Subject: Oxymorons From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 16 Apr 02 - 11:26 PM Now that the "Eternal Questions" thread seems to be close to unraveling let's try a new one -- oxymorons. I'll start by getting jumbo shrimp and military intelligence out of the way. Ther is one which I wanted to mention that even George Carlin forgot -- civil war. Is there anything we do that requires less civility? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Amos Date: 16 Apr 02 - 11:42 PM My widely distributed software development team has been handed a new one by its highermanagement, a thinly disguised effort to justify continuous coping and not doing an orderly and methodical job of development according to best practices. it's called "Just-In-Time Engineering". It's not only an insult to "just-in-time" supply chain management, which can be a reasonable practice, but it is also an insult to good engineers! A |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Pete Jennings Date: 16 Apr 02 - 11:47 PM Honest politicians. Music critics. Pete |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Anahootz Date: 16 Apr 02 - 11:52 PM "live recording" "virtual reality" two of my faves oh yeah, and..."airline food" |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Troll Date: 16 Apr 02 - 11:58 PM "rap music" troll |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wincing Devil Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:32 AM
Tame cat! |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Sorcha Date: 17 Apr 02 - 01:00 AM Shrimp Scampi Non Working Mom Fixed Pitch Instrument (I know I'll think of more.........) |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,jonm Date: 17 Apr 02 - 03:16 AM What about... Microsoft Works |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: MudGuard Date: 17 Apr 02 - 03:20 AM liquid gas keeping animals in their natural |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 03:44 AM Mature student Bitter sweet Quiet music Military Intelligence Cruel kindness Black light |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Trevor Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:21 AM Permanent travellers' site Child psychologist Given freedom |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wolfgang Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:35 AM "I write folksongs" for some of the posters here the following is a single word oxymoron: Psychology Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Hrothgar Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:40 AM Intelligent drummer.
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:43 AM Artificial Fur Genuine reproduction Unique example |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:53 AM Friendly fire. (though that may be unfair, it might be military black humour, irony or euphemism rather than oxymoron. It could be we need a "what do we mean by oxymoron" thread) |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:10 AM Main Entry: ox.y.mo.ron Pronunciation: "äk-si-'mOr-"än, -'mor- Function: noun Etymology: Late Greek oxymOron, from neuter of oxymOros pointedly foolish, from Greek oxys sharp, keen + mOros foolish Date: 1657 Inflected Form(s): plural ox.y.mo.ra /-'mOr-&, -'mor-/ : a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness) - ox.y.mo.ron.ic /-m&-'r@-nik, -mo-/ adjective - ox.y.mo.ron.i.cal.ly /-ni-k(&-)lE/ adverb
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:11 AM From the dictionary definition I posted above, should the thread title be "Oxymora" ? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: MudGuard Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:20 AM got another one: tasty haggis (is that Scottish stuff spelled this way?) |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:25 AM Thanks for clarification Nigel. My point is: what is "friendly fire"? Is it oxymoron (combination of contradictory or incongruous words); irony (intended meaning is the opposite of that of the words used); or euphemism (substitution of mild or innocuous wordfor more harsh or offensive term)? Or some combination of all three? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: bill\sables Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:11 AM McDonalds Restaurant |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:51 AM Greg: I think for once (maybe I should rephrase that clause!). On this occasion I believe (that's better) the British Politicians have exactly the apposite phrase! "Friendly Fire" comes under the heading of "Weasel Words" (a form of euphamism used by politicians deliberately to mislead, or to evade the point) |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:13 AM Amos -- I agree Wincing Devil -- applause for "Tame Cat" Nigel Parsons -- plural noted. I'll know next time. GUEST,jonm -- YES!!!!! Greg Stephens -- I suspect that "friendly fire" probably started its life as a eupemism created by those in command and, as frequently happens when leaders are being espcially silly, was turned into ironic humor by those being commanded. Stephen |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:28 AM This might be a thread where i could find the answer to a question that has often come up: is it true that Americans don't use, and therefore don't understand, ironic humour? It is popularly supposed that if you say to an American "Brutus is an honourable man" or "Streets of London is a wonderful and very moving song" they will take the comment to be a statement of your opinion. Can anyone help? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Amos Date: 17 Apr 02 - 08:56 AM Friendly fire means rounds of ammo INADVERTENTLY being directed at you by those on your side or an allied side. It is not a euphemism, and it is not contradictory, but it does sound like a combination of incongruous words, which therefore qualifies it as an oxymorin anyway. A |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:05 AM I disagree amos.it is contradictory, because "friendly" has connotations quite the reverse ofthe feelings you get from a bullet up your jacksie. And it is a euphemism I think, because it was a circumlocution by PR people who didnt like saying "we've bombed our boys by mistake". And is certainly ironic, if the phrase is used byits recipients. So all in all i think it qualifies as all three figures of speech and gets some sort of prize. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Guessed Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:12 AM MudGuard isn't liquid gas sublime (***B tech G ****) greg stevens - are you ernest or ironest? can I offer Manage Meant? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Rich_and_Dee Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:18 AM Oxymoron: Gourmet buffet
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Pseudolus Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:34 AM I thought an oxymoron was someone who didn't know how to use those acne pads (oxy pads).... And to appease the folks who think all conversations here should be about music, my oxymoron contribution is.....MUSIC THREAD!
Frank |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:35 AM Oldest oxymoron I know is glykypikron = "bitter-sweet", as said of love by the poetress Sappho about the beginning of the 6th century B.C.
A fine translation by J. Addington Symonds, 1883: In friendly fire I can see no oxymoron; friendly here only designates an origin and no intention. In the tis man's Army it is well known that artillerists don't distinguish between friend or foe; the bloody bangheads only know interesting targets. A long range hit at a friendly officers latrine they consider as a ballistic masterpiece, too. Not so funny is the intelligent drummer. I only agree if you except me personally.
And now to Greg: There are certain hints at the use of ironic humour in the U.S. of A. Even the British Library shows six entries of this excellent and entertaining work: Wilfried |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: John MacKenzie Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:57 AM While we're on books "The quiet American"? DARFC |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Guessed Date: 17 Apr 02 - 10:04 AM American Irony? never the Twain? AND what about Ambrose Bierce? What was his take on irony? I have the whole text from the Guttenberg Project - I will go see. I wish I could remember their URL but it won't be hard to find. methinks a can of worms is wriggling free here. "Ire ON" - folks. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: artbrooks Date: 17 Apr 02 - 11:01 AM As a former field artilleryman, I can comment on "friendly fire" from a different perspective. It wasn't invented by a PR flac, rather its a technical (well, not very) term that's been around at least since WWII. It refers to artillery rounds (shells, if you prefer) fired ("fire") by our side ("friendly")that hit something other than the intended target. This can be because of mislocation of the target or of the guns, changing weather conditions, mathmatical error, or because either the good guys weren't where they were supposed to be or the artillery didn't know where they were. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Greg F. (remote computer) Date: 17 Apr 02 - 11:31 AM Creation science. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: kendall Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:15 PM A good Rose' attractive linoleum Legally drunk Reagan's memoirs Compassionate conservative Cherry Tart. Rush hour |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:19 PM Agitating for peace. ~S~ |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Dagenham Doc Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:18 PM I love rush hour!! How about stiff upper lip Doc. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: 8_Pints Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:16 PM How about: "Industrial action" "Pretty awful" "Management perspective" Bob vG |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:45 PM I have to disagree that bitter-sweet is an oxymoron. "Bitter" and "Sweet" are NOT opposites, but the names of a couple of the battery of taste sensations that make up flavor. Something CAN be both bitter and sweet, and maybe sour or salty, etc., at the same time. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: kendall Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:11 PM Government assistance |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Jane 2001 Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:30 PM Re Americans and irony. I have occasionally noticed that on mudcat where someone has expressed an opinion which is so extreme it must be the opposite of what they actually think and our cousins get terribly upset about it. I think we Brits use irony rather a lot, making a point by taking things to their ultimate ridiculous extreme. I think it is a peculiarly British (English?) form of rhetoric. The continentals don't seem to understand it either and dispise the speaker accordingly. |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Snuffy Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:24 AM You're right, Jane. Over here "absolutely marvellous" would be a highly damning verdict, whereas "not totally unpleasant" could be high praise indeed. WassaiL! V |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:43 AM christian right |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:44 AM I like wolfgang's: folksong writer |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:48 AM celibate priest |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,greg stephens Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM yes, i did raise the irony point in all seriousness, it is one of the main souces of incomprehension(and possible anger) in the trans-atlantic conversations we have here. Other examples of incomprehension occur on this thread: I'm sure any british or irish reader reading my posting of "friendly fire" would understand that I knew what friendly fire is, and was discussing the oddness of the juxtaposition of the two words. But two or three posters, who i would guess were american, assumed that I was trying to find out what the words meant and explained them (very slowly and carefully)."Two countries separated by a common language"..who said that? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Hamish Date: 18 Apr 02 - 10:12 AM Detailed summary and/or in-depth overview |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:41 AM Hi Guessed, Project Gutenberg is written with only one "t". The German home page was transferred some days ago, URL is now http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/ No Ambrose Bierce here. But he can be found on the English URL http://promo.net/pg/ Hi Uncle DaveO I may assure you that Sappho when she wrote her poem did not know the Chinese sweet-sour sauces, and bitter and sweet for one and the same thing were supposed contraries, not parts of a range. Otherwise the word oxymoron = sharp witted-dull would be no oxymoron itself, only a part of the wide range of human intellect. Wilfried |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Bill D Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:44 AM Athletic scholarship freezer burn briefing holy war |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Pete Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:54 AM Guesstimate? |
Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Dave Bryant Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:58 AM Bodhran Music |
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