If you do like ballads...

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 26 May 19 - 05:30 AM

On the topic of what I know something about, I will add theory of music to the list. Therefore, when I do get round to reading Bronson, I guess I shall stand a better chance of following his discussion of modes and so on than some other posters. Depends how complicated it is.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 26 May 19 - 05:43 AM

Lastly for now, as I have stuff to do, Child 31.

There is already a Mudcat thread for that particular Child number. I would suggest that that is the place for further discussion of that topic in detail? (Though discussion of the different uses of 'cantefable' might be relevant here, depending on how far you see it as linked to learning about ballads).

In addition, JHW kindly provided a link near the top of this page to a web site on Child. I've been looking at what it has to say on Child 31 and also at the actual Child 31. <> Well worth a look.

Naturally, the question of whether the 'Hitch' piece should be regarded as an example of Child 31 is one upon which 'the authorities' who have discussed folk music over the last 100 years have disagreed.

My own thinking, and yes, I have only read a few sections and a couple of other pieces by Child, is that he would probably have wanted to consign the song copied and pasted above to the dunghill.

My view is that, if Child compared it with, say, the treatment of a somewhat similar theme by Chaucer, in the Wife of Bath's tale, he would conclude that Chaucer has a much more interesting story. And I'm guessing Child might agree.

I'm not saying that it isn't amusing, or likeable, just that it doesn't go much beyond that for me. But probably this ought to be on the thread about Child 31.

Amused to note the objection to using a dictionary: excellent source if one wanted to make a judgement about older and new fangled uses of a term as it cites examples from the past. In my view, using the term 'cantefable' to refer to any mixture of prose and verse could be seen as robbing the term of some of its specificity.

Thank you for reading.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 26 May 19 - 06:14 AM

Here is the link, it didn't work before.

http://bluegrassmessengers.com/31-the-marriage-of-sir-gawain.aspx

Hope you enjoy reading!

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 May 19 - 07:50 AM

Richie M regular on Mudcat

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 May 19 - 07:51 AM

Mudcat contributed a lot to website.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 26 May 19 - 08:56 AM

Gotcha Steve! Yes Mudcat is off and on. It is a great site. So much work must have gone into it!

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 May 19 - 10:15 AM

I don’t believe it to be the job of anybody, member or guest, to direct where a discussion should take place – the question of cante-fables was raised and challenged here, as far as I’m concerned, an ideal place to deal with it
'Cante Fable
Funk and Wagnall’s ‘Standard Dictionary of Folklore’ gives versions of ‘Little Musgrave’, ‘Maid Freed from the Gallows, ‘Our Goodman’, Rock Island Line’ and ‘Frankie and Albert’ as examples of the genre – good enough for me.   

"Apparently on the basis that one feels disagreement with their ideas"        
No-one here is suggesting difference of opinion is wrong - it is the arrogant and often insulting terms in which those differences are expressed that cause the problems
Perhaps we can leave it there eh ?
Jim

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 May 19 - 01:19 PM

Orif not - report me for it
I'm getting tired of open dishonesty being used as a firm of intimidation
If it continues, I will report those responsible
How dare you people sabotage a good thread in this manner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Jeri
Date: 26 May 19 - 03:40 PM

I think the fight in this thread started here. When you look at who picks fights with people, it's you.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 May 19 - 04:50 PM

It would be far better to debate the 'cantefable' definition with what Funk and Wagnall actually define it as. Versions of 'Little Musgrave' as a cantefable? Haven't seen any of these. Perhaps Richie can enlighten us, or better still F&W must surely give references we can look at.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 26 May 19 - 05:18 PM

I don't think I had met the term "cante fable" anywhere before I met it in one or other thread here. But I have been understanding it as explained above: a tale which incorporates short snatches of song. How widely has it been used for specimens with different proportions, such as "The Half Hitch" which is the other way round?

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 May 19 - 06:02 PM

Just as an aside I once recorded a version of Lord Bateman in the 60s from a lady who learnt it from her father. She sang about half of the verses but those she couldn't remember she recited in prose, so accurately that we were able to piece together the full ballad. The effect of her performance on that day was something similar to a cantefable, but even then I knew what a cantefable was (thanks to EFDSS Journals), and didn't consider for one moment that this could have been a cantefable.

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 19 - 02:47 AM

The modern cantefable

We're going on a bear humt

:D

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Walter Raleigh
Date: 27 May 19 - 04:06 AM

At last something enjoyable

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Walter Raleigh
Date: 27 May 19 - 04:09 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=3EoI-6lQFIE
Plot
Man has heart broken, tries to problem by pleasing woman, ending mysterious.
Cantefable

Subject: RE: If you do like ballads...
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 27 May 19 - 10:57 AM

Nothing to see here

Ironically, Jim's first contribution to this thread was that rare thing; agreeable.

Mind you, at that point, nobody had dared to question his self styled guru status.

---

That's enough. Try again another time, without the acrimony.
-Joe Offer-