BS: America: the World hates you

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 11:14 PM

For those of you who seem to think that we are not justified in our response. I am no war monger how ever let's do a little tally. The US, which is evil according to some of you and should sit idly by while our homeland is attacked, has chosen not to do so. The good book says he who is with out sin casts the first stone. Whole lot of righteous people out there. On with the tally. Vietnam-We shouldn't have been there, see above. How about them going in to Cambodia and then getting their butts handed to them from China over a border dispute with them? Germany- Beautiful land wonderful people. I believe the justification for the series of bloodless annexations that led up to the second world war and the attck on Poland were justified by the persecution of Germanic minorities in Austria,Czeckoslovakia, the Saar. I won't get into the spasmodic vomit fest that resulted in World War one or the fact that Prussia goaded France in to a war that Prussia knoew that couldn't win in 1870 after having done the same to Austria Hungary a decade earlier or so. Afghanastan- We could have not armed the mujhadin and kept out of it and maybe we should have. Of course there is the small problem of a People's Republic... My point is No-one is immune from good or evil but I'd stack our record with anyone elses. We should act our age? Our age is 225 year old as nations go, sportsfans, that's still juvenile. This thread has become nothing but a bash fest and i will no longer participate in that. Good night and kindest regards to all. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 07:06 AM

Seems to me that it has all been said, so, I'm out of here. The thread is too long anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: sledge
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 08:00 AM

Well This particular foreign chap has no hatred for the US, I am looking forward to travelling over in 2 weeks time and being there to help celebrate Thanks giving, which will procbably be felt tohave more meaning this year than for quite a while.

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 08:27 AM

"Something had to be done" is the way that people doing terrible things always justify them. And the other thing they do is to point at the people they are against, saying "Look at them, don't look at me."

That's true whether they are terrorists in a cave or generals or politicians in offices or press conferences.

Another point though. People are focusing on whether the bombing of Afghanistan is just it is unjust and so forth. That matters of course, and things like using terrorist weaons like fragmentation bombs matter.

But there's another way of talking about right and wrong that isn't primarily about morality, it's about effectiveness. And it seems to me that many people, on bity sides in this argument, appear to be ignoring whether the bombing is a mistake or not.

There's a quote that fits here. It was a comment made at the time when Napoleon executed one of his opponents (the Duc D'Enghien as it happened)- "It is worse than a crime, it is a blunder.

And the two people I gave links to earlier, Sir Michael Howard, a well respected military historian, and Abdul Haq the recently executed enemy of the Taliban, both think that it is a bad mistake, and is going to make things far worse. They deserve to be read by anyone who thinks that the bombing is likely to achieve its objectives.

I suppose I could have posted the articles directly in this thread, but I assume that anyone who is seriously interested in these issues will be up to pushing the blue clicky. (And the Guardian archives are kept available longterm, unlike some other publications.)

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: DougR
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 01:43 PM

I agree, Kendall. Me too.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: heric
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 03:08 PM

I have been away for several days, and just had the pleasure of reading this thread in one lump. For all the nonsense of a general rah-rah post, I would still like to mention briefly that I think it is wonderful to have this interactive reading resource, even if it is on the backs of the pure music devotees. You BS'rs on both sides of the peace/war equation (however you want it described) have given me a lot to think through in a way that is quite different from plowing through news and editorial sites, or dedicated political discussion sites. (Note also how the invective is almost absent in this thread.) I suppose there is something about the self-selection process that brings people to this site that has this beneficial side effect.

Thanks

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 09:05 PM

Okay, students, here's a test for your final grade in "Logical Thinking 101".

Examine the following propositions and determine whether they are logically consistent or not; if you argue they are not, identify the illogical issues or fallacies implied.

 1.  Americans do not have a clue about the world.
 2. The world is made up of the nations of the world.
 3. America is the strongest nation in the world.
 4. America is the richest nation in the world.
 5. America is not the most populous nation in the world.

Extra points will be given for brilliance.

Professor A.

Subject: RE: BS: America: the World hates you
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 01 - 09:12 PM

This thread is CONTINUED HERE.

Do not add to this section but click on the above link to make additional posts.

Thanks,

A.