How many mudcatters are teachers?

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Scoville
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 11:31 AM

I've taught First Day [Sunday] school and music lessons. I think I'm probably too much of a disciplinarian for kindergarteners but they don't seem to be afraid of me yet so I guess I haven't scarred them too badly. I do better teaching Appalachian dulcimer to adults, who don't need to be told not eat chalk.

My BA is in history so it looks like I should have gone into teaching but I'm an absolutely lousy "people" person. I'm currently in library school but planning to study archiving instead of going into school or reference librarianship (too much like teaching!).

I respect those of you who can do it, but I can't. I'd frankly rather chew off my own leg. The district where I live is very restrictive about what is taught and how it is taught, and anything I like well enough to want to teach would be spoiled by the beaurecracy. Awful.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: bbc
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:15 PM

Reply to Lizzie from 6-6-06 at 8:25 am

Hi, Lizzie,

Your question is a valid one &, obviously, from the heart. I am a teacher & I have raised 2 sons, so I can see both sides. I am a school librarian at a small, rural grade 3-5 elementary school in New York state. I have students w/ ADD, Asperger's, & many other conditions. Sometimes they do make it tough to teach the group they're in, but I love just about all of them. I think the 1st answer to your question, unfortunately, is that people need jobs to support their lives &, for some, teaching is just that--a job. I had an undergrad degree in British Lit & my master's in Library Science when I found myself, unexpectedly, needing to support myself, as well as my 2 & 5 year old sons. It seemed that working as a school librarian would maximize my salary, my benefits, & my time w/ my kids. I also happened to be qualified for the job. I had been, happily, a full-time homemaker for the previous 9 years. So, for me, it started as a job. I have now been an educator for 12 years--8 at my current location. Through these years, somehow, I have been transformed into a teacher. My job has become a vocation for me. I love my students & have the vision that I can help them to become happy, successful adults. I am aware that the things I do, for good or ill, will have an effect on them & it is my daily desire that it be a good effect! I think & plan how to teach them well; I go for various training sessions outside of school hours, to better understand & meet the needs of my students. Yes, there *are* uncaring, undertrained teachers & that's awful, when the "product" is the future of our world. We each do our part. I hope my small part is positive. Best to you in teaching your children. I have a close friend who very successfully home-schooled all 6 of her children--at least one through high school. He's done great in college, too. I respect your love & dedication to your kids.

best,

Barbara

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: dulcimer42
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 11:09 PM

I'm a retired Kindergarten teacher. And "my kids" learned their share of folk music.... and loved it. Parents were amazed at how many verses of those songs their 5 year old kids could sing. They could sing Rattlin' Bog and keep track of those verses better than I !!!   Then I taught Kindermusik to preschoolers for a couple of years.... and the Kindermusik Program is based on traditional music from around the world.   Now I'm totally retired and belong to our local folk music society and spend my time teaching hammered dulcimer, playing that and Celtic harp and other assorted instruments. I just teach my grandkids now.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 02:56 AM

I am a librarian, but when in our department (unicersity) additional teachers were needed I helped out for 15 years teaching Oriental propaedeutics and writing Arabic.
I also taught occasionally American soldiers how to handle German weapons (oh those sunny days on the range!) and firefighters in physics and mathematics they needed for theit work.
Now I am teaching drummers how to read notes and how to play them. In one marching band they all are adult, in another they are 10 to 12 years old. Teaching can be real fun.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 03:11 AM

I'm a retired primary school teacher, and, when I first started going to folkclubs - in the 60s - they seemed to be mainly inhabited by teachers and social workers. In the last school I taught, there was a fellow teacher who was a fabulous tin whistle player, and she taught tin whistle to a group of children at lunchtimes; but strangely, she hated folk clubs and refused to go anywhere near them!

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Ruston Hornsby
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 03:40 AM

I used to go to a folk club in the fishing port that I once worked in, and it was full of school teachers singing songs about the fishing. Down the road was another pub full of old fisherman - usually singing Country and Western. I always wondered if there was a bar somewhere in the Mid-West United States full of cowboys and truck drivers singing songs about being school teachers in the UK.......

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: vectis
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 02:35 PM

I am one of the few lucky ones that have escaped into 6th form and it has re invigorated me. A lot of folkies seem to be teachers in England, one of the reasons the summer holidays have three successful week-long festivals I reckon.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:17 PM

Well said Fibula. I teach law at Christchurch and South Bank (as well as having a practice). Largely AUT quislings (there were some NATFHE Uncle Toms and Topsys) have now driven UCU to roll over and play spaniel to the vice chancellors. A fine reward for the mainly solid NATFHE members. Empty the bottle, and turn it into a Molotov cocktail.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 05:31 PM

I taught for a number of years, and know quite a number of teachers, Lizzie--they tend to be happy to see parents like you leave the system--the reasons for it are evident in your post--

You think that they are lazy, uncaring, and uninterested in their kids. You also think that the answers to all the problems in education are simple, and the that the reason that they haven't been solved is that the teachers are all too stupid and too stubborn to do what is so obvious to you.

You also think that it is the teachers responsibility to solve every problem related to the education of your children, and at the same time, that teachers have no right or business telling your children what they can and cannot do. I can assure you that they are happy to be rid of you--

At the same time though, they are sorry to lose your children, because they really do care about them, and they are disturbed by the very real possibility that, rather than giving them an education, you are simply indoctrinating them with all of your prejudices--

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:13 AM

Well roared, lion - that is one of the causes why I always preferred to teach adults (my mother wanted to see me as a college techer - beware!). No bloody parents to obstruct your efforts, and the adults are responsible for their work themselves.
I always started with high demands; when the stupid, the idle, and the lazy had left the lessons, I lowered them, and it was real fun to work with the enquiring and assiduous. For them I cared a lot, and I got many thanks.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

Until I got to high school, almost everything I learned, I learned from my parents, not because my teachers didn't care or were incompetent (some were, some weren't, same as with any profession) but because they had too many kids in their classes and had their hands full trying to keep order.

I think most people go into teaching wanting to make a positive impact and then get bogged down in the lack of funding, politics, overcrowded classrooms, and tug-of-war between school staff and parents. The only reason I'd ask, "Why do you want to teach?" is if I meant, "Why would you want to deal with that?". I sure don't.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 08:01 PM

I love, love, love my students- they are such bright, diverse, shining individuals. I am also a single mom of 2, one with Asperger Syndrome, and they both have gone through the system with few scars and their self-esteem intact. I know I'm lucky- blessed- to be in an exemplary school system that really does care about its children, but I also have taken the time as a parent to advocate for my kids and their particular needs. It takes a village, Lizzie- not just the teachers, many of whom are struggling parents, homeowners, folks like you and me.
Trying to organize all the teachers to subvert the system is a lot like herding cats. They are mostly doing their best, just doing their job, faced with the kids and the ridiculous national test requirements and the huge load of paperwork and the outrageous actions by idiot state officials- don't get me started on THAT front- and the idea that we could all just shout loudly with a united voice is a good thought, but one that takes more than words.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:15 PM

All of them. They've all taught me lots of stuff.
I got the right answer. What do I win?          Tw

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:23 AM

They are not in the real world of business that's for sure. Insular is the word.

Like many who work (or in my case worked) in Further Education I was in the so-called real world of business for many years and I also worked in industry whilst working as a teacher. Many do.

The so-called real world would grind to a halt if it had to put up with one-tenth of the crap that the average teacher puts up with from unruly students whose parents, often from the "real world" of business couldn´t be bothered to bring up their children properly. It would grind to a halt if it had the bureaucracy from those who think they know better. It would grind to a halt if it was constantly starved of resources, like teachers are and had to fight for every penny and scrap of photocopying paper. And if the average business person worked the concentrated hours of a primary school teacher then they would soon pack it in or be demanding bigger salaries.

Next time you pass a golf course at mid-week look at the cars outside and ask "teachers" or "the real world of business". Next time you pass a posh restaurant that is full at lunchtime ask yourself "teachers" or the "real world of business". How many teachers have expense accounts, company cars, golf club memberships paid for by the firm?

Teaching IS the real world.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:58 AM

>>>From: M.Ted - PM Date: 08 Jun 06 - 05:31 PM

I taught for a number of years, and know quite a number of teachers, Lizzie--they tend to be happy to see parents like you leave the system--the reasons for it are evident in your post--You think that they are lazy, uncaring, and uninterested in their kids. You also think that the answers to all the problems in education are simple, and the that the reason that they haven't been solved is that the teachers are all too stupid and too stubborn to do what is so obvious to you.--You also think that it is the teachers responsibility to solve every problem related to the education of your children, and at the same time, that teachers have no right or business telling your children what they can and cannot do. I can assure you that they are happy to be rid of you--At the same time though, they are sorry to lose your children, because they really do care about them, and they are disturbed by the very real possibility that, rather than giving them an education, you are simply indoctrinating them with all of your prejudices--<<<

Far from being the parents from hell, my husband and I were nothing but supportive of good teachers. Even with the bad ones we, wrongly with hindsight, kept quiet. My children were apparently always 'a pleasure to teach.'

I'd suggest you take the time to read my post again. Most of what you have quoted is not what I said at all. It is what YOU have said. And far from being 'indoctrinated' by us, our children are now more free than they have ever been, to learn whatever they so choose. They both read masses of books, taking in, along the way, hundreds of ideas, opinions and outlooks from all sorts of people. They will talk easily and intelligently to anyone, of any age, any background, any colour. They put no labels upon any person.

And as far teachers being sorry to lose my children whom they 'cared' for so much...No, that is totally and utterly wrong! My daughter was falling apart in front of their eyes, yet all they could do was put even more pressure on her, to achieve, to belong to after-school clubs, to take test after test...but NEVER once was she asked if she was OK, never was she *asked* anything at all. But she was dictated to, over and over.

And as for these *pathetic* words:

>>>From: Wilfried Schaum - PM Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:13 AM

Well roared, lion - that is one of the causes why I always preferred to teach adults (my mother wanted to see me as a college techer - beware!). No bloody parents to obstruct your efforts, and the adults are responsible for their work themselves. I always started with high demands; when the stupid, the idle, and the lazy had left the lessons, I lowered them, and it was real fun to work with the enquiring and assiduous. For them I cared a lot, and I got many thanks.<<<

...all I can say is Thank God, that this person chose never to teach children. How many children would have had their lives blighted by that horrendous outlook? How DARE he assume that any child is 'stupid' and therefore not worth teaching? (!!!) How dare he fail to see that the 'lazy' or 'idle' child has merely switched off through utter boredom or because they are unable to cope with learning in a way which is totally alien to them, about a subject in which they may have no interest whatsoever, taught to them by someone who may also have no interest in *them* whatsoever? (!!!)

How *DARE* he assume that he is more intelligent than others, purely because he calls himself a teacher! Well....I'll tell you what a true teacher is. It is someone who cares deeply about children, not just about getting them through exams and thus giving their school a 'glowing' end of year report, but about the WHOLE child! It is about that one person who can see that the 'stupid' child is anything but that. It is about that one person who knows how to reach out, how to make anything interesting, how to feel what the child is feeling, to empathise with them, get inside their heads and try to free them. It is about a person who does not criticise, unless it is totally constructive and who encourages at every turn. It is about someone who desperately wants all of their children to reach the best of their ability.

But..can ONE teacher do that for 30 or so children at once? Of course not. It is unfair on the teacher and the child. The National Curriculum will not let good teachers teach as they want to. No longer can they digress from one particular subject and follow down many side roads, to come to the same destination, along the way perhaps lighting up many other things for a child too.

I have met a *few* wonderful, natural teachers in my life. They say you always remember the good ones. How I wish that I had met many, many more.

Oh...and 'Wilfried' before you decide to label a child 'STUPID' again, I'd suggest you read John Gatto's 'Dumbing Us Down', Ronald D. Davis 'The Gift Of Dyslexia' and take a look at the links below. (I'm afraid that I cannot activate them today, as the 'blue clicky' link isn't working, but hopefully you will take the trouble to visit these sites.)

They are about Helen Keller. A young child whom everyone had given up on, no doubt you'd have labelled her 'stupid' 'lazy' 'idle' and many more things besides, and have been glad to have been rid of her. However, good fortune...or perhaps something far greater, joined her in life with Anne Sullivan, a truly wondrous natural teacher, who, because of the way she had been treated, and the things that had happened to her in life, was determined that Helen would not spend her life 'locked away' inside her own black hole.

And..with the right teacher, utter MAGIC took place, a BRILLIANT mind was unleashed upon an unsuspecting and disbelieving world. Watch the videos of Helen 'talking' to Annie and you may even be moved to tears!

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Helen_Keller

http://www.afb.org/braillebug/hkgallery.asp?tpid=3

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart." Helen Keller

"An education without a heart is no education at all" Aristotle

"Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire" W.B. Yeats

There are many more words to inspire here:

http://drwilliampmartin.tripod.com/bigedlist.htm

And this is the Freedom In Education site, run by three Home Educated young people, now beyong school age. Intelligent, witty, industrious, kind, interesting...I could go on, but reading it will enlighten you far more:

http://www.freedom-in-education.co.uk/

Thanks to Barbara, by the way, for her kind post above. It was much appreciated Barbara. And finally, coming from a dyslexic family, my father, brother and now my son, I will leave you with these words:

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn - Alvin Toffler

Lizzie :0) (A BLOODY parent!)

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:37 AM

Lizzie - you don't seem to have read my post properly. Neverwhere I told that I have taught children; I taught adults at university. at the fire department and in the army. Doesn't that make a great difference?

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: bbc
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 10:46 AM

I can see the truth in all of the above posts. Teaching tends to be a misunderstood & under-appreciated profession, at least in the U.S. In the public schools, we are required to teach all the children who live in our area, regardless of their behavior, their ability to speak English, etc. Many times, as I'm trying to get attention from my higher needs students, I sigh on behalf of those who are quietly waiting for the opportunity to learn. Most educators would love to be able to work one-on-one w/ our students, to best meet individual needs & learning styles. Unfortunately, that is seldom possible. We deal with hectic schedules, administrators who may throw us to the wolves rather than check to see if parental criticism is justified, budget constraints that frequently make it easier to just spend our own money on our students, state standards & tests that often seem out-of-step with reality in the classroom. Every time I hear someone say that teachers work 6-hour days, 10 months a year, I laugh. I am at school, most days, approximately an hour before contract time & 1-2 hours after contract time. Most of my contract hours are spent in direct instruction; that's the only way I can keep up with my work. Various kinds of training to improve my teaching skills come out of my evening hours. At home, I do my lesson planning, grade papers, do most of the ordering for the next year, etc. During the summer, I make plans for the next year's program.

All of that being said, we each, to some degree, choose our careers. I chose to be a teacher. Having made that choice, it is my goal to do my job to the best of my ability. I see those students--the ones who are easy to teach & the ones who aren't, the ones who are eager & the ones who couldn't care less, the ones who like me & my program & the ones who don't, the ones I like & the very few who I can't seem to--as the future of our world & they deserve my best. I chose them, just as I chose to be a parent; they didn't choose me. Each job has its value, but not all directly influence the future of the world for good or ill as teaching does. If we do this job just as a way to meet expenses, we do the world a disservice.

Respectfully,

Barbara

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 10:50 AM

The people in the above argument need to go to www.judydomenybowen.com and get a copy of her two albums for teachers---especially "Teacher Therapy" (the first one). Then play the last song. After that play the rest of the album. If one pokes a bit of fun at his or her profession, it doesn't mean that they are dissatisfied with or critical of that profession. The last song on the album is a true story and encapsulates the feelings of a truely dedicated teacher.

Subject: RE: How many mudcatters are teachers?
From: bbc
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 06:13 PM

I have that cd, Jim. Yup, "Brandon Moved Away" is a special song. I've had students like that. Thanks for bringing it up.

best,

bbc