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BS: Are Americans 'insular'?
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: CapriUni Date: 13 May 02 - 12:08 PM Warning: Thread Drift Zone Ahead! Well, whoever said that language has to make sense? Besides, the pronounciations have continued to evolve, but the spelling hasn't. In Shakespeare's day (at least, at the time he wrote Much Ado About Nothing), "Ache" was pernounced just like the letter "H"... but not all spelling back then made sense; the h in the Nothing of the title had nothing to do -- the word was pronounced like "noting", as in "to take note of what you hear" (and the whole plot of the play revolves around eavesdropping) While in Chaucer's day, every letter in "knight" was pronounced (K-Nih-Guh-T). You can see why that didn't last (I had enough trouble just saying the world in my Middle English Lit. class, I can't imagine how it would have scanned in a song!). You can complain about odd spellings all you want, but just be grateful you don't have to murder your vocal chords to hold a simple conversation! End Thread Drift Zone |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: SharonA Date: 13 May 02 - 12:09 PM D'oh! Typo alert! Let me try that again: So, for Jerry to say that NYC is two states away from PA... well, that's just plain insular!! *BG* (Of course, some Pennsylvanians consider Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to be separate entities from the rest of the state, but that's another story...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: PeteBoom Date: 13 May 02 - 12:09 PM On language... Several years ago PBS, publicly funded television in the States, ran a series hosted by Robert MacNeill on the "History of the English Language". One installment dealt with how endings have changed over the last 300-400 years and how these same endings have impacted the understanding of English as well as the development of jthe language. One bit that I remember from this, and still find fascinating, dealt with the "-ing" ending. It traced known usage and development as well as acceptance in recorded instances. This sent wee Robert off on a tangent about folk living in Appalachia in the States. It, may actually have been in the Carolinas, but I seem to recall it was Appalachia. Anyway, the topic was how educated folk tended to look down on people from this region who "drop the 'g'" in the "-ing" ending, and prefice the given verb with "a". As in, "I'm a fixin..." Wee Robert's point was that to be perfectly accurate, they are not "dorpping the 'g'" - given that this was correct and proper English grammer in the late 17th century and early 18th century, these folk simply never added it. Cheers - Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: DMcG Date: 13 May 02 - 12:30 PM Another Off thread Alert Thanks for your comments, CapriUni. Can we pursue this idea of spelling evolution a bit further, though? As a Brit involved in computers since the late 60's, I always used programme for TV and Theatre, but program for computers, disc for records and flat round things but disk for computer disks. Colour always held the British spelling. Many of the American spellings are gradually being adopted in the UK. You come across posters saying "tonite" rather than "tonight" quite often, for example. I would regard this as evolution of the language, rather than decay of British English as some might. Are there changes in spelling (as opposed to introduction of new words) happening in American English?. We may need to start a new thread if this discussion continues.
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST,The Jester Date: 13 May 02 - 12:37 PM I asked him what his name was and how come he didn't drive a truck.He replied Columbus so I just said good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 13 May 02 - 12:52 PM Sharon A: You're right, how insular of me! I assumed that anyone who wanted to go to Pennsylvania would leave from where I live. :-) As for New Joisey(Jersey for you Brits) some people might say it's worht going out of your way not to have to drive through New Jersey. But, they wouldn't know what a beautiful state New Jersey is. I worked at the Newark Museum in New Jersey (right across the river from New York City, for the Brits) and traveled through the state, and it is beautiful country. Everything except a long stretch of the Jersey Turnpike. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: John Gray Date: 13 May 02 - 12:57 PM From several visits to the USA, first for 14 months in 65/66, I have gained the impression that , whilst most Australians know that the US is comprised of states and the leader is a president, the Americans don't know if we comprise counties, states, provinces or cantons or whether our leader is a president, a prime minister, a chief, a dictator, a king or a queen. JG / FME |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: ard mhacha Date: 13 May 02 - 01:11 PM On my first visit to the US in 1970, I remember a lady asking me "did you come from Ireland by Car", and yes I was amazed at their total ignorance of almost everything European, very very insular. Ard Mhacha |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: ard mhacha Date: 13 May 02 - 01:14 PM But to be fair, very very friendly,Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Fortunato Date: 13 May 02 - 01:17 PM But who are these Americans you ask about? Do you mean the people I know? Dr. Chen B.Deer G. Alderdice M. Kim R.Kavanaugh M.Mawniki L.Gonzalez M.Murthy S. Sullivan K.Szakos Well, answering for the people I know, their world awareness and their personalities differ so greatly that no generalizations can be made. If people want to believe there large numbers of homogenized Americans all marching to the same drummer, well go ahead. But that doesn't make it so. Turn off your television; disconnect from CNN. Walk our city streets, visit our small towns, have a coffee or a beer in a local tavern. Eat at the Snappy Lunch. Come see us. We aren't in the media and we aren't in the movies and we surely aren't on the television. It isn't real, friends. Neither is the public face of our politicians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: catspaw49 Date: 13 May 02 - 01:19 PM Funny thread really! The US is no more or less insular than most places anymore and the answer to the question is, "It depends." On a political/statesmanship level, it depends on who is running the show as to how we treat other countries and how outgoing or insular in our thinking we are. If you go back to the WWI period, we were very insular but began to change after that. In the past 50 years it has greatly depended on the President and his personal view of world affairs. On the individual citizen level, again it depends. I doubt that on a percentage basis there are greater or fewer folks with a "world view" here than anywhere else. Oddly enough, and to some degree because the country is large with population centers in every region, people tend to be somewhat more "home-bodied" about their own region/state/county whatever. Unless you're financially well off, not to many people think of taking a weekend visit to the other side (or the middle) of this country......the distances are kinda' prohibitive for most. and then some people simply don't leave home....period. I have lived and worked over most of the United States and when Karen and I settled down in this tiny little village, I should have known better, but was completely surprised at how "insular" things were here. The county seat (Lancaster) is 12 miles away and I go there virtually daily, but people living in Lancaster rarely come here. Not that there is anything here, but a woman Karen worked with needed directions....and she had lived in Lancaster all of her life. I mentioned to someone in Lancaster that a performer was going to be "in town." Lancaster is only 35 miles from Columbus, a major city and the state capital. By in town I meant Columbus. They responded, "In Lancaster?" .....Geeziz, Karen drives to work in Columbus everyday!!! But hey, if it ain't happening in Lancaster, a lot don't bother with it. That's insular. INOBU and other on NYC folks...........remember Lenny Bruce talking about being Jewish and New York? "If you live in New York or any other big city, you are Jewish. It doesn't matter even if you're Catholic; if you live in New York, you're Jewish. If you live in Butte, Montana, you're going to be goyish even if you're Jewish." Larry, that's why I can never take you seriously as a Quaker. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: catspaw49 Date: 13 May 02 - 01:23 PM Hey John Gray!! My friend there is a reason that we treat Australia as we do. Like the old joke goes........Australia is like an 80 year old woman's genitals. Everybody knows it's down there......Nobody cares............ Spaw(:<)) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: CarolC Date: 13 May 02 - 01:26 PM Is knowlege of Europe the measure with which we determine insularity or the lack of it? That sounds Eurocentrically (sp?) insular to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 13 May 02 - 01:33 PM ard, if she said that, she was not simply an American, she was simply an idiot. When I was in High School and College, a heavy emphasis was put on European History and Geography, to the exception of Asian, African, etc. So, if we are insular, we're on the same island with you folks. I would be happy to discuss Michael Collins, Eamon DeValera, the Battle of the Boyne or the monument at Newgrange with you. Would you be as comfortable talking to me about the battle of Chickamauga or the journey of Lewis and Clark? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Alice Date: 13 May 02 - 02:06 PM I second LEJ's statement. American education includes a history of Europe. Does European education include a history of America? Insular and ignorant people exist to some degree in every country. Regarding the posting of messages without saying what country the person is from... the site began basically with people in the US who compiled the information and created it, then grew to international participation in the forum. Many people who find the site can identify it as being based in the US but are not aware of the global growth of the forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 May 02 - 02:58 PM "Brits don't drink Budweiser."
There's enough of it on sale in the shops and all the adverts on the telly. There must be a lot of people who drink it. Or maybe a few people who drink a lot of it. Poor sods.
On the other hand we can also buy real Budweiser, made in the Czech Republic which is a totally different beer, and a great beer. The labels say Budweiser Budvar, to avoid the risk of making a horrible mistake.
Really big countries with big populations must feel like they are the whole world, stands to reason. Russia, China, USA, India. Small countries can't get fooled that way. "Insular" is really the least appropriate word to have got associated with this phenomenon. Islands can't normally afford to be insular. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Joe Offer Date: 13 May 02 - 02:59 PM I've lived in California since 1973, and I'm still not used to it. Out here, people think going "back east" is a drive to Reno or Las Vegas - and they seem to have the impression there is nothing worth anything east of Nevada. If you look on a map and see what's in the thousand-mile space east of Nevada, maybe you'll understand... I think there is much more of an awareness of Europe and Canada in the Eastern and Midwest United States. Here in California, people are aware of Mexico and Asia, but their concept of Europe is a bit foggy. To the minds of Californians, Canada is Victoria, Vancouver, and a vast wilderness. Yes, there are Californians who have traveled extensively, and they have a much broader world view. I also remember a time in the 1970's when I wasn't able to afford to travel, and my focus was on my little family in an apartment in Los Angeles. We had lived in Berlin for 20 months just before that, and we travelled all over Europe on a very limited budget. Our stay in Los Angeles also lasted 20 months, and all we could afford was a couple of trips to Sacramento and a vacation in Santa Barbara. So, yeah, I guess it happens that Americans have a limited world view. I think it's caused by geography and financial limitations. Is that a horrible thing? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Mr Happy Date: 13 May 02 - 03:36 PM spellings: UK v US i don't know if i shouldn't start a different thread about this but since there's a lot of references to the topic in this one here goes. an item from 'Folk Orbit' mag.: Important: Please Read New information from the European Commissioners The European Commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications rather than German, the only other possibility considered. As part of the negotiation, however, the British Government has conceded that English spelling has some room for improvement and simplification. A five year phased plan has been accepted for what will be known as "Euroenglish". In the first year "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will reseive this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". not only will this kreate less konfusion, but keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". this will aid ekonomy, making words like "fotograf" twenty persent shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes will be possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e's" in the languag is pointless, and they would go. By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z", and replasing "w" wiz "v", and ze fifz year vil se ozer changes. Ze unesesary "o" kan be droped from vords containing "ou", and similar changes vud, of kors, be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After ze fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis, and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze European drem vil finali kom tru.
Blody hel!
regards mr happy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Bill D Date: 13 May 02 - 04:28 PM Everyone please note ...I have NOT started a thread called "Are Brits prim and stuffy" Why? Because they are NOT all that way, even though many movies, TV programs and joke portray them that way. Is there ANY truth to sterotypes? Probably--there are certain national identity characteristics for any country.....Germans, Americans, Japanese, Swedes, Aussies...all have idiosyncracies which sort of identify them, But even is a smallish country like Englad, there are differences....so in the USA, with 3000 miles between Miami & Seattle, there are wide variations in what we think, do, speak, eat, believe, listen to, celebrate, study, care about and know. It is, as 'spaw says, pretty funny reading yet another attempt to label 250,000,000 people with one simplistic tag. Thing is, is is the 'insular', stupid, thoughtless, obnoxious members of a society that get noticed and stand out in a crowd....and you have yours, just as we have ours.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST,Blues=Life Date: 13 May 02 - 04:43 PM You know, there is harldly anything more arrogant than pre-judging people based on faulty assumptions. What started this whole thread was Keith Dance's comment "As an observer from the UK, I think it would be fair to say that Americans consider themselves the centre of the world. Indeed, this can be seen time and again in posts here. People asking for advice where location matters (i.e. where to find a guitar shop, how to find a map for a certain location etc.) differ. Those from the UK, Australia, wherever, tend to explain where they are. Those from the USA seem to take it as a gien that they live in the USA." It seems like most times I meet someone from another country, this is the attitude I run into. At a trade show in April, a Canadian co-worker did the same old "You don't know anything about Canadian gov't or geography" crap. So we had a little competition, he asked me 5 questions, I did the same. Boy, it's awful being the big dumb barbarian American! I only got 5 right out of 5. He clearly knew more about the US, ahh... is 1 out of 5 good? Doesn't matter, the assumption remained that I got lucky! LOL Finally, to explain our "self-centeredness" in Keith's example, has it not occurred to you where this website originates? If I walk into a store in South Carolina and ask directions to a good music store, the answer (from knowledgable people) will be Hames Music (by the way, an incredible place with great staff), a mere 20 miles away. Why, because the assumption is that I'm looking for local information, since I'm standing in South Carolina when I ask. If I were told about this great little shop in Tokyo, I'd think they were a bit strange. By the same token, if this website originated in London, I would probably emphasize the fact that I was an American in the same type of situation, because otherwise my answer would seem very strange and out of place. A last note; everyone thinks the world revolves, at least partially, around themselves. Why? Because their world does! The trick is to realize that your world can be as big as you want it to be, and can overlap many other "worlds" and cultures if you so choose. That's one of the great joys of music, it gives us a bigger world. Peace, Blues
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Mr Red Date: 13 May 02 - 05:17 PM Americans insular? hmmmmmm So how many old Etonians does it take to change a lightbulb? only one but the rest of the universe has to revolve around him. for the collectors out there - this has been collected as a Mac programmers' joke too - and just as true! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: mack/misophist Date: 13 May 02 - 09:00 PM As I understand it, the reason for the difference between English and American spelling is Noah Webster. He was a spelling reform advocate and the first American dictionary writer. Naturally his dictionary was widely used in American schools. The need for spelling reform, however rests solidly upon the head of one J. Caxton, of London. He is personally responsible for most of the worst spellings. And is it true that Americans are insular? The answer must be a resounding DAMN RIGHT THEY ARE. When the schools don't teach American history, geography, of government very well; how can Americans be expected to know about the rest of the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST,John Gray @ work Date: 13 May 02 - 11:33 PM Catspaw, no, I don't know what an 80 year old woman's genitals but, as you seem to, I'll defer to your greater knowledge in this matter. JG / FME |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: ard mhacha Date: 14 May 02 - 01:52 PM Lonesome EJ, yOU WOULD BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED I YOU |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: ard mhacha Date: 14 May 02 - 02:05 PM lonesome EJ, Sorry the oul trigger finger slipped, As i meant to say you would be pleasantly surprised at the average personS knowledge of the US, all over Ireland. Yes, I must confess to being very interested in US history and I have a lovely copy of the Lewis and Clark book. But as I said previously,I have never met nicer people, than my friends in Penn Ohio and West Virginia. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 14 May 02 - 02:29 PM Dear Spaw... I have concidered thy message, and waited on light on thy concern, and I break the silence reverently to voice that light within, that still small voice, which desires I answer thee, so... oye vey iss meer! Thy Friend and friend (schlamazle to thy schlameezility) Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 14 May 02 - 02:44 PM Thanks, ard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: SharonA Date: 14 May 02 - 04:12 PM Ard Mhacha: Thanks for the compliment about the people of the *great* state of Pennsylvania!! (Your payment for promotional services should arrive shortly.) *G* SharonA, native insular Pennsylvanian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Mr Red Date: 14 May 02 - 04:21 PM DtG look in yer dictionary for fawcet I saw it once as a "wooden tap for a barrel" so yer average Pilgrim Father took barrels of water on the Mayflower, and their water utility was none butt the best! Now I don't imagine the Pilgrim Fathers guzzling Budwieser, whereas we brits were already a long way down that decadent path. So by the time Dr Johnson was lexiconning the world (with a tankard in one hand!) we had perfected the art of gently "tapping barrels" and were no longer resorting to force it! the rest is his story! McGrath of Harlow New York insular? Well maybe a bit peninsular in places. Maybe Pittsburg is Penn. insular too? eh SharonA> The map of Brittain shows, agog! An outline somewhat like a dog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Herga Kitty Date: 14 May 02 - 04:24 PM Insular? No, no, no! I live in England and we're just parochial. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Mr Red Date: 16 May 02 - 10:16 AM Kitty Make that provincial Mr Red who lives on the line from Bristol to the Wash, but is 50 miles north of it by default! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST,Spike Date: 16 May 02 - 11:12 AM Bloody hell mate; the US must be the centRE of the world. Americans manage to produce 50% of the world greenhouse gasses and they only make up 1/24 th of it's population. Nice one Uncle Sam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Celtic Soul Date: 16 May 02 - 11:10 PM I would just like to point out that there have been threads wherein someone from the UK mentions some spot there that I have *no* idea about, and have no clue as to what it is, let alone where it is. Sometimes, it is only in the reading of the responses that you can suss out the "where" of the thing. My point is, it happens both ways. As for the USA being insular, I would just like to point out that it takes us 3-4 days driving nearly non-stop to cross from one end to the other, or from the northernmost point to the southernmost point. Most of us *never* get out of the country. It's expensive, as it involves major airfare and/or a huge time commitment, so, it's really very hard to envision anything else just from others descriptions. We are what we are mainly because, for most of us, it surrounds us for thousands of miles in every direction. What does a fish know of water, until you take it out into the air? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 16 May 02 - 11:17 PM Well, you not so insular British cousins... all day long, my post about Sonar Bangala, golden Bangladesh, once the richest nation in that region, until you reduced it to one of the most impoverished nations on earth, has lain there, with not one of you cosmopolitan English chaps making a comment or likely having a peek at the thread, so what can we assume, after owning and destroying the nation, the name sounded a tad foriegn to you, so you ignored the thread. Well, just an observation, you sent Travellian to ruin the Bangladeshi textile tradition just as he did so much to help bring Ireland into the modern industrial age... so... where are you in touch with the world nieghbors of ours??? Cheersm'dears, Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 17 May 02 - 07:11 AM Gee that got it REAL quite around here fast!!!!! Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: DMcG Date: 17 May 02 - 07:29 AM Ok, fair comment Larry. I admit I hadn't looked at the song - but there again I have only looked at about 10% of the threads anyway. And how do I decide which 10%? Well, the name mostly. So yes, I'll consider myself beaten up (but very lightly!) As for the damage the UK did in the past to places like this - its unfortunately pretty typical behaviour for us. But the one thing you can say about British Rule - its consistant! Ireland (North and South), Bangladesh, Pakistan ... and don't forget Peterloo, the Tolpuddle martyrs or more recently the miner's strikes ... hang on, its that a knock at the door? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Mr Happy Date: 17 May 02 - 07:48 AM there's a well known annual sporting event in us, called 'the world series' however all the participant teams are americans does this example illustrate everyday us mindset? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 17 May 02 - 07:56 AM Well put, DMcG: ... by the by... what did ya think of the song? Cheers, Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: CarolC Date: 17 May 02 - 08:04 AM there's a well known annual sporting event in us, called 'the world series' however all the participant teams are americans
does this example illustrate everyday us mindset? In a P.T. Barnum hucksterism sort of way perhaps (famous US circus guy who was fond of using superlatives, ie: THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH). People in the US often tend to like to think big. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: artbrooks Date: 17 May 02 - 08:08 AM Of course, letting in the Japanese or (heaven forfend) the Cubans might result in the New York Yankees REALLY getting whupped! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: CarolC Date: 17 May 02 - 09:00 AM Heh. I just thought of something. Maybe people here in the US often like to think big because it's easy to feel small in a country the size of this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: DougR Date: 17 May 02 - 11:35 PM A legitimate complaint, I think. When one is asking a question relating to something like, "Where can you buy a good guitar?" It certainly would be helpful to identify the paremiters of where you are willing to shop. I think the question, though, speaks more to the bias so many people have for the U. S. (I'm not referring to those who live here ...God knows there are ample people who live here that delight in denigrating our country). There may be, on the Mudcat, a tendency to reply to questions with U. S. answers because the Mudcat is based in the U. S. Does it really matter though? If someone replies to a question and the reply relates to a location in the U. S., those in the U. S. that are interested will take note of it. The next post, offering an answer, however, may be from Australia, and those there will ...oh well, you know what I mean. DougR DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST Date: 18 May 02 - 09:04 AM I disagree with ard mhaca's claim that many people in Ireland are knowledgeable about the US. The Irish, like the British, are obsessed with US pop culture (love or hate it), and their knowledge of the US is limited to knowledge of Anglo dominated pop culture, and inconsistent reporting on US politics (particularly as it relates to their own countries). Reporting by legitimate news sources in Britain are considerably more haughty towards Americans than are their Irish counterparts though. I find it interesting to note that one of the major Irish music websites (can't remember which one off-hand right now, but I'll check my bookmarked sites and get back to you with which one) describes Mudcat as enviably good BRITISH folk music website. Not an American (or even British) blues music site, nor a website which covers the myriad of non-British folk musics of North America or any other continent. To me, that suggests Mudcat is often perceived by those with an interest in non-Anglo folk music as being not only Anglocentric, but that the website's purpose is to serve as a website for traditional and contemporary Anglo and Anglo American folk music. In my experience here, not nearly as many Americans users view the forum as having a British Anglocentric emphasis, as British users view the forum as US-centric. Considering that the forum is a US folk music forum, I find the complaints by British and Irish contributors that the Americans are insular to be downright rude and annoying. While it is clear that the "international" aspect of the forum is really limited to a large number of British users and a small handful of Irish users, it does seem to me that these sorts of threads are just plain ole British begrudgers rearing their ugly heads to try and start anti-American slanging matches. In my experience, the British cyber-folk, both here and in the Usenet groups, have more than a few "issues" (as we say in the States) with Americans and the stereotypes of them they love to hate. Some are quite "in yer face" about their irrational hatred of "Americans" when they think they can get away with it. You want to see insular? Spend a month reading uk.music.folk!
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Gareth Date: 18 May 02 - 09:20 AM Hmmmm ! From the UK - Does anybody remember the newspaper headline " Storms in Channel - Continent Isolated" Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST,P.S. From Guest Just Above Date: 18 May 02 - 09:26 AM P.S. GUEST, Keith Dance originated this thread by claiming to be a member with a crumbed cookie, by proclaiming in most inflammatory terms: "As an observer from the UK, I think it would be fair to say that Americans consider themselves the centre of the world." Nothing inflammatory about that statement, eh? Odd that no one has mentioned the "T" word here. Considering that GUEST Keith Dance has not contributed anything to this thread since it's initial post, it seems rather obvious this person is a classic troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 18 May 02 - 10:15 AM Seems odd for a certain annonimous pot to be calling a certain named kettle names! No insult intended Guest, but I find it hard to take serriously someone with a bag over their head. Cheers, The real life Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST Date: 18 May 02 - 10:19 AM Your inability to take the posts at face value, rather than fixating on non-existing images is your problem Larry. Being anonymous isn't synonymous with being a troll, and there are plenty of excellent contributions from anonymous posters in Mudcat to prove you both paranoid and wrong. The point is, and remains, that you have been hoodwinked by an anonymous troll, but because of your prejudices against blank "From" lines, you weren't able to suss out the troll in your midst trying to start an anti-American flame war in a US folk music forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: InOBU Date: 18 May 02 - 10:26 AM What is your world like, Guest... I can see you walking down the street, the opposit way against traffic to make sure you are not kidnapped, your dark glasses and collar turned up... your dark glasses just above your high turtle neck collar, as you go to your local folk club, where you slide into the corner dark corner booth, facing the door, where you can watch for the dreaded folk asassins, looking for the few free thinkers, whos thoughts are so precious that if we knew their true identity they would not be safe to walk amongs us... Hey! I think I saw a film about you the other day, a beautiful mind! No offence ol' faceless cum... Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: Guest! Date: 18 May 02 - 10:40 AM I a worried about the identity theift going on about this place, posting under my mudcat name... and claiming to be annonimous. I mean really, give me a break, for example, when I go to hear the greatest band in the world, Sorcha Dorcha, I expect that band to show up... not just a band with the same name! Cheers, Guest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Are Americans 'insular'? From: GUEST Date: 18 May 02 - 10:44 AM Nice trolling yourself there InOBU, but I'm not taking your bait. Like I said, the troll here is the originator of the thread. But because the person put a name in the "From" line, they cleverly tip-toed around the Mudcat default prejudice against "anonymous" guests trolling the members by starting threads and not filling in the "From" line. This sort of trolling has been going on for quite awhile now (ie the troll posts as guest, but puts something in the "From" line). I'm even going to make a guess that the same person started this thread who has been refreshing the Celtic Music/Bulmer thread for the past week or so. Someone who is spoiling for a flamewar. The originator of this thread even told you what they were doing--they started out their post with: "I know that some of you might consider this an 'anti American' flame, especially because I'm posting as a Guest. It isn't, and I only post as a guest because the sysop here has disabled cookies." So why is it that all the Mudcat members who are so good at sussing out trolls, didn't see that one coming from an American mile away? Which proves my point about how blinkered the belief is among the membership that only posters who leave the "From" line blank are trolls in this forum. Get a clue, Larry. Wise up and recognize the real enemy when they are in your midst. This reactionary stance of members, wherein they get a warm and fuzzy safe feeling when they see the "From" line filled in, and a hostile and contentious feeling when it is left empty, has blinded the users of this forum for far too long. Take each post at face value, and you really don't have a problem. Except when you take the posts of your fellow members who are jerks at face value, of course. Then you can't stay in your cozy, insular "member vs guest/us vs them" mentalite. |