Was a "light brigade" not a military figure, as in "The charge of the Light Brigade" in the Crimean War? And what does this have to do with the Reverend Williamson? Am not a scholar just a guy in Cleveland who loves all manner of folk music and the stories bhind it. Would love to know. Peace to all. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 27 Sep 04 - 07:36 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,diana Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:53 AM peg, how was the singin at the banquet? When I heard Dainty davey on the bridge above the Laune, it was sung seriously, sincerely and with a great deal of confidence. There was nothing bawdy about it. It has certainly had a lasting impression on me. I only heard it once but I remembered the tune from over thirty years ago. It has stood the test of time and rings true. All you singers keep singin this one. When sung properly, the exact words don't matter anyway. Diana |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Snuffy Date: 15 Oct 03 - 06:46 PM So Emily Dickinson is an English poet? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Peg Date: 15 Oct 03 - 10:13 AM Just to clarify for you purists, the conference's title refers to poetry in the English language; this includes Scots (several papers on Burns) and translations... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Noreen Date: 15 Oct 03 - 05:42 AM Accepted, Boab and Wolfgang - just felt it needed noting though. Anyway, that was an aside from he question Peg was asking. Anyone any thoughts? I would say no, sing it straight in this context. Listeners will surely be aware of understated subtexts in songs of this nature. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Wolfgang Date: 15 Oct 03 - 03:49 AM I hate to contradict you, Noreen, but Peg is singing at a university on the continent: In our understanding, Burns had written 'English poetry'. Otherwise the words used would have been 'poetry from England' with Burns not being eligible. Peg, your choice meets the expectations of the host snd that's here the main thing. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Boab Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:55 AM Much of Burns' work is in English, Noreen. Nearly all of it employs more elements of the English language than would actually be employed in the everyday language, or dialects of the language, of the man-in-the-street [or the hills, or the fields, or the glens...]. Rabbie quite cheerfully mixed Scots and standard English where he found the need, or convenience, in order to achieve rhyme or meter. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 14 Oct 03 - 06:26 PM This is among my favorite threads. I hope someone decides to post a summary for those unable to read through all of it. I just interviewed with a guy named David. Maybe if I hum Dainty Davy (what will Spaw make of that?), I will get the job. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Noreen Date: 14 Oct 03 - 06:04 PM Peg, the songs of Robert Burns are not English poetry. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Peg Date: 14 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM ahem, sorry Spaw, but...I needs to know. I have offered to perform at a conference later this month, "And Never Know the Joy": Sex and the Erotic in English Poetry." (at the University of Leiden, Netherlands). Though my topic is not Burns, I have offered to sing two Burns songs at the banquet, and this is one of them... so my question is: should I act as though there is bawdy, secret meaning to these words? Or no? I see it as a sensual love song. I always assumed "dainty" referred to one of two things: his petite shape, i.e. small hands, etc. or the fact that he was gentle of manner and nicely groomed, what some these days might call slightly "effeminate" or somewhat feminine-looking...which some women find very attractive. The version I will sing will be essentially the lyrics found in the Digitrad, with a few lines borrowed from the Warlock Knowe version... peg |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Sep 03 - 06:26 AM "This could go on forever..." Yeah Gurney, that's my greatest fear............ Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gurney Date: 17 Sep 03 - 06:23 AM This could go on forever... I looked up the (originally) requested words in my 'Dictionary of Archaic Words,' archaic in 1840, that is, and... Lese = gather, collect, among other and similar meanings. Powe = finger, claw. Which could mean "crook your finger and I'll come" or something more personal as conjectured above. As for Arthur McBride, Didn't they 'knock that wee drummer as flat as a shoe?' |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Sep 03 - 11:08 PM .......geeziz......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: dbranno Date: 16 Sep 03 - 07:56 PM Here's another tuppence worth! 'Well-born' shentlemen didnae wear their ain hair in those days, they wore powdered wigs, elaborately curled, after the fashion of monarchs who had 'bad hair' or bad heids! Remember that washing the body wasnae verra popular in those times, and close cropped hair was less of a temptation to vermin. As to gibberish versions...I heard someone (who'd obviously heard only the Furious bros.) sing "Heave me on your burly prow" ! Ahhhh, the Mudcat!!!! where else? not very dainty Davo |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,damascus@ap.net Date: 16 Sep 03 - 06:55 PM I was brought up to understand that the young man was put into the maiden's bed with a "bundling board" between them. His penis being small, it fit through a knothole in the board and impregnated the girl. This was the "dainty" part! After all, it fit in her hand.... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 02 Sep 02 - 07:36 PM Just another name my mother used to call me (curly pow, I mean, not dainty Davie) as well as Tattie bogle. Sadly lost the curls by the age of 5! Davie seems to be the popular version of David in Scotland but don't know wht he was dainty! Tattie B |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Shonagh Date: 02 Sep 02 - 04:03 PM I always thought curly pow was just his hairy head!! ive half looked into this one and in all my scots dictionarys it said pow was a head, or forehead and curly im just guessing is his curly hair! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: diana Date: 01 Sep 02 - 05:02 PM Have you really killed this thread? I hope not. From an anthro. perspective, this has been very interesting. diana |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,diana Date: 25 Aug 02 - 12:50 PM Thanks, Gurney. Where was this Warlock Knoll? Perhaps this is the reason the clergy did not want this song to be heard. I find it curious that Dainty Davey is always referred to as "he". When sung by a man, does he refer to Davey as "she?" I'm confused. Did Burns often write from the female perspective? One more question - Is Davey a common name in Scotland? Is it gender specific? I remember hearing, "She stole the heart of the light brigade." Maybe its very old and Burns changed it into a bawdy tale for his day and age. Seems that Davey and Devi sound alot alike. I think this song has gone through many revisions. I wonder if anyone knows the original version or at least which version is the oldest that we know of. Keep singing your song. Diana
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Gurney Date: 25 Aug 02 - 05:16 AM About half-way down to here there was an post by guest Julia, and that was the version I've heard most, usually sung in female voices. The songbook I consulted way back when said a 'Warlock Knowe' was Warlock Knoll(hill), and even said where it was. Wassail. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Allan Dennehy Date: 24 Aug 02 - 06:00 AM I've sung Dainty Davie for a long time now and think that its one of the most beautiful songs of all time. I'm glad to know a little bit more of what I'm singing about now! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Boab Date: 24 Aug 02 - 02:50 AM A curly prisoner of war?---Aw---c'mon!!!1 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 23 Aug 02 - 09:31 PM Yum Yum? Sorry Spaw. I couldn't help it. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,diana Date: 23 Aug 02 - 04:34 PM O.K. so a pow is some sort of head but why was davy "dainty" ??? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Mr Happy Date: 23 Aug 02 - 05:38 AM POW?= prisoner of war |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Boab Date: 23 Aug 02 - 02:54 AM Pow---Scots for head. [The word is probably "poll" in English] Finbar Fury once told me that the Irish clergy disapproved of the song because the expression "curly pow" had lewd connotation; nonsense, of course. The word was common usage in our home dialect in Ayrshire. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 02 - 08:56 PM Oh you're goin' to the moon Sins.....Oh yeah......you're goin' to the moon... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 02 - 05:49 PM HMMMMM...very interesting thread. Anyone else have anything to add? Please! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 02 - 08:11 AM .....oh goodie............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jim McLean Date: 22 Aug 02 - 07:07 AM In Burns's JOHN ANDERSON MY JO he says "Blessings on your frosty pow" meaning white (wintry) haired head. A friend of mine always sang this verse, ending, "Ya baldy heided bastard"!! The other definition given for pow is pate i.e. head. Coming from Paisley some years ago, the word pow was commonly used for head. Sadly, words my father used are no longer used by Scots. Cheers, Jim mcLean |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,diana Date: 22 Aug 02 - 02:32 AM I first heard Dainty Davey sung by Shay Walker in 1969 at Puck Fair. I, too, questioned him about the curly pow. He had no answer which probably means it has more than one meaning. Never-the-less, the tune has stayed in my mind all these years and I often hum it to myself. Its beautiful and I encourage all you musicians out there to revive it. I'm sure curly pow means curly head but it might mean, "lay your head on my lap" which according to the music, seems right to me. I also heard light brigade which is lyrical as well, maybe even metaphorical. Its a song that is timeless and seems to defy logic and reason. Its a love song pure and simple. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:35 PM Still waiting.... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 12 Sep 01 - 07:58 PM So it really is pornography? Spaw needs a definitive answer. And I need a laugh. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM Yeah..........and gee I'm so happy you refreshed it for us.............................................. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Funsmith@msn.com Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:52 PM This has been an interesting read. I'd never seen the actual lyrics in print before. We were taught them at RenFaire as, "ease me on your pearly prow" Then there's the verse where he "was oft between her knees and soon gave out his gravy." It ended with... "Had I gold or Had I land, It would all be at his command, For I'll never forget what he put in my hand, It was his Dainty Davey." It sounded quite beautiful sung a capella in 4-part harmony. The ladies who regularly sang it got a kick out of folks saying, "Oh that was beautiful." when it was a song about a penis! And to think I found this whole thread just because I was searching for the lyrics. ; ) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Mark Cohen Date: 31 Aug 01 - 01:42 AM But everybody knows "Pow!" is really Batman for "Wham!" Aloha, Mark, still stuck in 1960s TV. (And I think "Snugcatheter" just about says it all....) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 30 Aug 01 - 11:26 PM Scots for "head", that is ...... Murray |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 30 Aug 01 - 11:25 PM Since the number of posts has reached 69, I thought it appropriate to make one more ejaculation. "Pow" is Scots for "hesd" it does not mean "penis", "chest" or "pubic hair" or any of the other half-baked suggestions above. How this thread went on so long beats me ....... Murray |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:41 PM Does she lean on his curly pow as she snakes her way in? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gareth Date: 30 Aug 01 - 03:29 PM Spaw - the thought of that makes my eyes water. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Aug 01 - 09:07 AM Actually "Songcather" is a medical training film detailing the a traditional method of catheterization that involves the nurse singing "Dainty Davey" to you as she threads a tube into your bladder. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 30 Aug 01 - 05:32 AM ...not written by Willa Cather, then, 'Spaw! RtS (no-one loves a smartass!) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Wolfgang Date: 30 Aug 01 - 05:24 AM Spaw: Is this song done in "Songcather" Though in Mudcat every seem themes to be covered in at least eleven, pardon me, ten, threads, I could find nothing about 'songcather'. However, a websearch was successful. In this site we find the following information: Songcather Drama about a music historian who visits North Carolina in the early 1900s to examine traditional Appachian Music. Deplorably, there was no information about the songs in this film. Spaw, I advise you if you are still interested in this information to start a new thread and not to bury your question in the middle of a thread about a different topic. By the way, the film 'songcather' as far as I understand the short description seems to merit its own thread. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dita (at work) Date: 30 Aug 01 - 04:34 AM Song is better known as "Rantin Rovin Robin" and is in DT. love, john |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Aug 01 - 01:02 AM Is this song done in "Songcather"??? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Boab Date: 30 Aug 01 - 01:00 AM Just an aside---once, browsing in a public library, I came across a notation in Robert Burns' handwriting against the song "There was a Lad was born in Kyle"[an autobiographical poem]; it said, "to be sung to the tune "Dainty Davie" ". A much better melody than the tonsil-fanklin'stuff rendered by Ken McKellar et al. Try it sometime. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:46 PM A curly pow is a head of curly hair, regards. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Boab Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:46 AM Finbar and Eddie once assured me [Hexham, circa 1965!]that the clergy in Ireland were dead against their singing of 'Dainty Davie" as the term "curly pow" was considered obscene! I gained the impression that the lads themselves were of the belief that it referred to something "naughty"; nonsense, of course---I assured them that brought up in auld Ayrshire, I heard the term many times in every-day conversation. The translation "curly head" is spot on. "Curly heidit" or "curly pow'd' were common phrases where I was reared. Boab |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Aug 01 - 10:08 PM Thanks Sins......thanks a lot.........and you too Wolfie............ Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 28 Aug 01 - 10:05 PM I just acquired a copy of Argo's Lyrica Erotica, Part 2. Now I know where to go to get an explanation/translation. Anyone got a spare curly pow, I can rest my head on? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Snuffy Date: 26 Jun 01 - 09:03 AM Spaw, When I saw this thread title back int the lists, I immediately thought how pleased you'd be to see an old friend pop up again. D'ya want me to revive the Goosie Goo thread as well? Wassail! V |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Big Tim Date: 26 Jun 01 - 03:39 AM Please; no more curly pow! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bob Bolton Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:44 PM G'day GUEST, a collector ... " ... adore your (short & curly) curly hair ...? The whole art of double entendre is in what else the words can mean or suggest. Regards, Bob Bolton
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,a collector of strange facts Date: 25 Jun 01 - 10:35 PM simple and easy, and from a reliable sorce ("my song is my own, edited by Kathy Henderson, et al, a wonderful song book, I recomend it highly): Oh leaze me on your curly pow= I much adore your curly hair |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Fergie Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:38 PM I repeat my assertion that a curly pow is in fact a hairy chest, not a penis. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Bridger Date: 04 Apr 01 - 04:01 AM This song, beautiful as it is, is pure folk porn. What was put in her hand was indeed a penis, a curly pow, in this case is what surrounds said object and said object is what was placed 'tween her thighs and you can guess what the gravy was that splashed out. Burns had a way of writing such songs, often not as nicely dressed up. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Fergie Date: 07 Mar 01 - 08:37 PM I have'nt time to read all his thread so I don't know if the q has already been answered. a curly pow means: a hairy chest. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: CarolC Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:50 PM Instant karma, Spaw. Remember the, *ahem* you know, the (killing the thread) thread? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:38 PM Gawd I hate this thread!!!! Specifically, the thread title. It first popped up here in my first 6 months on the 'Cat and the title drove me nuts. I'd be walking around singing little ditties with the line "what's a curly pow" in them in all sorts of variants. It finally disappeared and I was another few months getting it out of my head. Then it got refreshed....and refreshed again. And lo and behold I found myself doing it again. Then another refresh and when I thought it was finally over.........no......Again its back!!!! MUDGUARD---If I ever meet you in the flesh I'm gonna' give you a curly pow right upside your head!!! Geeziz.................... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Boab Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:30 PM Ye've had all the explanations that ye need, Mudguard, as to the meaning of "curly pow"---the head with deformed hair is exactly right---but I see you mention the version familiar to you as the one done by Finbar and Eddie Fury ['way back in the sixties]. A wee aside---while guesting at Hexham folk club, Finbar told me that the Irish clergy had condemned their singing of the song, being of the [nonsensical] opinion that curly pow was a reference to pubic hair.[!!!!] |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,barrysheridan Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:16 PM Cheers for clearing that up, it has been a source of argument between myself and my flatmate 4 years! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 17 Jan 01 - 09:50 PM Peg, next time I am in Boston I will be there, but I don't know when that will be. Murray |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jan 01 - 03:42 AM Trebor, yer among yer own kind now! None are worthy yet all are called to bide awee here! Be thou joined! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Peg Date: 16 Jan 01 - 11:33 PM Murray: Shay run out of Irish songs? Never!!! He is occasionally known to do a Scottish song or two; he is certainly a fan of Rabbie Burns... so if you know these folks; when are ye comin to the sessiun??? :) |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DAINTY DAVEY (Robert Burns)^^^ From: GUEST,Julia Date: 16 Jan 01 - 09:35 PM There is a very beautiful non-bawdy version of the song, by Burns, for those of you with tender sensibilities. It does not mention the afore-queried pow- the line is "Meet me on the Warlock Knowe" (no association with wicca) When purple morning starts the hare To steal upon her early fare 'T is to the woods I will repair A wandering wi' my Davey Oh meet me on the Warlock Knowe Bonnie Davey, dainty Davey 'Tis there I'll spend he day with you My ain dear Dainty Davey The crystal waters 'round us fa' The merry birds are lovers a' The scented breezes 'round us blaw Wandering wi' my Davey When day expiring in the west The curtain draws on nature's rest I'll fly tae him that I lo'e the best An' that's my Dainty Davey Burns also used this melody for the "Gairdner wi' his Paidle" This version is in the DT - (click) -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 15 Jan 01 - 01:07 PM Hey Peg, why is Shay singing Scottish songs ????????? Has he run out of Irish material? *G*. Regards to Barry and Shay and Judy et al. Murray |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 15 Jan 01 - 01:04 PM Bradypus, I remember Hercules escaping, but when you say he escaped to Uist, did he swim ? I can't remember the details, I remember he lived in the wild for some time before being recaptured. Andy Robbins, for those who don't know him, was an incredibly gifted wrestler who would have crushed any of the steroid-pumped freaks in the present-day WWF with one hand tied behind his back. Murray |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Peg Date: 15 Jan 01 - 01:00 PM Shay Walker sinsg this occasionally at our singers' ssessiun in Boston and does a great job. we had an interesting discussion about the lyrics one night after he sang it. I love the song and would like to record it myself one day.
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,trebor Date: 15 Jan 01 - 12:45 PM I loved this song by the Dubliners. Then I heard the Fureys version. I wondered about the chorus and did a search on google for dainty davey and came up with you lot! The internet is truly wonderful and I am not worthy! thanks |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Murray on SS Date: 09 Feb 00 - 02:12 AM Aye aye, Cap'n: the rowdy-dow-dow is the drum (an onomatopoeic sort of nonce-name). As for the stravaiging bear, what tune would that go to? Sounds as if it shd be "The Road to the Isles". |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bradypus Date: 08 Feb 00 - 05:22 PM Hercules the bear died yesterday.
Why does this matter to the current thread?
Hercules was a pet bear kept in Scotland by wrestler Andy Robbins. He once escaped, and made his way to Uist in the Hebrides, before being recaptured.
This escape was 'recorded' in a song by Scots folk duo Gaberlunzie.
The chorus ends
"You never will be poor Bradypus |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Cap't Bob Date: 08 Feb 00 - 05:08 PM Interesting thread ~ this clears up one line in the song "Arthur McBride" which goes: "And the little wee drummer, we flattened his pow". I always thought that pow probably meant drum (of course it could I suppose it could have meant the head of the drum?). The next question that comes to mind is is the following line: "We made a foot ball of his rowdy-dow-dow". Could the term "rowdy-dow-dow" refer to his drum? Cap't Bob |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Murray on SS Date: 08 Feb 00 - 03:34 PM "Leeze me" is in Chambers's Scots Dictionary, with a ref. forby to "Leese" -- John F has it right: "lief" is an old-fashioned sort of word (entirely obsolete in English) meaning "dear"; so "lief is me", shortened to "leeze me" or however you want to spell it (using the ethic dative, I suppose you could say) means "I hold dear", "I'm fond of", etc. "Jacob Curate" adds that "This whole story is as well known in Scotland, as that the covenant was begun and carried on by rebellion and oppression". As for the date, it precedes the book date by quite a few years. There are other remnants of the scurrilous tale--in Maidment's "A Packet of Pestilential Pasquils" (limited appendix to the 1868 edition of "A Book of Scottish Pasquils 1569-1715), p. 24, is a satire (one of many) on Williamson (no. X, 'Elegie on the Death of Williamson. By Mr. Finnie'), which contains the lines Ladies, with brinish tears bedew your cheeks, Ye've lost the three considerables in his breeks. I cannot comprehend his praise in verse, For Cherrytrees hath aggrandized his tarse,[= prick] So that in Venus' field he led the van; And Charles desired to see this able man, While in the oak, tho' he had a great soul, Had neither heart nor hands to wiled his pole; But he in hazard of life at Cherrytrees, Was bold to enter 'twixt the ladies thighs.[etc.] Maidment notes: "Charles the Second was so much astonished at Williamson's prowess, that he sent for the divine when in London." Williamson married his seventh wife, Mrs. Jean Straiton, on 20th May, 1700; he died 6th August 1706. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Dani Date: 08 Feb 00 - 08:05 AM I'm way out of my territory here, but am always interested in etymology. Where does 'dainty' come from, and does anyone know how it evolved from something that seems complimentary of dear Davey here, but not something you'd call him today? Dani |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Jon Freeman Date: 08 Feb 00 - 12:15 AM Chambers 20th Cetury English Dictionary has "Leeze me" as "(Scot) for lief is me, an expression of affection" Jon |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Abby Sale Date: 07 Feb 00 - 09:56 PM I didn't realize this was an old thread...thanks Patla6. Bruce, just to pick the nit, My Merry Muses does cite the episode. It's by Legman and when it comes to bawdy, Legman knows everything and writes about even more. He gives a brief account of the encounter and detailed citations for it. He gives the earlies printing of the song as Herd II. "Leeze" is poorly glossed. I've heard 'lay' often but that barely makes sense. Chambers Scots Dictionary doesn't give it and, sadly, Herd's own glossary doesn't either. MacColl gives 'dear is to me' but I have a feeling he's going by context, not other knowledge. Legman agrees with Cuilionn & gives 'my blessing on,' which does make contextual sense. No etymology though. All agree on 'head' for 'pow'. It''s a good tune, too. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MudGuard Date: 07 Feb 00 - 09:27 AM The lyrics are in the database under Dainty Davie. Click here. MudGuard |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Patla6@aol.com Date: 07 Feb 00 - 08:26 AM I see that this thread is about a year old, but in looking it over I couldn't find the lyrics to "Dainty Davy." My friends and I think we have them pretty correct off a Jean Redpath recording, but aren't sure of some of the words and from what I'm reading there may be other verses that would be fun to sing, maybe a bit randier than some of Jean's. Can somebody help me with as many verses (with translations, where necessary) as you know? I really enjoyed the discussion over "what's a curly pow" and other lyrics, some of which I hadn't heard. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 28 Mar 99 - 11:56 AM I ran across a verse in "The Cardinal's Coach Couped" reprinted from a broadside of 1711 in James Maidment's 'A New Book of Old Ballads', where the last one goes: You need not think I'm speaking lies,
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Alistair Date: 15 Mar 99 - 09:33 AM Thanks |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 10 Mar 99 - 02:40 PM I recently ran across an early reference to the tale of Dainty Davie in 'Scotch Presbyterian Eloquence', 1692. It appears that many knew about it except the editors of works containing primary copies of the song. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 02 Mar 99 - 12:01 PM Yes, thanks. The copy I saw was the 2nd. ed., 1693. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: skw@worldmusic.de Date: 02 Mar 99 - 03:02 AM Bruce - is this what you forgot to copy? [1692:] A party of King Charles II, his guards being sent to apprehend Mr David Williamson (one of the most eminent of their ministers now in Edenburgh) for the frequent rebellion and treason he preached then at field meetings; and the party having surrounded the house where he was, a zealous lady, mistress of the house, being very solicitous to conceal him, rose in all haste from her bed, where she left her daughter of about eighteen years of age; and having dressed up the holy man's head with some of her own night cloaths, she wittily advis'd him to take her place in the warm bed with her girl; to which he modestly and readily consented; and knowing well how to employ his time, especially upon such an extraordinary call, to propagate the image of the party, while the mother, to divert the troopers' enquiry, was treating them with strong drink in the parlour, he, to express his gratitude, applies himself with extraordinary kindness to the daughter; who finding him like to prove a very useful man in his generation, told her mother she would have him for her husband; to which the mother, though otherwise unwilling, yet, for concealing the scandal, out of love to the cause consented, when the mystery of the iniquity was wholly disclosed to her. ('Jacob Curate', "The Scotch Presbyterian Eloquence", quoted by Hamish Henderson in his article 'The Ballad, the Folk and the Oral Tradition', from Edward J. Cowan (Ed.), The People's Past. Scottish Folk - Scottish History, p 83f) After giving the note in Herd's 'Scots Songs' that Bruce quotes, Henderson adds: About the author of Andreas' song:
Really interesting thread! Thanks to you all, Susanne |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Wolfgang Date: 16 Feb 99 - 04:28 PM I hear what Barry hears. In the chorus, however, I hear the Fureys singing "curly brow" each time when it appears for the first time and "curly pow" the other times. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MudGuard Date: 15 Feb 99 - 07:34 AM I don't know who wrote down the lyrics. It was in the booklet of the CD, but there were lots of typos in the lyrics, but most I could find out... I'm going to listen to the song again for a few times tonight and see whether "briny" or "cried he" could be possible. Thanks so far Andreas
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barry Finn Date: 12 Feb 99 - 03:14 PM What I've heard is:
"My love, my love, my love cried he Barry |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barbara Date: 12 Feb 99 - 12:37 PM Andreas, was this translation done or the words created by a speaker-of-some-language-other-than-English? I think maybe the verse should be something like "Oh my love, my love briny.." which would match the longing for the sea. (briny=salty) In the rhyme scheme of your version, the first and third lines rhyme, so the first line should rhyme with "country". Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MudGuard Date: 12 Feb 99 - 08:03 AM No hints on the "brine he" part??? Might it be "bright head"??? Or is it (to speak with the Monthy Pythons) something completely different? Andreas |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barry Finn Date: 11 Feb 99 - 10:35 PM Hi Allen, I didn't mean Arthur (& Warren the bluegrass banjo player from the Northwest would be to young), I should've mentioned Argo was part of Decca Records & Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger recorded a series, each LP having a particular theme. Some in he series besides the "Amorous Muse" were the "Wanton Muse", the "Angry Muse", the "Female Frolic" & a few other. The series was put out around 20 years ago. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: allan S. Date: 11 Feb 99 - 09:28 PM Barry Finn you mention "Amorous Muse" by Arthur Argo. Was that book or a record that he did?? I have his "A wee thread of Blue" recording what is the other one and is it avalable. I met him 40 or so years ago when he was in the states. Allan |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 11 Feb 99 - 07:29 PM Whoops! I made an error in my first note above. Rev. Williamson died in 1706, not 1701. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 11 Feb 99 - 02:27 PM I saw the version of the tale of Rev. David Williamson and Lady Cherrytrees' daughter on p. 4 in the 2nd. ed., 1693, of 'Scotch Presbyterian Eloquence', and do not know for certain that it is in the original 1692 edition (there was at least one later edition also). I regret now that I didn't copy the anecdote. At the time I didn't realize it was the earliest account. I was after the comments on 'allowable' and not 'allowable' Scots popular songs of the time that appear later in the book (this I did copy).
According to Hans Hecht, 'Songs from David Herd's Manuscripts', the sole original source for the tale was the Memoirs of a Captain Cheichton published by Sir Walter Scott in vol. 12 of 'The Works of Johnathan Swift'. Hecht- "He [Creichton] is the sole authority for the anecdote". I haven't seen this, and don't know when the 1st edition of Scott's work was published, probably about 1820. The 2nd edition was in 1824. Neither Herd nor Burns could not have gotten his version from Scott's publication, and I doubt that either had seen any manuscript of Chreichton's 'Memoirs'.
Herd's footnote to the title 'Dainty Davie' in 'Scots Songs', II, 1776 is: The following song was made upon Mess David Williamson, on his getting with child the Lady Cherrytrees' daughter, while the soldiers were searching the house to apprehend him for a rebel. The note in Herd's manuscipts (reprinted by Hecht) is the same except the spelling of one word. Davidson Cook's article 'Annotation of Scottish Song by Burns', reprinted with Dick's 'Songs of Robert Burns' and 'Notes on Scottish Songs' by Folklore Associates, 1962, quotes Burns directly from a Edinburgh University Library MS [MS Laing II] as follows: This song, tradition says, and this composition itself confirms it, was composed on the Rev. David Williamson's begetting the daughter of Lady Cherrytrees with child, while a party of dragoons were searching her house to apprehend him for being an adherent to the Solemn League and Covenant. The pious woman had put a lady's night-cap on him, and had laid him a-bed with her own daughter, and passed him to the soldiery as a lady, her daughter's bedfellow. A mutilated stanza or two are to be found in Herd's Collection, but the song consists of five or six stanzas, and has merit in its way. The first stanza is:- Being pursed by the dragoons, ..... ..... We can see that this is somewhat embelished from Herd's account, and I've seen somewhere an account stating that Lord Cherrytrees was away from home at the time. I've also seen an account (maybe the same one) that Lady Cherrytrees had hidden Rev. Williamson under her daughter's bed, then left the room to confront the dragoons.
There are probably as many variant accounts now as there are versions of the song, but the only two 18th century versions known are those on my website.
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Subject: Lyr Add: DAINTY DAVIE (from Robert Burns) From: Alan of Australia Date: 11 Feb 99 - 05:55 AM G'day, From "Bawdy Verse And Folksongs" written and collected by Robert Burns, in a footnote to "Nine Inch Will Please A Lady":- Leeze me on; untranslatable expression denoting great pleasure in or affection for a person or thing. I also have a different version of the David Williamson connection, source unknown:- In 1715 a rebel called David Williamson escaped Hanover forces and stayed in a house where he met the daughter. This book has the second version given in the DT in a section called "Old songs used by Burns for polite versions". And in a section called "By or attributed to Burns - from printed sources" (Read on at your peril):-
Cheers, |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DAINTY DAVIE (from Finbar & Eddie Furey) From: MudGuard Date: 11 Feb 99 - 02:40 AM Thanks for all the answers I got (although it took me some time to understand the posting by Cuilionn, as my native tongue is German, English is only a second language for me, and "braid scots" is very hard to understand for me - I noticed on my bike trip thru Scotland last Summer) I looked Dainty Davie (or Davy or Davey) up in the database and noticed that "my" version is not there, so here it comes (see below). When typing it in I found another spot where I don't know what it means (or even how it should be spelled...). It is marked in red (html is very nice) below. If anyone has any idea about it, please help me out once again. I corrected "ragade" to "brigade" as Barbara suggested (it seems to make sense). cu, Andreas Dainty Davie as recorded by Finbar and Eddie Furey In yonder town there lived a maid Ah, she was the keeper of her trade She fell in love with a light brigade And his name was Dainty Davie Chorus [after each verse]: So, leeze me on your curly pow Dainty Davie, Dainty Davie, Oh, leeze me on your curly pow, You are my Dainty Davie. My love, my love, my love, brine he I have the longing for the sea I'll go defend my country Say farewell to Dainty Davie Three days and seven years were gone When she saw this figure came striding on Oh she knew it was her own true one Saying, come kiss me, Dainty Davie |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barry Finn Date: 10 Feb 99 - 11:12 PM There is a version that goes:
And all the tirliewirlies (intricacies) o'd The sweetest kiss that e'er I got Was from my dainty Davie
Dainty Davie, bonnie Davie Leeze me on your curly pow Mine ain dear dainty Davie And underneath the Cherrytrees (not plant life) O there he kissed me as he pleas'd For he was my dainty Davie When he was chas'd by a dragoon Into my bed he was laid down I thought him worthy o' his room And he's my dainty Davie^^^ The Rev. David helps Lady Cherrytree's daughter get pregnant (I guess he couldn't stick to preaching & had to be sticking to elsewhere), then he's to be apprended, for his dastardly deed, (while someone composes the song & she sings it) in her house by soldiers. This fragment is supposed to have been reworked by Burns into the longer song & is also sung to the air of the "Gardener's March". Bruce O, I think you knew the dirt here from Herd (I got this from MacColl, it's on the "Amorous Muse" by Argo), we don't want to be spared the details, when there's juice to the background we all want the down & dirty lowdown we want the smut, we'll also take any good gore too. Thanks, Barry |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bert Date: 10 Feb 99 - 04:56 PM Wasn't it the poll tax that started the peasant's revolt in 1380-something? Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bruce O. Date: 10 Feb 99 - 04:51 PM No editor of 'The Merry Muses of Caledonia' (Barke/ Smith/ Ferguson, G. Legman, Duncan McNaughton) or editor of Burns' songs (James Dick, James Kinsley) that I know of, or Hans Hecht in 'Songs from David Herd's Mansucripts', seem to be aware of the early (1692) account of Rev. David (Dainty Davey) Williamson's seduction of the daughter of Lady Cherrytrees that I cited, along with the 'Merry Muses' and earlier Herd versions of the song, in Scarce Songs 2 on my website. According to an account related by James Dick, (Songs of Robert Burns, p. 474) the seduced daughter who supposedly sings our song here was later one the 7 wives of the Rev. David Williamson (d. 1701). 'doty poll' (crazy in the head) was a 16th century slang term for a chronic alcoholic.
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Cuilionn Date: 10 Feb 99 - 03:58 PM Och, aye... I'm sae prood o' ye; an' they're guid guesses a'. Ye are richt on th' mark wi' "pow" meanin' heid, aye, but I'll gie ye a loof (a hand) wi' th' ithers. "Leeze me on", accordin' tae ma sources, comes frae th' aulder "leis me" meanin' "dear is tae me". Th' phrase can be translatit, dependin' on context, intae sic variations as "how weel I love", "blessings on", "commend me tae", an' sae forth. In 'tither sang, "John Anderson, ma Jo", I've seen th' line "leeze me on yir frosty pow" rendered intae th' wairds "blessings on yir frosty pow". In this case, I'd be sayin' th' maist likely translation is "Fondly dae I think upon..." wi' th' caveat that Barbara's translation is entirely plausable as weel. Regardin' th' spellin' o' terms, there wis nae standardized spellin' for Braid Scots altho' some scholars are ettlin' (tryin') tae set rules doon th' noo. Ye can jist wricht things oot as it pleases ye tae dae, an' auld Rabbie Burns is as guilty as ony o' us. If ye survey his wairks, ye can find a progression o' favoured spellings, subject tae ilka whim an' dram that cam alang. Finally, ain last bit: I'm inclined tae echo th' sentiment that "light ragade" is mair properly renderit as "light brigade." --Cuilionn |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bert Date: 10 Feb 99 - 12:27 PM Barbara, That's just what it says in "The American College Dictionary" pow n, Scot & N Eng. the poll; the head. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barbara Date: 10 Feb 99 - 12:02 PM Perhaps "pow" is just dialect for "poll". The version in the database is written out in braid scots, as Cuillion would say. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Martin _Ryan Date: 10 Feb 99 - 11:42 AM "poll" in the sense of "head"? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Bill in Alabama Date: 10 Feb 99 - 10:35 AM I think that Barbara's right. I seem to recall that there's a line in Burns' poem JOHN ANDERSON in which either pow or po' is used clearly to refer to head. Unfortunately I can't remember the line or in which version of the poem it occurs (there are several), and I don't have the time this morning to run it down. If some other 'cat doesn't clear it up, I'll get to it as soon as I can. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Barbara Date: 10 Feb 99 - 09:30 AM That's interestin'. In all the versions I knew, the word was "pow" though the meaning is the same -- head or forhead, and I learned "leeze", meaning "lay". So the line is asking Dainty Davey to "lay on me your curly head". I don't know the version you're doing, Andreas, and that sounds a bit like a generic first verse.(Maybe borrowed from "I'll go no more a-roving"). The version I am familiar with is in DT under [Dainty Davie]. The third line makes me wonder if Davey was IN the "light brigade". Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GEORGE HENDERSON Date: 10 Feb 99 - 09:06 AM ANDREAS The word is PROW and means forehead I think George |
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Subject: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: MudGuard Date: 10 Feb 99 - 04:12 AM Can someone here please tell me what a curly pow is? It is mentioned in the chorus of the song Dainty Davy So, lease/leeze me on your curly pow Dainty Davy, Dainty Davy, Oh, lease/leeze me on your curly pow, You are my Dainty Davy. All I could find in all the dictionaries known to me is POW - prisoner of war which I can't believe to be the meaning here. And while we are at it - is it lease or leeze? I have seen both words in different prints, I can't find leeze in any dictionary, and for lease I only found a meaning similar to "rent". So what is it supposed to mean? And another one from the song's first verse: In yonder town there lived a maid Ah, she was the keeper of her trade She fell in love with a light ragade And his name was Dainty Davy What's a ragade??? I have all these words printed out, so it cannot be a mishearing by me - but I would not exclude typos. Thanks in advance cu, Andreas |
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