Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: s6k
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 12:39 PM

leonard cohen is amazing has such great songs

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 03:03 PM

Ben, are you trying to tell us something?

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,IMHO
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 12:19 PM

There are two terms that need to be clarified.

1) Vocalist: Someone whose vocal cords resonate and subsequently produce sounds in a manner pleasing to the listener. Picture here Luciano Pavarotti singing "Blowin' in the Wind" in an operatic voice. Hear in your mind's ear Joan Baez singing "Walls of Redwing" in that note-perfect soprano voice. My gawwwwddd!

2) Singer: Someone like Bob Dylan. He does often acknowledge where the note should be, but he's not hung up on keeping his voice there while he expresses the meaning inherent in his words. Bob Dylan is a songwriter and a song singer--he is not a song vocalist.

I recall Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction" and cringe--as I do when Joan Baez sings "Love is Just a Four Letter Word." McGuire proves that bad vocalization can destroy a poorly-written song and Joan Baez proves that excellent vocalization can destroy a well-written song.

I do not think we can separate the writer from the singer in Dylan's case, nor can we separate the singer from the song. When I listen to Bruce Springsteen's rendition of "Chimes of Freedom" I am blown away. I feel like crankin' the volume and shakin' the walls. It is GREAT. Fantastic production, good studio mix, wow! And then I listen to Dylan singing it and my soul is touched in its deepest recess, and I realize in my heart that there are people on Earth who have been--through one circumstance or another--removed from the company of their peers and their lives. And I hear a voice that speaks for the disenfranchised of our societies and our world. He misses quite a few notes when he sings it, but sing it he does. In the words of Johnny Cash from the liner notes of Nashville Skyline, "This man can rhyme the tick of time, the edge of pain, the what of sane."

Any good vocalist can sing "Mares eat Oats" and miss no notes. That does not mean the same person can sing "Sad-eyed Lady" and make the song work. Baez tried and failed miserably because she turned a piece of song-writing 'literature' into a limp imitation of itself. (Listening to her sing that song is an experience for me much like listening to an Oxford don recite "A Child's Christmas in Wales." Thank you, but I'll take a hungover Dylan Thomas, because Thomas made it work, and I will gladly hear the sacrifice of 'perfect' English for the blend of OK English and absolute meaning that Thomas brings to his work. Operatic voice, note perfect though it may be, will not replace the need for the song to be sung.) When I hear Dylan sing it, I know that he has reached a place that broken-hearted lovers know about, maybe even live, and he spoke with eloquent words to define and expose the pain and remorse of love beyond the reach of stretched-out arms and outstretched hands.

If there is a testimonial to the power of Dylan's singing, it might be this: Few people are able to sing his songs well after he has sung them because his rendition defines context, meaning and purpose. "Mr Tamborine Man" is an example. The Byrds had a hit with it, but that was the newness of hearing a Dylan song electrified, and twelve-strings DO add a special sound to music--especially electric twelves. But I think the definitive recording is Dylan's, broken voice and all. Dylan is not a great vocalist, but I think we would be hard-pressed to find a better singer.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 04:07 PM

I saw him on Tuesday in Newcastle (possibly the best soundman I've ever seen...made the Metro Radio Arena sound like a good venue). First time I've seen him live in concert, and I wasn't sure what to expect; I haven't really listened to anything he's done post-Blood on the Tracks. I was going half-expecting to come away with little more than the ability to tell my grandkids I saw him before he retired.

I was blown away. It's fair to say his band is a huge part of that; they're a straight-up rock outfit with an incredible punch and drive that would make it easy for the worst of singers, but he still has a drive and intensity about his work that leaves those who accuse him of coasting with no argument. Masters of War was sung with genuine anger, his voice at times on the verge of shouting out the rage.

Anyway, to get to the point of my post...what I took away with me, besides his musicianship, is the impression that he doesn't trust his audience as far as he can throw all ten thousand of them. Which makes sense, if you consider the negativity he's received several times in his career, never mind the downright rage he was greeted with at the Manchester Free Trades Hall (Judas!) and Newport. A simple way of putting it is that he seems insecure; that was certainly the impression I got from his speaking, to thank his band - he was half finished before I realised he was talking.

Anyway, that's one of a few million opinions for ya. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 05:04 PM

I'm not surprised that Dylan wasn't too impressed by the "proceedings" of being given a doctorate. At the Fleadh he finished his act by pushing away someone on stage who tried to hug him, though I've got the impression, Calum, that he's never been too keen on long speeches on stage. In 1964 he made a single comment ("It's halloween...") and everyone remembers it!

On the subject of voices, I like Dylan's. And Neil Young's, and Leonard Cohen's, Martin Carthy's etc. The only voices that I don't like (excepting those that really can't hit a note) are the ones that aren't interesting at all, and indistinguishable from others'.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 10:40 AM

From the "Dundee Courier" [15 miles from St Andrews]

"Described by Prof Corcoran as 'one of the greatest writers of the drama of human relationships', he has received numerous awards, including France's highest cultural accolade.

Fans hoping to catch a glimpse of D arriving and leaving the Younger Hall were disappointed. He arrived at the west door in a people carrier with blacked out windows, accompanied by his tour manager and security adviser and quickly stepped inside. On his departure he was spotted by a group of fans who waved and clapped but he failed to acknowledge them.

A Uni spokesman said later that he asked to be allowed to keep his [graduation] robe as a memento and in a break with tradition was allowed to do so. He added, "he appeared to enjoy the experience and it was a great compliment to the Uni that he asked to keep his robe"

Although Dylan agreed to pose for official photograps in a private room in the Younger hall, he declined to grant any interviews to the army of reporters".

No film cameras were allowed but somebody sneaked one in and the BBC showed D getting his honour that evening (I got it on tape). And yes, he did indeed look as if he was getting his degree for, a one down market rag in these parts said, "for his contribution to glum rock".                                                            

He's a weird monkey, very funky.

Subject: RE: Dr Bob Dylan - you better believe it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 09:18 PM

Guests IMHO and Calum, you couldn't have said it better. Thanks. IMHO has described exactly what it is that makes Dylan not just a good singer, but a great singer. When he sings it, it's the real thing, nothing is held back, and it's absolutely unforgettable.

Then you've got people who are great vocalists. Ho hum. (Mind you, I do like Baez, but I've always liked her because of who she was, what she did, and when...and she had courage. I understand why many do not care for her rather unevocative style of delivery. I like it okay, because she has great integrity, and I sense that. One song I thought she did not do very well was "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". I usually like her Dylan renditions rather well, while I like Bob's even better, but in a different way. She got the magic in Dylan's material before most other people did, and that in itself gives her some kind of darned good reason to sing it, I think.)