'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 01:57 PM

I think it's really simple: open jams are open. everyone is included, everyone is encourged to participate, all levels work together. At these sessions the point is the joy of singing and playing - ALL particpants are equal at that level. The seasoned pros will gain just as much out of these sessions as the beginners. The obvious advantage to the beginner is the chance to play with others. The less obvious advantages to the seasoned pro include making others sound good, teaching others (I've always found teaching a LEARNING experience), and even hearing new arrangements.

Elite sessions? Well they have a term for those; rehearsals - or on-stage jams. Elite sessions are private, and have different purpose. I think you'll find the session snobs are not the really good players.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Mandochop
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 02:29 PM

Chet, In my experience, especially in Irish sessions, there are a few unspoken rules you must follow when participating in a session. In reference to beginners, you should really know if you are a beginner and try to stay away from sessions which are too fast for you or the tunes are "elite". There are plenty of beginner sessions out there. However, it goes against all session etiquette (in my opinion) to ever ask anyone to leave a session because of their inexperience. It's the same way with beginners as it is with children. Their musical growth should be encouraged, and asking them to leave a session achieves the exact opposite. A session can always be slowed down for a few tunes to accomodate a beginner. A problem developes when the beginner doesnt realize that the session is being slowed down specifically for them. This produces an awkward situation in which the more experienced players tend to stop coming because the session is too slow, and "elite" sessions develope. In summation, beginners: know your limits and dont take over a session, and more advanced players: encourage the musical growth of beginners as far as you can.

Rob

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 06:42 PM

I have an opinion. I consider this to be an extremely "unIrish" response. The real Irish are magnanimous and encouraging to anyone who desires to forward the "Tradition". The Comhaltas Ceoltori Eireann would not abide such exclusive nonsense. This being said, the Irish are generally quite musically sensitive and outsized egos are not tolerated in the culture. In Ireland, humility is prized if it is genuine.

I really dislike exclusive clubs in music.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: bbelle
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 07:16 PM

I've been avoiding this thread ever since it began because to use the word "elite" in a folk music atmosphere is an oxymoron. Even though I've played guitar for over 30 years, I don't play well with others because I've always been a single act. Also, my major strength is my voice and I learned guitar to accompany myself. I've never been comfortable even considering going to a jam session because I've always been afraid of someone raising eyebrows over my playing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a terrible guitarist. Mainly, I don't know how to play in a group. I think that instrumental musicians do have a tendency to manifest an elitist attitude because I've met quite a few over the years. I find this to be almost non-existent in vocal musicians. Personally speaking, if someone's singing is not on a par with mine, I would never try to "crowd them out" or call for an "elite" session. I encourage everyone to sing because the more then sing, the better they will become. And, as most of us know, sometimes it can be "trying." It takes courage to sing (or play an instrument) in front of your peers and this courage should be recognized by encouragement and patience not by dismissal. That being said, I'm going to a bluegrass session tonight and it's mustering up all the courage I got, folks! I just hope they do some singing too! Oh, well ... it's mostly men so all won't be lost. (She says with a laugh and a twinkle in her eye ...) mc aka moonchild

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 03:21 PM

Just came across this thread and very interested as it is one of my real hobbyhorses! As someone who has been playing in Irish sessions for some 30 years on a variety of instruments I cannot abide "elitism" in sessions. The truth is that nearly every time I play I learn something new, often from so-called "inexperienced" players. In seventeen years playing in one well-known session in London I never saw one person turned away, asked to leave or criticised. On the other hand, I have sometimes been cold-shouldered by "insiders" in new sessions I have been to and it doesn't feel good and certainly makes me even more sensitive to the feelings of learners. Basically it all boils down respect for others and good manners. These days, if I detect "elitism" in a session I don't bother going back.

mcmoo

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 04:22 PM

mcmoo - good comments. I make the rounds of the sessions about town, and enjoy each for its speciality. I have seen the 'insider snub' tendencies from time-to-time, but rarely. The one session I attended where some regulars asked lesser talented individuals not to participate ... is the one session to which I will never return. I am a well rounded, seasoned player, and fit well with just about any jam, and am usually welcomed for that reason ... like you I find that I learn something from each session no matter what the experience level of the indivuals. Snobbery has no place in a jam session!

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 04:38 PM

Well geez guys we keep goin over the same ole ground !!!

Frank Hamilton - you are a star - nailed it down right away - fair play to you - There ought to be an Irish Group including folk like Frank and Mr McMoo (I hope your read this! My email is)

[e-mail]

Pulease drop me a note so we can commuicate.

I played since I cannot recall when - Trad etc., and everything McMoo says is Gospel. The Irish do not practice 'elitism' maybe these sessions are by and for some other 'entity' but -_READ THIS - those who do that are giving the Irish a bad name.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:10 PM

Sorry to spoil the pure image. The Burren just outside of Boston has a session every night, it's owned & run by two very good Irish musicians from Ireland this is a very elite & an insider session, most who attend are very good if not excellent, I can't stand it because they turn off any non Irish born singers no matter their level & they don't think that a bodhran (there may be other pet peeves but at this point that's enough for me to stop counting) is an instrument. They also hang miks from the lamp that hangs from the ceiling that hangs over the small central table where only the 4 or so elitest sit. I go maybe once a year & then I remember why I shun the place. This is not just my take so I don't think I have a slighted view & this has to be the worst of this type that I've been in, in the past 20-25 years. Barry

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:30 PM

Barry Finn,

Might I recommend that you attend the Hannafin/Cooley branch of the CCE for sesiuns? I lived in Boston for a while and I think that what you describe is more of a local problem than an Irish one. Whenever and wherever in Ireland we went, we were received hospitably. Sure, there may be one or two bad apples. But music is meant to be shared and the Irish are committed to this idea. Talk to Larry Reynolds up there and he would be most happy to find a congenial sesuin spot for you. He and Seamus Connally have been running sesiuns for years and they have a most welcoming attitude. Cead file failte is the motto of the best Irish sesiuns.

Slainte,

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 06:16 PM

Hi Frank, you're right on target. I've been playing off & on with Larry & Seamus for over (since the eary Coach House Days) 20 years & you couldn't find a more welcoming group in a session that has more love & talent anywhere on earth. It was Seamus that kept at me to pull my drum out from under the table & both he & Larry would always call on singers & dancers & story tellers to make sure it stayed well rounded. Their sessions were always consider by hot shots to be a mid level session but as I said above this was where you could not only hear the love of the music but could really see the love of it & if the worlds best didn't care if it was hot shot then why would I. To them I owe my respect for how I play with others be they better or not. I last I saw of Seamus about a yr or two ago at a concert at the Museum of our Natural Heritage, his dancer didn't make it & he asked if I'd sit in with him for a few tunes. I'd refuse Seamus nothing in this world so I joined him when he asked & he gave me such a lovely & warm intro as if I were the star yet it was my honor to return some of the love of the music he had helped to instilled in me.
Frank I still drop in on their Monday night session when I get the chance (not near often enough) my point was that their are snob sessions but there grows no love of the music there & then there's a lack of a good ttime.
See my July 5th post in this thread.
Barry

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:34 PM

The only thing bout 'elitism' that recommends it is this - it keeps those eejits busy while the real musicians poularise the art.

The Burren - the what ??? Ass's head ass's butt ass's session.

He haw.

T'would be cruel to send some of todays genius Trad players there but it could be arranged. --- . only thing bout that is twould make the place famous. On the other hand the donkeys might wake up.

The Sleeping Donkey - A BAR FULL NUFFIN - The Burren - A Place of torture by 'cran' and decorated slightly musical sounds. They probably never got 'it' on in their entire lives - and NEVER WILL. *BECAUSE* they can't listen to anything other than themselves.

Do print this out and give it to em.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:48 PM

Jeez, you guys are making me homesick for the city -- any city -- again.

I was getting people out to our song circles for awhile here; one hotshot in our "society" told me I was singing "deportee" "wrong." I snapped back that that was the was I had learned it, and he seemed suitably embarrased. The circles trailed out; I found myself driving 60 miles tothe nearest song circle, in Tri-Cities, once a month on a Sunday afternoon. What a great group! And Mudjack has mentioned running into me at the Portland Monday night song circle.

this is the same guy who is not as good of a dance caller as he thinks he is, and has had the temerity to pull dancers off the floor at one of our dances. The board (finally) reacted to that. and he once condescended to our volunteer house band so badly they almost quit.

Ach! Oh, for the city, and choices.

Someone else is taking a shot at reviving our song circle this fall, and I'll go. and if this control freak even begins to imply he knows more about singing folk songs than I do (hah!) he is going to get it.

Boy, it felt good to vent. Thanks.

MA

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: j0_77
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 08:21 PM

nuttin like the real mc coy refresh