Folkies 'n' beards 'n' sandals. Connection?

Subject: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:09 AM

The old defensive "We don't all have beards and wear sandals" bit has just come up again on another thread, Fashionable Folk, re a somewhat fatuous article on current folk trends in The Spectator, whose author intros his piece by mentioning beards, tho sandals don't figure anyhow.

But let me just remark that I have had a beard [the present one anyhow] for 14 months now & it infinitely licks shaving every day; and I wear sandals when weather permits because they are comfortable and getting socks on at my age is no joke.

This has no connection whatever with the fact that I sing, and enjoy, and like reading about and contributing to forums on, folksongs. It is entirely independent.

Out of interest, how many of you likewise happen to have beards and/or wear sandals, but do not feel this in any way relevant to your "folkie" status?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Adam Smith
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

I have a beard when I forget to shave for too long, which then becomes too uncomfortable to shave, which then becomes a beard until that becomes too itchy and then it all comes off again.

I have sandals when I'm somewhere nice and hot. Abroad mostly.

I have no patterned sweaters. I don't smoke a pipe. I enjoy real ale and real good whisky.

Can't think of any other stereotypes.

Oh - When I sing I neither cup my ear or stick a finger in.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: C-flat
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

"This has no connection whatever with the fact that I sing, and enjoy, and like reading about and contributing to forums on, folksongs. It is entirely independent"

But can you be sure?

Maybe it's a genetic predisposition that you're unaware of...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:20 AM

I do not have a beard and never shall have.

I do wear sandale sometimes.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:20 AM

I had a beard in my 20s and, latterly, one for the last 3 years - and on and off in between. The current one is permanent.

As for sandals - a must in the summer - no socks by the way. And I've played rock'n roll, funk and jazz in beard and sandals...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:25 AM

Don't forget the pony tailed guys either ... LOL ...
well I am clean shaving but I once had a beard and for about 20 years had just a mustache ... got rid of the thing as I started to gray up

now sandals, pretty darn cold for them but walking on the beach yup still use em

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Green Man
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:28 AM

Every one knows you can't 'folk' properly without sandals on.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:31 AM

Has anyone noticed the folk stereotype is 'male'? ;)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gavin Paterson
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM

It is?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:36 AM

No beard and a cropped head. But I do wear sandals, especially at festivals, but not with socks. Oh well, at least my feet are folkie!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:40 AM

I've had a beard since Easter 1967 when I was hitch-hiking round Ireland and cut my thumb on my (safety!)razor. I wear sandals most of the time nowadays because of damage to my feet caused by safety(!) boots - the only toe that's ok is the one that minor surgery. I drink real ale (and continental lagers, white beers, dunkels etc) and single malt whiskies. Don't smoke and hardly ever wear a jumper becausde it's too warm this far south (Chester). About the only time I cup my hand over my ear when I'm singing is if I'm in a choir and I'm too near the tenors.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:46 AM

I don't conform to any folk stereotype (geeky/nerdy type yes but folkie no).
I don't nor am I ever going to have a beard, I don't own a proper jumper, I hardly ever wear sandals coz they rub my feet if I don't wear tights/socks with them and I stick my fingers in both ears when I don't like what I'm hearing. ;)
I'm also under 30 and female. :P

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: John P
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM

A group of us who had front row seats at a folk concert were approached by a guy who started his conversation by saying, "Oh look at all the good folkies in their folkie clothes." After making this somewhat snarky comment, he went on to ask if one of us would take his back row seat so he could have a front row seat. Needless to say, he didn't get much traction. My question for him was, "Are we dressed like this because these are folkie clothes, or are these folkie clothes because we're wearing them?"

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Ernest
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

Grown a beard 1n 1980: about six years after I started listening to folk music seriously, about 15 years before I began playing an instrument. Now tell me if that has any meaning.

Sandals when the weather/social circumstances allow it.

No alcohol, no smoking.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM

You forgot the Muesli, 2CV, CND badge and copy of the Guardian.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:19 PM

Also, socks must be worn with sandals - no flip flops.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gozz
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:20 PM

I have had at least some facial hair for all my adult life and the beard has been there for about 26/28 years. I don't think that I could cope with shaving now. I also wear sandals when the weather permits because it means that I have less clothes to wash and it is comfortable.

Yes I do wear folkie clothes as much as I can. I enjoy the lifestyle and make no bones about it. The thing is, it doesn't bother me what judgements others wish to make about me or the music I like. It is my life and I will live it my way.

If folk music were to become more acceptable to the mainstream public I would worry that someone in the "Music Industry" would start to get their greedy mits on all sorts of aspects of our music and the sub-culture that goes with it. If that happened, it would loose all it's spirit and reality. Do we really want to see this happen?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Nobodys bard
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:37 PM

I've got a beard & sandals .... & a tank top .... can't stand folk music though ... 'orrible whiny stuff!


I'll get me coat ...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

Perhaps the idea is, this kind of thing (ie folk music, beards, sandals) puts-off the kind of people who are well worth putting-off.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM

Would that be a duffel coat then?

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Marje
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:12 PM

Yes, it's interesting, as LDT says, that the folk stereotype, in the UK at least, is generally male. When I said I was involved in folk music, someone once said they'd expected be to be a Julie Felix-type singer with a guitar on my knee, but that's an American model rather than a British one (and it's not me!).

I wonder, when people evoke the steroetype of the beard, sandals, pewter tankard, etc, what they think the female equivalent is?

For what it's worth, I'd say there is a high proportion of beards in most of the folkie community that I mix with (only among the men, you understand), and possibly a preference for sandals and tankards on some occasions. The Aran sweater and the finger-in-the-ear are almost extinct folkie traits, although they are still regularly alluded to by lazy journalists. But what do these people imagine distinguishes a folkie female? I'd really like to know.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:25 PM

I so want a duffle coat!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: acegardener
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:39 PM

Don't forget the red spotted hankerchief tied around the neck.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM

I've had a beard for 20 years but have never owned a pair of sandals other than cheap flip-flops for around-the-house wear.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:52 PM

I've had a beard since 1958, before I was a folkie. Delicate skin and shaving heavy whiskers = pimples.   Trimmed beard, though.
I don't habitually wear sandals.

I don't really understand why shaving caught on with such lasting popularity. Surely, bearded is what a man should look like. Caucasians, anyway.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:13 PM

Worn a beard most of my adult life, usually very close trimmed. Grew out of my last pair of sandals at the age of 12. Usually turn up at folk clubs in a business suit because I can't be arsed to get changed after work.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:17 PM

Brown boots rather than sandals for me. As for the beard, it grows of it's own accord unless I shave the lower part of my face - which seems as odd a thing to do as it would be to shave the top of my head. Which of course some people do.

But nobody ever seems to say "why do you grow hair on your scalp?" I've never understood that difference.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM

Brahn Boots? You can't go to a funeral in brahn boots!

Boots should be black, as God ordained!

Can't think where the second quote came from.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM

I have a beard. I've had mine for over 30 years in spite of my kids' occasional attempts to get me to shave it off. I grew it after my first folkie phase but long before the second one.

I mostly wear sandals these days because they are comfortable.

Female equivalent? Long straight hair - well over the shoulders - and baggy sweater.






Oh! and sandals, of course!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM

Beard since September 1967. I did go to Cambridge folk festival in 1974, and had a flirtation with folk in I think late 1975, but mostly I had no interest in folk until about 1990.

Not keen on sandals.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:32 PM

Folk - yes; since the age of 14 (1975) with roots going back through Folk-Psychedelic-Pop since the age of 10 (it was the Strawbs who got me into dulcimers with Witchwood in 1971 touching on earlier native inspirations with Northumbrian Smallpipes & Highland Bagpipes - especially Piobaireachd, which isn't folk, though it is traditional) - although never exclusively: I have parallel passions for free-jazz, improv, electronica, Kraut, ethno, medieval, punk, metal, renaissance, post-punk, avant garde, prog, baroque, exotica, hip-hop, etc. etc.
Beard - yes; never been keen on shaving, bearded since 15 with a brief period shaven circa 1999-2002, aged 38-40.
Sandals - yes; and I wear them with boot socks in winter, regardless of the weather, but if things get too extreme I wear my Doc Martens, but never without my Barbour; an essential pairing - like I only drink tea with fish & chips.

The connection? An inner yearning for the primal wilderness.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:34 PM

Alopecia universalis so no chance of a beard, but I wear sandals as soon as I think it is warm enough and change to shoes/boots when it becomes too cold. Still sandal weather in Kent at the moment. At least for me.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:38 PM

Lemme see, now. When I was singing most actively back in the late 1950s and 1960s (lots if coffeehouses and college concerts) I usually wore a pair of slacks and a shirt, pair of shoes (not sandals). Clean. Me too. Bathed, clean shaven, recent haircut. Didn't smoke dope. Sometimes for concerts or other gigs (banquets, concert at the Seattle Public Library, etc.), I often wore a pair of grey flannel slacks, a cotton turtleneck (rather than a dress shirt, because I didn't want a tie-tack scratching the back of my guitar), and a navy blue blazer (plastic rather than brass buttons—again to avoid scratching my guitar).

I did have a beard for about a year and a half. But that was when I was working for the telephone company in the early 1980s.

For gigs these days (including folk festivals, occasional concerts, and such), I still dress neatly. Informally if it's a folk festival, suit or blazer for concerts (I get a few early music buffs in my audiences, who might be turned off if I came out in bib overalls. They come to hear the songs, not to marvel at how "folkie" I am).

You don't have to look grubby to sing folk songs and ballads.   CLICKY.   Or for that matter, CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

hi

No beard......

Do wear sandals; but they are proper walking sandals. Wear em in the summer without socks and only in the house in winter with socks......instead of slippers.

I'm not grumpy, so folk off !!%%&!!

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:56 PM

This seems to be another of those things where it makes a difference which side of the Atlantic you live...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM

I have been a folkie (in the sense of singing songs sung by people known to me) since 1939.
I have had a beard, without interruption, since 1965.
I wear sandals in a narrow range of circumstances, but my usual footwear is slippers indoors & boots outdoors.

There was another thread about this a while ago. The most plausible suggestion on it, IMO, was that the common cause is independence of mind. People who are willing to be musical deviants are likely to be willing to be sartorial & grooming deviants.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:57 PM

Beard, but only so there is some hair around my head, as most of what was on top has long gone!

Mrs Hound, who loves her folk just as much as I, says she likes a beard, but has yet to grow one herself. She does do sandals in the summer, but I'm more of a boots or trainers man myself.

I will confess to owning a pair of sandals, but would of course only wear them accompanied by an arran sweater.

Not entirely comfortable with the concept of being a musical or sartorial deviant though!

John

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:17 PM

Having HAD to shave daily for fourteen years , as soon as I was promoted to Mister I stopped ! And I wears Neckscarves and waistcoats
and Desert boots rather than sandals . And Hats ! AND a Ponytail !

And I AM a Folkie ! LOL

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:54 PM

Leadfingers, do tell us what you were before you were promoted to Mister! I was Master, but I didn't have to shave then.

The only other thing that I could think of was demister.;-)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:40 AM

"Having HAD to shave daily for fourteen years , as soon as I was promoted to Mister I stopped"

Um, was that when you stopped cross dressing?

Sorry - couldn't resist...

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:46 AM

I had been on the folk scene for twenty years before I grew my first beard (thought that I might look scruffy facing the public at work while growing one until then).
Wear sandals in the summer, never with socks, but more than often it is trainers.
Used to smoke a pipe as well as tabs and cigars until I stopped smoking thirty years ago and drank real ale until I knocked beer on the head five months ago.
The best one I heard was a couple of years ago when a theatrical friend of mine introduced me to some of his troupe by saying "Dave writes the Folk column for The Post; but you wouldn't think it to look at him!"

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:52 AM

Re the thread title; if there is a connection between your beard and your sandals, you either have a very long beard or very short legs.
Tim (bearded since 1973, sandal wearer in the summer, when I am excused socks until the weather turns cold.)

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:25 AM

There is a very similar piece of nonsense in the current Cotswold Life magazine, which I happened to glance at while I was staying down there recently. The author was complaining that a friend, a music journalist, had given him a Richard Thompson CD. He believed that his friend must have assumed he had gone yokel (not his words) since moving to the Cotswolds and would therefore be interested in folk music (never mind that RT is an internationally acclaimed songwriter and guitarist). In the course of the article he writes about folk song and folk singers in a way which suggests he has not listened to or seen either.

It's perhaps to be expected that a journalist in a hurry will resort to stereotypes, if only to get their message across with the minimum of words. It's less forgiveable in a lengthy and presumably thought-out magazine article. What I find annoying is that the stereotypes are at least 40 years out of date - now that is lazy journalism. No journalist writing about contemporary popular music would refer to "beat combos" or "mop-heads". If they're going to use stereotypes, let them at least be accurate and up-to-date ones.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,Raymond Greenoaken
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:41 AM

When I'm performing I usually wear a suit. Because that's what Seamus Ennis did: a folk musiciian, I believe.

No beard. Not now, not never.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:48 AM

'If they're going to use stereotypes, let them at least be accurate and up-to-date ones.'

Now come on Howard, you can't make a statement like that without giving us an up-to-date stereotype to work with!

In a previous life I ran my own estate agency business (No, no, please don't hate me! there are some honest ones out there) and used to take great delight in the number of people that said 'you don't look like an estate agent'

Of course, the big question is do I look like a Folkie?

John

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:05 AM

Waistcoats! I've got lots of waistcoats - wear them every day with collarless shirts. Mrsleveller was watching Edwardian Farm the other day and swore that they'd raided my wardrobe. My, how we laughed!

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

Anyone with a beard and sandals, but with no connection between them is obviously not all there.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM

"Female equivalent? Long straight hair - well over the shoulders - and baggy sweater."

well I don't conform to that either. lol
I'm more of a shirt dress or smocktop dress thing with tights/leggings, denim jacket, hat and boots or trainers.
Although sometimes I'll choose and era and dress to that like regency or edwardian just for fun.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:21 AM

I've had a beard since 1981. I used to go back and forth between that and clean shaven. Don't wear sandals. I've always been a folkie fan and performer. I haven't worn jeans in years.

Subject: RE: Folkies'n'beards,'n'sandals. Connection?
From: BobKnight
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:59 AM

I've never had a beard, and I don't wear sandals. However, in recent weeks I have been seen about town wearing an old pair of trainers with the toe-caps cut off.(no sandals) This is due to the fact that I had both big toenails removed and can't wear shoes for the time being. (ouch)

If asked about it I offer the explanation that I'm trying to start a new fashion trend called, "Wino-Chic."

Or... I've just come back from Paris where I visited an exhibition called, "The Gestapo Experience."