Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: matai
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 07:33 AM

Over thirty years of the most unique and extraordinary songwriting that most of us have ever heard deserves a phd. If I have to listen to blokes sing I'd rather listen to Dylan than any other because its what he sings that does it for me. He may have an unusual sounding voice but I've never heard him sing out of tune. To sing blowing in the wind the way he does takes some ability, it is almost like the fore-runner of rap. And "To make you feel my love" is one of the most excellent love songs I've ever heard, although sometimes I prefer Gilly Darby's version. She did bring it alive for me.

As for:

'Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted frightened trees, out to the windy beach
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about to day until tomorrow.'

Do you know anyone else who could have written that?
And did Keats really do any better than that?

matai

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 08:13 AM

He wrote some go0d songs...he also stole some good songs.

How many times have we seen that comment, or something to that effect, every time something about Dylan comes up on Mudcat? The answer, my friends, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.

But any time you come down on Dylan for that, you're also coming down on A.P. Carter, Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Tom Paxton, Brownie McGhee, Utah Phillips, Si Kahn, Tom Russell, Arlo Guthrie, Dave Van Ronk, Rick Fielding, Jim Ringer, Jimmy Driftwood and virtually every other songwriter rooted in the folk traditions.

Taking old songs and updating them, or changing them to suit the needs of the person, or the times, is what the folk process is all about and it goes back centuries.

If you've read Pete Seeger's books, or Sing Out! columns, and you'll know that he's always encouraged people to take older songs and transform them.

One of the things that have made Dylan such a great songwriter is his openness to, and vast knowledge of, the folk tradition.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 09:33 AM

Having a good voice is quite obviously not the same thing as being a good singer. Do you rate every owner of a Martin as a good guitarist? I recall Don Firth on a singing thread quoting his voice teacher on Caruso, "Like hearing a Stradivarius played like a baboon". It's what you do with those vocal chords that matters - and for me Bob Dylan makes the right kind of noises.
I am also baffled as to how one can describe the author of Blowing in the Wind, Ballad of a Thin Man, I'll Be Your baby Tonight and Mississippi as a one dimensional artist. Martin Gibson, you must have some harsh words for Cole Porter...

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM

Actually, I understand where Martin is coming from. Dylan's voice really grates on the ear of some people. I think that those of us who enjoy Dylan are simply adapted to his vocal work. I have always loved Dylan's words and phrasings--I even enjoy his mistakes. I think when history has its say--as it's beginning to now--Dylan will be considered a writer who ranks up with Joyce, Thomas, Yeats, The Bard, and certainly with any songwriter who's ever lived. It was Dylan's "L a R Stone" that finally got AM radio to play something longer than three-minute songs. I recall that at one time in the '60s, Billboard listed seventeen of Dylan's songs in the top fifty being played. To quote another giant in music, "Oh, yeah, the boy can play."

Gotta go.

Bruce M

PS Dylan's rewrites of other songs generally made good improvements. Who among us has not been influenced by the writings of others.

BM

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 01:53 PM

Dylan also gives credit where it is due. I seem to remember Martin Carthy being mentioned on of Dylan's album after Dylan "borrowed" Lord Franklin from Carthy. The folk process at work is what you are seeing - not stealing.

Of all the "folksingers" from his era, he is one of the few that continues to perform traditional music in concert - something he doesn't have to do given his body of work.

Dylan is what Dylan wants to be.   He doesn't try to live up to someone elses image anymore.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 02:12 PM

I have no quarrel with his "updating" old songs. However, he took a song from one of his friends and rewrote it, made a mint and kept it.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 02:46 PM

Yeah, Dylan made a lot of money with his songs.

But did you have any idea that he's supported, and continues to support, a lot of older blues and traititonal folk musicians, and that because of him they've had dignified old ages?

Did you know that after Moe Asch died, Folkways Records almost died with him, but Dylan provided much of the financiang for the Folkways collection to be transferred to the Smithsonian?

Did you know that when Sing Out, the same magazine that savaged Dylan when he began writing personal songs and when he went electric, was in big financial trouble, Dylan made donations that saved the magazine.

That stuff is just the tip of the iceberg and you don't know about almost any of it. That's because, unlike most celebs, Dylan keeps quiet about it.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Bearheart
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 03:47 PM

It probably just comes down to pheromones, or astrology, or personal taste(!). I started listening to Dylan when I was 12-- his early albums influenced me a lot, because I was idealistic and those songs spoke to me, and his voice (I still think) suited his songs. I loved to listen to him. I can think of lots of folk singers who had much rougher voices than his. Blonde on Blonde was probably the last album of his I bought-- I'd been captured by Celtic/British music and Old Time music, and had limited pennies. But over the years I've heard some of his newer stuff and found occasional gems. I still like his early stuff best. But then, astrologically speaking, my chart and his resonate, so it doesn't surprise me. I don't think we all have to get turned on by the same stuff. What does surprise me is such over the top reactions as some people here have expressed. (Though I feel pretty much that way about George Bush! No use for him. I think he's unethical, greedy and a lot of other unsavory things-- now there's someone who has really hurt some people. I guess we all dislike someone.)
As for the Dr. I know some PhDs who supposedly earned them that I wouldn't give you two cents for. The sad thing is having those degrees made them EXTREMELY arrogant and officious. It's really not black and white, guys...

Bekki

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 08:13 PM

"he took a song from one of his friends and rewrote it, made a mint and kept it."

You say that like he committed a crime. If you write a song on a Gibson guitar, do you send them a royalty check?

Kendall, the song you referred to - "Don't Think Twice" was a song that he heard from Paul Clayton. Clayton wrote a song called "Whose Gonna Buy You Ribbons". The story goes that Dylan heard Clayton sing it and then said that he was going to write a song. Apparently it became a legal question, and it was discovered that Clayton used an old song called "Whose Gonna Buy Your Chickens When I'm Gone".    Who owns what?

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 09:00 PM

No comment

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 09:02 PM

I'm a bit sensitive to this because I also wrote a song which a friend took, added a little bit recorded it and made some money. I got squat from it.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 09:06 PM

Sorry Kendall, I do understand your position and I agree with you. Creative ownership is an important topic.

My point with Dylan is that the song was based in public domain to begin with. The circumstances between Clayton and Dylan may be a bit cloudy (read Anthony Scaduto's take on it)but from what I've seen, Dylan does seem to give credit to others where it is due. He credits the Clancy's for their influence on his career, as well as the well-documented "mentor" of Woody Guthrie. The folk process can be difficult.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Ed T.
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 11:11 PM

Dear Kendall,

I'm so sorry to hear about your being ripped off like that by a "friend." Is it a song we would know? Is the "friend" someone we should watch out for in song circles? Did you ever consult with a copyright lawyer? I've heard there have been some substantial financial settlements for composers who have been able to show that their work was stolen in this manner.

Ed

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Banjoke
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 05:22 AM

Tune in next week and hear Dr. Bob say, " The times they are a changing."

Post modernism and Dylan studies: Discuss

I wonder what would be left if we removed the threads from the under 50's! If you were not there it is difficult to understand the difference Dylan made to music. Oh, by the way, not every Dr. can cure your bellyache.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 07:31 AM

I never copyrighted the piece, and I did share it with him because of mutual experiences, but the royalties I got were a joke.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Smokey Green
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 08:56 AM

If you wanna get to get rich, I'll tell you what to do
You got steal yourself a song or two
Take out a copyright, put it on a CD
Then you'll be as rich as me
I'm talkin' 'bout women, houses, cars,
And hangin' out with Baw-B Dylan
Take it easy, but take it.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 08:47 PM

HAW HAW good one Smoke!

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 08:56 PM

If it was that easy, almost everybody would do it... :-)

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 09:28 PM

I certainly didn't mean to imply that he got rich! It was a small company and I'm sure he didn't make a hell of a lot either. That wasn't the point of my post.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 10:23 PM

I'm not losing it, Little Hawk. Yes, I am a singer and I respect the ability to sing. I also respect songwriters.

I just can't stand songwriters who can't carry a tune and can probably eat a can of beans and fart in pitch better than their voice.

But there have always been a lot of ear doctors making money out there.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 10:54 PM

GUEST, Banjoke:

Please elaborate on your question...

Martin:

Bad news. You may be a great musican but I have my doubts about you as a "singer".

Bobert

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Big Tim
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:54 AM

There is a small article about it on the st andrews web site...

http://calvin.st-andrews.ac.uk/external_relations/news_article.cfm?reference=653

and info on the professor, Neil Corcoran, an Oxford education poet, at

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/english/corcoran/home.html

The above from my daughter, who's trying to get me a ticket for the ceremony this Wed afternoon, it's during the physics graduates ceremony and she being a physicist has a few contacts: fingers crossed!

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 12:59 PM

Something is happening here, and you don't know what it is...do you, Mr Gibson?

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Scotus
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 02:40 PM

Check out 'Blind Willie McTell' from the 3 CD boxed set of bootlegs and out-takes (vocal and piano - Dylan, 12 string guitar - Mark Knoefler [sp?]) for one of the best songs he almost didn't issue on record!

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:09 PM

Saw Dylan at the Fleadh in London yesterday! First time any of my family have seen him live, and it was great.

Three cheers for Dr. Bob....

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Compton
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:27 PM

There's an annoying email company in America that keeps trying to get me to buy a Doctorate...could they be any relation...and didn't Dr. Bob always be on the Muppet Show??

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:46 PM

Brucie more important - if you get a second belly button and your first one is pierced - then what? has anyone found any photos of the event. Dylan in mortar board and gown!!

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 12:52 AM

I've sung in many choral groups large and small, and sung in them in places like the Sistine Chapel, Red Square and the Sorbonne, as well as many music festivals--so I do know something about singing.

Dylan is a very good singer of his own songs. He puts them across well, in fact better than many another singer with a more pleasing voice. When I wanted to learn a Dylan song, I used to listen to Joan Baez for instance, to find out what the words really were. But for communicating the intent behind the song, especially if the song is either sneering, apocalyptic, cryptic or humorous, Dylan does a great job---( hell, "cryptic" covers a whole boatload of his songs by itself.)

I'm not a huge Dylan fan. There is no Dylan album I would voluntarily put on to listen to except what I think is the first one--Dylan in his Woody phase--with Talking New York Blues and a bunch of other absolutely great songs--that one I'd listen to over and over. I think those songs will last long after many other ponderously imposing songs have been lost to general conciousness. Of "significant" songs, I would listen to Mr. Tambourine Man, all verses or Desolation Row, all verses--used to sing that at 2 AM walking back to a place outside Paris where I was staying. Also like My Back Pages. But in general I wouldn't want to hear 40 minutes of Dylan. I think it's been mostly downhill since his first, great, album (though I'm aware this is a very controversial opinion)

Of course I also hold the possibly heretical view that in folk music less is more--simple chords, spare instrumentation and a good story is almost always a winner. Anything that can't be done outside a studio is not folk. Opportunities for harmony by other participants score more points. Also, folk music that doesn't take itself deadly seriously trumps weighty "significant" music most times. Did Dylan ever not take himself seriously after the first album? (as opposed to satirizing "society")? I stand ready to be enlightened.

There are always to exceptions to any rule and my preference for fun music doesn't stop my liking a lot of religious music and 19th century tearjerkers, and I take most of them as meant seriously by the people who liked to sing them--e.g. as catharsis, means to engender group feeling, etc.

On the subject of voices, "Martin Gibson" is being rather narrow-minded. Dylan's voice is unacceptable? How about Bill Monroe?--very few people would consider that he had a pleasing voice, and he wasn't always on pitch. But so what?---for what he sang, both his own songs and a whole raft of others, he was great. It also would be refreshing if "Martin Gibson" would climb out of the gutter, unless of course he's more comfortable there. We really can carry on this discussion in a civilized way--coarse language is not essential to communicate unless it's the only language one knows.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:16 AM

Ron Davies,

It's curious that you specify Dylan "is a very good singer of his own songs. He puts them across well, in fact better than many another singer with a more pleasing voice," and then go on to say that the only Dylan album you'd voluntarily listen to is his first. Of the 13 songs on that album, Dylan wrote only two (both with tunes borrowed from Woody Guthrie). The rest are old folk, blues and country songs.

It's a great album, though. The first of many from Dylan.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:44 AM

Surely it's just a matter of taste.                                 

If you like Dylan - he's a great singer.

If you don't - he's rubbish.

How did Robert Shelton describe his voice in 1961? Something about sounding like a 70 year-old share cropper working in the fields. (Now he sounds more like a 110 year-old sharecropper).

Re those tunes that he "stole" from Woody, Woody "stole" them from somebody else! Hank Williams didn't originate many either.

Dylan has himself said very recently that he is "not a melodist" and that most of his tunes are based on old Protestant hymns.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:49 AM

Shelton's exact quote is: "Mr. dylan's voice is anything but pretty . He is consciously trying to recapture the rude beauty of a Southern field hand musing in melody on his porch. All the " husk and bark " are left on his notes and a searing intensity pervades the songs."

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 01:22 PM

It's that "searing intensity" that sets Dylan apart from most of his contemporaries and makes his singing not just good, but great. As Bruce Springsteen said, "the toughest voice I ever heard".

I agree that the first album is great, but I think he hit his peak in the 3 electric albums of the 60's and "Blood On The Tracks". Vocally speaking, he hit his peak at the time of the Rolling Thunder Revue (1975). One of his finest vocal performances is in "Blind Willie McTell" recorded in the 80's. For a Dylan without the "husk and the bark" listen to Nashville Skyline. It's a whole different approach. He has sung in many voices, not one, so if you don't like his voice I would have to wonder...which Dylan voice are you referring to when you say that? From which album?

I couldn't stand his voice at first when I was a teenager. I was a purist. I got over it.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 12:29 AM

I'm not a Dylan authority by any stretch of the imagination. I did cite Desolation Row, Mr. Tambourine Man and My Back Pages as Dylan songs (written by him I think) that he puts across well and that I like hearing. If the first album is almost entirely old blues and country, that's probably the answer--I actually like old blues and country a lot better than most of what Dylan himself has written. Of course nobody can do Positively 4th Street or Just Like A Woman justice the way he can. But in general I'd prefer it if he didn't seem to take himself so seriously all the time after the first album.   Also I love his harmonica--it's just the right touch--too bad that it dropped out so soon in his career.

I didn't say I didn't like his voice--in fact in the first album he's great.   Aside from that album, I basically only like his voice in small doses , and usually for specific songs. I can stand a lot more of, say, Mary Black singing traditional material--in fact I love this--than Dylan singing his own songs. And it's not that I just like a pretty voice--I can listen to a lot more of Tom Waits or Kristofferson than Dylan. I think the voice and the type of songs Robert Shelton would have referred to are the ones in the first album.

In fact, just came across that review. One of the items Shelton mentions is exactly what I found missing after the first album: "Talkin' New York satirizes his troubles in gaining recognition and Talkin" Hava Nagila " (did he ever record that?) " burlesques the folk-music craze and the singer himself" Did Dylan ever burlesque himself after 1962? He seemed painfully earnest from then on. That made Eric Bogle's song "Do You Know Any Bob Dylan", one of the best musical spoofs ever, that much more effective. By then Dylan was a fat juicy target for satire himself. What do you think of Bogle's song?

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 03:15 AM

I like the Bogle song a lot. It's title is something like, "The Traditional Folk Singer's Lament". The target of the satire is not so much Dylan himself as the people in folk clubs who will not accept anything else. Bogle also makes fun of the narrator, when he declares in the final verse that he is willing to sacrifice all his musical principles to get his end away. It's funny for sure, but I don't really see it as an attack on Bob Dylan.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 08:43 AM

Also I love his harmonica--it's just the right touch--too bad that it dropped out so soon in his career.

If you think Dylan stopped playing the harmonica early in his career, you have obviously not listened to almost everything that he's done.

Talkin" Hava Nagila " (did he ever record that?)

It's on the boxed set, "The Bootleg Series, Vols. 1-3: Rare And Unreleased."

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 02:57 PM

Yeah, the harmonica was very much there until rather recently. It was there all through the 60's, 70's, 80's, and much of the 90's. That's close to 40 official albums.

Now Tom Waits...there is a voice I really cannot take much of. Why do I not hear people bitching about Tom Waits' singing all the time? Is he not famous enough to bitch about or what's the problem?

Neil Young is another singer who could certainly be accused of not having a very good singing voice (in the usual sense), but I like his stuff anyway. It works. Whereas Dylan certainly can sing on pitch when he wants to, Neil Young quavers all over the place in a most peculiar fashion.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 03:23 PM

What the hell--they gave one to Man o' War once (and a miffed professorial type remarked that it was the first time they ever awarded one to an entire horse.)

He should have given a piece of it to Ramblin' Jack Eliot, though.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 03:35 PM

Also I love his harmonica--it's just the right touch--too bad that it dropped out so soon in his career

He played it loads at the London Fleadh last Sunday. But no guitar at all. He sat at his keyboard and left that to Ron Wood.

Talkin' Hava Nageilah Blues is fantastic, as is all the Bootleg Series.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 08:28 PM

Can't agree with you more about Tom Waits, LH... I like some of his stuff but, whew, the boy musta lernt to sing from Cris Kristofferson, who in my opinion, is the worst of the worse... Another guy who sang off pitch but it worked for him pretty well was Johnny Cash. But Johnny had enough soul and a danged good voice to make up for his pitch problems...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 11:56 PM

Hey you guys, both Kris Kristofferson and Tom Waits have a great droll sense of humor, frequently at their own expense, which is something Dylan had in his first album, but I haven't seen much evidence of it lately. A dry sense of humor can excuse almost anything in my book; in fact it makes a gravelly voice even more fun to listen to.   Tom Waits' dry wit fits his late-night smoky jazz arrangements --ever heard Nighthawks at the Diner? Now Dylan may in fact have it also; as I said, I'm no expert on Dylan, so if he does show a self-deprecating sense of humor, after the first album, that's great. As I said, I'm ready to be enlightened.

Gee, Little Hawk, I thought you were the soul of tolerance. You've fended off some pretty intemperate attacks on Dylan, and with great composure. And I didn't even attack Dylan, just criticized him on a few points. Good to know the harmonica is well in evidence. That would make me want to see Dylan, especially if he could be persuaded to do Talkin' Hava Nagilah.

However, we can agree on Neil Young. He's great for moaning "4 dead in Ohio" but that's about it. When it comes to needing a male banshee, Neil's your man but for anything else...


Re: Bogle   You guys are right--Bogle's song is mainly aimed at Dylan addicts in folk clubs. But there is that line---something like "Just murder good prose and sing through your nose, and then you'll sound just like Bob Dylan". In the song Bogle also does a magnificent quasi-imitation send-up of Dylan's singing style . Did Dylan ever spoof himself after 1962? As you point out, Bogle lampoons his own situation, portraying his own narrator in not the best light ( as a sell-out), albeit for a worthy cause (What, you don't think getting sex from a conditional groupie is a worthy cause?)

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 03:09 AM

Sounds like the perfect night out to me Ron - indulge my Dylan fantasies on the one hand and get laid later on...

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 03:12 PM

A clever strategic plan indeed. :-)

I agree that Tom Waits has a great sense of humour, so I can understand why he has his loyal fans. It hasn't clicked with me for some reason.

People have criticized Leonard Cohen's singing too. In fact, Cohen himself made fun of it one time, when awarded "best singer" of the year by the Canadian music industry. He indicated that he was flabbergasted by the unexpected honour, implying something rather like "Why me? I can barely sing at all." :-)

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 10:47 PM

Little Hawk--

It's not Leonard Cohen's voice that's the problem, I think. I suspect he can sing quite well, though he has hidden it expertly up to now. The real sticking point with him is his attitude (though he probably has a healthy bank balance, and making it as big as he has in music is something we haven't done yet.) Anyway, somebody, I'm pretty sure it was on Mudcat, expressed it well, something like "Leonard Cohen covers the whole range of emotions from very dark and sombre to not so dark and sombre". Well, everybody gotta have a gimmick. Maybe Cohen's gimmick is unrelieved depression.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 01:49 AM

G'day all,

Well, I just saw today's photograph of the poor lad, scowling his way through the long, boring event. Quote (photo caption in Sydney Morning Herald, Friday June 25): "Dylan was grim-faced and yawned throughout the proceedings, and left without a word." (Still, Sir Kenneth Dover, Chancellor of St Andrew's University looks like he is enjoying himself!)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 05:41 AM

Sir Kenneth Dover???    Any relation to Ben?

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 11:32 AM

"left without a word" Yeah. :-) I wonder how they even persuaded him to come in the first place...I don't think he enjoys such events in the least.

I agree that Cohen can sing allright, by the way. I like his singing style, specially in the 90's...amazing stuff. He does have a few songs which are not dark and depressing, by the way. He can be quite upbeat on occasion.

Here are 2 people who CAN sing very well, but I hate their singing styles: Barbra Streisand and Frank Sinatra.

Oh, and Whitney Houston too!!!

Ugh! Have mercy on my suffering ears.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: el ted
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 11:46 AM

Leave Leonard Cohen alone! He is divine.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Ben Dover
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 11:48 AM

My name is also my hobby.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: el ted
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 11:51 AM

99

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: el ted
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 11:51 AM

100. Thanks I'll eat it here.